524 replies to this topic

[Maehdros]

So PvP it about taking gold from a weakly geared person, or just to simply antagonize them.  Got it 

I don't care what someone is wearing when it comes to gold hitting. Not my problem if they have a weak set of gear on( epics etc) I see a nice chunk of gold, I swing and hope for some loot.


If someone wears a weak setup, that's their problem, not mine:)

[Kedyn]

The team (including myself) are currently looking through this thread and taking notes and we're going to discuss all the issues raised so far. From what I've read so far the main issues of contention appear to be around the bounty board but we'll be sure to look at all the comments and feedback.

 

In a way, yes Hoof. Most of the discussion is around the bounty board, but because you're making the biggest change to that aspect of the game. 

 

I think the Leagues/Seasons piece of it is being somewhat overlooked, but only because the bounty board is the bigger issue. In my opinion, and based on what has been explained by HCS, this is just another copy of the original PVP ladder, but split into leagues. In a little while, most PVPers will be in separate leagues than most levelers, so there won't be as many issues with "PVPers" "bullying" (hitting) "levelers". However, the issue I see with it is that it didn't work once. What's going to make the difference a second time around? I just don't want this to be a continual re-hash by making the same mistakes multiple times. 

 

Personally, in the end, I'd like to see the bounty board still be a possible place for punishment, but as long as you don't get "double" punishment. There is no reason why you would want to "promote" PVP by allowing someone who wants a few shinies, or is hitting another player, to be able to be auto-bountied and also possibly be re-bountied after being auto.

 

Please take some additional time if needed when making the decisions and drafting what you guys want to do. This can have a huge impact on many different players who have different styles of play away from the normal "leveler" type of player. I'm afraid that too drastic a change, you'll lose many of them. I know many of the players I talk to on a daily/weekly basis are barely holding onto the game now. If you force players away, then those players take players with them, thus leaving you with a much smaller player base. My guess would be mostly levelers if you keep the suggestions as is, which still may be the majority, but I would fear the loss may be insurmountable by FS.  

[Removed20081]

In regards again to the bounty board, can HCS explain why they think their current system is flawed? Reasons that don't revolve around player accusations of bullying or fear of appearing on it because they've had a few bad experiences with it (usually by them acting like a donkey with known smashers)?

 

Does HCS even realize how unique and brilliant the current bounty system is? I'll say again, I find the system pretty ingenius, and trust me, I've been on both ends as hunter and hunted many times.

 

It really is great fun, the thrill of knowing you may lose 5 for misbehaving (stealing gold or random smashing), or defending your guildmates, it keeps the game interesting, it adds a bit of danger play to fallensword, I love it, and although I may be a vocal minority, I will speak up and defend a system I feel there's no issue with. 

 

On the issue of the vocal minority accusations, the people screaming not to change it because 10 or so seasoned PvPers have pointed out major flaws they feel will come along with it, are funnily enough, the same 4 or 5 screaming that we're bullyish and deserve a system that we love slaughtered because they don't like losing levels for their taunts and trolling, take from that what you will...

[shindrak]

For me anything new is ok

[Spider0007]

Its rather difficult to understand some of the decisions  you are wanting/willing to make to the pvp system and the bounty board without some explaination as to the "why".

But in regards to your bounty board suggestion, the reason players are stopping at 9 is so everyone who is hitting can have a chance to finish their attacks and reduce the XP loss to Zero. This being the how the game works and what is necessary for players/guilds to drop a target the full 5 levels.

If you want to stop that type of activity then ok. It seems to me that you are reducing the amount of XP loss on BB though. Making all attacks 50 stam seems strange as well. We've always had the right/ability to determine the amount of stam used for every pvp attack. Sometimes I 99 stam someone lol.

Also, I don't quite understand why you want to make who gets the bounty reward random based on the number of hits. There are so many other aspects of this game that are random and PvP doesn't need anymore randomness applied to it. Winning a bounty requires skill, patience, time, and some knowledge of PvP. Winning a bounty reward for hitting someone 1 time seems silly to me. But hey what do I know, I've only cleared over 3500 bounties in my time.

 

As for the new pvp system, I think its flawed in regards to not having some type of level ranges. You tried not having level ranges before and it was truly an epic failure. Learn from your past mistakes. Please.

Edited by Spider0007, 18 June 2015 - 12:48.

[hades8840]

Electric Light Orchestra havent listened to them in years

[lapdragon]

there are so many posts i love just ran out of "likes"!!  our guild is also made up of LEVELERs n PvPers plus TITAN hunters composers,  Our levelers know they have our PvPers to protect them if they are getting regularly hit....we encourage them to hit back, but they may not like to waste leveling stam on PvP.  it is their right and we that dont mind using EXP to DISCOURAGE said player being hit, use it on the attacker who is posted by our leveler on the BB.  it is not bullying or anything else but a discouragement from hitting our guildie.  I do not want the ability to DISCOURAGE someone from hitting my guildmate, hence 10x100 stam, with a few other guildmates, on the BB.  It works.  PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THAT AWAY, PLEASE. (like smacking the hand that is trying to take too many cookies from the cookie jar) I too have lost levels many MANY times with this.....it is a chance that i as a Pvp/LEVELER am willing to take.  i DO like the addition of random postings by game on the BB...could be fun....

 

the new proposed PVP system would be AMAZING IF.......there were brackets like proposed::  levels 1-1000, 1001-2000, 2001-3000 etc.  seems MUCH fairer IMHO.  for simple reason that first off NEW PLAYERS will NOT be discouraged from playing because they are hit by high level players that they have no chance of beating.  PERIOD.  and those of us who really are not into leveling alot can take our time getting to another bracket.  Im sure many of us do not want to be forced to level up just to be able to compete with EOC.  im not crying about this, but in RL, there are many different leagues of athletic teams, not just the olympics, so we can enjoy our SPORT with out having to train day in day out (leveling) to reach that status.  I hope im making sense   

 

I enjoy this game very much because of all the different aspects of it...i have worked for ALL my medals and do not want to have them taken away, (crying a bit here, but i was one of the first 25 players to get my SMASHER medal for actually winning 100 hits on those in my RANGE, then it was changed, to BB hits, which, in a way took away the authentic value of it)

 

im PLEASED that the HCS are going to be reading all of these, put on your glasses n have POTS of coffee/tea by your side, took me a while to do it, lol!!!  Good luck and im really hoping that this will be an improvement!!!!!!  XO XOXO xo xo 

[samy6671]

yghorbeviahn, on 17 Jun 2015 - 15:31, said:

9 - The Bounty Medal, Smasher Medal and Dominance Medal will suffer any change?

 

The Bounty and Smasher Medal will remain in the game, however the Dominance medal will be changed to a Legacy medal and will no longer be obtainable (it will show in a 'Legacy Medals' section on the profile).

 

ITS COMPLETLY UNFAIR IF DOMINANCE MEDAL WILL BE REMOVED . WHAT ABOUT THE PLAYERS WHO WRK HARD TOGET THOSE MEDALS FROM THE PREVIOUS PVP ASPECT OF THE GAME :< 

[lapdragon]

oops double posting

Edited by lapdragon, 18 June 2015 - 13:18.

[Belaric]

I'm not sure using the argument that new players will be discouraged by being hit by EOC'ers in an open bracket holds much water, when being hit by a level 900 against whom they have no chance will be equally discouraging. Or even level 500, against whom a entry level player (100 is the assumption) to the season will have little/no chance. Narrowing the bands enough to keep everyone in the band competitive with each other runs the danger of having quiet bands where the game is more thinly populated, and of having players who do not want to participate in the seasons targeted anyway for whatever meagre rating gain can be had, because there aren't many alternatives. I think that may not be very popular as an outcome either. And then folk would ask for an opt out, and then we are back to the dead ladder situation we have now. Possibly. 

 

Also with three brackets (or however many) comes three (or however many) sets of rewards. This might be ok, or it may flood whatever market for these rewards is created.

 

The design as presented by HCS is the simplest. The easiest to code, too, I would imagine. I think they are looking for a simple, elegant solution, and one which would transfer to the mobile interface easily too. Our suggestions are generally adding wrinkles and complexity, and nothing wrong with that, just making an observation. 

 

Did the original open ladder, which was based on rating, operate on an ELO mechanism, or some other? I think if it did operate on an ELO system then using it as a point of comparison to the current proposal is appropriate, as that ladder was switched to brackets. HCS can look back and examine their reasons why. If the original open ladder rating exchanges were not ELO based, then we are not quite looking at apples to apples there.

[lapdragon]

Im not sure how you see your guildie hitting mine repeatedly till my guidie posts them on BB so we can hit them back as bullying.  as it has been pointed out....the FIRST attacker had to attack FIRST.  so who is bully here? us for standing up for our guildie, or the person hitting first?  I wont start a fight then cry that i got beat....i know full well that if i attack someone no matter the reason, i risk going to the BB and possibly lose 5 levels, it is my choice.  I speed in my car, cop pulls me over n tickets me, is he the bully?? no, it was the choice i made to speed, and it was his right to give me a ticket.  i do not cry.

[yotwehc]

That's too bad. The one aspect that can be the most harmful is going to be left intact. Way to back down from the most vocal. The power guilds keep the powah.

[Windbattle]

since when does leveling make you a better pvp'r...i can say it doesnt...ask countless people 3-4x my level and higher occasionally...i can clear and defend quite easily...why should higher lvls=dominance on these "leagues"?...

i suggest 3 ladders or brackets..100-999,1000-1999,2000+...these are semi "fair" and a reasonable compromise...

winbattle-the fact you hide from me on bb says it all...you have asked hcs to make me stop hitting because youre too afraid to defend your guildmates...even lost mates over this...you truly think youre a better pvp'r thn me? just cuz youre eoc?....ill play this new system...if only to get my shots at you...you have talked trash here on the forums and in pm's over the years whle hiding behind those levels you worked for..
claiming to be better thn me but never stepping up...and im sure this will be removed but fact is they cany stop me from smashing my way to yyou in these leagues...see ya soon pal

hoof,grim,zorg...im sorry but you allow him to talk down to me but when i say something im too "aggresive"...

many people have expressed disgust for this system..

i propose simple chsnges to make it semi "fair"...eoc has advantage in every other aspect of the game...dontt ruin pvp and give them the advantage there too...

 

Personallly attacking me shows how low of character you have become. Fact: You have never beat me in pvp and you probably never will. That you smashed brand new players I was trying to mentor in the game doesn't mean your a good pvper. It means your an opportunist. 

 

Is this the kind of feedback the cows were looking for? LOL You have derailed this thread long enough. I call for a suspension of your forum privileges until further notice. Cows had to warn you several times yesterday for derailing stuff and removed posts. You think that would have been a clue that your going to far.

 

The ironic thing is that you have a few good points in possible middle ground. but your approach is so wild eyed that your probably going to be over looked

Edited by Windbattle, 18 June 2015 - 14:40.

[duktayp]

[Windbattle]

From my point of view, what's different? I still don't know if I like or don't like this new system... but, what's different? Old system, I get pvp'd, they get soft cleared. New system? I get Pvp'd, They get soft cleared. You can still smash either way...

 

Actually in the new system, all pvp hits will be 50 stam and that will be the same as a smash with the current 100 stam hits. no soft clears will exist anymore. Also, Hoof changed his stance from 1 hit bounties to 10 hit bounties again. so basically its going to cost less stamina to take 5 levels now?

 

I can't BELIEVE people are saying the current BB system is GOOD. If that were true, why is there 0-5 bounties at most on the BB? Is it because people are so efficient at clearing bounties that they get taken off faster than placed? I doubt that very much.

 

The reason the BB isn't too active these days is that people are not posting bounties. Why are people not posting bounties? for one, retaliation reasons. Usually that encourages pvpers to continue to hit their target cause now it cost them something to pvp them. Secondly, the cost / FSP spent to post someone would only take 5 if they someone arranged a delevel party (which most people don't have the means to do) ... so they get soft cleared by people trying to get their bounty medal for minimum stamina. There is some people smashing for Smasher ticks but they often find themselves on the BB soon after (unless the target is openly saying they won't bounty them or want to lose levels).

 

Not knowing when a bounty will be placed, can be exciting as well. Means it will be tougher to make a party to drop someone 5, cause you would have to be online all the time. Also, it would save the target from having to spend extra gold / FSP to post them ... really like the idea of using wasted gold in pvp as the reward (aka gold the system eats in a pvp battle). Just need to refine your idea a bit more with the new BB

Edited by Windbattle, 18 June 2015 - 14:45.

[Mister Doom]

So, you think it's ok to people hit others all day without any kind of repercussion?
That's the initial proposal.

If I hit you with normal hits 20 times one day (remember that means 20x100 stam hits), and you don't have gold on hand, the auto-bounty will not trigger...Is that ok for you? You think that system really works? 

So yeah, TED can aim to a single guild, hit ALL the members and go out free without any punishment for that, because, again, we didn't took any gold, only XP, oh, I see...That REALLY works GREAT.

If you watch the boards most of the bounties are over TED members, not posted by TED.
With the new system we can smash all day long without bounties, only losing a few XP when we take some gold, well, as I see it, it's a lawless system, we can completelly smash a guild ruinning the play experience and go out free?

C'mon...

 

And yet, instead of suggesting that the auto bounty system factor in xp taken as well as gold, you instead argue for the bounty mechanic that (conveniently) also lets players dole out their own form of vigilante justice.

 

C'mon...

[Spider0007]

Personallly attacking me shows how low of character you have become. Fact: You have never beat me in pvp and you probably never will. That you smashed brand new players I was trying to mentor in the game doesn't mean your a good pvper. It means your an opportunist. 

 

Is this the kind of feedback the cows were looking for? LOL You have derailed this thread long enough. I call for a suspension of your forum privileges until further notice. Cows had to warn you several times yesterday for derailing stuff and removed posts. You think that would have been a clue that your going to far.

PvP Protection: 26d 23h 7m 16s

 

ROFL. Enough said.

Edited by Spider0007, 18 June 2015 - 14:40.

[Calista]

The team (including myself) are currently looking through this thread and taking notes and we're going to discuss all the issues raised so far. From what I've read so far the main issues of contention appear to be around the bounty board but we'll be sure to look at all the comments and feedback.

 

Thank you, Hoof. It shows alot that the HCS team is listening to the concerns of the players and trying to come up with something that works better for everyone. For many of us, the main bone of contention is the lack of a way to stand up for ourselves with the new system. The removal of the current Bounty Board would leave the players with no viable options, or at least no way of discouraging constant attacks.

[Maehdros]

Since auto bounties will be based on the gold sunk during a pvp combat, can the gold theft rates be looked into as well?

They are currently aweful ( in my humble opinion) and as the new system stands each bounty will cost 2 levels, I'd like to get a nice bang for my buck in that case



Cheers!

[Maury Bund]

Here is my wall of text proposal for modifications to the upcoming PvP league:

 

Medals

• Smasher and Bounty Hunter stay as is
• Dominance Medal is no longer obtainable but will still show on character data sheet to add to count for Pride buff. Any remaining ticks for progress are transferred to new League PvP medal
• New League PvP Medal will be so many hours in top 5,10, or whatever number HCS decides. Each tier will get a modifier towards that progress- Wood x.5, Bronze x 1, Silver x 1.25, Gold x 1.5, Crystal x 1.75, Titan x 2
• An additional medal should be awarded for a top spot, be it only 1 or top 5, for finishing in Titan League

PvP protection

 

• Can still be bought and will continue to protect xp in unranked attacks.
• As long as protection is valid, player will not appear as target in League play.
• After a player's protection has ended, they will automatically be placed back into the queue for Wood league, no matter what league they were in before purchasing.

 

Unrated attacks

 

• No changes.
• Can be placed on BB and soft or hard cleared. Bounty Hunters discretion on how much stamina to use.

 

Current ladder tokens and rewards

 

• Move all ladder resources to Arena Rewards to be bought with those token.
• All unspent ladder tokens can be used to buy the new League rewards at a rate equal to time frame of current ladder vs league periods.
• Tokens must be used within 6 months, after which they are gone.
• Ladder tokens can also be exchanged for Arena tokens (would like to see it as 1 to 1).

 

League Attacks

 

• 50 stamina attacks. No more, no less. Do same amount of xp and gold damage as current 50 stamina attack.
• Every x number of attacks, a number is rolled 1-24, that will determined how many hours before it does another roll to randomly place a League attack on the BB. Each time the randomizer for placing on the BB fails, the next roll should have an increased chance until eventually they are placed onto the BB, at which point the chance to place will reset to base
• The time frame roll should stack, so that if it is set at say 10 attacks to roll for cahnce and a player makes 50 attacks in a day, they should not be waiting 24 hours max to see if they are going to be placed on BB, but could end up waiting up to 15 days to see the BB
• League Bounty posts are set for maximum xp loss of a current 10 x 10 attack. Any clears from these bounties are not available to be counter bountied. The award for these system generated bounties will be the amount of gold that accumulated from what I call the HCS tax since their last League chance roll so not all PvP lost gold is retained in the system, but only a portion and none is added into the system

Bounty Board

• Unrated attacks and counter bounties still have 48 hours to post
• Only League placed bounties will transfer League rating, but not show on the Bounty Board, only when you place the attack
• Bounties now only have 24 hours to clear, but the only timer you can see is bounties placed on you.

 

League Start

 

Everyone is opted in and PvP protection from the League queue is suspended until after the start up period. Rating can be transferred, but no xp taken on PvP protected players. No medal ticks given during this period.

 

Balance

 

The Titan League is most apt to be dominated by EoC players and those who can create, or are willing to purchase, high end composing potions. Don't see any way to level that playing field completely. What can be done is put in a stat modifier for players that are outside of 100 level difference, that using the same level buffs, still have a fairly equal chance to win or lose. Kind of like what you tried to do in Eldevin -  though you neglected the haste and range of skills modifications open to the different levels, so do this one better.

 

New players

 

Will not join league play for x numbers days or 24 hours after completing some PvP tutorial types quests created around level 50