454 replies to this topic

[Pythia]

Nice Hoofmaster.

 

Thank you.

[Leos3000]

after seeing another thread for a hide and seek competition...maybe this idea "hide and seek" could be employed by the dailies...even better- could be an idea for daily events still to come out...

Already a daily quests. Hunting for SE's is essentially hide and seek..

[Morgwyn]

We're planning to have the next update ready within the next couple of weeks which will include many new types of Daily Quest and also new rewards for them too

 

That is great news Hoof!

Due to discussions in this and other threads, may I ask you which aproach HCS follows on the dailies, are they meant as stam sinks or encouraging game play? That way we as a community can make better suggestions for tweaks.

[yodamus]

Already a daily quests. Hunting for SE's is essentially hide and seek..

yes this is true.. but it could be done in different ways with a little thought.... that is why it would be better suited for daily events- hide cookies all over the game..example.1000 cookies spread evenly around (probably more than 1000 )..stam banks wont matter as much, ...race is on..to find cookies

 

.yes it seems like an advantage to eoc players since they have more areas they can go to...but....if an eoc tries to go to lower level areas...the lower level players may already find them..and while they are gone..the eoc players searching thier levels would find them in those areas..so it makes for decisions as to where to look..yes, big stam banks could search more area's but that would not means they find more, as who knows where has been searched..and some my not wish to spend tons of stam searching.... so that kinda evens the playing field..prizes for amount of cookies found per player..with totals not to be seen till event is over...cookies for prizes..with pots in them,...just an idea for a sorta even competition

[Hoofmaster]

That is great news Hoof!

Due to discussions in this and other threads, may I ask you which aproach HCS follows on the dailies, are they meant as stam sinks or encouraging game play? That way we as a community can make better suggestions for tweaks.

 

The main aim would be for the Daily Quests to give players something extra to do each day when they login 

[Morgwyn]

The main aim would be for the Daily Quests to give players something extra to do each day when they login 

Thanks for your answer Hoof, apreciate that!

Though with all do respect, it is not a straight answer, unless the word extra gives it away? Something extra to do, means extra on top of what one usually thus. So may I assume then that the purpose is not to create a stam sink?

 

Sorry if I am nagging, I am just looking for clarity on the matter, so that we all can think in the right direction.

[Hoofmaster]

Thanks for your answer Hoof, apreciate that!

Though with all do respect, it is not a straight answer, unless the word extra gives it away? Something extra to do, means extra on top of what one usually thus. So may I assume then that the purpose is not to create a stam sink?

 

Sorry if I am nagging, I am just looking for clarity on the matter, so that we all can think in the right direction.

 

The idea is to have a new quest to do each day you login, so there is always a quest (and reward) to achieve. I don't see it as a stamina sink, but rather something to increase activity within the game

[Morgwyn]

Thanks for clearing that up Hoof, thus, the goal is to increase activity.

 

Some thoughts then:

Say a quest needs 100 stamina to complete, and the reward is 50, wouldn't that mean less activity in the long run? In other words, shouldn't the effort vs reward at least break even? 

If the goal is to create more activity it would actually be better to reward it a tiny bit more than the effort? More stamina left over after the daily, will in fact increase activity once the daily is done.

Not talking big rewards here, let that be clear.

 

And thanks again for taking the time to answer my direct question in my previous post!

[mary4ever]

The main aim would be for the Daily Quests to give players something extra to do each day when they login 

 

The idea is to have a new quest to do each day you login, so there is always a quest (and reward) to achieve. I don't see it as a stamina sink, but rather something to increase activity within the game

I really ♥ those words so please stick to them too & PLEASE do not divert from them like what unfortunately happened with composing, started wonderfully BUT after several updates ended up having negative effects on all kinds of PvP & GvG !!!

 

most importantly PLEASE play the game & test stuff yourself to know what is really going on & not only "blindly" listen to feedback from us players !!!

[mary4ever]

I have done all Daily Quests I saw except the Super Elite ones

 

1st one had to kill 175 Super Elite which is for ME hardly possible

2nd one had to kill 10 or so Super Elite, went to 6 maps (from 3 different SE after I checked SE kill log) & did not find any, tried it again after 6-7 hours & still no SE, was just bad luck for me & I have not given up on them, will continue to do them to help my medal progress

 

nobody is forced to do any (specific) Daily Quest/s, if you do not like one just skip it (I did so with the 175 SE kills), no harm done

 

& like hoof said:

The main aim would be for the Daily Quests to give players something extra to do each day when they login 

many guild mates & friends are doing them

[tharzill]

I missed the first DQ, but have done all of them since. They have been fun so far. Keep up the good work Hoof & Co.! 

[Maury Bund]

Had my second move # of Tiles quest. The first one ran fine, but this one would not show how many steps I had moved unless I refreshed the world page. Did something change when you added the Global Event?

[Bluetail]

Because Titan Doubler has never worked for quest, nor should it. 

 

I wonder why you say that? The quest says "Reduce a Titans Hp by X" which is exactly what Titan Doubler does, not "Kill X Titans" which is why theres confusion. Hoof mentioned that the Daily Quest is to reduce a "Titans Hp by X" not "Kill X Titans". I dont care or favour which way you put it, but if you want to change your stance on it you should change the quest details as well because it is a tad misleading. On the topic of updating live, they never have for me- only the time left seems to move until I refresh.

 

Note that's 200 HP off a titan, not actually 200 titans

Edited by Achub, 10 September 2016 - 10:21.

[cucullainn]

The main aim would be for the Daily Quests to give players something extra to do each day when they login

Not quite sure did answer your question. So I'm getting from this you think it's encouraging? I had to Quest today

Daily Quest
Travel 300 tiles
0 / 300
Gain +125 Current Stamina

Even though I have the stamina to do it I'm not leveling right now nor am I in my Leveling area. I'm also not hunting any more of the GEs because of low Stamina. So with the reward being a negative, other than a tick towards the medal. The medal that is only good for bragging and the Pride buff. Which I have never used at all. Mostly because it's forgotten. Or the one time I remembered it, it was too expensive.

Thus, this is a daily that is not going to be done. This time

[cucullainn]

The idea is to have a new quest to do each day you login, so there is always a quest (and reward) to achieve. I don't see it as a stamina sink, but rather something to increase activity within the game

Sorry just saw this.

Daily Quest
Travel 300 tiles
0 / 300
Gain +125 Current Stamina

Not enough of a reward right now. To do extra activity for. Now, if I were leveling or doing the GE. It would be done. Because then the extra stamina would be useful.

Nothing about this where I am right now is worth doing. Not saying it's bad. It's a great one, if I were doing something else.

[yodamus]

i have one similiar- travel 400 tiles,  gain +125 in current stam..while i can see where many see this is bad and negative., all someone has to do is something small,  to walk 400 tiles and get back 125...most huge stam bank should care less about a small loss..newer players are going to be doing something, moving,  so it will be a bonus to them....if hunting..this is a bonus..if hunting se or elites or titans or globals....again a bonus

 

..if someone is doing nothing and does not  like quest because they lose stam overall..all i can say  is "why??" are they not doing anything in the game?..never heard of playing a game and doing nothing ?  waiting for stam refill ? so they lose a little bit if they went out and did a little hunt on something, gain something in the game and get a little something back....at least they played the game and did something..

 

with all that said..- the + current stamina rewards may need to be taken out..due to the preceived  look of negative loss of stam..

 

so far i have done all my dq's ..and plan on doing all of them on days i can play....i have yet to see one i would not do..i am playing the game..so to me it is a bonus..

Edited by yodamus, 10 September 2016 - 14:33.

[rowbeth]

i have one similiar- travel 400 tiles,  gain +125 in current stam..while i can see where many see this is bad and negative., all someone has to do is something small,  to walk 400 tiles and get back 125...most huge stam bank should care less about a small loss..newer players are going to be doing something, moving,  so it will be a bonus to them....if hunting..this is a bonus..if hunting se or elites or titans or globals....again a bonus

 

..if someone is doing nothing and does not  like quest because they lose stam overall..all i can say  is "why??" are they not doing anything in the game?..never heard of playing a game and doing nothing ?  waiting for stam refill ? so they lose a little bit if they went out and did a little hunt on something, gain something in the game and get a little something back....at least they played the game and did something..

 

with all that said..- the + current stamina rewards may need to be taken out..due to the preceived  look of negative loss of stam..

 

so far i have done all my dq's ..and plan on doing all of them on days i can play....i have yet to see one i would not do..i am playing the game..so to me it is a bonus..

 

I really think you keep asking the wrong question, Yodamus. The key question is not "why not" but "why"? If I don't know what to do with my stam, then I've probably already given up on this game. If I'm still here doing things, then most of us are going to need a positive reason to keep doing DQs.

 

What benefit/enjoyment does this quest provide that would inspire a newish player to spend 1/4 of his daily stam on it? (on even 1/7 for someone like me?)

 

[so 300 stam for 125 stam is only 1/6 of the day gone for a newish player, but I still have to ask "why?" and *not* "why not?"]

[Bluetail]

Rowbeth said it perfectly, I posted the exact same thing when I saw this update go live. From what Ive seen 80% of quest provide you with a net loss overall (PvP and Arena are pretty easy, so Id say theyre exceptions). This on its own is not an issue but since theres no gain whats the incentive to do any of this? Is it fun? How fun can walking around for 500 tiles be? Does it feel rewarding? I cant say it does, most people feel slighted after by the fact they just threw stamina away. This just feels like those tutorials you get when you start a game to get me to check out all aspects but in this case I only get one a day.

 

If these quests provided me with even 1% more than what I put in to finish it then I could provide more support for this update. Even if I broke even I can say at least I got progress on a medal representing the time I gave to log in daily. But as it is right now, its nothing more than adding a medal without any backing to it, just a price tag. All other medals require some actual concept behind them and their own incentive. This just arbitrarily instructs you what to do or spend in exchange for a medal. What I liked about it was that it suggested something for you to try but doesnt give you enough to stop you from questioning whether or not its worth it. These arent quests, these are tasks. It will fade from existence in about a months time.

Edited by Achub, 10 September 2016 - 23:49.

[rowbeth]

So, 11 days in now. Seems like a good time to take stock and think through my personal perspective on daily quests.

 

I'm thinking from the viewpoint that DQs are intended to encourage more activity, and to get people logging in and doing something more often. I'm also starting from the perspective that I'm not going to keep doing DQs simply to waste stamina. I need a positive benefit to flow from the effort, thought and/or resources I will put in.

 

I see two main reasons why I do things in FS. One is to develop my character, and the other is to interact with other players. DQs have done a little of the latter through the forum (probably also within larger active guilds), but personally my involvement might just as well have been passive, in the sense of providing ideas on what others could do.

 

So that means my motivation for sticking with DQs will rely on character development. I don't really rate medals, so that leaves me looking for DQs to earn experience (which really means earning a stamina boost) or to earn upgrades (through gaining gold). Given that I can now compose better potions than the loyalty potions I have found useful in the past, I don't see loyalty tokens as a useful reward, but at an earlier stage with my character I would have judged that differently.

 

How does my experience with DQs over the last 11 days stack up against this? Well, I only had one stamina-gain DQ. It was to kill 175 demon creatures for 300 current stamina. Seemed promising at first sight, as 50 stam got me to a realm where I could 1-hit demons with a suicide set-up. I chose to protect my kill streak (50 stam for imp), and as I had common creatures I thought I'd try with no other buffs/potions and ended up spending 400 stam to earn 300. Had I just lost my kill streak, and used high level AM potion (compsed for ca. 22k gold + frags), I would have done this in about 290 stam total (without costing moving back from the realm). So even in this case, I could only expect to break even.

 

The gold DQs have been a bit more promising. To set a standard, I looked at what my stamina would earn hunting. Given TH/Merc, the cost of buying/casting buffs, the inefficiencies of moving and occasional 2-hits, I get about 440 gold per stamina on a normal hunt. That is now using ~40k stam every hunting once every two weeks, but the figure changes by only a couple of percent for when I did weekly hunts with ~20k stam. I've had DQs to kill 125, 175 and 225 creatures, all for 150k gold. In doing these I am going to include AM400 as the only essential buff, as it reduces the walking needed by a factor of 5. Composed AM400 costs 22k gold, so the gain from the DQ is now 130k. Given that I have teleport, I can always get to an appropriate realm for 100 stam, and I'll put the return cost against tomorrow's DQ. If these are common creatures and the realm is not huge, then I can probably find an average of 2/square, which which AM500 becomes 10 per square, and so I'd take about 200 stam to kill 175 normal creatures (more for champs or rarer). So that is about 300 stam for the quest and yields about 130k gold. If I'd spent that stamina hunting, it would have yielded 300*440=130k gold (rounding off). So anything worse than 175 normal creatures for 150k gold and I'm better off with a normal hunt (and, incidentally, getting XP from hunting at level in the process).

 

I have also had an Arena quest. Absolutely like that idea. It did, however, simply remind me why I don't play the arena: I simply don't have the time to develop the knowledge of current equipment for a range of levels I went through ages ago that I would need to compete in the arena---let alone the time and resources to acquire said equipment. I haven't had a PVP quest, but for personal reasons I will not choose to do that when it eventually gets offered.

 

I've had several walking quests, and they have always been a drain. At 440 gold per tile, walking 400 tiles equates to 176k gold, which could buy 7 max stam. If I happened to need to walk that day, then the threshold for earning benefit would drop. However, the only activities I have ever done that got anywhere near that amount of walking are titan hunting, and returning to EOC to hunt before the portals and master realms have been put in place, so this DQ will almost never be completely subsumed by normal activity. [Paragraph edited to give more balanced assessment of cost.]

 

So, on balance, what is my likely response to future DQs (based on current reward levels)?

• I am unlikely to do any current stam rewards
• I may well do reserve stam rewards, as the ability to store stam can be very useful
• I am unlikely to do any kill-X-for-gold rewards where X is bigger than 150, unles the gold grows over 150k
• arena quests I will probably do, but with most of my thought going in to how, once I retire, I will actually manage to tackle the Arena properly
• I'll ignore walking quests that are 400 tiles for 175k gold/7 max stam or worse, with a lower threshold if I have to do some walking that day anyway [bullet edited to include actual values]

I think this is a great addition to FS, but as things stand, I can't see myself doing any once I get my bornze medal in about four or five months time. With a little bit of improvement in the rewards, however, I could see myself doing DQs on most days. I'm definitely not looking for a win button, but if the reward for my effort and resources is not better than I will get in other aspects of the game, then I will stick with those other aspects (which in my case means being active once every two weeks to hunt).

 

I re-iterate that this is my personal perspective. I'm sure different players will respond differently and have different priorities. I just hope that this rather lengthy blog might be helpful to HCS as they access how well their strategy for determining the effort/reward balance is optimised to their aim of increasing player activity.

Edited by rowbeth, 12 September 2016 - 05:48.

[Pythia]

Today's dq was a nice dq.

 

Walk around a little, rest a little and it netted me +7 max stam.