25 replies to this topic

[Stelmaria]

A 48 hour window for putting up a bounty after being attacked is not long enough. Now before you start flaming, and bashing me, please hear me out.

I happen to be Jewish. I keep all of the Jewish Holidays. The average length of time during those holidays where things like work, driving, computer usage (etc.) is prohibited, is 49-73 hours long . The 73 hour-long period is when the holiday coincides with the Sabbath- in other words,when the Sabbath is the day before the holiday begins, or Sabbath begins the eve that the holiday ends.

Now, in all fairness, I understand that the amount of Jewish people playing this game is probably a minority. Therefore, I'm not going to start ranting about how you might have events running only on Saturday, or only during a Jewish Holiday, or other sorts of things like that. However, I believe it would be nice if you developers could please take into consideration one thing: bounties.

I was attacked by a player as soon as the holiday of Sukkot began. I only discovered this after the 49 hour period ended. I was, of course, unable to place a bounty on him, because of the 48 hour time window. I am rather upset about the particular attack, because he caused me to drop a level, and I couldn't retaliate by putting a bounty on his head.

I believe that if there are other Jewish people who play this game, I know that I speak for them as well. I would greatly appreciate it if the time window could be extended to at least 52-76 hours. I hope this is not too much to ask for. I'm almost positive that many other players would also appreciate an extended time window, especially if they have a life outside of gaming, and are unable to log in every day or every other day.

Thanks for your time and consideration,
Stel

[mitgsx]

I agree, extend the bounty window.

The attacker gets to choose whenever for the hit, why should the target get only a small window?

I personally like seeing players keeping buffed up and wasting stam while on the BB.

[Maehdros]

I don't see 2 days as a small window of time, 48 hours is plenty of time for a player to choose whenever they wish to post a bounty. It takes only a few seconds to log in, and post someone.

[smileynirv]

i agree. the community and HCS are both trying to find ways to liven up the bounty board. this is a small idea but would allow bounties to be placed that otherwise wouldn't.

[mitgsx]

Maybe the yang to my post, maybe shorten the duration the bounty can linger on the board then?

[shindrak]

No for this change ... stop asking to change something has been around since game started :|

[Stelmaria]

I'm glad to see that at least a few people agree with me. I was fairly certain that my suggestion would be at least received fairly positively to some. Now let's see some more opinions y'all- and maybe a Cow. :mrgreen:

Another excellent reason to extend the "window of opportunity" to place bounties. :arrow: "The attacker gets to choose whenever for the hit, why should the target get only a small window?"

"I don't see 2 days as a small window of time, 48 hours is plenty of time for a player to choose whenever they wish to post a bounty. It takes only a few seconds to log in, and post someone."

I know the concept might be a little difficult to grasp, but it really, truly is prohibited (and inconceivable) for a religious Jew to "break" their Sabbath and/or holidays in order to log in for a couple of minutes and check to see if they were attacked. The only exception that warrants us to "break" it would be a matter of life or death- ex: a guy G-d forbid had a heart-attack on the Sabbath, one is allowed to call an ambulance to take him to the hospital.

This hasn't been the 1st time it has happened to me where a PvP-er "took advantage" of a Jewish Holiday to attack me, where I am unable to retaliate.

To most of those who disagree with me, you're most likely a PvP-er who enjoys the freedom of being able to attack a player freely without repercussions. This may be a PvP-based game, but there's a reason why there's a Bounty Board, which I hopefully don't have to explain. Players should be able to use it whenever they are attacked by someone, with either a longer time limit, or none at all, since there is no time limit to attack someone except maybe that they have to wait a meager 10 minutes before attacking the same person again (unless they changed that).

Also, I'm not saying that 48 hours is not a long time. What I'm saying is, it's not long enough- especially for people with religious obligations such as myself.

"No for this change ... stop asking to change something has been around since game started :| "

There are plenty of things in the game that were around since time immemorial, and have been changed (such as bounties up on the BB expiring after 48 hours), and there are new things constantly being added and old things being taken away from the game. There's a reason for the suggestions/feedback area in the forums. It's for people who have an idea for making a change that they believe will benefit players in some way, or if they have a complaint about other aspects of the game.

[EvilLyn]

This hasn't been the 1st time it has happened to me where a PvP-er "took advantage" of a Jewish Holiday to attack me, where I am unable to retaliate.

To those who disagree, you're most likely a PvP-er who enjoys the freedom of being able to attack a player freely without repercussions. This may be a PvP-based game, but there's a reason why there's a Bounty Board, which I hopefully don't have to explain.

Also, I'm not saying that 48 hours is not a long time. What I'm saying is, it's not long enough- especially for people with religious obligations such as myself.

I highly doubt that any PVPer "took advantage" of a Jewish holiday. What makes you think that they specifically attacked that time frame to avoid the bounty board? there have been plenty of times i havent been able to log in for days, i have lost items from the mailbox, missed gvgs, whatever. its part of what happens. there is a reason for the limits. When i pvp i hope they bounty me. Never have i said, "ooh its almost a holiday, NOW is the time to hit!"

[Stelmaria]

TheEvilLyn,
I was speaking figuratively when I said "taken advantage of" (hence the quotation marks. If I was speaking literally, I would have left thouse out. ). I highly doubt (like you), that the person specifically knew that I'm Jewish (I don't indicate this anywhere on my profile), and neither do I believe in any way, that the person knew that it was a Jewish Holiday when he/she decided to attack me. Oddly enough though, the majority of times I seem to get attacked are either on the Sabbath or during a Jewish Holiday, but that's besides my point. My point here, is that the game system allows for people such as myself, to be "taken advantage of" (so to speak), while we are most vulnerable, unable to protect ourselves, and unable to retaliate afterwards.

I too have lost mailbox items because of missing the window to collect them, however this is something that is avoidable by simply not putting up items before a holiday, when I know that I might end up missing being able to collect them if they don't sell, and then losing the items. Putting up a bounty after being attacked is slightly different in that you don't have a choice- the player attacks you or he/she doesn't. You have no influence on that really- and putting "please don't attack me" in the bio more often than not will actually cause people to attack you, not deter them. I've tried that approach before- it doesn't work.

[lawyergod]

TheEvilLyn,
I was speaking figuratively when I said "taken advantage of" (hence the quotation marks. If I was speaking literally, I would have left thouse out. ). I highly doubt (like you), that the person specifically knew that I'm Jewish (I don't indicate this anywhere on my profile), and neither do I believe in any way, that the person knew that it was a Jewish Holiday when he/she decided to attack me. Oddly enough though, the majority of times I seem to get attacked are either on the Sabbath or during a Jewish Holiday, but that's besides my point. My point here, is that the game system allows for people such as myself, to be "taken advantage of" (so to speak), while we are most vulnerable, unable to protect ourselves, and unable to retaliate afterwards.

I too have lost mailbox items because of missing the window to collect them, however this is something thaavoidable by simply not putting up items before a holiday, when I know that I might end up missing being able to collect them if they don't sell, and then losing the items. Putting up a bounty after being attacked is slightly different in that you don't have a choice- the player attacks you or he/she doesn't. You have no influence on that really- and putting "please don't attack me" in the bio more often than not will actually cause people to attack you, not deter them. I've tried that approach before- it doesn't work.

I AM Jewish, and frankly, I'm with Lyn on this one. I've been hit in PvP and been unable to retaliate, or missed a Global Quest or other Event, or any number of other things, numerous times while playing this game, both for religious and other reasons, and never once did I feel like the rules of the game itself were skewed against me because of my religion. Dumb luck happens.

Whether the 48-hour rule should change for OTHER reasons is a different matter (personally, I think two days is plenty, but there's an argument both ways), but to propose a change due to a primarily religious rationale is ludicrous to me. More than anything, it opens up the same sort of argument for every OTHER religion, ethnic group, or what have you. The rules of the game should be enforced independently of individual concerns, religious or otherwise; to ask otherwise is inherently unfair.

[Stelmaria]

TheEvilLyn,
I was speaking figuratively when I said "taken advantage of" (hence the quotation marks. If I was speaking literally, I would have left thouse out. ). I highly doubt (like you), that the person specifically knew that I'm Jewish (I don't indicate this anywhere on my profile), and neither do I believe in any way, that the person knew that it was a Jewish Holiday when he/she decided to attack me. Oddly enough though, the majority of times I seem to get attacked are either on the Sabbath or during a Jewish Holiday, but that's besides my point. My point here, is that the game system allows for people such as myself, to be "taken advantage of" (so to speak), while we are most vulnerable, unable to protect ourselves, and unable to retaliate afterwards.

I too have lost mailbox items because of missing the window to collect them, however this is something thaavoidable by simply not putting up items before a holiday, when I know that I might end up missing being able to collect them if they don't sell, and then losing the items. Putting up a bounty after being attacked is slightly different in that you don't have a choice- the player attacks you or he/she doesn't. You have no influence on that really- and putting "please don't attack me" in the bio more often than not will actually cause people to attack you, not deter them. I've tried that approach before- it doesn't work.

I AM Jewish, and frankly, I'm with Lyn on this one. I've been hit in PvP and been unable to retaliate, or missed a Global Quest or other Event, or any number of other things, numerous times while playing this game, both for religious and other reasons, and never once did I feel like the rules of the game itself were skewed against me because of my religion. Dumb luck happens.

Whether the 48-hour rule should change for OTHER reasons is a different matter (personally, I think two days is plenty, but there's an argument both ways), but to propose a change due to a primarily religious rationale is ludicrous to me. More than anything, it opens up the same sort of argument for every OTHER religion, ethnic group, or what have you. The rules of the game should be enforced independently of individual concerns, religious or otherwise; to ask otherwise is inherently unfair.

You are right in that a game shouldn't be swayed one way or another solely because of a minority of players who have religious obligations (such as ourselves). I am in no way saying that the game is biased against Jews. That would be ludicrous. If you read through my other posts, you will notice that I included my idea as benefiting other players as well. Why should a player be able to attack someone with impunity, steal gold and exp (and do it repeatedly with little to no time window in between), and not give the victim the same amount of freedom to be able to retaliate? There are plenty of other browser-based games that are PvP based, and there's no "window of opportunity" to retaliate, where if you miss it, you can do nothing about it. Utopia is one example I can think of, which my husband plays on a fairly regular basis. My idea will clearly benefit other people as well. I'm bringing in the religious example to add validity to my argument. I highly doubt the Cows would listen if I simply said "48 hours isn't long enough, remove the time limit pl0x!". I'm adding a valid reason for myself, why it is not long enough for me. It's not simply a matter of "take a couple seconds to log in every other day", as you would know. I'm simply asking that the window of time for placing bounties after being attacked to be a little bit more accommodating, or perhaps as accommodating as it is for players to attack someone.

[MummRa]

TheEvilLyn,
I was speaking figuratively when I said "taken advantage of" (hence the quotation marks. If I was speaking literally, I would have left thouse out. ). I highly doubt (like you), that the person specifically knew that I'm Jewish (I don't indicate this anywhere on my profile), and neither do I believe in any way, that the person knew that it was a Jewish Holiday when he/she decided to attack me. Oddly enough though, the majority of times I seem to get attacked are either on the Sabbath or during a Jewish Holiday, but that's besides my point. My point here, is that the game system allows for people such as myself, to be "taken advantage of" (so to speak), while we are most vulnerable, unable to protect ourselves, and unable to retaliate afterwards.

I too have lost mailbox items because of missing the window to collect them, however this is something thaavoidable by simply not putting up items before a holiday, when I know that I might end up missing being able to collect them if they don't sell, and then losing the items. Putting up a bounty after being attacked is slightly different in that you don't have a choice- the player attacks you or he/she doesn't. You have no influence on that really- and putting "please don't attack me" in the bio more often than not will actually cause people to attack you, not deter them. I've tried that approach before- it doesn't work.

I AM Jewish, and frankly, I'm with Lyn on this one. I've been hit in PvP and been unable to retaliate, or missed a Global Quest or other Event, or any number of other things, numerous times while playing this game, both for religious and other reasons, and never once did I feel like the rules of the game itself were skewed against me because of my religion. Dumb luck happens.

Whether the 48-hour rule should change for OTHER reasons is a different matter (personally, I think two days is plenty, but there's an argument both ways), but to propose a change due to a primarily religious rationale is ludicrous to me. More than anything, it opens up the same sort of argument for every OTHER religion, ethnic group, or what have you. The rules of the game should be enforced independently of individual concerns, religious or otherwise; to ask otherwise is inherently unfair.

Guess ill throw my yarmulke in the ring as well. I have to agree with LG and Lyn. While I understand your plight, its just a game you got hit in PvP you lost a level, it sucks. You would have wanted to place a bounty but were not able to because of religious observation. It's unfortunate but ultimately not that big of a deal. There are much bigger things in life. Besides the attacker probably wanted to be bountied anyway. L'Shana Tova

[wil72]

"Hello, I'm a Christian, could I ask that the game be shut down for two weeks over Christmas so i can take full advantage of the Holiday and not be in fear of PvP hits".

This could be the type of request made and others like it depending on ones belief if any alteration is made to PvP by the suggestion of the original poster. I'm sorry but in my opinion ones Religion and its demands have no bearing on the mechanics of the Fallen Sword world.

[lawyergod]

TheEvilLyn,
I was speaking figuratively when I said "taken advantage of" (hence the quotation marks. If I was speaking literally, I would have left thouse out. ). I highly doubt (like you), that the person specifically knew that I'm Jewish (I don't indicate this anywhere on my profile), and neither do I believe in any way, that the person knew that it was a Jewish Holiday when he/she decided to attack me. Oddly enough though, the majority of times I seem to get attacked are either on the Sabbath or during a Jewish Holiday, but that's besides my point. My point here, is that the game system allows for people such as myself, to be "taken advantage of" (so to speak), while we are most vulnerable, unable to protect ourselves, and unable to retaliate afterwards.

I too have lost mailbox items because of missing the window to collect them, however this is something thaavoidable by simply not putting up items before a holiday, when I know that I might end up missing being able to collect them if they don't sell, and then losing the items. Putting up a bounty after being attacked is slightly different in that you don't have a choice- the player attacks you or he/she doesn't. You have no influence on that really- and putting "please don't attack me" in the bio more often than not will actually cause people to attack you, not deter them. I've tried that approach before- it doesn't work.

I AM Jewish, and frankly, I'm with Lyn on this one. I've been hit in PvP and been unable to retaliate, or missed a Global Quest or other Event, or any number of other things, numerous times while playing this game, both for religious and other reasons, and never once did I feel like the rules of the game itself were skewed against me because of my religion. Dumb luck happens.

Whether the 48-hour rule should change for OTHER reasons is a different matter (personally, I think two days is plenty, but there's an argument both ways), but to propose a change due to a primarily religious rationale is ludicrous to me. More than anything, it opens up the same sort of argument for every OTHER religion, ethnic group, or what have you. The rules of the game should be enforced independently of individual concerns, religious or otherwise; to ask otherwise is inherently unfair.

You are right in that a game shouldn't be swayed one way or another solely because of a minority of players who have religious obligations (such as ourselves). I am in no way saying that the game is biased against Jews. That would be ludicrous. If you read through my other posts, you will notice that I included my idea as benefiting other players as well. Why should a player be able to attack someone with impunity, steal gold and exp (and do it repeatedly with little to no time window in between), and not give the victim the same amount of freedom to be able to retaliate? There are plenty of other browser-based games that are PvP based, and there's no "window of opportunity" to retaliate, where if you miss it, you can do nothing about it. Utopia is one example I can think of, which my husband plays on a fairly regular basis. My idea will clearly benefit other people as well. I'm bringing in the religious example to add validity to my argument. I highly doubt the Cows would listen if I simply said "48 hours isn't long enough, remove the time limit pl0x!". I'm adding a valid reason for myself, why it is not long enough for me. It's not simply a matter of "take a couple seconds to log in every other day", as you would know. I'm simply asking that the window of time for placing bounties after being attacked to be a little bit more accommodating, or perhaps as accommodating as it is for players to attack someone.

[Wow, that's a long internal quote.]

I think that, even if you raise other points, bringing religion into the discussion at all actually weakens your argument, because its something that HCS cannot (or, at least, SHOULD not) consider when it is creating and enforcing the rules of its game. There ARE other reasons why the 48 hour limit might be extended (proposed both by yourself and by others in this thread), but religion, to me, simply cannot be part of that discussion.

I should point out, though, that your argument also seems to assume that the Bounty Board is the only method of retaliation for a PvP hit.

Why should a player be able to attack someone with impunity, steal gold and exp (and do it repeatedly with little to no time window in between), and not give the victim the same amount of freedom to be able to retaliate?

Simply put, this is wrong; the Board isn't the only avenue of PvP retaliation. It's just the one that is easiest, fastest, and least risky for the victim (for lack of better terms, I'm using "attacker" and "victim" here), and poses the most risk to the attacker -- and thus, there is a time limit on it. There is NO such limit on hitting back yourself, hiring "mercs" to hit for you, etc. Personally, I don't like these options either -- I don't like to PvP -- but the options are there, so to say (or, at least, to imply) that ALL avenues of retaliation are closed if you can't bounty is not fair.

[Savanc]

"Hello, I'm a Christian, could I ask that the game be shut down for two weeks over Christmas so i can take full advantage of the Holiday and not be in fear of PvP hits".

Christmas holiday is hardly a holiday for a full two weeks. Maybe you don't have to work/go to school for two weeks, but Christmas is just one evening and a day (two for some countries). :roll:

[mimdala]

"Hello, I'm a Christian, could I ask that the game be shut down for two weeks over Christmas so i can take full advantage of the Holiday and not be in fear of PvP hits".

Christmas holiday is hardly a holiday for a full two weeks. Maybe you don't have to work/go to school for two weeks, but Christmas is just one evening and a day (two for some countries). :roll:

Plus, computer use is not prohibited for Christians during Christmas, but IS prohibited during Jewish holidays, as the OP said. I don't have an issue with your main point against the OP's suggestion, just your unfortunate analogy

[wil72]

"Hello, I'm a Christian, could I ask that the game be shut down for two weeks over Christmas so i can take full advantage of the Holiday and not be in fear of PvP hits".

Christmas holiday is hardly a holiday for a full two weeks. Maybe you don't have to work/go to school for two weeks, but Christmas is just one evening and a day (two for some countries). :roll:

Thank you for the enlightenment, but the comment was an exaggeration to make a point. A method used in healthy debate I think :roll: And for someone saying that the the use of computers is not prohibited in Christian faith over Christmas...how do you know? There are many Christian faiths, some more strict than others. But I do not wish to get into an argument as I was merely trying to suggest that all of this could well open a can of worms.

[Stelmaria]

Simply put, this is wrong; the Board isn't the only avenue of PvP retaliation. It's just the one that is easiest, fastest, and least risky for the victim (for lack of better terms, I'm using "attacker" and "victim" here), and poses the most risk to the attacker -- and thus, there is a time limit on it. There is NO such limit on hitting back yourself, hiring "mercs" to hit for you, etc. Personally, I don't like these options either -- I don't like to PvP -- but the options are there, so to say (or, at least, to imply) that ALL avenues of retaliation are closed if you can't bounty is not fair.

To be perfectly honest with you, I had no idea there were other methods of retaliation aside from BB and simply attacking the player back myself. Since I don't PvP, the second option is pretty much not an option for me- I'd most likely lose the encounter.

Since many of you feel that the religious argument is weak, especially pertaining to Judaism, and that the Cows would ignore that aspect, let's put the Judaism "thing" on the back-burner and look at the suggestion from the average player's view.

The BB is practically empty these days. I can't really say why this is, but many of you probably can. I think that if players had a longer "window of opportunity" to place their bounties, they might just put their bounties up- especially those people who aren't on every day, or maybe are only able to log on to level once a week (because of work/life in general), and I'm SURE that there are a LOT of us that are like that. I know that if I had the opportunity to put up ALL my bounties because of either a longer window, or no time limit at all, I would seriously jump at the opportunity. Clearly giving players the ability to buy BB tickets with gold, has not been a big enough incentive to post bounties. Not to mention that they recently made bounties that are up on the board expire after 48 hours.

Let's imagine that there was no time limit to put up a bounty after you get attacked. You put up your bounty, nobody accepts it and it then expires after 48 hours. I'm sure you would probably want to put it back up- unless you can re-post it after it expires (with the time limit we currently have)- but I don't think that is the case.

Anyway, there really is no reason why they shouldn't extend it. It would make it easier for PvE-ers to deal with PvP attacks, and as far as I'm aware, they haven't really made any significant changes to the game that affects all PvE-ers, and this kind of change would benefit a large part of the player-base, in my opinion.

[Maehdros]

Anyway, there really is no reason why they shouldn't extend it. It would make it easier for PvE-ers to deal with PvP attacks, and as far as I'm aware, they haven't really made any significant changes to the game that affects all PvE-ers, and this kind of change would benefit a large part of the player-base, in my opinion.

No significant changes? Protection, ability to bounty ALL hits ( off the board pvp), Ability to bounty all acceptances of a bounty, Reduced xp loss % for pvp hits, Smasher medal retweaked, I could go on, but thats just a few.


As for you saying there's no reason why the 48 hours shouldnt be extended, I beg to differ. It's simply NOT needed.