18 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

To expand on the thread (https://forums.hunte...e=1#entry964147) started by Luis, this is my attempt to break it down and get a more in-depth response.

 

Luis's thread pretty much descended into anarchy and vitriole, let's TRY to keep this one (and the others, regarding other mega-potions) civil please ?

[BadPenny]

I only use them to hunt, as most are primarily for that purpose anyway. Very rarely are the pots inside even useable for PvP, so I don't understand the problem here...

[Pardoux]

I only use them to hunt, as most are primarily for that purpose anyway. Very rarely are the pots inside even useable for PvP, so I don't understand the problem here...

 

It's just opening up the question that Luis raised Penny. By breaking it down by type of epic potion, folk can give a more specific opinion..

[Mister Doom]

My opinion is widely known, they need to be nerfed across the board.

(Of course many won't be willing to let go of their win buttons, so they won't be...)

[Pythia]

These are hunting potions and can be used to help in qualification in events, ie... Lightfoot, conserve and am mostly.

[Pythia]

Oh yes, and please oh please leave the loyalty section alone so we don't develop any problems there. It's just fine.

[Egami]

GE pots are limited in number. No issue. 

[TxLxS]

I believe there fine everyone has access to them to use in pve or pvp.

[cucullainn]

I think they are fine as is.

[yghorbeviahn]

Well, it's very hard to find a problem when we don't know where to look, so lets run some real examples.

*I'll always use the base of 50K for all status, just to make easier to work*

And I don't know how each buff is layered, which active first than others, so I'll be working with only the 50.000 base.
 

Cur Ruby Box:

 

Constituition 525 - 52,5% Increase on Defense.

50.000 becomes 76250.

 

Smashing Hammer 525 - 26,25% Increase on Damage per set equipped.

50.000 becomes 105.000 (26,25x4 since we will be using 4 sets)

 

Keen Edge 525 - 52,5% Increase on Attack for each set equipped.

50.000 becomes 165.000 (52,5x4 since we wll be using 4 sets)

 

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That's just a small example, and with that we can easily see that it is IMPOSSIBLE to match those numbers without using another Global/Epic Potion yourself, there is simple no way lvl 175/192 buffs can beat a player using those big potions if they're the same level you're, with equivalent gear.

To beat someone using those big potions the only way for hitting/killing them is by using Fist Fight and trying the odds of getting an activation.

-

Now we need to analyze what that means for the game mechanics, and how to abuse it.

1st - GvG.
You can have a very competitive and well dressed team on your GvG Guild, but if a Guild start a Conflict with yours, and they are using those pots, there is NO WAY to protect your Guild, simply because you're not able to use your potion on your guildmates, and if they're offline they can't drink it for themselves, that makes completely useless any try to cast buffs or anything, you just wait for them to finish the attacks and try to find a gap where they go offline and the buffs runs out.

For me that kills the idea of Guild Conflicts entirely.

2nd - Bounty Board.
A player can hit everyone on they level range hourly, and receive multiple bounties on their head, and no one will be able to clear those bounties if the person countinues to use those potions. 

3rd - Ladder.
Any player can use those potions and never lose a hit (attacking or defending), considering the enemy is not using the same potions.

-

For those things kills PvP, and make the players with more ways to access those potions way too ahead of those who can't, that means rich players who buys more Epic Potion and those with more stamina banks to get Top 100 on Globals and receive extra Chests.

For me PvP should not have buffs over lvl192.
Once you start any PvP combat the buff level should become 192 (or less if the buff you're using is not 192 or higher), that would not change the level of your buff during PvE, you'll not lose your SH480 if you hit a player, only for that combat.

That would give the same fighting chance for everyone, and create a very more friendly PvP game, which will make knowledge and pratice a very important roll on the PvP scenario, and will not change the power level of the big potions during PvE/Levelling.

[Egami]

Yg's #10 post makes it clear: Everybody should use those pots as it fits their strategy.

 

@ 1 GvG: 

 

In the example given, the defending Guild has "24 hours" to come on and use GE pots to defend and retaliate. The defending guild has an advantage as far as RP is concerned in a draw situation.

 

Yes, I'm keeping in mind that this post is only dealing with GE pots. 

 

I get Yg's idea about defending your own. I'd offer forth as a metaphor that you never know when an attack is going to occur.

 

Most attack when the enemy is unprepared. I find it hard to agree that 3 people should be able to protect the 97 that are sleeping unprepared.

 

As for 2 and 3: 

 

GE pots are limited in number. No issue. 

[Tastria]

Yg's #10 post makes it clear: Everybody should use those pots as it fits their strategy.

 

@ 1 GvG: 

 

In the example given, the defending Guild has "24 hours" to come on and use GE pots to defend and retaliate. The defending guild has an advantage as far as RP is concerned in a draw situation.

 

Yes, I'm keeping in mind that this post is only dealing with GE pots. 

 

I get Yg's idea about defending your own. I'd offer forth as a metaphor that you never know when an attack is going to occur.

 

Most attack when the enemy is unprepared. I find it hard to agree that 3 people should be able to protect the 97 that are sleeping unprepared.

 

As for 2 and 3: 

I sort of have to agree, there are a finite number of chests out there, and I don't think anyone has ever used them on us in GvG.  It would seem to me, as rare as the chests are, it wouldn't be worth it to squander them on something as mundane as GvG.

    I'd leave things as is.

 

    Note:  There are currently 6082 Emblazoned Royal Chests in Back Packs. (Not counting the ones still in mailboxes)

                                                1772 Cut Ruby Boxes rusting away in said Back Packs

    That's only two examples according to the UFSG, and a bunch of these doubtlessly belong to inactives.

[Pythia]

I just looked at one of each of the chests in my back pack and for the most part they are leveling potions.

 

If people are using them in GvGs then, in my book, you deserve everything the defending guild can throw at you including the castle sink.  lol

 

Now those are easy win stats, that's for sure. 

 

You are supposed to be putting together your things the way Big Grim says Brice puts his stuff together.  

 

You should play with gear more.  I try stuff on when I'm not to tired to do so.

Edited by Pythia, 12 August 2016 - 14:58.

[yghorbeviahn]

I understand the super pots are not unlimited, and I know most of the time people are not using it for PvP, the problem is when they do, GE Pots are 3 times stronger than castable buffs, and some are 2x stronger than Composing potions...I don't think any kind of potion should make someone invencible, because that's what happens, using a reasonable amount of Epic/Global potions you can be unbeatable.

That's my only issue with that, it's not something really killing the PvP, it's onlt a real pain in the a** when it happens.

[Pythia]

I understand that too. 

 

I wish people did not feel they had to win all the time every time. 

 

It take so much of the enjoyment out things.

[BadPenny]

The pots didn't kill PvP for me, it was the attitude people tend to have about it. I've always played the whole game until recently, but the whiny notes, the "it's ok if I hit you for prestige, but you better not farm me" type thing, those took the fun out of it. Now, I'm an active pillow fighter for SA, and tbh, I would rather have the challenges that beating a super pot user brings, rather than the humdrum boredom of swinging on somebody unbuffed in their epic gear. I just think it through and do my best. My track record is pretty good btw.

The thing is, most global pots are designed for leveling, and tbh, I don't see how they impact PvP that much. Granted, there are a handful of stat buffs from time to time, and maybe they do make it tougher, but I'd rather have to think than mindlessly swing away on the defenceless.



Just my 2 pennies.

[dobroeutro]

I think they're fine as the are... 

[cucullainn]

Here's my thing. It's been a long time since anybody's really seen Hoof. He showed up not too long ago when a thread was started about daily events and daily Quest. You could tell by the people responding to the post that he had been greatly missed. Now we have players posting threads begging him to make an appearance and come back to the game. Many believe the game has become routine. Thus their ideas I believe for daily quest or daily events. In any case we all would love to see some much-needed attention to the game.

I for one believe the potions are fine the way they are now but after reading a few threads on the matter. It seems there is a lot of concern about potions and PVP. I for one know it's part of the game and have participated PvP. I believe the concern is rising now because Eoc is reaching levels one never thought might be achieved. Especially when I remember a time when EOC was level 250. Higher levels mean higher level potions. I don't believe any additional potions should be increased to higher levels. Because then the mechanics stated in opinionss about potions now, will really be evident in any new ones.

Also, I have hopes that the next wave of Zorgrom vs Shroud will have potions changes. Only nothing like I said that will increase PVP from where it is now :-)

[Pythia]

Do a mouse over of his name to see when he was last here.