40 replies to this topic

[DirtyChick]

Mostly, 'cos, IMO, folk would leave the game were it removed. I know, it's an old chestnut, the old "I'll leave the game if .." crap, but in this case, I really think folk would.

 

I'd love more of a challenge in the game, but removing IMP isn't the way to do it I don't think

 

What a load of old tosh! the same players that fought through lvl 186 challenge without SSI would now quit the game cos their easy peasy levelling would dare them to engage their brain? These are the same players that were intrigued enough to stick with it @186 and beyond? well of course they were or they wouldn't still be here and grown above lvl 186..as I said, what a load of old tosh 

[yghorbeviahn]

A small portion of the Watch Your Back Brew is used by Titan Hunters too, on Titans like Eater of Time and Krakaradon, which you can't survive back, but like I said, a very small portion.

I think we can change the question from "How have I died?" to "How am I losing so many imps?" if we only get creatures stats fiting the big pots and gear we have now, but of course, that would demand a lot more work from HCS, they will need to implement more gear and a lot more 'stats thinking' creatures, damn, I can hit even Champions without caring to look at their stats.

[DirtyChick]

As for a nwbie myself, PvE and leveling is what make the game enjoyable for me and possibly the only aspect of the game that we, the newbie could enjoy...
Yeah, i know there's a lot of other thing that you can do inside that game such as arena, pvp and more, but we are on a complete disadvantage for that.

Arena ?
How can i, a mere level 180 Newbie can do against a veteran player that has the best equipment and move for arena.

Pvp ?
" Dont even think of using deflct since i have anti-deflect buffed just for that, bounty board ? well, my guildies that is level XXX can cleared it for me and we can even share the prize "
 
and even worse, Titan Hunting.
I mean come on, give us a chance..you're level XXXX and you still want to hunt kraken ?

 Hey and welcome to FS
 
Yep I checked your profile and saw you are a new player just joined us 6 weeks ago ish..hope you hang about for 6 years, i really do
 
As you pointed out, as a new player, PvE and thus gaining levels is what makes you log in. Of course it is and that's my whole point with this request in my OP. New players HAVE to gain levels to broaden their experience and their character within the FS world, a lvl 1, 5 or even 30 is unable to do much so (s)he has to level up their character to explore all of the versatile activities supplied and provided by HCS/Hoof in this game.
 
MY point in OP is to attempt to highlight how a specific additional buff/skill introduced to gameplay has been detrimental upon the overall 'player base', something that yourself as a new player may not appreciate due to being unaware of the previous 5+years of this game.
 
Arena is limited ONLY by your character level and the gear your character at such a level can equip. Players that are dinosaurs in age and levels are restricted by the game code and are only able to equip gear which is dictated by the Arena Level that you join.. eg : Arena is LvL 175...you and your opponent are both eqipped with max. lvl 175 gears..character level has no influence or effect on such matters.
 
PvP is balanced, especially at your level because the ONLY opponents you challenge are within 5 levels of your character level, thus gear you both wear and compete in is the same. From what you say about Deflect buff and Anti-Deflect buff, quite frankly you don't have a clue cos Deflect when active has a very strong chance to prevent an opponent from even actually succeeding in attacking you! Anti-Deflect is a buff for an 'attacker' to reduce the chance of Deflect activating on the character (s)he is attacking. Anti-Deflect is NOT a defensive skill, it is an OFFENSIVE skill, so please do not use it or expect it to save you in a PvP incoming attack..which is how I read your comment in regard to the buff.
 
Bounty Board and how it operates + Titan Hunting..two things that maybe you don't fully understand as yet and I won't explain because that is not what this topic is about

[DirtyChick]

A small portion of the Watch Your Back Brew is used by Titan Hunters too, on Titans like Eater of Time and Krakaradon, which you can't survive back, but like I said, a very small portion.

I think we can change the question from "How have I died?" to "How am I losing so many imps?" if we only get creatures stats fiting the big pots and gear we have now, but of course, that would demand a lot more work from HCS, they will need to implement more gear and a lot more 'stats thinking' creatures, damn, I can hit even Champions without caring to look at their stats.

 

Ahh ok. So that pot has a use in that aspect of the game. What does that have to do with SSI? Titans purely by their creature classification dictates that they are difficult to kill. Are you claiming that SSI is ESSENTIAL for hunting that specific Titan creature? If you are then surely the Hunter needs to be stronger and able to withstand the damage that that Titan throws back.

 

ie: Level-up and get strong enough to kill Titan without Yoda saving your backside?

[yghorbeviahn]

Ahh ok. So that pot has a use in that aspect of the game. What does that have to do with SSI? Titans purely by their creature classification dictates that they are difficult to kill. Are you claiming that SSI is ESSENTIAL for hunting that specific Titan creature? If you are then surely the Hunter needs to be stronger and able to withstand the damage that that Titan throws back.

 

ie: Level-up and get strong enough to kill Titan without Yoda saving your backside?

No no, I'm not saying that, I just said Watch Your Back Brew have a few more uses other than PvP, and SSI doesn't help that much with big Titans, you can check the stats of Eater of Time:
 

Attack: 118347  -  118399   Defense: 1738  -  1862   Armor: 1706  -  1894   Damage: 128531  -  128641   HP: 50264  -  50536
 

Also, his Enhancements:
 

Piercing Strike: 75%  -  100%     Critical Hit: 75%  -  100%     Disarm: 75%  -  100%     First Strike: 50%  -  75%     Hypnotize: 50%  -  75%

SSI, just save you few times, that's why Watch Your Back Brew is good against that kind of Titan, but that have NOTHING to do with the Topic, I was just explaining other uses to Watch Your Back Brew.

-

I see your point, don't get me wrong, I just think that is more relevant to adjust the creatures stats with the gear/pots we have now than just remove SSI, because even without SSI we would still get an absurd amount of space to kill it safely enough...And people would learn very fast how to avoid dying, will share the knowledge and in 2 weeks we will be back at the same point we are now.

[DirtyChick]

 

I see your point, don't get me wrong, I just think that is more relevant to adjust the creatures stats with the gear/pots we have now than just remove SSI, because even without SSI we would still get an absurd amount of space to kill it safely enough...And people would learn very fast how to avoid dying, will share the knowledge and in 2 weeks we will be back at the same point we are now.

 Good explanation and fair point with regard to that specific potion.

 

However, why/how does the removal of SSI affect such gameplay? You say that without the buff then Hunters will build and use and share the combat set-up to continue hunting. Is that not a good aspect to gameplay? Building new set-ups, actually making a use of gear that is introduced instead of being 'worthless' outside of PvP?

 

All I'm actually seeing here is back-up for my request to remove the buff and introduce some actual use for the 'few and scarce' sets introduced since lvl 1550 ish.

 

So be it level 186 or level 1550+. let's get some worth back into the SE/LE/Rare Champs sets that are created by BG. Let's get some worth and some 'brain power' in conjunction with the hardwork 'he' spends his time on? Let's have more than 5 mins checking stats on UFSG before a hunt, get some gear to withstand the 'new' stat mix-ups he creates..OR we could just carry on ignoring all of that now and forever just ensuring we have SSI ACTIVE to save us? *yawns*

[macb00k]

Just dont use it.. or do! The choice is yours =)
 

Im sorry but bloody is right, you can choose whether to use it or not, not everyone has access to composing pots or high level pots to help them, the buff was put there for a reason, same as other uffs, the buff is useful and generates income for those who have it, it also provides aid for those who need it, if you want SSI removed because it 'doesnt make things more challenging' then why not remove the high level buffs like smashing hammer, CoA and etc, remove the high level composing pots aswell.... its not a bright request amd it certainly wont happen due to the fact that its a buff that most people about 'X' level will need, i rarely use SSI and i rarely lose... apart from the new 450 titan i had a decent kill streak.

And you cant say little knowledge is being passed on when i for one do my best to help the newbies and returnin players whether they are in my guild or not

[Morgwyn]

Personally I think SSI is not such a big problem. As it will still go down once your defense fails. Keep it mind that defense has a % of failing even if it is higher than the monsters attack. 

 

The problem is that it should affect on armor aswell.

 

 

The bigger problem in the game is gear and the lack of good gear/sets being dropped from elites/champs. So much gear in game, so many monsters, but 90% of the drops is useless. A waste of artwork, time and resources.

If that gear would be "fixed" you prolly can make far more challenging setups, that players can hunt themselves.

And I am not asking for overpowered sets/items here. Just useful ones.

Cause after having hunted down a Leikmar set back in the old days, I really cannot remember having wanted to hunt down an elite for it's gear.

 

I am not sure wether SSI makes players leave the game, I'd blame it more on new players expecting everything on a silver platter. Why? I think two reasons.

- They think they need FF/LE gear to advance in the early levels so they get focussed on that gear to soon.

- The tuturial should point out the combat basics better and explain what critters there are out there.

[BigGrim]

I cannot see us removing any buffs from the game. Things to bear in mind :

Not everyone has the high level Composing buffs. That takes a lot of time, effort and gold to be rewarded for those buffs. (I've been leveling for ages, with loads of pots made during the day. I'm still only level 14 and it uses a LOT of gold and Frags.)

Not everyone partakes in the Global Events.

Not everyone has access to massive Guild Stores full of the best gear.

Not everyone is in a Guild with the best Relics or Structures to buff their stats.

Even if in a Guild, their Guildmates may not be able to provide free buffs on demand.

Remember, this game is for everyone. Not just the bigger Guilds.

[daripper41]

I agree with DC,,,but lets go deeper,,,when this game first started it seemed to be very successful with lots of players online all the time,,,well,,,the young people (cows) that run this game have never heard the saying "IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT",,,all the argueing and squabbling only add to the "IT NEEDS TO FIXED" idea,,,,reset the whole thing back to the way it was in the beginning,,,,then,,,LEAVE IT ALONE,,,,,,,,,,,it just might become successful again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:>}

[Pardoux]

What a load of old tosh! the same players that fought through lvl 186 challenge without SSI would now quit the game cos their easy peasy levelling would dare them to engage their brain? These are the same players that were intrigued enough to stick with it @186 and beyond? well of course they were or they wouldn't still be here and grown above lvl 186..as I said, what a load of old tosh 

 

I'm referring more to players who have ONLY been in the game since SSI was introduced - and they would NOT like it being removed 'cos of the "safety net" it offers them.

 

As I've said, I'm ALL in favour of making the game challenging again, but this isn't the way to do it - and, it seems, that BG has said "I cannot see us removing any buffs from the game."

 

I don't see it being removed, but hey, IF it is, "I" can adapt and live with it - can the majority of key-mashers tho ?

[Pythia]

I sometimes can't afford the buffs in the market. I have to hunt for them, and some days I have waited to hunt until someone put up buffs I could afford.

 

I don't ask a lot of questions, I play with things on my own and look at buffs and gear. What works with what and what negates what. Cursed ring and rune negate unbreakable. Conserve prevents Arterial Strike from activating.

 

In the 225 levels Falgai, I died so often and it took me some time to discover that's where I started to use DC, and Fury potions. I also discovered imps and sometimes I don't watch close enough and I die. I still die.

 

Now I know more than  few players in the 1500 range and on up are not finding enough challenge to the game and are asking for this to be done away with or that to be reduced or done away with.

 

I have read and read more.  The game is still a challenge for me, I'm always learning.

 

Sooo.... If it is not a challenge to you anymore try it with just gear and 175 buffs, like I use. I also compose my own combo potion.. Level 4 now just over halfway to level 5..  Lose your uber level composed potions and take a walk on the wild side instead of asking for things to be removed from the game.   Oh yes all the uber gear with lovely stats that can now be made. LOL Give me a break..

 

 To me the game is still a challenge and I save my uber chests for special occasions. You should do that too.

[yodamus]

 Hey and welcome to FS
 
Yep I checked your profile and saw you are a new player just joined us 6 weeks ago ish..hope you hang about for 6 years, i really do
 
As you pointed out, as a new player, PvE and thus gaining levels is what makes you log in. Of course it is and that's my whole point with this request in my OP. New players HAVE to gain levels to broaden their experience and their character within the FS world, a lvl 1, 5 or even 30 is unable to do much so (s)he has to level up their character to explore all of the versatile activities supplied and provided by HCS/Hoof in this game.
 
MY point in OP is to attempt to highlight how a specific additional buff/skill introduced to gameplay has been detrimental upon the overall 'player base', something that yourself as a new player may not appreciate due to being unaware of the previous 5+years of this game.
 
Arena is limited ONLY by your character level and the gear your character at such a level can equip. Players that are dinosaurs in age and levels are restricted by the game code and are only able to equip gear which is dictated by the Arena Level that you join.. eg : Arena is LvL 175...you and your opponent are both eqipped with max. lvl 175 gears..character level has no influence or effect on such matters.
 
PvP is balanced, especially at your level because the ONLY opponents you challenge are within 5 levels of your character level, thus gear you both wear and compete in is the same. From what you say about Deflect buff and Anti-Deflect buff, quite frankly you don't have a clue cos Deflect when active has a very strong chance to prevent an opponent from even actually succeeding in attacking you! Anti-Deflect is a buff for an 'attacker' to reduce the chance of Deflect activating on the character (s)he is attacking. Anti-Deflect is NOT a defensive skill, it is an OFFENSIVE skill, so please do not use it or expect it to save you in a PvP incoming attack..which is how I read your comment in regard to the buff.
 
Bounty Board and how it operates + Titan Hunting..two things that maybe you don't fully understand as yet and I won't explain because that is not what this topic is about

hmm. not exactly..first arena- yes you are correct about it all being equal for battles as the level 2000 players can only wear the level 175 gear.- PROBLEM IS- THE LEVEL 175 HAS ALMOST ZERO TO ENTER IN !!!!!  CAN NEVER GET INTO ENOUGH ARENA TOURNEYS TO GET THE FEEL FOR ARENA AND GET ADDICTED !! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED ASAP !!   i have given solutions to that problem many times.- bg and hoof ignore it !!  arena is a joke uselss you are level 2000 +.. VERY LITTLE TO JOIN= PLEASE FIX THIS BG AND HOOF...YES I AM UPSET..THIS ISSUE NEVER GETS FIXED..I HAVE GUILDMATE THAT WANT TO DO ARENA BUT CANT...NOTHING TO JOIN !!! 

 

NEXT, pvp- sorry but this players level 175 is in a ladder that is a joke..placing newbies AUTOMATICALLY !!!,  into a ladder that is completly unfair and everyone knows i-- CHASES PLAYERS OUT OF THE GAME !!!....yet..NOTHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT !!!   COMON HCS FIX THE LEVEL 25-250 BRACKET IN  THE PVP LADDER..HOW HARD IS IT TO DO THAT ????

 

LOTSOF UPDATES ARE HAPPENING WHICH IS GREAT TO SEE...BUT THE REALLY IMPORTANT AND SIMPLE ONES SEEM TO NEVER GET DONE- FIX ARENA, FIX THAT 25-250 PVP LADDER

[Spider0007]

I cannot see us removing any buffs from the game. Things to bear in mind :

Not everyone has the high level Composing buffs. That takes a lot of time, effort and gold to be rewarded for those buffs. (I've been leveling for ages, with loads of pots made during the day. I'm still only level 14 and it uses a LOT of gold and Frags.)
 

I believe that was your original intent with composing. However, since you allow players to guild hop and create those lvl 60 composing buffs, ANYONE can have access to them within a very short amount of time. It also allows players to reap the rewards without actually working towards it themselves.  I have suggested many times that in order to guild lock composed potions you should have a minimum of a BRONZE GUILD LOYALTY MEDAL!

[sweetlou]

NEXT, pvp- sorry but this players level 175 is in a ladder that is a joke..placing newbies AUTOMATICALLY !!!,  into a ladder that is completly unfair and everyone knows i-- CHASES PLAYERS OUT OF THE GAME !!!....yet..NOTHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT !!!   COMON HCS FIX THE LEVEL 25-250 BRACKET IN  THE PVP LADDER..HOW HARD IS IT TO DO THAT ????

I haven't heard ONE player in the bracket complain here in the forum. PVP Ladder used to be mandatory for ALL players.

 

hmm. not exactly..first arena- yes you are correct about it all being equal for battles as the level 2000 players can only wear the level 175 gear.- PROBLEM IS- THE LEVEL 175 HAS ALMOST ZERO TO ENTER IN !!!!!  CAN NEVER GET INTO ENOUGH ARENA TOURNEYS TO GET THE FEEL FOR ARENA AND GET ADDICTED !! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED ASAP !!   i have given solutions to that problem many times.- bg and hoof ignore it !!  arena is a joke uselss you are level 2000 +.. VERY LITTLE TO JOIN= PLEASE FIX THIS BG AND HOOF...YES I AM UPSET..THIS ISSUE NEVER GETS FIXED..I HAVE GUILDMATE THAT WANT TO DO ARENA BUT CANT...NOTHING TO JOIN !!!

I remember when it took stam to join the Arena. If you're asking for "free" entry, I'd like to see Bounty Hunting costs to place and take bountys go away.

Edited by sweetlou, 06 November 2015 - 21:11.

[Ringhal]

Another way to keep SSI in the game and still have it closely as the OP intended is to make all creatures from a certain level (such as from current EoC level 2700) Super Elite-like where the imp is knocked out during a miss. This would include all creatures, from the regulars up to the Titans.

[yghorbeviahn]

I cannot see us removing any buffs from the game. 

BG, anyway to look about remove Deathwish?

This buff really does nothing for the game, it breaks Conserve when activates, and also kills Overkill.

The only thing I can think this buff could do something would be if you create groups and hit a 'hard to kill' Super Elite, so you could keep creating groups until you get a DW activation, but it doesn't work on SEs too.

I really see no reason for this buff, most of the time I need to explain people way you shouldn't use it.

[vlkfenrir]

I really see no reason for this buff, most of the time I need to explain people way you shouldn't use it.

 

As much as the other statements were true, here I have to disagree. DW also eliminates the chances of crearures enhancements kicking in (no first strike, no hypnotize and so on) so I would say it is still a fine buff. Yes, probably not the most desired for some player (or styles of playing) but handy for others.

 

But to get on topic - I do like a challenge yet I would still be against removing the imp.

There is an idea that first came to my mind when I encountered "broken" creature in new content some time back. That creature was immune to AM. So why not make some critters now and then immune to particular buffs? I can immagine a big change in gear needed once SH or wither does not work out of a sudden. Just a feed for thought,

[Egami]

Remove SSI from the game.

 

I would disagree with this, though I actually do agree with all the thoughts on the lack of brain power put into hunting since it was instituted. 

 

However, I fail to see Imp as the major factor towards that end. The game is about nine years old. How many guilds do you know offering info on one-hit setups so their members don't have to think at all? 

 

But, is that a bad thing? I don't "necessarily" think so... it simply seems natural. 

 

I don't tell our new players about tons of buffs, including Imp, until they really need that info. I try to explain to them about stats and enhancements so they have a handle. 

 

Imp was instituted for reasons (good or bad). People notice when their Imp dies (or I do)... can't they still do that "wtf"? 

 

The issue I have with Imp being removed, for me, is not centered on it having been around for seven years. In fact, I still argue that Conserve needs to be fixed for what it was meant to do. Simply put, going back to the beginning would mean removing sets, potions, Super Elites, Titans... and whatever else I just skipped over without realizing. Things that have developed since those beginnings have included Imps as part of the mechanic. I'd remind players of the fact that leveling is actually better XP gain-wise if you kamikazee hunt and don't use an Imp at all (KS and DD aside and, btw, don't forget about Defiance, lmao), that was a major strategy years ago. I don't know if people still use it. 

 

All that said, Imp is not the issue. More challenging? Well, I personally agree with that, but those that agree with me (us)... do they step back and have a rational hold on the player base? I don't think so.

 

I am fully against getting things easy with no thought, but I seriously doubt that "making hunting hard" would bring in hordes of new players and would even suggest that it would cause player flight. Huge exodus occurred with Xinderoth for example... Something that today is utterly a joke with Quest Hunter and Teleport. But hey...

 

As far as people spouting off about OP pots... it's really the same deal. You need to think about new players that form a new Guild. Not everybody has access to what we do. Hiring a travelling composer is not free. The so-called overabundance of "uber-pots"... is just a ridiculous assumption. Us old-timers have tons... but imagine you going back to the beginning. In ten hunts, any you got would be done. With under 1k stam (or whatever they get nowadays) those pots wouldn't last long. Realize that your player experience is probably NOT the norm and especially realize whatever you have done to get wherever you're at. 

 

Back to DC, In short, I agree on a personal level with the majority of your points, but the conclusion that removing Imp would be a "solution", I don't agree with. Again, all other things constant, a player doesn't even need Imp for the first 240 levels at least. Hey, that's when I was there without everything else that has been introduced to the game. 

 

For me, Imp is not the problem and getting rid of it is not the solution.

[Pythia]

I was looking and looking and looking more for information about Overkill and DW.  I spoke in chat and Trinket found what I was looking for.

 

Overkill is good and works for people that one hit most all if not all the time.... That's not me. :/  .... I do like getting more bang for the buck though.

 

DW is for someone that goes for the juggler starting at the ankles with more than two hits.... That's me... lol  Of course, it does give me a shot at outright killing it.

 

I still use all those buffs if they are affordable for me. lol

 

As mentioned before, if you don't want to use them... don't.  I like them and wish to use them.

 

Fair enough.

Edited by Pythia, 12 November 2015 - 23:50.