37 replies to this topic

[yotwehc]

Agreed I am never going to be able to use 500 odd crystalline fragments yet i need many more common and rare fragments due to how the fragments are consumed. Either allow the converter or allow folk to substitute  say using 5 LE frags instead of 20 common fragments when creating a potion.

Dav - If your proposing an exchange rate that awful, then I see no harm at all... someone was proposing a crazy 10:1 for each tier such that 1 legendary  = 1,000 commons. That will absolutely kill the common demand. I would love to have your crystal frags... I am already dipping into my stash such that I need a crystal event!

 

Chewy even with a converter in place Bry would still have to mosey on down to a lower realm map, simply because getting frags of ANY variety in substantial amounts is next to impossible at our level.

 

Letting people convert downwards would in effect just allow them to use up ALL of the different frags they have accumulated before they have to hunt/buy some more. Wouldn't change the lower players income.

Doom - depends on the exchange rate. If the rares go at 10:1, why would he need to mosey down? and why are you calling him out? isn't that against the rules

Even rares at 2:1 would crush the common market. perhaps only uniques and above should be eligible for conversion... and at awful exchange rates like 3:1 for unique, 4:1 for legendary, etc...

 

regardless, in the whole scheme of things, you'd have to agree that this should be very low on the list of priorities?

 

I'm starting to notice that I keep arguing against my personal best interest. The conversions would benefit me tremendously yet I am fighting against it...

[Mister Doom]

I never mentioned any kind of ratio's. I'd be completely fine with a 1-1 swap.

So long as it was only downwards, it would then at least allow us to use up all of our frags.

 

As for still having to mosey down. I don't think you quite understand. We don't get hardly ANY frags when we hunt, nada bubkiss... It wouldn't actually matter if the rares converted to 10 frags, since we hardly get any of those either. Although I don't see any reason for anything other than a 1-1 straight swap downwards.

Edited by Mister Doom, 18 January 2014 - 22:49.

[andyvince]

While the current system of common items have more value than rare items benefits low levels like myself more. It had always lost me on how HCS assigns common or rare type to gear type items. It’s only when composing feature started we realised how out of proportion common/rare items are.

The current composing formula always Always uses more common fragments than rare. But in fact availability is opposite. Why can’t we tweak the formula for fragment requirement like 0.025 of both common and rare fragments needed per skill point start from s 1?

 

Also it seem like we have more legendary events recently than needed as far as legendary fragments consumption goes… 

[yotwehc]

I never mentioned any kind of ratio's. I'd be completely fine with a 1-1 swap.

So long as it was only downwards, it would then at least allow us to use up all of our frags.

 

As for still having to mosey down. I don't think you quite understand. We don't get hardly ANY frags when we hunt, nada bubkiss... It wouldn't actually matter if the rares converted to 10 frags, since we hardly get any of those either. Although I don't see any reason for anything other than a 1-1 straight swap downwards.

Refer to the OP, that is where the ratio proposition is stated.

 

Thanks for clarifying in global chat. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that you get no drops of ANY KIND from regular mobs aside from the 2 recently added one. I don't understand the reasoning behind trying to shut out the higher levels from what we are enjoying down here at our levels. At my level, it is still rich with drops of all types yet I STILL find myself farming commons. I don't understand why the same couldn't be available for those 1,600+. What's the point of getting 5 frags per drop if there aren't any?

 

I think the problem is not about the converter (Even if you get it, you are still pathetically short of getting anything useful out of it). The root issue is the scarcity/NON-existence of drops for high levels.

 

Now, if by some miracle, HCS decides to start littering the high levels with more drops of all types, then we can start arguing about the converter.

[Darknave]

The 10:1 ratio was just to be used as an example or jumping off point for discussion.  I hadn't really considered the fact that 1 legendary would convert to 1,000 common frags at such a rate and I agree that would definitely skew things in a negative way.

 

As has been brought out by some of the other posts and I do believe I mentioned it in the original post, the root cause of the issue is that rare drop items are much more prevalent than common drop items.  The cows made a great move in only allowing dropped items to be used for composing as ANY of us could hunt, go down to a low level and buy up a crap ton of commons in a shop to break down.  They didn't allow that because they wanted us to actually work for these items.  But when the commons are only in shops for the most part once you get past a certain level... that creates what I truly believe was an unforeseen problem.  I mean really, how many of us thought about the fact that once you get past about level 400 or so that creatures just STOP dropping commons for the most part.

 

As for converting up?  Again it's something that would be useful because I still maintain that very few composers are going to be breaking down super elite items.  I'm not saying they don't get broken down, but I believe (and I could be dead wrong) the value of a super elite item is more than the few frags we might get for them.  Unless you're a super elite hunter in which case you may very well have a glut of those type of items.  The vast majority of players though won't.

 

Again, just changing the type of drops of creatures from rare to common (which imo shouldn't be that huge of an issue in the realm of coding... a simple find and replace query against a database file... assuming that's the way the creature data is stored on the cow servers) would go a long way to correcting the underlying issue.

 

Also... there has been and always will be a surplus of gold in the game.  Requiring a gold cost to convert frags would provide a nifty gold sink as well... just saying!

[yotwehc]

The 10:1 ratio was just to be used as an example or jumping off point for discussion. I hadn't really considered the fact that 1 legendary would convert to 1,000 common frags at such a rate and I agree that would definitely skew things in a negative way.

As has been brought out by some of the other posts and I do believe I mentioned it in the original post, the root cause of the issue is that rare drop items are much more prevalent than common drop items. The cows made a great move in only allowing dropped items to be used for composing as ANY of us could hunt, go down to a low level and buy up a crap ton of commons in a shop to break down. They didn't allow that because they wanted us to actually work for these items. But when the commons are only in shops for the most part once you get past a certain level... that creates what I truly believe was an unforeseen problem. I mean really, how many of us thought about the fact that once you get past about level 400 or so that creatures just STOP dropping commons for the most part.

As for converting up? Again it's something that would be useful because I still maintain that very few composers are going to be breaking down super elite items. I'm not saying they don't get broken down, but I believe (and I could be dead wrong) the value of a super elite item is more than the few frags we might get for them. Unless you're a super elite hunter in which case you may very well have a glut of those type of items. The vast majority of players though won't.

Again, just changing the type of drops of creatures from rare to common (which imo shouldn't be that huge of an issue in the realm of coding... a simple find and replace query against a database file... assuming that's the way the creature data is stored on the cow servers) would go a long way to correcting the underlying issue.

Also... there has been and always will be a surplus of gold in the game. Requiring a gold cost to convert frags would provide a nifty gold sink as well... just saying!

If the ratio to convert was 1:1 then I don't think anyone would have an issue. But thanks to this thread, I think an even bigger issue is what happens at 1600+. The fact that normal mobs besides the 2 don't drop anything is really the bigger issue. I see no motivation getting past 1600. No drops, no new buffs. Aside from the crazies that love the stories in the quest, what is the motivation?

[RebornJedi]

I see no motivation getting past 1600. No drops, no new buffs. Aside from the crazies that love the stories in the quest, what is the motivation?

more gear.. better stats.. the ability to cast MORE buffs due to +5 skill points per level.. being a high number.. new realms.. new creatures.. new relics.. 

[yotwehc]

more gear.. better stats.. the ability to cast MORE buffs due to +5 skill points per level.. being a high number.. new realms.. new creatures.. new relics.. 

more gear? meh... I'm confused as it is.

better stats? meh... me wants damage and based on the last hullabaloo, those are few and far in between.

more buffs? I have unallocated skill points as it is... I guess have more unallocated skill points would be so much more satisfying.

being a higher number? seriously?... you could make me level 1,000,000 - how does that differ much from level 1,600? bigger number? whoppeee doo!

new realms? meh, I can't remember the last one  I was in.

new creatures? meh, quick, what were the last 5 you killed?

new relics? meh, waste of gold

 

There is one you did miss though...

TITANS! that would really be my only motivation to go beyond.

Edited by yotwehc, 20 January 2014 - 21:25.

[michael65]

I like conversion idea, but prefer 8 rare to get one common. Since rare is more common than "common" the ratio should reflect this.

 

As to items to frag,

 

deathspinner amulet via inventing gives affordable SE item for fragmenting.

 

There is a mob that drops a unique item; maybe, there are others.

 

Wait for LE and crystals special events, then go hunting.

 

Pls, check AH.

 

The lack of droppable items for 1600-EOC is a head scratcher and does not sound like the cows, but could be an artist problem since a formula could be used to get stats though not an image.

[MSCruz]

I really do not know if this idea was taken into account before. But how about instead of having different types of fragments we only have FRAGMENTS. So, for example, a common item gives 1 fragment, a rare item 2 fragments, a unique item 3 fragments, and so on. The proportion can be whatever makes sense. Then, in order to compose an item, we just need to have X fragments. This could make things a little more clear and simple, if I am not completely wrong.

 

Because no one buys a rare item, I have almost 7000 rare fragments against 86 unique and 646 commons. The only interesting potion for me is Light Foot. I can easy drop all the new rare items and still be able to make lots of potions.

 

Why is that? Because of a misconception. What is the point of keep fragmenting rare items? I can only see for a simple medal. And why do I need a medal? For nothing. I play the game for fun, a medal means nothing for me, and I believe more players think the same. Maybe some change will make things better.

Edited by MSCruz, 23 January 2014 - 12:05.

[Uralus]

just fragments.....nope not going to happen. The whole point is that there is a difference in cost to get the different fragments. I guess EPICS will later-on also be added to make more epic potions when the need arises.

Go hunt more common creatures if you want common items, or hire a common fragment hunter. There plenty of them advertising. You would just kill their business.

[michael65]

I really do not know if this idea was taken into account before. But how about instead of having different types of fragments we only have FRAGMENTS. So, for example, a common item gives 1 fragment, a rare item 2 fragments, a unique item 3 fragments, and so on. The proportion can be whatever makes sense. Then, in order to compose an item, we just need to have X fragments. This could make things a little more clear and simple, if I am not completely wrong.

 

Because no one buys a rare item, I have almost 7000 rare fragments against 86 unique and 646 commons. The only interesting potion for me is Light Foot. I can easy drop all the new rare items and still be able to make lots of potions.

 

Why is that? Because of a misconception. What is the point of keep fragmenting rare items? I can only see for a simple medal. And why do I need a medal? For nothing. I play the game for fun, a medal means nothing for me, and I believe more players think the same. Maybe some change will make things better.

So 4 common are CLEARLY equal to 1 Legendary?  (No is the answer) And this idea would break the market for Commons. Part of the problem was commons filled the bp but were not worth anything.  In other games (non-HCS), the game would have a merchant to buy the junk drops. Some were asking for that in FS, that is not really a cow design feature for their games.

 

As to my previous post on this thread, 1600-EOC drop rate was issue not the items as I posted. But that makes sense because unless desirable items would just fill bp.  Pls recall some of the complaints before autodrop.

[WWWolf]

I am okay with the conversion as long as it is only downward and the ratio is not too high.  For example, I think 1 rare should be worth 2 Common but no matter how many common fragments you combine, you can't make a rare.  This ratio would make a legendary fragment worth 8 common which I think is reasonable.  If it went up to 1:3 then a Legendary would be worth 27 Common which might be a little too over-powered.

 

Other options that could help to minimize any abuse of this would be charge a conversion fee for every fragment you convert down for every level.  For example, if you have some extra Legendaries and want Common, there would be a fee for going from Legendary to Unique, Unique to Rare, and Rare to Common. 

Another option is you can set up "Conversion Shops" throughout the realms.  This way, players have to go visit the shops to have their fragments converted down.

[Removed18058]

i'd rather see a 1-1 for all but only downwards ... suggested this at the start of composing already but they told me that it was fine the way it is now i don't think this will be changed commons have a better drop rate than rares thus are more common items it's just to find a critter that only drops commons do some research and you shall prosper

[WWWolf]

Yes, a 1:1 (downward only) exchange rate would be tolerable but I would say no more than 1:2.

[Thorsark]

folks, the category of 'rare' doesn't make an item harder to find - it just means it has a higher point total than common at the same level. unique has even more. SE have huge points in the set bonus. Legendary have good base points and good set bonus. rare and unique sets have small set bonus.

[andyvince]

folks, the category of 'rare' doesn't make an item harder to find - it just means it has a higher point total than common at the same level. unique has even more. SE have huge points in the set bonus. Legendary have good base points and good set bonus. rare and unique sets have small set bonus.

Indeed, no difference between drop-rate whether items are common, rare or unique according to Official Fallensword Guide. Drop rate depend on creature types: Normal 7.5%, Champion / Elite 10% / 15%. If creatures drop more than 1 item, drop rate is divided equally amount possible items…

Reason more rare fragments available is not because of drop rate, but because there are more rare item types at higher level…

 

Your explanation of rare has a higher point total than common at the same level make great sense.   Was saying in my post above (#23): ‘...It had always lost me on how HCS assigns common or rare type to gear type items…' now it's clear

Edited by andyvince, 29 January 2014 - 03:54.

[michael65]

Indeed, no difference between drop-rate whether items are common, rare or unique according to Official Fallensword Guide. Drop rate depend on creature types: Normal 7.5%, Champion / Elite 10% / 15%. If creatures drop more than 1 item, drop rate is divided equally amount possible items…

Reason more rare fragments available is not because of drop rate, but because there are more rare item types at higher level…

 

Your explanation of rare has a higher point total than common at the same level make great sense.   Was saying in my post above (#23): ‘...It had always lost me on how HCS assigns common or rare type to gear type items…' now it's clear

 

Is it? The points for both common and rare adds up generally to twice the min level. There are exceptions but when calculating items with negative values seems to hold true, in my limited effort to figure out formula for items.