27 replies to this topic

[Alphamale]

First of all YES another whine thread! (I'll try to be positive)

 

 

If you're lazy read the red things first as they give an indication as what each point is about.

 

1. Stop programming useless stuff like "higher graphics" and stuff like that.

I mean useless atm as their are more urgent matters. E.g when you build a house you don't start with the roof either just cus you want to have a nice roof on your house. A nice roof doesn't mean it ain't gonna colapse.

 

1.1 Yes i'm gonna say it again. The despair nerf, TA nerf and Adding of a sneak emote (Like what're you guys even thinking when you do such things.)

 

1.2 Start communicating about things you change/will change. I do get you don't want to expose bugs before they're fixed which is fine. But for example if you're updating graphics (And no that shouldn't be your priority now)

 

1.3 Do not make changes like that kind of changes on friday 5.45pm (Yes it was around that time just before weekend) I for example am a very critical person which makes me think "Let's do it then so they got an entire weekend to rage over it and they'll forget by monday" Now I don't forget stuff like that and inspecially not when some changes my entire post making it look that i'm just upset while i was disgusted by the update and the prioritising

 

Summary: Use the power you have wisely. Use your resources for things that benefit the game now! You don't want the game to be good in 2 months when most people gave up. You want the people who play now to stay here, which gives you time to improve step by step.

 

 

2. Connect with your players.

 

2.1 Some people like me for example do not like awefull suprises like that, that make my class suffer real bad. And if you'd play the game or have people ingame warning you for it. Those things can be prevented.

 

2.2 Stop programming and play the game. I do understand that you guys want to make the game better but me and some others believe that you would do atleast 5x better if you play the game more instead of just programming stuff. Don't get me wrong I know you guys do alot of work i just feel like it's in vain.

 

Why do I say so? Very simple. You use 5-6hs of programming to make something which if you play the game you'd know that maybe it's not really needed to do that now and maybe a 2h programming change on any given content would be improving the quality of the game over the quantity of content. And therefor be more appreciated.

 

2.3 Host Ingame Events: This might be hard to figure out now but ain't really a priority (I know you're a small team but so is the community) 

 

2.4 Get people on the ground: let people with great ingame experience aid you guys by giving feedback on things you change. Or even create or existing features. Make for example a Youtube channel and let people make "Video content" (Can't believe i'm saying this but... Neon for example did a great job on that. He made loads of content.)  You can easely encourage that by making little contests like as easy as 250 ep or loyalty points. E.g. Make a contest "Fastest dungeon run, Screenshot of Achievements etc etc. Let the communty vote for best screenshot weekly, funniests or biggest achievement (A team finally has the dedication to kill Rumble in arg)

 

This way you create content which you guys (hcs) can use in promoting the game. 

 

Summary of my second point: Unite with us. You need us as bad as we need you to make this game a succes about time we all join same ranks (Including me as i'm very critical but i'll try to work on that )

 

 

3. This brings me to my 3rd and most important point. ADVERTISE

 

3.1 You can either advertise the game yourself or let us do it. Personally i think the second one would be the best for you. Chose a few people of the community to promote the game for you. Give them some ingame benefits ( see point 2.4) If you have some people ingame who can write great feedbacks. Let them make texts to post on MMORPG forums. 

 

3.2 What the f*ck is eldevin syndrom. I can't even remember how I got to this game... This just proofs how much advertisement the game is lacking (might be cus it's basicly still in open beta but still.)

 

3.3 There is alot of MMORPG rating sites out their. Why don't you link one of those "Free eldevin point offers" to a click vote site for MMORPG. Some out theri allow you to vote for a game by just clicking (A daily/weekly vote) This way WE the players can promote/ make the game know out in the huge Jungle of MMORPG.

 

Summary of point 3: Get known out there, try to stand out! Eldevin has the potential.

 

4. Tutorship.

 

4.1 Many games use this and it's proven worthy, when i'm in world chat (And yes I derp around alot their, doing my *Banging my chest like true Alpha male* line) I can't help but notice their is alot of new people all the time. But for them it's hard to get into the game. They have alot of questions and not always an aswer to be provided. This is a point which counts for everyone ingame also. We all want this game to be a succes else we'd given up a long time ago. Yet many people seem to lazy to type 10 words and help the new people. 

 

4.2 For HCS you can probly point some people ingame a rank "Tutor" or something like that let them type in red or something that makes them stand out and advertise it on the site. Maybe add ingame names of those people so they can be reached. Once again you can reward them with some EP/free supporter or something like that (Up for you guys to decide)

 

Summary of point 4: Let players do part of the work for you. Your group of staff is small and some non exploitable stuff can be done by us, without asking to much of our efforts.

 

 

5. Not really a point but worthy of mentioning.

 

People like me who whine and yell the hardest are the people you'll need the most to improve stuff. Not to be cocky in anyway but for example Neon. This guy can whine nearly as bad as I do. But once in a while people like us do have good ideas. And me giving critics doesn't mean i hate you guys. 

I do care for the game and for the staff as I enjoy the game alot but I feel like you're not harvesting the full potential of the game. Therefor I whine and continue to do so. As if I don't whine you won't know what's bothering me .

 

Make another subforum btw where people like Me can whine and you can only enter/read it if you have more than 25-30 posts. This makes sure new players don't get scared of by the critics we players give. 

 

 

Summary of point 5: Let us whine/ rage about things we dislike but hide it for the "new public" it's ment to improve the game not to destroy it or anything alike or bring bad publicity.

 

 

 

This thread is not posted because of the despair nerf you did but for me it was the one thing that drove me off and made me really really start Yelling out for your attention to things ingame. Cus it made me feel as if you have zero feeling with the players playing the game. I know it ain't true but you guys are just to rarely online ingame to know what's up ingame. And as some people told me ingame. You guys are programmers you need people to point issues out to you guys. Yet some issues you have to experience to understand which is why again. Try to spend more time Playing your game rather than creating it. You'll become a way better game creator if you know what's going on ingame.

 

 

I'm sure some people will disaggree with some maybe even most points but I'm 100% sure everyone will feel sympathy for some of the problems/remarks i've points out

 

 

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY : WHICH IS  WHY I KEEP MY CAPSLOCK LOCKED: WE DO APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU GUYS AT HCS DO BUT WE'D LOVE TO FEEL/SEE SOME APPRECIATION FROM YOUR SIDE ALSO. AS WE'RE THE REASON YOUR GAME EXISTS JUST AS WE APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU DID/DO TO KEEP THE GAME WE ALL ENJOY UP AND YOU GUYS TRY TO KEEP IMPROVING.

 

I know it's a huge wall of text and i'm really sorry for it but I really thought someone had to say it because i know alot of us are thinking it.

I know I made alot of typos/ Grammar mistakes but keep in mind English ain't my main language. I did the best i could. So forgive me my "Yoda-like" sentences.

 

 

/Glenn

Edited by Bieeeest, 03 June 2014 - 03:53.

[Oops]

Bravo very well said and yes I read the whole thing I love what you had to say

[xpwaste]

+1

[Alteration]

Finally someone said this.  And yes, we whine a lot, but that's because we love the game.  If we didn't like it so much, we would have left without looking back.  

[Debrutsid]

thank you.  as a LONNNNNNG time HCS player  (wanna say like apr/mar 2004)  this post was well thought out.  Maybe another method you could use would be to have certain players become almost like mods/devs in game.  not sure how much work it would be to create a new test only server (you may have one already.  )  point being that these few "demi-gods"  (forget the term used in MUD's way back when) can help you beta test skill additions.  for free (well no money on your part.  Just ingame currency or similar.)  Even to the point that they could issue one time gift passes, like in a gym membership.  this would be the case, if like for example, not enough of the demi's can be online at the same time.  Most hardcore players (read, people like me who keep playing a dead game (Gothador heheh, still love that game)  who are not made demi's would love to beta test something.  Maybe in the test server, repair is free (just as long as you remember to repair on your way out, or automatically as you exit.)

 

bieeest/Alphamale (i pronounce it like Al-Tamale, with an f :-P) is just trying to suggest things to ensure people don't leave.  I have heard from so many people that Tank class (Templar) is a SOB to level solo, and repair is outrageous.  HE IS NOT ASKING FOR LOWER COSTS, OR HIGHER DPS.  Rather than when you "tweak" (read:nerf) an essential tank skill  it is better to get feedback from those who do more than log in and play for a few minutes at a time. (not saying some devs out there don't have actual game accounts, but HCS has in my experience had issues with actually play testing some updates.  )

 

Anyway, like i said I have been playing HCS games for TEN YEARS!! i am not going anywhere.  I don't plan on it, but if they cannot listen to player feedback here....  Well I may have to cut ties.  I have been waiting for Eldevin since 2005 (i think they actually had it named as far back as 2006-7, but i could be wrong....  wish i had kept some of those old email updates)

 

Well crap,  that sobered me up!!! Andrew M.  you owe me a beer!

[Handyman]

agree fully!

[ernzor]

I agree mostly. These helpers/player mods/mentors/etc whatever they are called should not be given too much power/free stuff (if any at all) as they are still players and will be playing and competing in the game with others.

 

I mentioned something similar in my player chat mods thread a while back. If player mods even had different color text in the World Chat then they could potentially abuse that to their benefit (item sales etc). It needs to be thought out well before implementation what these people can/cannot do.

[Alphamale]

Ofc it should've been thought out good. Which is the entire point of this post. Atm some changes/things are made under pressure of some players who just keep hammering a same idea. 

 

Which is what happend to TA. Hcs wants to do an instant change on it to please the pvpers who yell for something to do. Don't get me wrong it is Great they want to do something like that. Problem was, it wasn't tought out well. Which resulted in it beeing changed. That could've been prevented if they made a "We're thinking about changing x to y" Which would result in a huge shitstorm of people agreeing and disagreeing but in the end it's HCS who has the power to take the decision and then it's easier for people to accept a decission. Because atleast they have the mindset that HCS atleast tried to involve them in the decision.

 

The Speaking in collor thing was just an idea. And making Tutor type things shouldn't be a decission to make in 2 mins I'm sure by half of the posts made on this forums HCS can already see a few people who they can see very suitable for such position or people to keep an eye on and try to see. Okay at first they might spend some time finding a few good ones but if you have 1-2 people in every time zone. Would already cut severly in the amount of posts on forums like "my quest ain't working what's up with that" "Why does x not work when I do Y" "Where can I find x materials" and stuff like that. I also believe it will cut in the amount of tickets send. (And no i'm not solicitating for a position as I for example would be not even close to beeing suited for it as I'm 1. To impulsive. 2. Not the type of person who wants ties to HCS: Because I like to have an uncensored opinion which wouldn't be possible if I get benefits/work in mission of HCS).

 

And basicly you'll always have people who have advantages over skills they posses. I'm talking about for example something as simple as your(ernzor) banner on forums. You're known ingame for crafting all gear if provided the materials and eventually given a tip. Which could also be seen as an advantage over some crafters who probly do same but don't have the reputation you have for making them. (Just example)

 

Best example OCD this potion shop idea. It's genious, I mean that's the kind of guys this game needs. It's creative and basicly creates an AH made by people (just for Potions tho) But still. And I'm sure their is 10 guys just like that who would if given the opportunity would do great in adding to the gaming experience. 

 

I know I might be asking much and it is very possible that the ideal way is probly somewhere in the middle or totally out of the vision I have but still. That's the beauty of the age we live in. Everyone can say whatever the f*ck they want to say. (aslong as you're not intending to hurt people that is)

 

/Glenn

Edited by Bieeeest, 03 June 2014 - 06:26.

[Debrutsid]

well (and i haven't fully read tamale's last post yet, but NO ITEMS if any would be rewarded to "demi's" as i called them. would be transferable.   I say if any items are rewarded,  why not make it a cow vanity suit? 

 

the speaking in color thing is a GREAT idea.  Red for devs, blue for Mentors/Tutors.   as far as ep/rewards for "tutors" there is massive potential for abuse there.  can;t think of any ideas there.  (also tutors ONLY can turn off color in SB if they like just want to log in and level.dungeon run....

[Debrutsid]

I would love having a tutor position, but at the same time I am not going to be dignified about it.  I am a silly b^&@$@d  and sometimes crass, but never intentionally.  I tend to make friends with all manner of people, and i have no problem helping newbies.  maybe one idea, here.  giving reduced shop costs to tutors for minor things such as group summon?  10g is A HELL of a lot for a new player to spend.  I mean honestly, mining is productive, and the best way to make money low level, but if we just have 100 new players all trying to sell coal, and no one is buying?  the economy will take a nosedive...

 

Hell i have given away group summon to a few people.

[xpwaste]

as far as chat mods go, don't give them any power.

Just make them the voice of the people. collecting ideas and suggestion also whines , testing out the new stuff and reporting back to the players. That is all the power that needs to be given.

If i were one , and was given the opportunity to test stuff on behalf of people and actually got a say in the devs decision making that would be enough power to me. I also talked to this about a dev and they said they had to remove such moderators from other games as they abused power.

 

The right to speak and being heard is a power enough for me if you know what i mean.

I don't need free stuff or perks .... just want to be heard by the people for the people.

 

And about test server , i've said this about 2-3 times now. Making a test server where everyone could implement the new stuff would be awsome.

The only thing needed to be done is that test server should in NO WAY AFFECT THE REAL GAME SERVES.

 

It would be a totally different server, what happens there, stays there. this would allow the devs the power to give in game curreny and real cash bought currency to test out the new stuff to the full extent.

Edited by xpwaste, 03 June 2014 - 07:17.

[Susej]

Yep great post well said.

 

4.0 -The mentor idea has been suggested over and over again and not even a "we will think on it" has been givem....

 

2.3 The event idea well Fallensword has sooo many events i don't know why we cant either.

 

2.2 Stop programming and play the game.( I think the highest level is L3fty ) completly agree, PhurieDae is a tank and if continues to tank will find that tanking is not that simple and requires good reflexes and with one less tool, tanking requires more reflexes still.

 

3.2 - i came to play eldevin cause i am a fallensword player and got like one thousand pm asking me to try eldevin...

 

 

Thx for th free OCD marketing.

 

Regards

[Linkondrugs]

None of this will happen how many months are we going to wait??

[Alteration]

cool, a response 

Edited by Alteration, 03 June 2014 - 11:04.

[sdcrichy]

2.3                if they came up and said that they was working on events and not much else, you lot would moan about them not doing other stuff. lol some ideas you said are good, but items like the despair ( it was broken ) bug needed to be fixed.

[Alteration]

cool, a response

Edited by Alteration, 03 June 2014 - 11:03.

[PhurieDae]

Okay, I'm going to respond to the things here that I'm able to. I'm sorry if you're feeling like we don't care, but we DO respond to the forums, and frequently. We're not able to spend hours writing back and forth and sometimes ideas are suggested which are too complicated for us to make a decision on without a lot of meeting and discussion, which takes time away from priority work. Plus, imagine the time it takes you guys to write out a detailed post and then imagine the time it takes us to read, consider, discuss and then give a thoughtful response. So that's why we can't reply to absolutely everything.

 

I understand these recent changes have taken you guys by surprise, and caused a lot of frustration. Please believe me when I say we REALLY didn't expect such a reaction and didn't mean to cause anyone so much upset.

 

 

1. Stop programming useless stuff like "higher graphics" and stuff like that.

I mean useless atm as their are more urgent matters. E.g when you build a house you don't start with the roof either just cus you want to have a nice roof on your house. A nice roof doesn't mean it ain't gonna colapse.

 

The information we've gathered about the game indicates that a LOT of people leave the game very early because 1) They struggle with getting Java to work and have performance issues right off the bat and 2) They are put off by the restricted camera angle and graphics. The hardware renderer and downloadable client are therefore essential to fixing this early drop off, getting more people into the game and engaged, which will help to fill out the community and benefit everybody. This is why it's a priority for us. We don't have all of our coders tied up working on them, but those that are will not be moving onto other things until these are done - which will not be long now.

 

1.1 Yes i'm gonna say it again. The despair nerf, TA nerf and Adding of a sneak emote (Like what're you guys even thinking when you do such things.)

 

Despair was fixed, not nerfed. We honestly didn't expect that tanks had been relying on it so much, and now we know we're looking into how we can make up for it. 

 

TA, again, was a fix. The instant respawning of resources was a mistake and far too tasty for bots. However, a lot of you seem to be forgetting that we're not finished with TA yet - remember there is still a new boss to go in there. Anakiro has written a more in depth post on both these [topic='http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65299']here[/topic]

 

We've already said the Sneak emote was added by accident here and we're trying to sort it out today. Unfortunately it seems like it was done by a member of staff who is spending a few days moving house - that's just a piece of bad luck! But we'll let you know more as soon as we've got it sorted out.

 

1.3 Do not make changes like that kind of changes on friday 5.45pm (Yes it was around that time just before weekend)

 

It was, but again - we just thought they were fixes and genuinely didn't expect such a reaction! We avoid making major changes before a weekend in case they contain bugs we need to fix immediately, but small fixes generally don't cause a problem. Obviously this is an exception.

 

2.1 Some people like me for example do not like awefull suprises like that, that make my class suffer real bad. And if you'd play the game or have people ingame warning you for it. Those things can be prevented.

 

We're going to try and give everyone a bit more notice before we make changes to things that might affect their gameplay. We won't always be able to give you a full list of patch notes fully in advance (sometimes things just get noticed and fixed at the last minute) but we will be making an effort to keep you all informed about what we're working on. Mojawk and Cowboy are already pretty good at letting you know our aims and targets.

 

2.2 Stop programming and play the game. I do understand that you guys want to make the game better but me and some others believe that you would do atleast 5x better if you play the game more instead of just programming stuff. Don't get me wrong I know you guys do alot of work i just feel like it's in vain.

 

This is a tricky one. We DO play the game, and while none of us have made it to top level on the life server, we have our own client and server which we use to test higher level content as best we can. However, the fact is we just do not have the time to play every single aspect of the game as thoroughly as we'd like, and players will always find new ways to approach things that we don't think of. Being a top level, dedicated MMORPG player is practically a full time job in itself and we all already work full-time (and then some). 

 

2.3 Host Ingame Events: This might be hard to figure out now but ain't really a priority (I know you're a small team but so is the community) 

2.4 Get people on the ground: let people with great ingame experience aid you guys by giving feedback on things you change. Or even create or existing features. Make for example a Youtube channel and let people make "Video content" (Can't believe i'm saying this but... Neon for example did a great job on that. He made loads of content.)  You can easely encourage that by making little contests like as easy as 250 ep or loyalty points. E.g. Make a contest "Fastest dungeon run, Screenshot of Achievements etc etc. Let the communty vote for best screenshot weekly, funniests or biggest achievement (A team finally has the dedication to kill Rumble in arg)

 

We're currently working on a few ideas for this and we'll keep you posted with what we come up with! Keeping the community engaged IS a priority for us, especially since the events we've done in the past have been a big hit.

 

I really like the idea of having fan content that we can feature on the website and these are great ideas for contests/events to run. Having community voting would be pretty good too!

 

3.1 You can either advertise the game yourself or let us do it. Personally i think the second one would be the best for you. Chose a few people of the community to promote the game for you. Give them some ingame benefits ( see point 2.4) If you have some people ingame who can write great feedbacks. Let them make texts to post on MMORPG forums. 

 

There's absolutely nothing stopping our players from giving us reviews and feedback on other sites, but there's something pretty iffy about actually paying them to give us good reviews - don't you think? I definitely agree there's something in giving players rewards for making videos/screenshots/participating in competitions but that's a little different. This is just my personal opinion - the rest of the team may want to chip in on this.

 

4. Tutorship

 

As has been mentioned, this has come up before and the reason we haven't given any concrete response is that honestly, we don't have one. It's an idea with merit, and certainly other games have used it with success but it's also a difficult one to manage. Appointing tutors, making them visible to the community, choosing what they can and can't do, figuring out how to reward them, and how we'd monitor them to make sure they aren't abusing their position (just off the top of my head) requires a lot of planning and ongoing management on our part and at the moment it's not something we're ready to get into.

[HuMoR]

lol give me rank tutor for free...its a game,doesn't really require a reward to help people.

[Alphamale]

First off. I like to thank you for this response as you took the time to answer it and give some feedback onto it.

 

 

The review part I kinda ment let someone make a guide type thing explaining the game with some screenshots etc maybe even let some people make some fanart/ Screen shots explaining the game and then posting a Game review on those sites. I didn't mean to pay for a good recension but like a review. Telling potential players what they can expect from the game. How the game works and so on.

 

One of the most important things is the extra forum. I don't know if it would be hard to fix it so that once you hit 25 posts (or something alike) You can see another forum. As I will continue to point out ideas and remarks. And I do realise that my whining might turn away some people from actually trying (I said it before, enormous gaming potential) 

 

For the game play. Maybe i'll try and find a tool to record some of the dungeon runs so you can see how some warsins affect dungeon runs and aggro maintain. As you'll see that most my aggro spells are on a constant cooldown. And I for example still have aggro issues with some warsins. (Which might help you guys in understanding some of the current templar issues)

 

And I think their is a missunderstanding I do realise you guys care for us as. If you didn't you'd be out of bussiness pretty soon . But I ment that some things you do make it look like you're not caring or atleast not as much as you should.

 

As I said many players ingame are really keen to help and aid with the progress for the game. (Feedback/ maybe even dungeon recording)

 

I'm concidering opening a Twitch Account again so I can start Streaming. Not sure how this will affect my connection to servers.

 

Question: Do you maybe have any idea why Worldbosses lagg so badly btw? Is it just the many people in small area or is it some coding who ain't keeping up with input (player input like spells movement/attaks etc)

 

 

Once again thanks for the response. I really appreciate it that it ain't a "We're monitorring"-type answer but some actual feedback and some what's up chat telling us what you're up to and the explaining of nerf/fix of despair.

 

 

 

/Glenn

Edited by Bieeeest, 03 June 2014 - 11:11.

[xpwaste]

as far as chat mods go, don't give them any power.

Just make them the voice of the people. collecting ideas and suggestion also whines , testing out the new stuff and reporting back to the players. That is all the power that needs to be given.

If i were one , and was given the opportunity to test stuff on behalf of people and actually got a say in the devs decision making that would be enough power to me. I also talked to this about a dev and they said they had to remove such moderators from other games as they abused power.

 

The right to speak and being heard is a power enough for me if you know what i mean.

I don't need free stuff or perks .... just want to be heard by the people for the people.

 

And about test server , i've said this about 2-3 times now. Making a test server where everyone could implement the new stuff would be awsome.

The only thing needed to be done is that test server should in NO WAY AFFECT THE REAL GAME SERVES.

 

It would be a totally different server, what happens there, stays there. this would allow the devs the power to give in game curreny and real cash bought currency to test out the new stuff to the full extent.

This. about the mentors thing.