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PvP is DEAD???


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#41 wazzimoto

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 22:57

Wow... apologizing wazzi then repeating the same thing you just apologized for.... just wow. You do not have 3 guilds after you. You changed it later to 'alot' but your original post said it was only about 15 players. These are friends defending friends. Get yours involved too.

was apologizing for "how i went about it"


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#42 Calista

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 23:24

OK then. Thanks for editing the foul words out of your posts and for apologizing for it. Not many are capable of that kinda step. Maybe we can have a civil conversation that at the very least can help both sides see where the other is coming from

 


#43 Raku

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:18

@ Yotwehc

What 2 less pvp'ers? W has pvp'd a while now. He won't stop. He makes a point to go after the same groups everytime. P slowed her hitting because she no longer has the back up she used freely just a few short months ago. But she won't stop pvping either. These guys are seasoned. They know the drill.

As a PvP player, your post referrs to me as being part of a gang. Are you serious? It's a PvP game! All I'm doing is playing. I'm sick to death of the nasty insults. I'm not a bully. Im not in a gang. I don't even hit random people for gold. But in this game I will fight for my friends and allies. That doesn't make me evil. It means I am playing this area of the game.


We're not discouraging players from PvP. We are teaching them the ropes which includes losing levels. They need the reality of it or what's the point?

Multiple players have used that same 'I'll lose levels when at eoc because then levels don't matter'. That exact thing leads to guild wars. Because when YOU come after our players and try to use us to self delevel we have strategies in place. Like a guild war to get the xp from your guildies who will care. Seem harsh? So is thinking you can put our people under attack and we're gonna do nothing. Every action has a reaction. Go ahead and start it. Many have in the past. But no being upset later that you don't like our tactics or didn't think we would go there. To defend our own there is little we won't do.

Your not a bully or gang, yet you talk about going after players in a persons guild who care about their exp, because a player uses you to delevel instead of going after said player. So are these players you and yours go after involved in this already? If they are not involved then why go after them? So you can get what you want by attacking said players? I wonder this because these very actions can be and are associated with bullying. 

 

Having said that, if these said players are involved in this players actions then so be it. Also by no means I am saying or calling you a bully simply expressing a point of view. 



#44 yotwehc

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 02:47

@ Yotwehc

What 2 less pvp'ers? W has pvp'd a while now. He won't stop. He makes a point to go after the same groups everytime. P slowed her hitting because she no longer has the back up she used freely just a few short months ago. But she won't stop pvping either. These guys are seasoned. They know the drill.

As a PvP player, your post referrs to me as being part of a gang. Are you serious? It's a PvP game! All I'm doing is playing. I'm sick to death of the nasty insults. I'm not a bully. Im not in a gang. I don't even hit random people for gold. But in this game I will fight for my friends and allies. That doesn't make me evil. It means I am playing this area of the game.


We're not discouraging players from PvP. We are teaching them the ropes which includes losing levels. They need the reality of it or what's the point?

Multiple players have used that same 'I'll lose levels when at eoc because then levels don't matter'. That exact thing leads to guild wars. Because when YOU come after our players and try to use us to self delevel we have strategies in place. Like a guild war to get the xp from your guildies who will care. Seem harsh? So is thinking you can put our people under attack and we're gonna do nothing. Every action has a reaction. Go ahead and start it. Many have in the past. But no being upset later that you don't like our tactics or didn't think we would go there. To defend our own there is little we won't do.

Somehow I see both players doing less PVP especially against those in the mighty guilds... W won't stop but I think he will against whomever he was trying to go 1 on 1 with so technically, he is stopping some. You admit P has slowed. Indeed... and this is about PVP dying right? so job well done.

 

Gangs by merriam webster "a group of people who are friends and who do things together" If you aren't part of a gang, then so be it :) I'm definitely not implying the alternate meanings in the dictionary as that would be grossly incorrect.

 

When someone does less PVP after your lessons, to me that's discouraging... we can agree to disagree.

 

I look forward to seeing your strategies. Alas, it will be at least a year. I don't think we will be convincing each other of anything. Thanks for your responses.



#45 sweetlou

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:08

Your not a bully or gang, yet you talk about going after players in a persons guild who care about their exp, because a player uses you to delevel instead of going after said player. So are these players you and yours go after involved in this already? If they are not involved then why go after them? So you can get what you want by attacking said players? I wonder this because these very actions can be and are associated with bullying. 

 

Having said that, if these said players are involved in this players actions then so be it. Also by no means I am saying or calling you a bully simply expressing a point of view. 

This isn't hard to understand. You are exacerbated when players in a guild are targeted for one guildmate's actions. Each player chooses with whom they are associated such as in a guild in this game. If players choose to remain in the same guild with an offending player, they are equally as responsible and will usually remain targets until the activity ceases or players in the guild disassociate themselves from the offending player, for example by kicking the player or others leaving the guild. Guildmates are not innocent. They harbor the offender. Guilds are an entity. One player can affect the others. The intention of a guild is for mutual benefit but this is an example where one is disadvantaged.


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#46 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 03:20

Why people care so much about levels? There is a pot of gold in the end of that EOC rainbow? Geezz...

 


Edited by yghorbeviahn, 09 February 2015 - 03:22.


#47 yotwehc

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:06

Why people care so much about levels? There is a pot of gold in the end of that EOC rainbow? Geezz...

 

That's a good question... but somehow people send their whole guild after other people because of it... go figure...



#48 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:35

That's a good question... but somehow people send their whole guild after other people because of it... go figure...

If the target of a war buy PvP Protection we will keep hitting anyway, don't matter too much if levels are taken or not, just to show we are beating them.

If someone is willing to try PvP, that person should be ready to lose levels, simple math.



#49 Calista

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:48

Your not a bully or gang, yet you talk about going after players in a persons guild who care about their exp, because a player uses you to delevel instead of going after said player. So are these players you and yours go after involved in this already? If they are not involved then why go after them? So you can get what you want by attacking said players? I wonder this because these very actions can be and are associated with bullying. 

 

Having said that, if these said players are involved in this players actions then so be it. Also by no means I am saying or calling you a bully simply expressing a point of view. 

 

 

That's a good question. But let me say straight out before I explain the logic here that I'm not trying to make anyone agree with me. I don't expect people to think our way of doing things is the only way. I'm simply trying to explain the other side of it to people who view us as 'bullies' and 'gangs'. I think it would go a long way if people would understand that we're not out to 'kill' people. We're defending our friends and allies agrressively. It works for some of us. It won't work for others.

 

 

If Player A  decides they are bored and want to lose some levels, they have options. They can lose to some SE's and the xp melts away. Unfortunately, many of them decide it'll be fun to 'poke' the pvp players to get a reaction. So they go after our members, yes pvp players,  but they go after our guild. Now, we can and will drop Player A to screw with their sets. But, since Player A wants to lose levels and is going after our members and friends to do it,  taking levels from Player A isn't going to get them to stop. So the next step is to do the same as Player A and go after their guild. Hence, a guild war.  Only Player A's guild isn't going to be okay with losing levels because Player A is bored. So they can put some pressure on Player A to knock it off.  That usually works eventually.

 

Saying the members of Player A's guild are innocent might be true.  So are our members that Player A is going after in boredom.  Every single player in a guild makes a conscious decision to join the guild they join. When you join a guild, you take the good and the bad that comes along with it,  like other members. So a guild is responsible for even their problem players.  You signed up to be a part of that guild, so you are as much involved as your player A is.


 


#50 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 04:54

Just to use me for example, I'm not involved on those hits, I was busy on RL and had no time for it, but I'm here talking about it defending people who tryes to offend my guild, that is how we choose a guild, a family, I'll defending TED and my friends everytime I can, even on forum.



#51 Calista

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 05:17

Words indeed... Job well done... We are practically to the point where only the sheep and gangs are left. 2 less PVP'rs and it's their problem.

 

Help me with my list so the new PVP players are fully aware of all the angles and reality. Some say it's active and alive, others say it's dead. I just don't see it succeeding in it's current form as you disillusion folks who do want to play that aspect in an honorable fashion. I intend to play that aspect at EOC when levels don't matter anymore and I get to annoy other players whilst they help me delevel :)

 

Umm, I never said anything about pvp dying. I have hope now to see it at least somewhat restored to what it use to be. Though we'll have to see what final decision HCS comes out with.

LOL Okay, I'll pretend that you meant something positive when you referred to sheep and gangs.

Do you expect us to take all newbie pvp players and lock them in safe room while they go out hitting other players? Are we suppose to support 'lying' or deceive them about the risks they face every time they hit someone so their feelings don't get hurt? If you are going to be involved in pvp, then you need to know the good and the bad, right from the start. Some people can handle it and love it. Others will find that pvp isn't for them. They gotta figure it out one way or another. Shouldn't they have all the facts?

I'll look forward to seeing where things end up a year from now.   4chsmu1.gif


 


#52 yotwehc

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 05:46

Umm, I never said anything about pvp dying. I have hope now to see it at least somewhat restored to what it use to be. Though we'll have to see what final decision HCS comes out with.

..stuff..

I'll look forward to seeing where things end up a year from now.   4chsmu1.gif

The topic and OP is about PVP dying? I hope they don't change it too much else I won't be able to exploit :(

 

I'm hoping a year... but they keep moving the goal posts... :)



#53 Raku

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 06:21

This isn't hard to understand. You are exacerbated when players in a guild are targeted for one guildmate's actions. Each player chooses with whom they are associated such as in a guild in this game. If players choose to remain in the same guild with an offending player, they are equally as responsible and will usually remain targets until the activity ceases or players in the guild disassociate themselves from the offending player, for example by kicking the player or others leaving the guild. Guildmates are not innocent. They harbor the offender. Guilds are an entity. One player can affect the others. The intention of a guild is for mutual benefit but this is an example where one is disadvantaged.

Your standard of guilty by association is wrong. This would be no different then saying all members of a guild are bullies when just one member is doing the bullying. Yes one player can affect the way an entire guild is looked at but, this by no means makes another person guilty and require action to be taken against them. This targeting of players who have done nothing wrong to force/intimidate/coerce your way/objective can be and or is viewed as bullying.  

 

That's a good question. But let me say straight out before I explain the logic here that I'm not trying to make anyone agree with me. I don't expect people to think our way of doing things is the only way. I'm simply trying to explain the other side of it to people who view us as 'bullies' and 'gangs'. I think it would go a long way if people would understand that we're not out to 'kill' people. We're defending our friends and allies agrressively. It works for some of us. It won't work for others.

 

 

If Player A  decides they are bored and want to lose some levels, they have options. They can lose to some SE's and the xp melts away. Unfortunately, many of them decide it'll be fun to 'poke' the pvp players to get a reaction. So they go after our members, yes pvp players,  but they go after our guild. Now, we can and will drop Player A to screw with their sets. But, since Player A wants to lose levels and is going after our members and friends to do it,  taking levels from Player A isn't going to get them to stop. So the next step is to do the same as Player A and go after their guild. Hence, a guild war.  Only Player A's guild isn't going to be okay with losing levels because Player A is bored. So they can put some pressure on Player A to knock it off.  That usually works eventually.

 

Saying the members of Player A's guild are innocent might be true.  So are our members that Player A is going after in boredom.  Every single player in a guild makes a conscious decision to join the guild they join. When you join a guild, you take the good and the bad that comes along with it,  like other members. So a guild is responsible for even their problem players.  You signed up to be a part of that guild, so you are as much involved as your player A is.

I understand your logic and the strategy. My questions were more to help illustrate a point of view. I hope your explanation helps others to understand your side as well, but it goes both ways. No body should have a problem with you or others defending their friends and allies. It is the manner in which it is done.  I'll say this again. This targeting of players who have done nothing wrong to force/intimidate/coerce your way/objective can be and or is viewed as bullying. 

 

Using your example, Player B has options as well. Yet Player B and company decided to attack/involve other players that have done nothing to them. Now if Player B had others than just Player A attack them in defense of Player A then attacking those players should/would be understandable. 

 

You have every right to defend yourself against Player A but why should you attack innocent players just because you view them as guilty by association. A guild should be responsible for its members but up to a certain degree as a guild does not have complete control of an individual player. 

 

 

Just to use me for example, I'm not involved on those hits, I was busy on RL and had no time for it, but I'm here talking about it defending people who tryes to offend my guild, that is how we choose a guild, a family, I'll defending TED and my friends everytime I can, even on forum.

No worries here. Defending your guild, family, or friends is fine. the manner in how it is done is where the problem comes in. 



#54 sweetlou

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 07:00

Your standard of guilty by association is wrong. This would be no different then saying all members of a guild are bullies when just one member is doing the bullying. Yes one player can affect the way an entire guild is looked at but, this by no means makes another person guilty and require action to be taken against them. This targeting of players who have done nothing wrong to force/intimidate/coerce your way/objective can be and or is viewed as bullying.  

 

I understand your logic and the strategy. My questions were more to help illustrate a point of view. I hope your explanation helps others to understand your side as well, but it goes both ways. No body should have a problem with you or others defending their friends and allies. It is the manner in which it is done.  I'll say this again. This targeting of players who have done nothing wrong to force/intimidate/coerce your way/objective can be and or is viewed as bullying. 

 

Using your example, Player B has options as well. Yet Player B and company decided to attack/involve other players that have done nothing to them. Now if Player B had others than just Player A attack them in defense of Player A then attacking those players should/would be understandable. 

 

You have every right to defend yourself against Player A but why should you attack innocent players just because you view them as guilty by association. A guild should be responsible for its members but up to a certain degree as a guild does not have complete control of an individual player. 

Why is my guilt by association wrong? In fact, you have the duty and capability to end the aggression of Player A(in the example) by kicking them from the guild. It is the wisest choice you have if you can't control your guildmate. Until you do I can and will attack every player I can in your guild until the offending actions are stopped. I would be the respondent to the initial aggression. It has been already explained to you how as a guild, and the leaders especially have the duty and capability to protect the other members. If you choose not to support Player A you need to get rid of the offender or fight with the rest of your guild. Every in-game action allows me to seek this type of remedy. What makes you think you and the other players are immune? Because YOU didn't start anything? You harbor a rogue player. Cut off the diseased part. Why keep them?

 

Edit for spelling and pointing out the obvious - that if the offending Player A would no longer be in the guild all attacks would stop.


Edited by sweetlou, 09 February 2015 - 07:12.

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#55 SlntScream

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 07:24

Some people seem to be  confused at the reason for wazzi's frustrated rants, so let me clear a few things up.

 

Player A; in this case is "Pvp player" from a "Pvp guild" ... randomly making unprovoked 100 stamina attacks against players from Guild B.

Guild B is not a "Pvp guild" but does have some players who enjoy pvp.. so, in the spirit of protecting their members, they dropped Payer A 5 levels. Great, right?!

Player A; instead of taking his well deserved spanking, not only retaliated against all the smashers, but outsourced his delevel parties to his allied "Pvp guilds"

 

I find it funny that the players who say they're not afraid to lose levels, are the first ones to call in the cavalry when they do.

 

Now, maybe it's just me, because I still pvp by the old standards, but I would think that if you did something to deserve a spanking.. you take that spanking respectfully and carry on. Retaliating against the owner of the cookie jar after YOU got caught with your hand in it, is completely unjustified, no?  We understand that it is every guild's right to defend their members, but to what end? What about when that member you are defending caused the problem in the first place? And when did we Pvpers start smashing recklessly, not caring for the reason? Unfortunately some players know this, and will go and stir up some trouble.. get the spankings they deserve.. then play the victim to get help from friends

 

In short, the issue is not that Guild B lost levels.. but the reason why, and the actions of Player A. Guild B acted with decency and stepped up to defend it's members.. leading to a completely unjustified response from Player A. Refering to those unwritten rules that Pvpers play by.. Situations like this skew what's acceptable and what's not.

 

Also, statements like "teaching them a lesson" and "there are certain people you just don't hit" are ridiculous and egotistical, they lend to the reason people can use words like "gang" and "bullies" ... No one's perfect and no one's untouchable. Have some humility.


Edited by SlntScream, 09 February 2015 - 07:41.

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#56 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 08:00

But those smashs was occuring in game, for both sides, and everyone was hitting, Guild B and Guild A+Allies, guild B could have find more friends to hit too, would be more hits, and the game goes that way, none 'hidden PvP rule' was broken in that case, if Guild B had said 'Ok, time to stop, we need to come back to level up', I'm 100% sure Guild A+Allies would finish the bounties they still had and the thing would ended there.

The problem is with offenses and dirty language accusing players as bullies, c'mon, that is just some XP taken, that will not ruin your game, but PvPers will not say it at first place, they will not fear losing their levels, and the no-PvPer guild will, if the Guild B didn't want to lose more levels, just stop hitting and there will be no more bounties to smash, if they keep hitting, more 5 levels drop will come, simple.

And that's normal, that happens a lot on the game, for me the prior concern was about players coming to the Forums to argue about that, what's the point anyway?



#57 SlntScream

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:03

Wazzi realised this was not an acceptable way of ranting his frustration, he was angry and drinking and has already issued an apology for starting this thread.

 

Guild B did stop hitting after proving their point and taking levels from Player A. They were left shaking their heads at what they felt was as inappropriate response. Player A deserved that spanking and therefore should've taken it with a grain of salt. Calling in friends to smash the smashers would've been just as inappropriate, and resulted in an escalation to war, which was never their intent.

 

If you're suggesting they should've never hit back, and just lay down and let Player A repeatedly 100 stam their members, that's silly.


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#58 vastilos

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 10:10

Last I checked PvP attacks have risks. If you want risk free PvP, there's this thing called GvG. Oh, and in GvG, you get 25 free PvP hits that cannot be bountied. Otherwise don't cry when you get bountied for your PvP hit.


Edited by vastilos, 09 February 2015 - 10:11.


#59 3JS

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 11:40

Why do I do this to myself.....

 

Anyway, here's my humble opinion, coming from a player who plays the game every way that is offered.

 

If you click the attack button, there's a chance you'll end up on the bounty board. Obvious, right? Some people don't think so. When you end up on the bounty board, sometimes a few people, who happen to be virtual friends, accept this bounty, and you may lose 5 levels. Game mechanics at work, as it was intended to be played.

 

Now, here's where it gets tough.

 

The player who just lost 5 levels...He now has at least 4 targets to put on the bounty board. So, considering that turnabout is fair play, this player gets a few of his virtual friends to take these bounties, and said friends drop them all 5 levels as well. Now, considering there was no trash talk involved, this is usually the end of it. Everyone moves on, has a few laughs, and at the end of the day, sometimes a new virtual friendship is born. This happens, honestly, at least 75% of the time. Say what you want about the terrible PvP guys if you must, but they really aren't that bad. 

 

The downfall of a good time...

 

Somewhere along the way, it's almost inevitable these days that one of the players involved will get their virtual feelings hurt. They begin flexing their little tiny keyboard muscles in PM's, sending in tickets, reporting bio's, and generally being a pain in everyone's hind parts. This is where the dark side of PvP comes out. Now, this player enters themselves on an invisible list. Players on this list will forever be smashed at every opportunity. Then the players doing the smashing get labeled as things that they aren't. 

 

PvP players rarely start this, mind you. The problem lies in the fact that sometimes people bite off more than they can chew, and they don't like that feeling. 

 

Another thing to consider is this. The game is designed to block you from doing things that aren't allowed. So, common sense would tell you that everything that is constantly being complained about in this forum regarding PvP....is in the games design. Learn to defend against it. Lord knows that with all the newer, nuclear buffs out you should be able to.

 

With all this being said, I wasn't around this weekend. I have no idea what transpired, but this response fits almost every anti PvP thread ever made.

 

The reason I wasn't around? I was enjoying time with my family. I suggest that some of you do the same every once in a while.  Erildath is make believe, after all.



#60 yotwehc

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:34

Why do I do this to myself.....

Anyway, here's my humble opinion, coming from a player who plays the game every way that is offered.

If you click the attack button, there's a chance you'll end up on the bounty board. Obvious, right? Some people don't think so. When you end up on the bounty board, sometimes a few people, who happen to be virtual friends, accept this bounty, and you may lose 5 levels. Game mechanics at work, as it was intended to be played.

Now, here's where it gets tough.

The player who just lost 5 levels...He now has at least 4 targets to put on the bounty board. So, considering that turnabout is fair play, this player gets a few of his virtual friends to take these bounties, and said friends drop them all 5 levels as well. Now, considering there was no trash talk involved, this is usually the end of it. Everyone moves on, has a few laughs, and at the end of the day, sometimes a new virtual friendship is born. This happens, honestly, at least 75% of the time. Say what you want about the terrible PvP guys if you must, but they really aren't that bad.

The downfall of a good time...

Somewhere along the way, it's almost inevitable these days that one of the players involved will get their virtual feelings hurt. They begin flexing their little tiny keyboard muscles in PM's, sending in tickets, reporting bio's, and generally being a pain in everyone's hind parts. This is where the dark side of PvP comes out. Now, this player enters themselves on an invisible list. Players on this list will forever be smashed at every opportunity. Then the players doing the smashing get labeled as things that they aren't.

PvP players rarely start this, mind you. The problem lies in the fact that sometimes people bite off more than they can chew, and they don't like that feeling.

Another thing to consider is this. The game is designed to block you from doing things that aren't allowed. So, common sense would tell you that everything that is constantly being complained about in this forum regarding PvP....is in the games design. Learn to defend against it. Lord knows that with all the newer, nuclear buffs out you should be able to.

With all this being said, I wasn't around this weekend. I have no idea what transpired, but this response fits almost every anti PvP thread ever made.

The reason I wasn't around? I was enjoying time with my family. I suggest that some of you do the same every once in a while. Erildath is make believe, after all.

Somehow I don't think Author is anti-pvp. It's been well established in this thread that he will continue albeit not against the certain player A nor probably anyone else in the guild. Not sure what message you are trying to convey aside from game rules are established and suck it up you losers and get a life. This thread is interesting as it pits those who love the old honorable system of pvp against those who advocate anything goes under current game rules. Essentially it's pvp vs pvp. Not your typical thread. One+ more year and I join the drama :)


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