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'BLOOD' a possible idea for Grims intended removal of xp loss from pvp.


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#1 Mister Doom

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:40

So here's my thought on the current update to the pvp system:


Add in a new PVPXP system called BLOOD in game, that functions similar to the current regular xp system.

BLOOD will be gained and lost via regular pvp attacks.
Your pvp level will go up in a similar fashion to your regular level, unlocking certain things as you get higher and higher.
This will also allow for some new top rated sections, best pvp player, best monthly pvp player etc etc.

 

  • Losses and gains would obviously raise and lower your bloodlevel depending on the outcomes.
  • They would also count on the BB which would no longer deal with regular xp, only BLOOD.

 

My idea on how BLOOD would work would be something along these lines:

 

  • Ranges would match the current pvp ladder ranges.

 

  • Everyone would begin at zero BLOOD, you would need to be active (or extremely good at defense) in order to advance your pvp level.

 

  • When attacking someone with 0 BLOOD, you would gain BLOOD at an extremely reduced rate. (To be decided)

 

  • When attacking a player with the same or higher bloodlevel you get 100% of standard BLOOD.

 

  •  When Attacking people with a lower bloodlevel you get (Their bloodlevel / Your bloodlevel) * 100%.

 

  • Amounts of BLOOD would build in a 'current' counter each month.

 

  • The end of the months BLOOD total would directly affect how many tokens you will receive.

 

  • Their will be a 'lifetime' BLOOD counter that will be used to determine your rankings on various 'top rated' lists.

 

Successful combat by attacker:

  • 10 Stamina = 10 BLOOD to attacker
  • 100 Stamina = 100 BLOOD to attacker

 

Defender loses:

  • 10 stamina = 1 BLOOD lost from defender
  • 100 stamina = 10 BLOOD lost from defender

 

 

Successful defence from attack:

 

  • 10 stamina = 5 BLOOD  lost from attacker
  • 100 stamina = 50 BLOOD lost from attacker

 

Defender wins: (2x BLOOD gained for successful defence)

  • 10 Stamina = 20 BLOOD to defender
  • 100 Stamina = 200 BLOOD to defender

 

 

Bounty Board

Defender Only Loses BLOOD at the same rate as losing a normal PVP attack.

(can not gain BLOOD for successful defence)

Attacker has same BLOOD gains and losses as above.

Win = 100% BLOOD
Loss = 50% lost BLOOD

 

 

 

  • Remove normal xp loss altogether from pvp and replace it instead with losses and gains of BLOOD.
  • Hitting anyone for gold would remain unaffected.

 

 

 

With the damaging and hostility inspiring element of regular xp removed it will open up the way for a lot of pvp inclusion into the main game and events:

 

 

  • Have a new tree of buffs (Or possibly rework the current trees) to allow for a fourth section of skills that can only be gained with certain pvp levels.

 

  • Introduce new medals that mirror the regular level side. Best player overall for BLOOD becomes dominance. With BLOOD alternatives to top 100 and monthly top 10 also.

 

  • Introduce new quests that require pvp interaction to increase pvp level to possibly gain access to new hunting realms. (with possibly faster hunting alternatives, higher monster xp values etc)

 

  • Introduce some new LE events (or modify some current ones) so that certain realms also require specific pvp levels to enter.

 

  • New global events that require the FS population to kill itself certain amounts of time via pvp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another point recently brought up by badpenny was the reintroduction of the, "Of which the rest was scattered upon the ground" message at the bottom of a combat page on a gold hit.

 

As things currently stand pvp is too damaging to a levellers standpoint. However if we alter that damaging aspect to be within the realms of pvp itself IE; remove regular xp loss and replace it with blood loss. (their pvp level) Then it will more than likely garner much less hostility from the wider community, possibly inspiring more interest. Which itself should allow for the creation of some more widespread pvp orientated events and activities.

 

Thank you to leos3000 who came up with the xp formula, and for everyone else who have contributed ideas.


Edited by Mister Doom, 25 September 2014 - 09:59.

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#2 BadPenny

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:44

OK, this I like.  It gives value and may spark new enthusiasm for the game... GJ, Doomikins 


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#3 midgetmanj

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:51

Nice idea Doom.  I would give this a like but sadly I cant



#4 IXthmrgnXI

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 05:14

Nice rough draft, hopefully they will take some ideas and go with this. It will change PvP dynamically, and give them some direction to play in as well!! You have my vote Shardoom.



#5 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 05:33

Personally I don't like the idea of changing the XP taken from PvP, the game is here for 7 years, a lot of people worked hard to get their medals, ranks, guilds and everything else, now, after 7 years of the game being like this we are supposed to change the PvP completelly? I don't think so, tell one single player that stopped playing FS because of 'I'm innocent, I did nothing to receive so much smashs on my head' and i'll show you 2 PvPers that had stopped because of HCS cutting PvP off the game, stab by stab. That change will not keep more players, will only make more players stop to play FS.

PVPXP is a good idea? Of course it is, but the normal XP taken should stay aswell, add PVPXP events, PVPXP buffs and everything else you mentioned, or just change the name of 'PVPXP' to 'PvP Rating', and you will have almost the same thing we had years ago with the Open Ladder.

I have losted countless levels to PvP, and every single level I've lost I deserved, everytime I was on BB was because of smashing someone else or something related to this. And that's the same with everybody.

But I need to agree, your idea of replacing XP for PVPXP is better than get rid of XP Loss completelly.



#6 RedFinn

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 06:19

Few things come to mind...

 

-PvP attack range, would it depend on my normal level range, or my PvP level range (assuming that PVPXP would give me a   certain PVP level that is)?

 

-Would the PVPXP gained depend on targets normal level, or on targets PVP level?

 

-Are these (normal xp and PVPXP) be tied to eachother, or completely separated? If separated, should there be a "shadow" gear system for PvP?

 

-How easially can the system be abused and exploited? (trading hits, buying xp from friends etc. etc. you know, the usual)

 

But, still, I think this could work for replacing the old system, I guess it depends on how its implimented into the game.

And I am still not saying I am going to like the change, but this seems to be valid option for non-xp-loss-pvp.


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#7 Mister Doom

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 06:28

Few things come to mind...

 

-PvP attack range, would it depend on my normal level range, or my PvP level range (assuming that PVPXP would give me a   certain PVP level that is)?

Would have to be based off of normal range, else higher levels would dominate due to their superior stats/gear

 

-Would the PVPXP gained depend on targets normal level, or on targets PVP level?

This is actually answered in the original post.

 

-Are these (normal xp and PVPXP) be tied to eachother, or completely separated? If separated, should there be a "shadow" gear system for PvP?

They are to be completely separate. This allow for the removal of 'regular' xp loss from pvp. A separate gear system is quite a lot more complicated issue however. An issue for a further debate down the line I think.

 

-How easially can the system be abused and exploited? (trading hits, buying xp from friends etc. etc. you know, the usual)

Not very easily at all. Since the higher level you become, the juicier the target you become. While at the opposite end of the scale the lower level you attack (pvp level) the less reward (pvpxp-wise) you will receive.

 

But, still, I think this could work for replacing the old system, I guess it depends on how its implimented into the game.

And I am still not saying I am going to like the change, but this seems to be valid option for non-xp-loss-pvp.

Thankyou Redfin, I actually tried to come up with a solution that would be the best for both sides of the coin.


Edited by Mister Doom, 23 September 2014 - 06:32.

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#8 midgetmanj

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:24

EDIT.  Tried tagging BG and failed


Edited by midgetmanj, 23 September 2014 - 09:26.


#9 BadPenny

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:40

OK, I already know these answers, but I think the general population will want to know, so just do your stuff Mr Doomikins:

 

1. Where does prestige fit in?

2. How do losses work?  Is PvP exchanged between attacker and defender, (dependent on who wins and who loses of course)?

3. What about the bounty board?  How does it fit into the picture?


Edited by BadPenny, 23 September 2014 - 09:40.

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#10 SlntScream

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:16

With as much negative feedback there is about removing xp loss on the other thread, I think (and hope) it doesn't go ahead. If it did, this could be an interesting alternative. At the same time, I can see some issues..

 

Firstly, it's an instant opt-out button for those levelers who never pvp (or would they still be attackable regardless of having no PVPXP?)

It would attract massive point farming by those people who only attack their friends or pay their victims (Much like we had with the smasher medal)

Not to mention the crying that will surely ensue from players being forced to PvP in order to gain the rewards. <~ And that is what seems to be Grim's biggest issue, and why he's thinking of making such a drastic change. Fact is; someone is going to complain no matter what they do. & I remember a time when the cows were more interested in making pvpers and levelers co-exist happily, rather than finding more ways to separate them.

 

As I'm firmly against removing the xp loss from pvp, I feel there has to be a less drastic way of dealing with the bullying issues, or just leave everything as is and continue to deal with instances of bullying on a case-by-case basis.


Edited by SlntScream, 23 September 2014 - 11:39.

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#11 Mister Doom

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:00

OK, I already know these answers, but I think the general population will want to know, so just do your stuff Mr Doomikins:

 

1. Where does prestige fit in?

To avoid farming I'd suggest prestige function similar to how I've laid out the gaining of pvpxp. attacking a higher pvplevel will reap more prestige, attacking a lower will reap less or none (depending on how high your are yourself)

2. How do losses work?  Is PvP exchanged between attacker and defender, (dependent on who wins and who loses of course)?

Losses are something I'm still trying to work out in my head and would appreciate some input on honestly.

3. What about the bounty board?  How does it fit into the picture?

The bounty board is mentioned in my original post penny. Functions pretty much the same as it does currently, except instead of xp it deals with pvpxp


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#12 Removed18058

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:10

With as much negative feedback there is about removing xp loss on the other thread, I think (and hope) it doesn't go ahead. If it did, this could be an interesting alternative. At the same time, I can see some issues..

 

Firstly, it's an instant opt-out button for those levelers who never pvp (or would they still be attackable regardless of having no PVPXP?)

It would attract massive point farming by those people only attack their friends or pay their victims (Much like we had with the smasher medal)

Not to mention the crying that will surely ensue from players being forced to PvP in order to gain the rewards. <~ And that is what seems to be Grim's biggest issue, and why he's thinking of making such a drastic change. Fact is; someone is going to complain no matter what they do. & I remember a time when the cows were more interested in making pvpers and levelers co-exist happily, rather than finding more ways to separate them.

 

As I'm firmly against removing the xp loss from pvp, I feel there has to be a less drastic way of dealing with the bullying issues, or just leave everything as is and continue to deal with instances of bullying on a case-by-case basis.

 

you also have to level up to hunt certain titans, level up to do certain quests they don't get forced to do pvp we just try to encourage others to try it to get to certain things to do. getting attacked at 0 pvp exp doesn't affect someone who doesn't want to be in.

 

point farming can be easily denied if we have a player x defeats player y situation where player x gains 1x amount of prestige/pvpexp and player y loses 0.75 amount of prestige/pvpexp 

 

this way it will not be rewarding to trade hits with a friend/ multiple friends since people who get their pvp exp legit will have the upper hand


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#13 yotekiller

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:18

What incentives are there to participate?  Another level number with no real meaning?  Why would someone that uses 100% of their stam on leveling suddenly decide to slow down their leveling and use their stam on this new pvp system?  Just because there is no xp loss?  Why wouldn't they just ignore the new system and go about their way?  New quests that require a certain pvp rating to continue?  Why not just bring back the old ones that were removed long ago?  Sorry, this is just another blatant attempt to completely remove pvp from the game and really offers no viable alternatives.


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#14 Davros81

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:22

What incentives are there to participate?  Another level number with no real meaning?  Why would someone that uses 100% of their stam on leveling suddenly decide to slow down their leveling and use their stam on this new pvp system?  Just because there is no xp loss?  Why wouldn't they just ignore the new system and go about their way?  New quests that require a certain pvp rating to continue?  Why not just bring back the old ones that were removed long ago?  Sorry, this is just another blatant attempt to completely remove pvp from the game and really offers no viable alternatives.

I agree this is also just a mish-mash of Clock96's idea and does not really solve anything.



#15 Mister Doom

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:23

What incentives are there to participate?  Another level number with no real meaning?  Why would someone that uses 100% of their stam on leveling suddenly decide to slow down their leveling and use their stam on this new pvp system?  Just because there is no xp loss?  Why wouldn't they just ignore the new system and go about their way?  New quests that require a certain pvp rating to continue?  Why not just bring back the old ones that were removed long ago?  Sorry, this is just another blatant attempt to completely remove pvp from the game and really offers no viable alternatives.

 

  • Have a new tree of buffs (Or possibly rework the current trees) to allow for a fourth section of skills that can only be gained with certain pvp levels.

 

  • Introduce new quests that require pvp interaction to increase pvp level to possibly gain access to new hunting realms. (with possibly faster hunting alternatives, higher monster xp values etc)

 

  • Introduce some new LE events (or modify some current ones) so that certain realms also require specific pvp levels to enter.

 

  • New global events that require the FS population to kill itself certain amounts of time via pvp.

 

 

Perhaps you missed these incentives while reading my original post? They seem quite good if you ask me.


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#16 avvakum

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:36

One thing is to dream about something, another is what can be really done, given the current state, resources and time.

I have just one question - what to do with all these suddenly unimportant things:

Add New Unique Items and Medals to Guild Conflict (Being Designed)
Improve Buff Market to stop abuse (In Progress)

Planned Development (Target Release Date)
Fallen Sword Point Vault (Bank) (20th September 2014)
Extract All (3rd October 2014)
Improve Marketplace (4th October 2014)
Add Top Rated Section for Titan Hunters and Super-Elite Slayer (6th October 2014)
Improve the PvP Ladder (13th October 2014)
Improved Item Compare (20th October 2014)
Improve Auction Notification Messages (21st October 2014)
Improve Top Rated (27th October 2014)
Guild Conflict Structure (3rd November 2014)
Invite to Guild Button (7th November 2014)
Improve Secure Trade (10th November 2014)
Make Map Footprints Persistent (17th November 2014)
Wiki / Ultimate Fallen Sword Guide Link (18th November 2014)
Improve Secure Trade / Send Item Feature (24th November 2014)
Improve View Creature Popup (25th November 2014)
Add New Player List for Mentors (29th November 2014)
Hide Perfect (30th November 2014)
Add Useful Links to Message (2nd December 2014)
Re-design Diamond Medal Artwork (7th December 2014)
Improve the Attack Player interface (14th December 2014)

#17 Mister Doom

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:40

Honestly I'd assume a reworking of pvp (which is going to happen either way) would take precedence.

It is after all, a very important part of the Fallensword experience.


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#18 midgetmanj

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:54

As doom said, I would place fixing an important part of the game before bug fixes.  After all the advertisment on the HCS site for fallensword states: "along your travels you will encounter fellow players who you can engage in battle against." 

 

As such, maybe just maybe can we shove everything else to the back burner and try and fix something that is quite important?



#19 Iago

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 12:00

As doom said, I would place fixing an important part of the game before bug fixes.  After all the advertisment on the HCS site for fallensword states: "along your travels you will encounter fellow players who you can engage in battle against." 

 

As such, maybe just maybe can we shove everything else to the back burner and try and fix something that is quite important?

 

I don't see the problem? You can engage other players in battle. What is being discussed is the XP loss issue, not the fact PvP exists. :)


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#20 midgetmanj

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 12:02

I don't see the problem? You can engage other players in battle. What is being discussed is the XP loss issue, not the fact PvP exists. :)

 

 

No No.  It was more directed towards avvarkum (?)  and to support dooms comment after it.  :)




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