310 replies to this topic

[gomezkilla]

but as gomezkilla would say its FAIR GAME since you can enter a 1000 or 2000 level match with level 400 gear....according to him you have a FAIR chance to win??  NOT !!!!

Well, they do. Using a 8 person tournament as an example: Each player in that tournament has a 1 in 8 chance of winning, I didn't say they had access to the best gear for that particular tournament.

 

 

now you ASK for them to change the arena for you to benefit you and to keep out the lower level players......

I'm asking for the arenas to be split into level groups and have the filled arenas replenished... all will be random for level, but they would be restricted to the level range... This thread will elaborate more into that idea. 

 

We are tring to make the arena more fair, so more people play right?  Im not sure what the best way to do it is but  every player should be able to enter the same amount of arena matches, and they need to find some way to put more advanced players in more advanced groups.  If someone is good, then they will move up, and all those players that say there are no masters should have nothing to say, since they would be playing others of somewhat equal arena wins........and of course since all the players with 2000+ arena wins claim there are no masters then they should have no complaint about playing someone with a similar amount of wins.  RIGHT??

Sorry, but that's wrong. We are trying to make it all fair, but that is not the way to go about it. Technically, we already do divide by skill. My meaning being we have the Novice section for 50 wins to get the experience and the Regular section for those ready to play in the big leagues. Dividing even more by skill wouldn't work because we would just face the same thing as before this update with the arenas not filling up fast enough and this time it will be because there aren't enough active arena players to fill those higher skilled arena tournaments.

 

Same amount of matches for everyone... I read about an idea that would solve that problem here.

 

Please refrain from the accusations. They will only discredit your opinions.

 

Here's a good thread to look at for a solution for fairness. Click here,

 

Did I put the same link in all those hyperlinks to the same thread? Huh, must be an important thread to look at. 

Edited by gomezkilla, 29 June 2014 - 22:14.

[BraveKath]

Advantage comes from playing often and learning by LOSING  A LOT!

+1  and READING those loss reports and working to understand them and find the patterns, so you can improve.  It all can seem nonsensical in the beginning, but if you look and stop and consider you start to understand the patterns.

 

 

Edited by BraveKath, 29 June 2014 - 04:17.

[sweetlou]

I think what HCS should have probably done before they changed the system of rewards, was to improve the matchmaking system first.

 

Instead of the same people winning all of the arena's, all of the time. There should be a system that categorises a player by their level of skill (Which medal they have achieved) and pits them against similar skilled individuals.

 

So for instance there would be a complete arena for beginners with all of the lower end rewards and occasionally a few of the higher end. Then once they have earned their bronze medal they would graduate to the arena for 'slightly less rubbish beginners' and only face others who have achieved their bronze medal also. Each 'tier' would have a higher total value of available rewards to give players a sense of true progression.

 

(Basically a bracket system for the arena, to stop the massacring of the new by the arena pro's that have been doing this for half a decade.)

 

The only flaw in the system would be the very highest tiers of medals. Which could merely be grouped together until the number of people who have achieved the required amount of wins reaches a respectable and viable amount.

 

 

(Copied from the other 'now locked' thread to improve visibility)

 

Think of it like leagues in football. They don't pit the rubbish low ranked clubs against the premier league, they'd get smashed every single time. (except in special cups/tournaments)

 

Starter League - Anyone who is just starting out. Mostly low rewards. Occasional good reward.

 

Bronze league - Anyone with a bronze medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Silver League - Anyone with a silver medal. Similar to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Gold League - Anyone with a Gold medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Crystal League - You get the idea by now... Higher tier will likely have to be merged until the amounts of players in them reach acceptable amounts.

 

Ruby League

 

Diamond League

It's crazy Doom but we are starting to agree more frequently! I love it, a handicap like golf. The Scots making this game should be good at implementing something of this sort.

 

What I'm tired of seeing is the huge disparity of game wealth that comes from one or two parts of the game. Tone it down!

[Rasputin]

I think what HCS should have probably done before they changed the system of rewards, was to improve the matchmaking system first.

 

Instead of the same people winning all of the arena's, all of the time. There should be a system that categorises a player by their level of skill (Which medal they have achieved) and pits them against similar skilled individuals.

 

So for instance there would be a complete arena for beginners with all of the lower end rewards and occasionally a few of the higher end. Then once they have earned their bronze medal they would graduate to the arena for 'slightly less rubbish beginners' and only face others who have achieved their bronze medal also. Each 'tier' would have a higher total value of available rewards to give players a sense of true progression.

 

(Basically a bracket system for the arena, to stop the massacring of the new by the arena pro's that have been doing this for half a decade.)

 

The only flaw in the system would be the very highest tiers of medals. Which could merely be grouped together until the number of people who have achieved the required amount of wins reaches a respectable and viable amount.

 

 

(Copied from the other 'now locked' thread to improve visibility)

 

Think of it like leagues in football. They don't pit the rubbish low ranked clubs against the premier league, they'd get smashed every single time. (except in special cups/tournaments)

 

Starter League - Anyone who is just starting out. Mostly low rewards. Occasional good reward.

 

Bronze league - Anyone with a bronze medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Silver League - Anyone with a silver medal. Similar to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Gold League - Anyone with a Gold medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Crystal League - You get the idea by now... Higher tier will likely have to be merged until the amounts of players in them reach acceptable amounts.

 

Ruby League

 

Diamond League

 

 

This is how it should be.

[Undjuvion]

This is how it should be.

 

there is as much merit in this as lack of thought, look at all the players on the top arena list from say gold medal(1000 wins) then click on each name and see how many are active, it may work if silver medal and up were grouped, once you find all the ones that still play sword, ask them if they have any inkling to play the arena again, then take into consideration timezones, then if 5 of them go on holidays etc, it could get slower than the lower level arenas not spawning atm except theyd be sitting there half the day waiting for a few to start, how many noobs can afford to pile millions of gold each day to reach that higher tier, you want agro at us "top" players but we cant help it if weve been playing a few years,

 

and that comment of what is there to play for by whoever wrote it ..... THE MEDAL, its what the arena was or should have been about, if you are only worried about the prizes then nowonder you think the top arena players are greedy and lining their pockets and big resounding NO i wouldnt be concerned if someone else was raking it in and i wasnt, i never once complained about frackers dominating titans originally, thats their own personal business, all the people that used to farm destroyer items, thats their good fortune and in all the years ive played arena ive probably made lucky if a few k fsp worth, ive made double that on titans in half the time and many times that in the AH, the arena has never been the money maker it was thought to be and dont get me started on how people used to think there was some magical setup that floated down from the heavens, you can give yourself an edge if you use your head and meddle with your parts until its as good as itll get but noone is invincible, far from it, i could rant forever over so much dribble appearing in here, i try and go along with ideas to give them a chance but all i hear is ME ME ME, the cows arent even here and i doubt theyll even wanna sift through all this dribble, atm what simply needs doing is getting the spawning right so people can at least enter....

[Artzik]

we need to have much more arenas between 1-14, 15-34, 35-54, 55-100

so new players can also enjoy arena...and that is massive goldsink since gear you need all kind of gear every few lvls

 

when I wrote this lowest match is lvl 74 and new one is lvl151...

Edited by Artzik, 29 June 2014 - 06:26.

[BraveKath]

I think what HCS should have probably done before they changed the system of rewards, was to improve the matchmaking system first.

 

Instead of the same people winning all of the arena's, all of the time. There should be a system that categorises a player by their level of skill (Which medal they have achieved) and pits them against similar skilled individuals.

 

So for instance there would be a complete arena for beginners with all of the lower end rewards and occasionally a few of the higher end. Then once they have earned their bronze medal they would graduate to the arena for 'slightly less rubbish beginners' and only face others who have achieved their bronze medal also. Each 'tier' would have a higher total value of available rewards to give players a sense of true progression.

 

(Basically a bracket system for the arena, to stop the massacring of the new by the arena pro's that have been doing this for half a decade.)

 

The only flaw in the system would be the very highest tiers of medals. Which could merely be grouped together until the number of people who have achieved the required amount of wins reaches a respectable and viable amount.

 

 

(Copied from the other 'now locked' thread to improve visibility)

 

Think of it like leagues in football. They don't pit the rubbish low ranked clubs against the premier league, they'd get smashed every single time. (except in special cups/tournaments)

 

Starter League - Anyone who is just starting out. Mostly low rewards. Occasional good reward.

 

Bronze league - Anyone with a bronze medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Silver League - Anyone with a silver medal. Similar to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Gold League - Anyone with a Gold medal. Similar rewards to previous tier but with increased chances of good rewards.

 

Crystal League - You get the idea by now... Higher tier will likely have to be merged until the amounts of players in them reach acceptable amounts.

 

Ruby League

 

Diamond League

 

This is logical in many ways, but there's a couple points, one of them I feel is critical and makes this difficult to achieve.

One Obstacle: Enough Active Players for This?

Do we all think we have enough active or even potentially active arena players to fill all these various categories, while also allowing a wide diversification of levels so that the L300 player who is a Gold Arena player has adequate # of matches to not be twiddling his thumbs.  The higher level players can technically play the entire gamut if they have access to all the gear.

If - HCS was willing to do ONLY A PORTION of arenas based on this "league" structure, then it might be sustainable.

One Intrinsic Reward: Pride - Challenge ...

The biggest motivation I had to do as much arena as I did, granted not a bunch (~130) was the cheap thrills I got when I lucked out and beat an Arena Champion, but it was in loosing to those champions that I learned as a number of them were gracious and took time to teach me.  I still have my notes from that time period.   There's some great Arena folks -- who love it and welcome and assist new players, if you're the type who is willing to learn.  True there are many that would seem to love to exclude new players, and their short shortsightedness should remain their emotional problem, not the game's.

 

Arena is like regular PvP in many ways and it is an intellectual challenge with a more luck tossed into the mix than regular PvP, and as such players seeking that need a true challenge, along with as you point out successes.

 

Thus - I propose COMPROMISE:

It is an excellent idea Doom, but to have it be 100% as you've outlined isn't perhaps the best for arena in the long run, but a blending of the current approach and yours would foster development of new players, as well as challenge them a bit more at times and provide a place for the best of the best to spar.  What that percentage should be -- I don't know, but I suppose experimentation is the best way to find out with tracking for how long it takes for the various arena to proceed to completion.

Edited by BraveKath, 29 June 2014 - 06:36.

[yghorbeviahn]

Ok, I read Doom's idea and I respectfullt disagree =P

Now that we're trying to improve the Arena activity MAYBE it's a good idea to increase ONE MORE bracket.

Novice
Players with less than 100 Arena Wins.
Players with more than 100 Arena Wins.

And that's all, nothing more, really.

Novice: To get the moves.
Standard: To learn how the Arena works (moves, setup, luck factor, etc)
Pro: To learn how to really play Arena facing people who already know how to play.

Seriously guys, just watch all loses you have, and try to figure out why you lose, examples:
- Oponent Ice Shard activate.
- His move have effect against mine.
- Can't find a way through oponnent defense.
- Got a Counter Attack.

And things like that, and it's no shame to go back on 'finished arenas' and watch the move setups from the pros, you'll be able to develop your own move setup.

Usually you'll face two kinds of setups:
DEF+dam
ARM+att+hp

If you fight a Def setup against a Def setup that's "all about luck", and there is where moves like Weaken and such have an effect, it's not a big deal to learn.

[Saxon]

If a limit to entry is applied to the arena this just stops players who enjoy that element of the game from playing the aspect they enjoy.

 

If this comes in its just another reason for players to stop playing. These are the players who have mastered the trade so let them enjoy it.

 

Everyone who enters no matter what level they are, are placed on the same level for arenas so its totally equal.

 

At the moment there is a lot of arena activity (not that I can be bothered to enter) but this activity will fade and then they guys who enjoy the arena are then left with a shell of what the arena should be, then what have they got?

- An even slower element of the game than they had a few weeks ago.

Edited by Saxon, 29 June 2014 - 08:46.

[Dulcharn]

Hoof, grim,

 

Can you add the gold reward tournaments back into the arena?

 

Thanks!

[bloody18]

For the gold exchange for arena tokens ..1 arena token =$4000 gold. Can we  please  be able to exchange more than 1 token at a time. thanks:)

[Saxon]

Continuing my last post

- HCS please don't block more aspects of the game to players who enjoy those aspects and have become great at them.

 

My personal experience of the arena

- When VenomSheru was on his mission and became the top arena player I was playing the arena too. Yes I lost loads of matches against him until I started to work out why I was losing and then I became his nemesis and started beating him 50% of the time. This actually gave me interest as it was hard and not an easy win.

 

- Stop asking for a win key!!!!!

[yghorbeviahn]

Continuing my last post

- HCS please don't block more aspects of the game to players who enjoy those aspects and have become great at them.

 

My personal experience of the arena

- When VenomSheru was on his mission and became the top arena player I was playing the arena too. Yes I lost loads of matches against him until I started to work out why I was losing and then I became his nemesis and started beating him 50% of the time. This actually gave me interest as it was hard and not an easy win.

 

- Stop asking for a win key!!!!!

That is the problem with 90% of the new arena players, the combats are not so easy to understand.

You have moves that have chance to activate (like Ice Shard), moves that have effect against others moves (like Spin Attack vs Counter Attack), non-moves arenas and moves that will have effect for the all the combat if they activate (like Weaken).

Once you start to figure out how they work you'll have a lot more wins.

[Davros81]

Continuing my last post

- HCS please don't block more aspects of the game to players who enjoy those aspects and have become great at them.

 

My personal experience of the arena

- When VenomSheru was on his mission and became the top arena player I was playing the arena too. Yes I lost loads of matches against him until I started to work out why I was losing and then I became his nemesis and started beating him 50% of the time. This actually gave me interest as it was hard and not an easy win.

 

- Stop asking for a win key!!!!!

 

I agree, how do you think the current masters of the arena got to where they are, did they have a win key, no they used intelligence to overcome the old arena champions not simply sat and moaned for a win key as is what is being asked by certain people in this topic. Do not separate out the different players in the tournaments, the only way anyone is going to get better at anything is for them to be pushed hard. The arena is hard work and for anyone to suggest that those who are the veterans of the arena simply win by default is utter nonsense, ask any of the top arena players and they will tell you they still have to work hard for their victories.

Edited by Davros81, 29 June 2014 - 09:14.

[Rasputin]

That is the problem with 90% of the new arena players, the combats are not so easy to understand.

You have moves that have chance to activate (like Ice Shard), moves that have effect against others moves (like Spin Attack vs Counter Attack), non-moves arenas and moves that will have effect for the all the combat if they activate (like Weaken).

Once you start to figure out how they work you'll have a lot more wins.

Well you first have to win a few in Novice to get moves. Even then you are SOL unless you have the correct gear to win to get the moves. This sucks I can't even get moves to even try anything. Then when I get the moves I have no idea which ones to use first. Meanwhile I am wasting my time stam and everything else. There needs to be some good starting points and tiers for the newbies to learn how to do it without getting their faces kicked in and never achieving anything.

 

At least someone make a freaking guide to help us newbies.

Edited by Rasputin, 29 June 2014 - 09:24.

[BraveKath]

DELETED - made comments elsewhere - pardon.

Edited by BraveKath, 29 June 2014 - 09:29.

[radon23]

1) I agree with Shardoom saying arenas have to be divided on gear level but also for experience. Medals would be a good way. Higher medals, higher rewards, but newbies could fight between them and learn, not only be defeated by usual players. Its also true gears and combat moves are the real difference, and players in great guilds have better options.

2) About potions prices: something wrong about it. Why LF600, BM300, LIB300 surely useful ones, have the same price of some potions nobody uses? Why somebody would use 2,000 useful tokens for a potion that could find in auction house (or potion bazaar) for 4,000 gold or less? I think its also time, maybe this is a good opportunity, to remove some potions, such as reflection100, potion of supreme doubling (doubler 450), find item 75, sanctuary 50, entrench 50, adept learner 125, librarian 100, conserve 100, mastersmith 25, sanctuary 25, assist 150, buff master 100, unbreakble 100, potions that with the new buff market and better potions easily available, have no more reason to be.

[yghorbeviahn]

Well you first have to win a few in Novice to get moves. Even then you are SOL unless you have the correct gear to win to get the moves. This sucks I can't even get moves to even try anything. Then when I get the moves I have no idea which ones to use first. Meanwhile I am wasting my time stam and everything else. There needs to be some good starting points and tiers for the newbies to learn how to do it without getting their faces kicked in and never achieving anything.

 

At least someone make a freaking guide to help us newbies.

Try DEF/dam and ARM/att setups on novice arena, you'll get all the moves in one or two days.

Arena doesn't cost stamina.

To start your move setup check the 'finished arenas' as I said, and watch the pros to see what you can create using their base.

That's a really good start.

[Brinmoth]

At least someone make a freaking guide to help us newbies.

 

There's lots of useful information on this very forum.

Edited by Brinmoth, 29 June 2014 - 09:35.

[insaner6]

please,  dont bring back the noumerous arenas of levels 1-100. 
as it was proven from the activity of the pvp arena,  they were dull
and very slow.
the new lvl 1500++ arenas are the ones that are moving very fast,
which means that is a good way forward for reviving the arena.
dont destroy it due to players complaining about the fact that the
big arenas are the one that are fiiling faster,  thus they are faster
moving forward.

instead if u want to be fair,   have   for example   60 active arenas each given time.
10 pvp arena  for lvls   1-100
15 pvp arena for lvls 100-1000
20 pvp aren for lvls  1000-2000
15 pvp arena for lvls 2000-3000

and as the EOC keeps on mooving on,   keep increasing the amount of active arenas
by adding turnaments in the highest bracket.