149 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

OK, a sweeping statement like the topic title above means diddly squat as a stand-alone comment - I think we all know that.

 

So, I gathered a little evidence whilst I was trying to find some defence based mercenaries for my guildie to hunt Dreadlord and Skull Carver.

 

I sent out 100 expeditions and got the following results :-

 

 

There were also 18 "no-shows" in the results.

 

Now, of the results above, only ONE mercenary has a defence over 8K (The Hooded Archer - and that's not even the best attribute - as can be seen in the table above) and only an additional ONE had a defence over 4K (Grabbit Swiftclaw - and this mercs defence is his WEAKEST attribute). So, in 100 search parties, I found a grand total of TWO mercenaries with a defence over 4K.

 

This isn't, I know, a definitive result - but I also have an excel spreadsheet that lists 81 of the (approx) 115-120 mercenaries available and in that list, there are only FOUR mercs with a defence over 8K (Agarka Bonebuster, Shadowsword, Grinder Stonehide & The Hooded Archer) along with a further 6 with defences between 4k - 8k (Wandering Swordsman, Golden Prophetess, Gevern the Shadow Sorcerer, Field Reedglitter, Maka Lamda the Sho-Gi and Grabbit Swiftclaw).

 

So, IMHO, there's a definate "gap in the market" for some more defence based mercenaries.

 

Also, in my spreadsheet of 81 mercs, the level breakdown is quite revealing ...

 

Level 1 - Level 100 - 16 mercenaries

Level 101 - Level 200 - 28 mercenaries

Level 201 - Level 300 - 13 mercenaries

Level 301 - Level 400 - 6 mercenaries

Level 401 - Level 500 - 6 mercenaries
Level 501 - Level 600 - 1 mercenary

Level 601 - Level 700 - 2 mercenaries

Level 701 - Level 800 - 1 mercenary

Level 801 - Level 900 - 0 mercenaries

Level 900 - Level 1000 - 4 mercenaries

Level 1000+ - 2 mercenaries

 

Initially, I thought the search parties were "weighted" so that the chance of finding a lower level mercenary was higher than finding a higher level mercenary - but it seems, from the statistics I've gathered, that's its a pure dice roll for which one you get - but the plethora of lower level, less useful ones tips the balance their way.

 

Given that the game already has content to Level 2100, I feel that mercenaries deserves a good looking at and quite a substantial amount adding from around level 500 upwards and ideally, ones above the current ceiling.

 

However, I also think that this should be looked at AFTER the current roadmap ...

 

(as an addendum, I think that the majority of the ones up to Level 200 are, not to be blunt, as much use as a chocolate poker and/or an ash-tray on a motorbike)

Edited by Pardoux, 13 June 2014 - 03:58.

[cyrus7]

Back when content only went to level 400, most of the mercs would have been stats of an average guildmate, as I suppose is intended. However, the game and players' levels grew, and even when they added a few more mercs later, they didn't add much, and it's been a while.  So yes, guild-hired mercs for groups do need some updates/additions.

[BraveKath]

Thanks Pardoux!  Hiring merc's takes forever if you actually need one with decent stats.  If you only need a vague body that's below L125 then you're fine.  The Merc system is severely crippled and in dire need of having serious attention spent on it as soon as possible.  

I know not considered kosher, but I would like to see this placed on the current roadmap and yes, even push back a few things to get us some more merc of level and stats that fit with the game's growth and we need more.  There are not enough decent stat-level merc to go around at least not based on the Search results.

Thanks for taking the time to record your Search results.  I've not done that, but your results look very familiar to my experiences.  In all the groups I've made I think I've only seen the L1125 Merc once.

Hope this thread gets HCS' attention and that Hoof & Grim put it on their task list to examine soon and make a plan to beef it up for us all.  

Let the Chanting begin!

 

 ... More Merc's!  Better Merc's! More Merc's!  Better Merc's! More Merc's!  Better Merc's! More Merc's!  Better Merc's! More Merc's!  Better Merc's! .... 

Edited by BraveKath, 13 June 2014 - 09:17.

[tharzill]

I have to agree that mercs need upgrading. In large guilds it may not be a big deal, but in small guilds finding a mercenary that is actually useful can be a frustrating task. I also would like to see this added to the "to do" list after the current one is caught up. Thanks for bringing this up. 

[evilbry]

The problem with mercs, is they are counter productive generally when put up against Counter attack. 

 

Using a group you don't get Counter Attack. So the mercs will usually lower your stats.

 

While I don't think CA should work with groups, something does need to bring value back to the neglected mercs.

[BraveKath]

There are very few people who hunt with Counter Attack.  It's probably the most under utilized buff in the game and I think that fits.

[cyrus7]

There are very few people who hunt with Counter Attack.  It's probably the most under utilized buff in the game and I think that fits.

Personally, I use Counter Attack for soloing Elites rather than using a group [with mercs].

[BraveKath]

Personally, I use Counter Attack for soloing Elites rather than using a group [with mercs].

 

Your choice.  I don't agree with it.  Do not assume that my level indicates a lack of knowledge, nor imply it.  Regardless, your post attempts to derail a subject.  Let's keep to the subject. 

The game long established that Merc's were a component seen as beneficial by the developers, HCS, and the game infrastructure in this regard has not kept pace with its advancement. 
 

[cyrus7]

Your choice.  I don't agree with it.  Do not assume that my level indicates a lack of knowledge, nor imply it.  Regardless, your post attempts to derail a subject.  Let's keep to the subject. 

The game long established that Merc's were a component seen as beneficial by the developers, HCS, and the game infrastructure in this regard has not kept pace with its advancement. 
 

Nothing was assumed nor implied by my one line stating a personal preference for method of killing Elites. Additionally, I was not attempting to derail the subject; I was simply replying to a post you made, in order to indicate that there are in fact people who use Counter Attack for Elites, rather than groups.

 

Also, I did agree in my first post in this thread that we need more up-to-date mercs available, so I don't know why you're lashing out at me.

[BigGrim]

Calm down everyone. Play nice please.

[Davros81]

Personally, I use Counter Attack for soloing Elites rather than using a group [with mercs].

I also hardly ever use groups for killing elites, you can solo every single elite on your own, just requires a bit of gumption and thought.

 

Having said that the mercs could do with a review and how they are acquired, I still believe a two tiered system with two taverns is the answer. One tavern for the high end mercs, which costs more for each search and a second tavern that has the lower end mercs in it which costs less for each search. Kind of like the scavenging caves, maybe make it two structures or an upgrade to the original structure?

Edited by Davros81, 13 June 2014 - 15:44.

[sweetlou]

Couple things regarding your post.

 

Playing at the 'edge' of the game has always meant that certain aspects of the game weren't available to you. Buffs and gear take a while to develop, and yes mercs. Even portals don't show up right away. The game has also been geared toward huge guilds negating the need for mercs. I looked for the first time in many months just now and found (114 available for hire). That's much better then the '0' for hire that used to be the standard, even if they are the junk ones meant to be there as a gold sink or to be used to save your xp if you lose in a group attack.

 

Did you know that if you want to get rid of the junk ones and you don't mind spending a bit of guild gold that if you buy one then disband it, it will not go back into the pool you're looking at for a good long time? I want to say an hour but don't remember it's been so long. So there's one method to relieve you of your misery of finding ashtrays on motorcycles...

[Gutie]

Ouch I usually can find #100 Sssracq Hrrrzzz, #94 Shadowsword, #99 Ban'ei Percheron, #109 Agarka Bonebuster all seem do work well. Mind going off their Merc ID numbers they're recent adds, and obviously haven't gone after the 1600 SEs, so I'm of the view that it's definitely needed as well. I usually get a few guildmates to help boost my stats to top it off.... and generally the top mercenaries are being used, so even these ones aren't commonly availible.

[Pardoux]

As an addendum, in the spreadsheet I have of 81 mercs :-

 

Highest Level : 1125

 

Highest Attack : 8721 (MUST be one with a higher attack than this ? - goes looking)

 

Highest Defence : 24364

 

Highest Armour : 11230

 

Highest HP : 31987

 

Highest Damage : 18779 (again, MUST be one with a higher dam than this ..)

 

There's definite room for additions / alterations here

[rowbeth]

Have to agree with much of this. The game has certainly grown way beyond the current Merc system. I'd say two things are needed.

 

(1) As most are saying here, more Mercs at higher levels - recognising that critters are now above level 2100

 

*** n.b. (I presume) no coding is required to add new Mercs, so this is content roadmap rather than development roadmap and no roadmap queue jumping is required ***

 

(2) Some way of speeding up the search for a suitable Merc. Two taverns might help, but given the large spread of player levels, that is a pretty blunt tool to attack this problem. Personally I'd like to see a multiple search button: you specify the minimum stats you are looking for and agree (with one more number and one more click) to send out up to n search parties - and the server then sends the multiple searches for you (and charges you) until a suitable merc is found.

 

 

There is an intrinsic "problem" (for want of a better word) of low level elites/SEs becoming trivial with easy availability of high-level mercs; but that problem is implicit in having guilds & groups rather than the merc system. Given the wide spread of levels in the game now, one could deal with it by having the percentage stats added to a group scaled by the level difference between group leader and group member - but that is probably a discussion for a different thread.

[Thriceborn]

Level 1 - Level 100 - 16 mercenaries

Level 101 - Level 200 - 28 mercenaries

Level 201 - Level 300 - 13 mercenaries

Level 301 - Level 400 - 6 mercenaries

Level 401 - Level 500 - 6 mercenaries
Level 501 - Level 600 - 1 mercenary

Level 601 - Level 700 - 2 mercenaries

Level 701 - Level 800 - 1 mercenary

Level 801 - Level 900 - 0 mercenaries

Level 900 - Level 1000 - 4 mercenaries

Level 1000+ - 2 mercenaries

 

Maybe some of the many, many low level mercs could go on a training regimen, even the spread a bit. The four mercs in the 501-900 range could use the company, I think.

[Pardoux]

(futile) bump

[Davros81]

Perhaps some of the lower levelled mercs, like those sub level 100, should be retired and new mercs introduced or as mentioned they go on a veterans course and come back as much higher levelled mercs. This would make the cows' job easier as they could use the same artwork just boost the stats by a certain percentage.

 

Final idea would be for a select number of mercs to be thought up by players as a reward on a global event or something...?

 

Just ideas...

[lapdragon]

LOL i ran out of likes...but i was just spending about half hour yesterday looking for "good" mercs.  and i had plenty of level <300, and looking at the stats, i was wondering WHO would even hire them...i agree if they took a "training course" and if it was easy for the HCS to just up the stats..keeping the same artwork..which many are pretty cool along with their stories...and up them >500, would be a small aspect that would be nice....tho, if its too much work...i know the TEAM is working on a lot right now and i dont want to take away from many of the road-map time frames!  but thank you for this thread.....LOL i thought i was only one who felt this way...

[duktayp]

whenever i win a battle using mercs, the result says "xxx, yyy, and zzz earned some xp" but their added xp never advances them in level.....