86 replies to this topic

[Pardoux]

I just wonder how many .... IF ANY .... of those against removing ALL scripts from the game are actually using them in forms other than "official" releases ?

 

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(is that "if any" sufficiently highlighted so as not to be seen as an accusation of person or persons in particular?)

[Kildek]

If we could get the core and major features of FSH implemented into FS, why wouldn't you guys want to ban FSH? There will be no second guessing whether someone is cheating and the game will be that much easier to police since ALL scripts will be banned. And I agree, anyone caught cheating should be permanently banned.
<snip>

In itself there is nothing wrong with integrating FS-helper features into FS.

The problem is that there is no indication, that this actually would help to find the illegal scripts.
On this see the post by evilbry
http://forums.hunted...e=2#entry875133

At the pace FS-Helper features have been integrated so far, it would take years before the features are fully integrated.

There is no proof that FS-helper is getting modified, let alone modified to a degree that would justify to ban it.

Banning Fs-Helper would impair the game experience for a fair amount of players.

[Kildek]

I just wonder how many .... IF ANY .... of those against removing ALL scripts from the game are actually using them in forms other than "official" releases ?

Now that you can not come up with any proof to base your arguments on, you start with random finger pointing? Really?
Come on Pardoux, you can do better than that.

[Pardoux]

Now that you can not come up with any proof to base your arguments on, you start with random finger pointing? Really?
Come on Pardoux, you can do better than that.

 

Where is there ANY finger pointing ? - I merely wondered if any of those voters who voted to keep the script were because they wanted to keep it BECAUSE they were using it for the reasons that I think it should be removed ?. I was VERY careful to not point any fingers at anyone.

 

I read what Bry said, and I'd even agree with it - but, the bottom line is, we (as a game community) should be doing as much as possible to eradicate cheating not "the fsh is useful to a lot of people, so we'll ignore those using it to cheat" IMO.

 

As I've stated before in the thread, I HAVE provided proof of abuse and said person was punished for it ..

 

The thread / point appear to be moot anyways - the vote is heavily against removing the FSH from the game and the current programming dev. is loathe to implement the features so it seems we're stuck with the status quo for the time being.

Edited by Pardoux, 01 July 2014 - 05:34.

[Davros81]

doesn't sound like much of a punishment if all they got was a warning for breaking the rules, all that has happened is that person has been given the chance to modify their script so it does not get detected again, which achieves nothing.

[Pardoux]

doesn't sound like much of a punishment if all they got was a warning for breaking the rules, all that has happened is that person has been given the chance to modify their script so it does not get detected again, which achieves nothing.

 

Agreed - Cheats should be terminated, no exceptions. So should multis - INCLUDING the host account.

 

The rules are pretty explicit - so a warning (or, in some cases, warningS) are too soft ...

[Kildek]

Where is there ANY finger pointing ? - I merely wondered if any of those voters who voted to keep the script were because they wanted to keep it BECAUSE they were using it for the reasons that I think it should be removed ?. I was VERY careful to not point any fingers at anyone.

More knit-picking. You are trying to keep yourself covered, while still leaving the accusation.

I read what Bry said, and I'd even agree with it - but, the bottom line is, we (as a game community) should be doing as much as possible to eradicate cheating not "the fsh is useful to a lot of people, so we'll ignore those using it to cheat" IMO.

As I've stated before in the thread, I HAVE provided proof of abuse and said person was punished for it ..

You have been vague at best. I believe that someone used a script, but you did not come up with anything that has convinced me it is related to FS-helper. Additionally that was only 1 instance.
You seem to live by "better save than sorry", even if this would impair the game experience for many players.

The thread / point appear to be moot anyways - the vote is heavily against removing the FSH from the game and the current programming dev. is loathe to implement the features so it seems we're stuck with the status quo for the time being.

For the future, i am hoping there will be a new developer for FS-Helper, to get it working properly again.

[Pardoux]

You have been vague at best. I believe that someone used a script, but you did not come up with anything that has convinced me it is related to FS-helper. Additionally that was only 1 instance.
You seem to live by "better save than sorry", even if this would impair the game experience for many players.
 

 

Bottom line ? - it's not YOU I need to convince, now is it ?

 

My reported (and acted upon) report WAS FSH related - I don't need to prove that to anyone but the cows - and they knew it was related to a customised FSH.

 

And, I'm sure I'm not the only one to have reported cheating with, supposedly, customised FSH's.

 

You also seem to be ignoring the fact (conveniently) that I would prefer the cows to incorporate the FSH into the game and then remove it, but Zorg doesn't want to.

 

I stand by my " I would rather the FSH be removed (given Zorgs reluctance to incorporate it) than it be still a "legal" script in the game".

 

Some agree, some disagree - we can debate back and forth, but only the cows can action cheating in the game. We, as players, can only :-

 

1. Bring it to their attention

or

2. Turn a blind eye to it

or

3. Participate in it

 

Each to their own (again, NO accusations there, either implicit or explicit), but I'm firmly in favour of option 1.

 

Detecting cheating may well be hard / impossible for the cows - so do we just accept it ? - or do we try to do something about it ?

[EpicPiety]

Enough of your he said she said para we don't care about that...stop using that as grounds to argue. Getting rid of FSH WONT STOP ANYONE FROM SCRIPTING ILLEGALLY...lol idk what i have to say to beat this into your head. *if there even is anyone doing it*...we get the point scripting is bad we really do get it. Doing what you want done won't change anything it will just be a inconvenience for your average joe.The cows as a company would not want to inconvenience people lol. Also FSH is basically grandfathered in there is really no *taking it away*. This is really not constructive and is getting no where and will get no where. I really do agree with you if anyone is scripting they should have it taken away and possibly punished...But the way your going about it is totally wrong. But in the end i really don't feel like scripting is a big issue at the moment...i haven't really come across anyone that strikes me as using one. Also those so called *notorious script users* have been ticketed hundreds of times and have been deemed clean by the cows...So you are just going to have to accept that fact. I'm sure the cows have put some backbone into investigating those individuals as well... If your one of those people who still don't believe it well you have issues and need to open your eyes. Everyones entitled to their own opinion... But they shouldn't preach it like a stone cold fact. *not directed at you for the last part just in general*...But back to para here though...i want a sincere answer to this question here...What do you think removing FSH will do to the possible scripting community? What will it do other than inconvenience your average player that uses FSH. I just really want to hear your opinion on this matter. Because i really can't come up with any pro's on my end.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 10:16.

[EpicPiety]

Here's something that should be furthered/fixed rather than taking FSH out...http://forums.hunted...showtopic=65637 Although it's absolutely broken and does not detect scripts atm. That's at least on the right path to stopping *scripting*. I have to hand it to them for rigging something up to shut people up for awhile though haha...although i knew from square one what they did. But no matter what they add you will still have people crying and whining and saying people script its just how it is and always will be.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 10:14.

[Pardoux]

What do you think removing FSH will do to the possible scripting community? What will it do other than inconvenience your average player that uses FSH. I just really want to hear your opinion on this matter. Because i really can't come up with any pro's on my end.

 

Removing the FSH will make it harder for folk to cheat - simple.

 

Modifying an existing script is a LOT easier than writing a script from scratch - just as modifying some CSS is simpler than writing one from scratch and modifying HTML is simpler than writing from scratch.

Remove access to the "core" script and you - potentially at least - eliminate some of those cheats from using it because, whilst they may have sufficient skills to modify something, they may not have the level of skill to write it from scratch.

 

I'm done tho discussing this with you - you resort to "idk what i have to say to beat this into your head" and "If your one of those people who still don't believe it well you have issues and need to open your eyes" comments when my argument doesn't coincide with yours.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, just as much as I am - but let's keep it civil, eh ?

[EpicPiety]

One of those was a general statement another not...Also you fail to understand that if someone is scripting they will continue to script no matter what resources they lose...if you can modify a script you have the knowledge to just make your own from scratch...I am keeping it civil though i am just having to repeat myself over and over again and i don't get an answer that justifies what you want done. It really seems like you are here just to cause a ruckus and inconvenience people who truthfully use FSH for its features. 1 person outta a sea of people misuse something and it has to go *well so you say people are*? That reminds me of my states politicians haha terrible just terrible. Like i was saying you have the right idea you are just going about it the wrong way getting rid of FSH isn't the right path to lessen scripting.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 21:38.

[Pardoux]

.if you can modify a script you have the knowledge to just make your own from scratch...I am keeping it civil though i am just having to repeat myself over and over again and i don't get an answer that justifies what you want done. It really seems like you are here just to cause a ruckus and inconvenience people who truthfully use FSH for its features. 1 person outta a sea of people misuse something and it has to go *well so you say people are*? That reminds me of my states politicians haha terrible just terrible. Like i was saying you have the right idea you are just going about it the wrong way getting rid of FSH isn't the right path to lessen scripting.

 

Did you read my post above ? -  Using myself as an example (hence my using CSS above) - I can modify CSS by trial and error to get it to do something slightly different but I wouldn't have a clue how to write a CSS file from scratch. Could I learn ? - of course - but that's not the point. One takes more skill than the other ..

 

Damn, you figured me out - of course I'm here to inconvenience as many players as possble - RIDICULOUS .. What my aim is, is to reduce cheating in the game. Pure and Simple. No ifs, no buts. I've stated that I would prefer FSH features built into the game - but that Zorg doesn't want to do that. So, it's blatantly obvious that I'm trying to help maintain / restore the game integrity. Rather than castigating me for suggesting removing the script, perhaps we should all be castigating Zorg for not wanting to implement it into the core game code ?.. We managed without the FSH before it came along and we could manage without it now, if necessary.

 

Rather than just saying the above, what is YOUR solution then ? - Just saying I'm going about it wrong does nothing - offer your own suggestions to stop cheaters prospering ...

 

(sorry for the multiple use of colours guys - had to reply to each section seperately and this seemed the easiest way .. )

[EpicPiety]

This so called cheating is hearsay...so i don't follow what you are attempting to do lol. You can say you have proof all you want to get things done but i won't just sit here and buy into it. Looks like you are just shooting in the dark pressing red buttons here attempting trying to fix something that may or may not be broken.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 21:56.

[j3k]

This went from should FSH be banned or not   to a calm civil debate 

when really we should be discussing about weather the Script detection   even works as Epic said it just slows you down if we get the script working then FSH cheaters really won't need to script if the detection works....

[EpicPiety]

I hinted at that j3k but that was just looked right over to argue more lol...That whole thing needs to be rewrote its obviously not working correctly.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 21:58.

[gomezkilla]

..I am keeping it civil though i am just having to repeat myself over and over again and i don't get an answer that justifies what you want done.

Sorry, but you're "civil" comments are basically saying "You're stupid.. *no offense* ".

 

 

 Like i was saying you have the right idea you are just going about it the wrong way getting rid of FSH isn't the right path to lessen scripting.

Bingo! That right there is the winning statement for me.

 

 

Removing the FSH will make it harder for folk to cheat - simple.

Harder to cheat? Yes. But once we take away FSH, won't that unintentionally create the challenge of finding a way to script/ "cheat".. and who doesn't love a challenge?

 

 

Suggestion:

For HCS, possible to just copy and paste the FSH code into the FS code? After careful review of course, but as Hoof mentioned before, there is the FS code we can see and the FS code (important) we can't see.

 

Sidenote: I would like to hear an example of the cheating going on. Without it, I don't really have anything to offer for a solution.

 

I said earlier that FSH was a tool to be used by us. Can't we use tools as we wish to use them?

 

This looks like a small explosion happened in a paint shop. 

 

Gomez. 

[EpicPiety]

Pretty much gomez...Pretty much...you get me  . Except for the calling him stupid part...hes not dumb hes just on the wrong path IMO. What hes attempting to do will get no results.

Edited by Intimidation, 01 July 2014 - 22:04.

[Pardoux]

This so called cheating is hearsay...so i don't follow what you are attempting to do lol. You can say you have proof all you want to get things done but i won't just sit here and buy into it. Looks like you are just shooting in the dark pressing red buttons here attempting trying to fix something that may or may not be broken.

 

As I said earlier, to Kildek I think, I don't need to provide proof of FSH cheating to you - I provided it to the cows, it was confirmed and the player reprimanded.

 

If they didn't find my proof sufficient, then, like (as you've said previously) other tickets submitted alleging cheating, no action would be taken.

 

It's really THAT simple.

Irrefutable proof of cheating = Player punished.

Allegation with little/no proof = player investigated and action determined from results

 

Malicious allegation = No action and reporter punished

[EpicPiety]

I just don't understand what proof you could have found.