62 replies to this topic

[2good4u222]

Can we please do something about these prices? I refuse to believe this is just a ''natural economy''. Yesterday it hit an all time high for me personally, 245,000 for one fsp.

We all know the problem this poses, so why is nothing being done to stop it?
Any ideas?

[Savanc]

I've seen much higher prices than 245k before (even when the normal FSP price was 10%-30% lower than it is today).
Some people seem to post a high amount of gold if they fear it'd get stolen. Also a few players I know (lower level players) would place all their hunting gold on the MP because any leftovers would get stolen before they make any more gold (for a new FSP).

The MP prices however have risen a bit over the last few weeks/months. If there was an easy solution to the problem of rising MP prices then it would have been implemented already.
The game functions on both the gold inflow and outflow and the in and outflow of FSPs.
Years ago the players were still small level players and they earned only a bit of gold per hunt. But the gold per creature increases until a certain level (level 300 if my memory is correct). After that players earn the same amount of gold per creature (actually per stamina) as level 300 players. So when more and more players got to level 300+ the average amount of gold that got into the game grew rapidly.
There are several ways that gold leaves the game. For example forging, scavenging, certain potions on the AH, the Potion Bazaar, items in shops (also used during many high level quests), PvP, GvG initiating, Arena, etc.
The same goes for FSP, but that depends on players donating instead of players hunting. And the FSPs leave the game through some of the same ways gold leaves the game (hellforging, GvG initiating) and through crafting, character upgrades, etc.
Btw, if players trade items (ST or on the AH) or buy each others buffs then neither gold nor FSPs leave the game; they just move to different players.

FSPs are the safest way to keep your 'money' safe, so a lot of players trade their hunting gold in for FSPs. If people could spend their gold on other things they think is worth to spend it on or if they would earn less gold per creature/stamina then the price of gold per FSP would decrease.

HCS has tried both ways multiple times. For example, the scavenging caves are a gold sink and the potions it brings get used.
LE events and Global events make players use up their stamina. That way less stamina is used to earn gold with. Also the buff Sacrifice got introduced which makes players earn less gold but more XP; it even got made more available as it is in the Global Event reward potions.
One 'solution' that is hardly a solution is to make upgrades cost gold instead of FSPs. It would sink a lot of gold of course. But the only way people can get FSPs into the game is through donating and doing offers that make HCS earn money. If it would be possible to do the upgrades with gold then HCS would lose some income due to less donations/offers.

[2good4u222]

I've seen much higher prices than 245k before (even when the normal FSP price was 10%-30% lower than it is today).
Some people seem to post a high amount of gold if they fear it'd get stolen. Also a few players I know (lower level players) would place all their hunting gold on the MP because any leftovers would get stolen before they make any more gold (for a new FSP).

The MP prices however have risen a bit over the last few weeks/months. If there was an easy solution to the problem of rising MP prices then it would have been implemented already.
The game functions on both the gold inflow and outflow and the in and outflow of FSPs.
Years ago the players were still small level players and they earned only a bit of gold per hunt. But the gold per creature increases until a certain level (level 300 if my memory is correct). After that players earn the same amount of gold per creature (actually per stamina) as level 300 players. So when more and more players got to level 300+ the average amount of gold that got into the game grew rapidly.
There are several ways that gold leaves the game. For example forging, scavenging, certain potions on the AH, the Potion Bazaar, items in shops (also used during many high level quests), PvP, GvG initiating, Arena, etc.
The same goes for FSP, but that depends on players donating instead of players hunting. And the FSPs leave the game through some of the same ways gold leaves the game (hellforging, GvG initiating) and through crafting, character upgrades, etc.
Btw, if players trade items (ST or on the AH) or buy each others buffs then neither gold nor FSPs leave the game; they just move to different players.

FSPs are the safest way to keep your 'money' safe, so a lot of players trade their hunting gold in for FSPs. If people could spend their gold on other things they think is worth to spend it on or if they would earn less gold per creature/stamina then the price of gold per FSP would decrease.

HCS has tried both ways multiple times. For example, the scavenging caves are a gold sink and the potions it brings get used.
LE events and Global events make players use up their stamina. That way less stamina is used to earn gold with. Also the buff Sacrifice got introduced which makes players earn less gold but more XP; it even got made more available as it is in the Global Event reward potions.
One 'solution' that is hardly a solution is to make upgrades cost gold instead of FSPs. It would sink a lot of gold of course. But the only way people can get FSPs into the game is through donating and doing offers that make HCS earn money. If it would be possible to do the upgrades with gold then HCS would lose some income due to less donations/offers.

This I understand and could readily recite at any given moment. My question is how the heck did it naturally reach 250 and above?
Would it be possible to reset the marketplace at 50k (like the now feeble upgrade in the upgrade tab) to stabilize the game? Lower levels suffer the most, and in turn we, the higher up, pay for it. I just can't even fathom..

Would it be rational to introduce a certain degree of *tax* when you deposit? say 1-5%. Small, but it would help. May encourage people to keep more gold in hand rather than hide it away. Remove PvP protection and increase the amount sunk when hit. Even more sinking right there. I understand it is a long process, but it can't keep going like this..

[celendais]

At current gold rates its one of the key factors why there are 500-800 players online.

The sudden rise might be effect of global quest potions?

I have no knowledge of gold flow in game ( how much is lost in arena, forging, special sections, scavenging and so on and how much is flowing in through hunting).

Previous proposals for gold sink are many. A quick fix would be to toss non tradable XP boosters into the special section.

[iut044]

This I understand and could readily recite at any given moment. My question is how the heck did it naturally reach 250 and above?
Would it be possible to reset the marketplace at 50k (like the now feeble upgrade in the upgrade tab) to stabilize the game?

Players will just stop selling fsp on the marketplace if a cap imposed but a third scavenging cave with some good potions will help cool the marketplace down .

[scarsick]

Another solution might be a Sacrifice500 potion in the Special section of Ah...that's priced at 5 million - 10 million. Not only, would buying the potion sink gold...but the potion itself would help in reducing gold flow into the game

Or maybe a different potion altogether, one that uses up gold to give more GUILD XP per kill

[2good4u222]

The biggest culprit in my opinion are MP profiteers using PvP Protection to artificially inflate the MP. I have had some long conversations with one player which after a 30 second search of players over lvl 1000 holding 10million gold was very easy to find. He informed me that the profiteers were doing a service by buying all the high priced gold, and no one would buy the protection if they could not recoup their investment.

This is the number one reason I despise PvP Protection. It has to go, no rebuttal.

Players will just stop selling fsp on the marketplace if a cap imposed but a third scavenging cave with some good potions will help cool the marketplace down.

I like the idea of this cap, but do you think HCS would really jump up and down for it?

[Denyza]

Listen you protection haters.
PvP protection has very little effect to MP inflation.

The main reason why FSP price gradually raises is because the game mechanics make it so. The very concept of the game mechanics is all players, after a certain amount of time will have stamina, which would be used mostly to hunt, which ultimately yield profit in form of golds. In other words, golds are naturally produced within the game in a steady basis, while FSPs... are not. This is a fact.

Players with PvP protection, may raise FSPs price by massive selling; or reduce it by massive buying.
Either way it's still a mere hypothesis, a hearsay at worst.

Please, stop using forum to justify your hatred. It's just wrong.

[Eleonora2]

Maybe protection has a limited role but doubt it would be much.

So good to name some other factors:
1. Human psychology: someone who has seen fsp's been bought for 250k may not be willing to sell for much less. If there's people around that are willing to go that high why would they settle for less?
2. PvP: no doubt without PvP the MP would be very very different. The hunter holding the gold instead of feeling the urge to lower on hand gold would just bide his time. As is they do feel the urge and this leads to offering higher and higher amounts of gold per fsp, reinforcing the first point. Also this is why market manipulation can be effective. Maybe delisting should be disabled
3. The recent increases in stam gaining options (starter pack, epic quests): higher stam gain directly increases gold inflow. I hope future epic quest will have other rewards and force choices. Like increase max buff level to 180 or get x free attribute points or get a permanent y% bonus to some enhancement. (just spouting some options without really thinking through consequences)

[2good4u222]

Maybe protection has a limited role but doubt it would be much.

So good to name some other factors:
1. Human psychology: someone who has seen fsp's been bought for 250k may not be willing to sell for much less. If there's people around that are willing to go that high why would they settle for less?
2. PvP: no doubt without PvP the MP would be very very different. The hunter holding the gold instead of feeling the urge to lower on hand gold would just bide his time. As is they do feel the urge and this leads to offering higher and higher amounts of gold per fsp, reinforcing the first point. Also this is why market manipulation can be effective. Maybe delisting should be disabled
3. The recent increases in stam gaining options (starter pack, epic quests): higher stam gain directly increases gold inflow. I hope future epic quest will have other rewards and force choices. Like increase max buff level to 180 or get x free attribute points or get a permanent y% bonus to some enhancement. (just spouting some options without really thinking through consequences)

Being an arena player, I could add an idea that may not be liked but eh.

''Participation Tokens''
You obtain these tokens for entering the arena (more gold sink, faster arenas, hopefully) which can be exchanged for (undetermined) level 200 potions. Of course, you'd have to enter a number of arenas before having enough tokens.

Just an idea

[Wesleysdf]

Maybe protection has a limited role but doubt it would be much.

So good to name some other factors:
1. Human psychology: someone who has seen fsp's been bought for 250k may not be willing to sell for much less. If there's people around that are willing to go that high why would they settle for less?
2. PvP: no doubt without PvP the MP would be very very different. The hunter holding the gold instead of feeling the urge to lower on hand gold would just bide his time. As is they do feel the urge and this leads to offering higher and higher amounts of gold per fsp, reinforcing the first point. Also this is why market manipulation can be effective. Maybe delisting should be disabled
3. The recent increases in stam gaining options (starter pack, epic quests): higher stam gain directly increases gold inflow. I hope future epic quest will have other rewards and force choices. Like increase max buff level to 180 or get x free attribute points or get a permanent y% bonus to some enhancement. (just spouting some options without really thinking through consequences)

Being an arena player, I could add an idea that may not be liked but eh.

''Participation Tokens''
You obtain these tokens for entering the arena (more gold sink, faster arenas, hopefully) which can be exchanged for (undetermined) level 200 potions. Of course, you'd have to enter a number of arenas before having enough tokens.

Just an idea

make those potions bound and you have a pretty good suggestion

[DragonLord]

Maybe protection has a limited role but doubt it would be much.

So good to name some other factors:
1. Human psychology: someone who has seen fsp's been bought for 250k may not be willing to sell for much less. If there's people around that are willing to go that high why would they settle for less?
2. PvP: no doubt without PvP the MP would be very very different. The hunter holding the gold instead of feeling the urge to lower on hand gold would just bide his time. As is they do feel the urge and this leads to offering higher and higher amounts of gold per fsp, reinforcing the first point. Also this is why market manipulation can be effective. Maybe delisting should be disabled
3. The recent increases in stam gaining options (starter pack, epic quests): higher stam gain directly increases gold inflow. I hope future epic quest will have other rewards and force choices. Like increase max buff level to 180 or get x free attribute points or get a permanent y% bonus to some enhancement. (just spouting some options without really thinking through consequences)

Being an arena player, I could add an idea that may not be liked but eh.

''Participation Tokens''
You obtain these tokens for entering the arena (more gold sink, faster arenas, hopefully) which can be exchanged for (undetermined) level 200 potions. Of course, you'd have to enter a number of arenas before having enough tokens.

Just an idea

make those potions bound and you have a pretty good suggestion

You think ?? - aren't the rewards from the arena enough as it is ? - plus the medals ??

[2good4u222]

You think ?? - aren't the rewards from the arena enough as it is ? - plus the medals ??

Arena is probably the most difficult PvP to actually be successful in. I see a lot of people try and give up. This will reward their efforts. I'm not trying to reward to rich to become richer, trying to cause a gold sink through faster arenas. Arena is, as I see it, relatively dead. Even after repeated personal attempts to revive it with threads to encourage participation. This could bring it back and sink some unwanted gold at the same time.

make those potions bound and you have a pretty good suggestion

And of course, the pots would be bound.

[DragonLord]

[quote name="2good4u222"][quote]You think ?? - aren't the rewards from the arena enough as it is ? - plus the medals ??[/quote]


Arena is probably the most difficult PvP to actually be successful in. I see a lot of people try and give up. This will reward their efforts. I'm not trying to reward to rich to become richer, trying to cause a gold sink through faster arenas. Arena is, as I see it, relatively dead. Even after repeated personal attempts to revive it with threads to encourage participation. This could bring it back and sink some unwanted gold at the same time.[/quote]

I know it's not easy - I have my bronze medal in it. The point being tho, there are ample rewards for partaking in the arena already without giving away free L200 potions too.

[quote]make those potions bound and you have a pretty good suggestion[/quote]
And of course, the pots would be bound.[/quote]

Bound would be an absolute minimum requirement if they were to be introduced, but I'd personally not see them at all.

[2good4u222]

As I said, it isn't a give away. It would take say, 25-50 entries to obtain the potion. You will be losing money more often than not. It is a mere participation booster and gold sinker. Think of it as a consolation or participation award. There may be many opportunities for rewards, but often winning them is not the case.

[2good4u222]

Fair call.

I don't think the color changes could really be applied to FS. I'd imagine the coding to be horrid to do

[DragonLord]

As I said, it isn't a give away. It would take say, 25-50 entries to obtain the potion. You will be losing money more often than not. It is a mere participation booster and gold sinker. Think of it as a consolation or participation award. There may be many opportunities for rewards, but often winning them is not the case.

There are many opportunities for winning the ladder too - should they get bonus prizes as well ?

Where are the bonus prizes for levelling ?

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this ? - leastwise, I hope you do

[2good4u222]

Ladder isn't one competition, it is various attacks, meaning you have a chance to redeem yourself. In arena, you flat out lose.

Levelling isn't even a competition.

I see where you are going with this, but it is flawed logic