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Legacy Roadmap 2014 Vote


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Poll: Legacy Roadmap Vote (97 member(s) have cast votes)

Which updates would you most like to see on Legacy?

  1. Rogue Viability (14 votes [6.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.19%

  2. Warfare Enhancements (35 votes [15.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.49%

  3. Warfare Shop Items (55 votes [24.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.34%

  4. Raid / Arena System (45 votes [19.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.91%

  5. Inventory Revamp (48 votes [21.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.24%

  6. Hospital Closing Time Removal (Small Change) (21 votes [9.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.29%

  7. Crystal Levelling (8 votes [3.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.54%

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#21 Nastasha

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:22

I am hearing from some Rogues through PM that they do like the idea. I am hoping they will come here and vote as well. I hope that Zorg will consider each Rogue vote as +2 to the number, but that is just my view how to make it a little more fair.

 

And as a refresher for some that may not have heard what Zorg said on the idea;

 

 

Rogue Viability

Rather than add a 5th gang I like the idea of allowing Rogues to use the Wasteland. So you go rogue, you get a "days as rogue" counter much like the "time as a member" counter for in a gang. Gangs can then white list you against their guards.

 

So if you're white listed by a gang that gangs guards will not attack you, you will also gain the ability to spawn from their HQ. If you're not on any white lists you will spawn randomly in to the Wasteland. You cannot capture land, but you can help degrade gangs control down to 0% if you sit on a square. You can attack anyone but you'll only be able to phase in to white listed gangs territory or neutral / contested squares.

 

The idea of this would be both 'Mercinary Clans' that help the highest bidder and an out for players who enjoy warfare but are tired of gang politics.

 


Less esthetics, more fixes!

#WeThePeople!

 

www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#22 zvasbinder

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 17:18

i think rouges being allowed in wl is stupid... if you wanna wl you join a gang. it is as simple as that. why try changing something that doesnt need changed :/? a few years ago this would have been good but the game isnt as active as it was when this could have been a good update.



#23 BadPenny

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 18:50

I'm know I'm new around here, but don't you think new players would be more likely to stay if they had more options?


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#24 Bentley

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 19:02

I think Rogues should b able 2 enter the Wasteland and work as Mercenary's. It would make the game more interesting. I think it would b cool 2 give Rogues more run of the game.



#25 Nastasha

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 00:04

Or if Rogues want to WL, they can vote and hopefully the change will come eventually. Then once again they still have a choice. Just a more interesting choices is all. No one is forcing anyone anywhere.


Less esthetics, more fixes!

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www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#26 Tricks

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 03:48

Or if Rogues want to WL, they can vote and hopefully the change will come eventually. Then once again they still have a choice. Just a more interesting choices is all. No one is forcing anyone anywhere.

Alternatively we can work on changes that actually give a positive outcome, rather than allow players to circumvent the systems in place and try to be 'independent' while being in a 'gang' temporarily. Rogues being involved in the Wasteland can be done by joining a gang, ignoring the gang politics if you so wish and switching when you feel like it; there is no point to add a mercenary system when all it does is further shift balances of power for the worse, with no particular reason beyond "Well I want to do what I want when I'm Rogue, and I'm too lazy to join a gang, change the game for me!"

 

If you're so tired of gang politics I suggest you ignore the forum in a gang, don't vote, etc, and then go Wasteland. It's the equivalent of your 'solution' to a non existent 'problem' that doesn't waste valuable programming time for the game, and that time can be used to fix ACTUAL issues and unbalances within the game.



#27 Kruxx

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 00:46

How? Tyran's rule that the gangs moved their conflict out of his hive so they wouldn't damage it, voiced through Seraph.

To do so, guards were employed from X-Corp. They are what carry you back when you expo.

 

A rogue would not have this liberty, so "realiztically" they wouldn't want to go out there, get knocked out, and suffer permadeath due to being left to rot.

 

All this requires is a little effort in the way of some good storytelling. This game seriously LACKS any continuing storyline, or advances in the lore or things we already know. So what if Seraph and X-Corp got tired of carrying out this task, due to such a huge increase in avatars and gang violence overall. Have random X-Corp spawnings in the WL to fight everyone, and make them actually challenging! Then have random groups of beings working for Tyran, hunting down X-Corp, and fighting all gangs. Force gangs to stop fighting each other on the occasional square to fend off these random instances.

 

This story driven distraction could allow Rogues to enter the WL, since others are too busy to keep them out. Make it a little more challenging for Rogues as they are targetted by X-Corp and Tyran's forces.  Rogues could then do some of the things mentioned, like hire on for other gangs when scales are tipped oddly in the WL, etc. Or just have Rogues do what Rogues do, whatever they feel like, since they are not tied down to gang restraints.

 

It's easy to tell people to join a gang and ignore gang directives and politics, but that doesn't always work. Imagine small groups within a gang attacking the wrong gang and pissing off leadership, it causes just as many annoying issues.

 

I've never understood why keeping rogues out, was such an issue for some, when it could entertain players and just add more to the game as a whole, and gaming experience for players. New things, and options, allow for more to do in a game.

 

I can understand people wanting some things balanced, fixed, or correctedin some way. But the game's fight engine/randomness/probablity issues have never been really fixed, and that was years ago that many people stood up for it, and it's still an annoying issue. So it looks like that and many other things just are not the kind of thing Zorg has time for or wants to deal with.


Edited by Kruxx, 06 December 2014 - 00:49.


#28 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 20:41

I'll start playing again when i can actually acquire equipment drops from hunting NPCs..  I've out leveled certain item drops that i want to get because of the reduction on drop rates after a certain amount of levels and with teh gear i get from leveling, it isn't enough to properly battle NPCs of my current level.. Increase the drop rates within the first half of the game.. i've spent 1000s and 1000s of credits and have NEVER got an equipment drop.. that's very discouraging and i'd rather go play something that i'm actually rewarded in


 


#29 RebornJedi

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 20:56

another 750+ spent and 75+ slaughtered.. got enough revival kits to bring back every player in the game but no equipment.. and out leveled another NPC so my drop rate is 5x worse.. if it's now 5x worse, what the hell was the drop rate before...


 


#30 Nastasha

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:46

RebornJedi brings up a good point, there are aspects of the game that are "broken" and effect player retention.

 

Again, player retention. As in all those new players we see come in every single day? Find ways to keep them! Letting them Choose what gang they are in at the start, giving them more options then just 4 tired gangs full of inactive players, and bringing diversity to the Wasteland is likely to keep new (overwhelmed, confused, bored) players around.

 

Let's be honest here. Legacy is dying. Kids these days don't want a confusing text-based RPG when they can have a fancy flashy eye-gasm button mashing console game for $20 on Xbox Live. The fact this game is PLAYER driven (not NPC driven), as well as the human made stratigy and politics is what kept most all of you playing for 5+ years. It's the living element that mattered to just about every one of us. The human made politics and stratigy that set's this game appart from similar games, and even most modern games that are linier and not player driven and have a "Game Over" screen eventually.

 

Think about it. Put your Legacy Newbie/ Lowbie cap on for a sec-

Warfare Enhancements-

"Oh look, this game has more then 4 buildings for each gang on this battle field! I am hooked for life!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Warfare Shop Items-

"Oh look, they have a shop with a lot of stuff that I can buy with points I get in the battlefield! Never seen this before! Totally hooked!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Arena System-

"Oh look, a NPC wave system! I have never seen anything like this in my whole wide life! Take my money!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Raid System-

"Finally! A text-base version of what I can do on those prettier games! Just what I always wanted!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Inventory Revamp-

"Oh look, I can carry a rediculious amount of stuff just like any good fantastical game! So telling my friends about this!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Hospital Revamp-

"I can heal myself whenever I want! Thought I was going to have to press "reset" for a second there. Mom look what I can do!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Crystal Levelling-

"I can make things stronger! Never seen that in my whole wide life! Texting all my friends!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Rogue Viability-

"Oh, I can enter a wasteland now? What are these colors?! So this is why those other people are telling me to join their gang! I would like to claim territory too!"

 

(Sticks around, joins gang, time passes)

 

"Wow that gang was really realistic in a way, I wonder what the other gangs are like! There are like a bunch of options and a really rich player-based experiance! Never played a game like this before!"

 

;)

 

Player retention. One step closer to fixing this tired, old, silent, static game.

 

This does not mean those other modifications are not needed, because they absolutely are needed. But they are not likely to Keep new players playing in and of themselves.

 

Choice. Diversity. Options. Rich community. Ever-changing politics.

 

That is what makes this game unique! We have a chance to lead with our best foot forward instead of keep showing new players how broken and boring this game is without those above factors..


Less esthetics, more fixes!

#WeThePeople!

 

www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#31 Kizaaz

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:16

I am hearing from some Rogues through PM that they do like the idea. I am hoping they will come here and vote as well. I hope that Zorg will consider each Rogue vote as +2 to the number, but that is just my view how to make it a little more fair.

 

 

I just dont see how you think allowing a rogue vote to count as +2 makes it "fair". No offence intended, i understand where your coming from with what your saying but giving more weight to certain "gangs" or "non-gangs" isnt fair



#32 Kizaaz

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:29

glitched hard haha ___ ignore this post


Edited by Kizaaz, 09 December 2014 - 05:31.


#33 Kizaaz

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:31


Rogue Viability-

"Oh, I can enter a wasteland now? What are these colors?! So this is why those other people are telling me to join their gang! I would like to claim territory too!"

 

(Sticks around, joins gang, time passes)

 

"Wow that gang was really realistic in a way, I wonder what the other gangs are like! There are like a bunch of options and a really rich player-based experiance! Never played a game like this before!"

 

When you first sign up, you are put in a gang. At level 10, they would get to enter the wasteland... (dont need to be rogue to do that)

What are these colours... well .. anyone in a gang can also see those colours

Other people will always be telling them to join there gang.. regardless of affiliation

When in the gang they are put in at first... they can claim territory

in regards to the last part

When you are placed in your home gang ( I was bod) you will still wonder what other gangs are like, you will know first hand what they are like, you learn that all while in the gang. You shouldnt be a rogue to experience those things,....

 

Choice of words is key when trying to make a point for example:
 

Oh. im just going to leave this gang right here who seems to be helping me, just to do what I can do while in this gang... minus the help.. TOTALLY gonna do it !

not likely to happen

 

 

Rogues choose to be rogues. They have a forum, to interact though many do not stay rogue long... because they dont want to. If they want to wasteland... join a gang. SImple as that.


Edited by Kizaaz, 09 December 2014 - 05:37.


#34 Nastasha

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 09:18

-.-

 

(That is my not amused face in case it isn't clear enough)

 

You all keep missing the point. I have zero illusions to how the game currently works. I keep talking about how it could work.

 

If you argue a point based on how it is now, your point is by default invalid. This entire discussion is about how it could be!

 

I don't know about you all were born, but in life there are choices. You don't pop out of the womb in a gang.... Even if your parents were several generations deep into a street gang and that is just how life was, sure perhaps it is harder to say you didn't start as rogue and began life affiliated with a gang.... maybe but even that is far-fetched.

 

This change will add realism to the game. Imagine a world where you start out as O.O Independent! Then once you build up your skills you realize there is a battlefield. In this battlefield there are gangs, and those gangs claim territory! Then are you given an actual, practical, intended, self-driven choice to move to what ever gang you want. Or stay where you are as Rogue. Whatever. Or never enter the Wasteland. Up to the player to decide that at this point.

 

Again the emphasis is on personal choice not game algorithms that auto-assign.

 

Sorry people, new players don't know what their choices are, nor where to find the answers to that question simply, and the trolls in Side Chat are only mildly helpful at time and that is hit or miss.

 

Anyone that has played WoW or the millions of similar games knows that those games are Choice Driven! You (not the computer) picks what "gang" (or race/class/guild whatever) you want to go into.

 

This game expects new players to find their "Character Creation" screen then hopefully find a way to find where the option to "Leave Gang", then the option to "Join Gang". It may be simple for you to figure out having been here for a long time, but you are not the new players entering this confusing text-based game for the first time now are you?

 

I wasn't around when the gang system started, but here is my point- You all started as Rogue. You just don't see it that way. You were rogue, the game was updated/modified to have actual gangs instead of just clans (which you also started out independent of, then created or joined), then you had a personal choice. A personal choice that ever new player since then was not given right away like you did.

 

Seriously think about that for a second!

 

"What about imbalances?!"

 

Good question.... Kinda. Not really. It is simple if you think about it.

 

The imbalances will balance it out. That is how warfare works. One side kills the other, then the war is over, or your own team mates back stab you, or you change your mind and join the other team and the tide shifts. One side needs help so they hire a 3rd (rogue/independant/unafiliated) party. Some souldures may put their weapons down and refuse to go into the battlefield, and may return a different time. So on and so forth over and over and over.

 

War. War never changes.

 

The shifting of tides is what makes it interesting in the first place. Making it harder for tides to shift is counter-intuitive, impractical, and clearly not working.

 

Imbalance is a part of warfare and trying to "fix it" by forcing new players into gangs they don't understand or want to resonate with or care for is a very silly idea. Numbers don't matter, activity and effectiveness matters. Why are we trying to make the number of (mostly inactive) players even across each gang?

 

Last I checked that is not how reality is whatsoever.

 

(BadPenny, what was it you were telling me they do with inactive players in Fallen Sword!?)

 

Right now the auto-asign to any gang system is breaking the game.

Face it. You know it, I know it, Zorg knows it, all "staff" knows it.

This is a fact, not matter of opinion.

 

Might this be a practical solution!?

 

The game could look like this. I know how it presently looks.

 

The fact that most of you have been AVs for years and years and forgot what it is like to be a newbie more or less makes your points questionable. I am new to the game, and a recent Rogue. I know exactly what it is like being new to this game, as the taste is still fresh on my tongue.

 

How it is now, is not the point. Flex your gray matter. Think out-side the box in order to understand what is outside the box and very well could be inside the box if you had that foresight.

 

Having "going rogue" being a "choice" that wasn't afforded in the first place is an oxymoron. Plain and simple. In reality one starts as "rogue" or unaffiliated and eventually feels out different gangs, and chooses to align with the one they like best. If they don't like their first choice, they move.

 

More choices, not less. Why on earth do some of you keep arguing that having choice in this matter would be a bad thing!?

 

I really don't understand how others don't get that the present system is broken, flawed, nonsensical, impractical, and not compelling to new players.

 

Or rather some of you are trying to argue that it is fine as it is... What?

 

Let's try this again;

 

Think about it. Put your Legacy Newbie/ Lowbie cap on for a sec-


Edited by Nastasha, 09 December 2014 - 09:49.

Less esthetics, more fixes!

#WeThePeople!

 

www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#35 Raiden

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 12:43

 

-.-

 

(That is my not amused face in case it isn't clear enough)

 

You all keep missing the point. I have zero illusions to how the game currently works. I keep talking about how it could work.

 

If you argue a point based on how it is now, your point is by default invalid. This entire discussion is about how it could be!

 

I don't know about you all were born, but in life there are choices. You don't pop out of the womb in a gang.... Even if your parents were several generations deep into a street gang and that is just how life was, sure perhaps it is harder to say you didn't start as rogue and began life affiliated with a gang.... maybe but even that is far-fetched.

 

This change will add realism to the game. Imagine a world where you start out as O.O Independent! Then once you build up your skills you realize there is a battlefield. In this battlefield there are gangs, and those gangs claim territory! Then are you given an actual, practical, intended, self-driven choice to move to what ever gang you want. Or stay where you are as Rogue. Whatever. Or never enter the Wasteland. Up to the player to decide that at this point.

 

Again the emphasis is on personal choice not game algorithms that auto-assign.

 

Sorry people, new players don't know what their choices are, nor where to find the answers to that question simply, and the trolls in Side Chat are only mildly helpful at time and that is hit or miss.

 

Anyone that has played WoW or the millions of similar games knows that those games are Choice Driven! You (not the computer) picks what "gang" (or race/class/guild whatever) you want to go into.

 

This game expects new players to find their "Character Creation" screen then hopefully find a way to find where the option to "Leave Gang", then the option to "Join Gang". It may be simple for you to figure out having been here for a long time, but you are not the new players entering this confusing text-based game for the first time now are you?

 

I wasn't around when the gang system started, but here is my point- You all started as Rogue. You just don't see it that way. You were rogue, the game was updated/modified to have actual gangs instead of just clans (which you also started out independent of, then created or joined), then you had a personal choice. A personal choice that ever new player since then was not given right away like you did.

 

Seriously think about that for a second!

 

"What about imbalances?!"

 

Good question.... Kinda. Not really. It is simple if you think about it.

 

The imbalances will balance it out. That is how warfare works. One side kills the other, then the war is over, or your own team mates back stab you, or you change your mind and join the other team and the tide shifts. One side needs help so they hire a 3rd (rogue/independant/unafiliated) party. Some souldures may put their weapons down and refuse to go into the battlefield, and may return a different time. So on and so forth over and over and over.

 

War. War never changes.

 

The shifting of tides is what makes it interesting in the first place. Making it harder for tides to shift is counter-intuitive, impractical, and clearly not working.

 

Imbalance is a part of warfare and trying to "fix it" by forcing new players into gangs they don't understand or want to resonate with or care for is a very silly idea. Numbers don't matter, activity and effectiveness matters. Why are we trying to make the number of (mostly inactive) players even across each gang?

 

Last I checked that is not how reality is whatsoever.

 

(BadPenny, what was it you were telling me they do with inactive players in Fallen Sword!?)

 

Right now the auto-asign to any gang system is breaking the game.

Face it. You know it, I know it, Zorg knows it, all "staff" knows it.

This is a fact, not matter of opinion.

 

Might this be a practical solution!?

 

The game could look like this. I know how it presently looks.

 

The fact that most of you have been AVs for years and years and forgot what it is like to be a newbie more or less makes your points questionable. I am new to the game, and a recent Rogue. I know exactly what it is like being new to this game, as the taste is still fresh on my tongue.

 

How it is now, is not the point. Flex your gray matter. Think out-side the box in order to understand what is outside the box and very well could be inside the box if you had that foresight.

 

Having "going rogue" being a "choice" that wasn't afforded in the first place is an oxymoron. Plain and simple. In reality one starts as "rogue" or unaffiliated and eventually feels out different gangs, and chooses to align with the one they like best. If they don't like their first choice, they move.

 

More choices, not less. Why on earth do some of you keep arguing that having choice in this matter would be a bad thing!?

 

I really don't understand how others don't get that the present system is broken, flawed, nonsensical, impractical, and not compelling to new players.

 

Or rather some of you are trying to argue that it is fine as it is... What?

 

Let's try this again;

 

Think about it. Put your Legacy Newbie/ Lowbie cap on for a sec-

 

 

 

Let's break this down.

 

"I don't know about you all were born, but in life there are choices. You don't pop out of the womb in a gang.... Even if your parents were several generations deep into a street gang and that is just how life was, sure perhaps it is harder to say you didn't start as rogue and began life affiliated with a gang.... maybe but even that is far-fetched."

 

Even IF the player started out as rogue, had enough credits to join a gang and maintain leftover funds to do so they are STILL going to join the strongest gang. There is no real solution to who will join what gang based on activity and community, you're going to pick the powerful gang no doubts about it.

 

"Imbalance is a part of warfare and trying to "fix it" by forcing new players into gangs they don't understand or want to resonate with or care for is a very silly idea. Numbers don't matter, activity and effectiveness matters. Why are we trying to make the number of (mostly inactive) players even across each gang?"

 

Again with the previous answer, Imbalance has been something that was probably brought up ages ago and never touched, is being revived once again and can't be fixed. If you've noticed. NO ONE  has ever brought it up again because others have just say to hell with it and moved on.

 

The basis of what you're trying to get across when it comes to allowing rogues into wasteland (even though I applaud your efforts thus far to broaden your points) isn't something that will be agreed upon so sudden. As Aaron said, the game basically states that Tyran made the rule through Seraph and to change it now would basically be saying "Oh well it just donned on me to let this change here we go."

 

The purpose of joining a gang is to come together as a group and take out foe(s) and achieve dominace through territory control. You will have ties with other gangs, even ones you're AT WAR WITH, and you will probably stab them in the back because that's what you're gonna have to do to win.

 

"The fact that most of you have been AVs for years and years and forgot what it is like to be a newbie more or less makes your points questionable. I am new to the game, and a recent Rogue. I know exactly what it is like being new to this game, as the taste is still fresh on my tongue."

 

This is completely ignorant on every standard. The fact that you're questioning the point of an Avatar, moreso someone who has been here for years is complete arrogance. Everyone went through the same process of going from start to what is currently endgame as far as gear, leveling, and every game aspect goes. EVERY point is just as good as the one before it and the one after it.

 

I'm just coming off being a lowbie/newbie for a little over a year now, so it's still fresh in my mind what I worked to get where I wanted to me/what I still want to work to be. This also has nothing to do with the fact of Rogues being in the Wasteland.

 

 

"Having "going rogue" being a "choice" that wasn't afforded in the first place is an oxymoron. Plain and simple. In reality one starts as "rogue" or unaffiliated and eventually feels out different gangs, and chooses to align with the one they like best. If they don't like their first choice, they move.

 

More choices, not less. Why on earth do some of you keep arguing that having choice in this matter would be a bad thing!?

 

I really don't understand how others don't get that the present system is broken, flawed, nonsensical, impractical, and not compelling to new players."

 

Assume what you must, a player is put into a gang to allow them the introduction and guidance through the gang they are in, and guidance through the game. You're NOT going to see a new player instantly jump to another gang off the bat (only time would most likely be to join a friend. That's really it.) A player will level a bit, check wasteland for the first time, and then maybe join said game but that's again with the imbalance.

 

 

TL;DR?

 

Complaining about imbalaces is something that's been going on for too long.

 

Having lowbies starting in rogue and joining various gangs is just the same as having them start in one gang and moving to another

 

Pointing fingers to get a point across just draws your point back even further. Stick to your point and stop lashing out.

 

Questioning the points of a long-time avatar is rediculous and arrogant all at the same time, take criticism from everyone the same as the last and deal with it. Every Av went through the same grief  of leveling as you and I did.


Edited by Raiden, 09 December 2014 - 12:44.


#36 RebornJedi

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 17:35

Think about it. Put your Legacy Newbie/ Lowbie cap on for a sec-

 


Warfare Shop Items-

"Oh look, they have a shop with a lot of stuff that I can buy with points I get in the battlefield! Never seen this before! Totally hooked!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Inventory Revamp-

"Oh look, I can carry a rediculious amount of stuff just like any good fantastical game! So telling my friends about this!"

(Not likely to happen)

 

Hospital Revamp-

"I can heal myself whenever I want! Thought I was going to have to press "reset" for a second there. Mom look what I can do!"

(Not likely to happen)

These three would actually be very helpful for new players..

 

If i can't get equipment from NPCs then i rather be able to fight in the wastelands with my gang to buy items with warfare.. But i'm gonna assume that all the items will be for Avatars and the newbies will be left out because the wasteland is made for AVs? Personally the wastelands is a big part why when i came back to this game, i stayed for awhile.. it felt good to help my gang even though i wasn't at EOC.. new players can be very helpful in teh WL and need to have rewards for them as well...

 

The inventory is outdated and could have a better flow of interaction.. Remember that mobile devices are the future of gaming and should always be on teh mind of a designer.. this game isn't that friendly to mobile devices but with little visual and certain button/mouseover interaction changes, it could get a lot better..

 

24/7 Hospital visits would make it easier for new players to play whenever they want and be able to have the advantage of the healing system without having to buy from the market using their hard earned credits they could save and use to advance their character...


 


#37 Luc2

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 00:56

Natasha, while I do think that you bring up some pretty alright points, I really don't think you're remembering what exactly it was like to be a lowbie. The new tutorial system is great, if you haven't played through it recently, try doing so (you can reset it in one of the account options). The players are not likely to be confused at any point of it, and wasteland is introduced pretty soon into their experience, at level 10. Most people, if they aren't turned off by the fact that this is a text-based RPG, will enter the wasteland on their first day of play, second, at the most. I don't see how entering a grid filled with colored squares is any more exciting than hitting a rat with a broken bottle. 



#38 Nastasha

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:58

Natasha, while I do think that you bring up some pretty alright points, I really don't think you're remembering what exactly it was like to be a lowbie. The new tutorial system is great, if you haven't played through it recently, try doing so (you can reset it in one of the account options). The players are not likely to be confused at any point of it, and wasteland is introduced pretty soon into their experience, at level 10. Most people, if they aren't turned off by the fact that this is a text-based RPG, will enter the wasteland on their first day of play, second, at the most. I don't see how entering a grid filled with colored squares is any more exciting than hitting a rat with a broken bottle. 

 

Thank you.

 

I am presently level 65. Been playing for less then a year. First account and first time playing any HC games. I have played a multitude of MMORPGs as well as a multitude of text-based gang-warfare "RPG"s. They lacked depth, lore, player choice, and player-driven politics. Thus I choose and stuck with Legacy. I am a lowbie and currently a Rogue.

 

The tutorial is great for showing the basics of playing the game. However it covers nothing related to gang customs or culture. Nor should it. However it would be nice if at the end of the Tutorial after reaching say level 15 there was a gang-choice screen within the tutorial. We seem to forget new players have a hard time finding the forums and/or library, and if they do they likely get overwhelmed.

 

"I don't see how entering a grid filled with colored squares is any more exciting than hitting a rat with a broken bottle"

 

You have a great point. it is simply point and click. The "action" and "excitement" is in their head. However player dynamics/player driven politics and our community (not broken bottles or color squares) is what keeps players playing. Trolls are all over Side Chat, and players are forced into a gang they don't know, might not like, nor feel any legitimate alliance to.

 

If you let them choose, they are more likely to be patriotic and feel a sense of belonging, and more likely to want to stay.


Less esthetics, more fixes!

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www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#39 Nastasha

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 13:03

These three would actually be very helpful for new players..

 

You are right, I completely agree. I never said the other options are not needed. However I don't think they directly effect player retention as much as giving players a "testing ground" for our gang politics. Starting brand new players as Rogue I feel is a huge step in that direction of letting them try things out a bit, then find a reason to stick around.

 

In truth one problem I do see with this idea as I propose it, is to be honest the gang symbols need a face-lift at the very least. The gangs as a whole are a bit stale, internally with the positions as well as externally with their visual appeal or lack there-of.


Less esthetics, more fixes!

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www.bit.ly/WTP-Roadmap

 


#40 Nastasha

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 14:16

@ Raiden

 

Thank you. Sincerely. You directly addressed a number of the key points.

 

"Even IF the player started out as rogue, had enough credits to join a gang and maintain leftover funds to do so they are STILL going to join the strongest gang."

 

That is assuming they all have your player-style, assuming that even is your player style. Which would prove my point. I have not checked so I don't know, but are you BoD? Is BoD the "strongest" gang? Will they forever be? No. Players make their own choices, and join or move from gangs for their own reasons. If a gang gets too top-heavy it topples. This has happened many times, and will over and over. That is how war is.

 

"There is no real solution to who will join what gang based on activity and community"

 

You are right, unless you force them into gangs. Which might piss them off. See my point? :) There is no "fixing" war "Imbalances". Imbalances simply is war. A balanced war is called "Peace" or it is simply "Boring". There is a different between a close call and a "balanced" game. Seeking balance is pointless. Seeking a positive player experience however, is an admirable goal. Chances are high player experience will increase if players feel they have a voice and a choice. Something currently players don't feel they have enough of. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

"you're going to pick the powerful gang no doubts about it"

 

I strongly disagree. I was forced into TC at sign-up, and I eventually thumbed around for several hours till I made my own choice. I choose DF, and far from because they were the "strongest". I can give a heck less about who is "strongest". I liked their heart and spirit and how they treated other players. And I liked the role-play aspect. I moved, and not to BoD whom is "the strongest". Not interested in the least. Wasn't then, not now. Not my player style. I am guessing not yours either, but I could be wrong. Raiden; do you gang-hop to whomever is winning gold in WL no matter what? Did you when you started? You have your own player-style, and so will new players of Legacy that we have not had the pleasure of meeting yet.

 

"Again with the previous answer, Imbalance has been something that was probably brought up ages ago and never touched, is being revived once again and can't be fixed. If you've noticed. NO ONE  has ever brought it up again because others have just say to hell with it and moved on."

 

I am glad for it. I am not talking about balancing all gangs out, that would be silly. I am talking about how to keep new players. The auto-assign algorithm did exactly what it was meant to do, mess things up. Forcing us to be patriotic for whoever is silly, and little do most players know but they can choose their gang. If they know exactly which consecutive 15+ or so clicks they must make to understand what gang they are in, what that means, what their options are, and how to change to another gang. And if they do finally find the "Leave Gang" option, they end up in Roguatory. That sucks. Really bad. The Rogues feature is broken. Now they have to try and loose reputation (which I do like), but in the mean-time they can't do a majority of what they could do prior (WL, train abilities they will use while in Rogues, level their gear simply etc.). The effort it takes to move from one gang to another is a huge burden, thus contributing to stale gang politics in my opinion. In my mind the solution is simple; let them be unaffiliated to start, then choose their gang, and move to another gang without feeling penalized unnecessarily for it. Tides will shift more, game becomes more alive because of it.

 

Choice is a powerful thing. It is the only thing we must all do. The only thing.

 

"The basis of what you're trying to get across when it comes to allowing rogues into wasteland... isn't something that will be agreed upon so sudden."

 

You are very right about that. How long has the "Rogue being a gang" or "5th gang" items been in the DtD thread!? A little background, the only reason I have been bringing this topic up since I started playing is because I sincerely believe it was a good idea. Kudos to whomever started that idea, it certainly wasn't me. I am not alone in this, even though I am currently one of the only ones being openly vocal about it. It would seem I finally have a "second follower"/co-leader beside me right now. See a recent topic in the game's Main Forums for more on that.

 

"(even though I applaud your efforts thus far to broaden your points)"

 

I had to really think on what you were trying to say there. I could be wrong, but this sounds like an insult. Just so we are clear; I moved from TC to get to DF instead, and I am being very vocal about a very unpopular topic. Getting "points" or whatever for forum posts does absolutely nothing to my sense of self. I also publicly expressed here I am genderfluid, poly, and kinky. I have zero problem being unpopular. Your player-style is not my player-style. You missed your target on that insult if that is what it was.

 

"As Aaron said, the game basically states that Tyran made the rule through Seraph and to change it now would basically be saying "Oh well it just donned on me to let this change here we go."

 

Creative minds expand on prior ideas constantly. That's how authors write a book series. That is how game writers write games. I am sure Zorg/HCS and/or their player base can find a creative solution around that "problem". I give us far more credit then that.

 

"The purpose of joining a gang is to come together as a group and take out foe(s) and achieve dominace through territory control."

 

... And?

 

"You will have ties with other gangs, even ones you're AT WAR WITH, and you will probably stab them in the back because that's what you're gonna have to do to win."

 

Not sure your point here, but I am guessing you are saying there are already politics in the game as it is. Noted and agreed. That is why this game is so interesting to me. I will even go out on a limb and say that is the primary if not the only reasons people play this game; the player-driven politics.

 

With that said all I am making clear is your player-driven politics are nerfed right now, and you don't realize it because you are in the thick of it. It doesn't have to be boring and pointless to be Rogue. It could be smoother transition between gangs. New players might be able to learn the game at a more realistic pace. This could be a very simple change to solve a lot of problems within the current gangs; Stagnation (not to be confused with imbalance). Put simply, our politics could be much more realistic. Right now we have a kinda-pseudo-not-really "independent/third party" that doesn't make any logical sense. Where in the lore does it say any new being that is born on this planet is born into a gang, and if so why? I get why Rogues don't gain territory, and why they don't have leadership. That makes sense. Why they wouldn't be a functional 3rd party does not. Nor does why they are not a natural starting point for new players born into the game.

 

"This is completely ignorant on every standard. The fact that you're questioning the point of an Avatar, moreso someone who has been here for years is complete arrogance."

 

I believe there is a very large miscommunication here. First, I am sorry it sounded like I was insulting AVs. That was not my intention. I may have mis-spoken. What I was trying to say is AVs may have forgotten what it was like to try and learn gang politics as well as game mechanics at the exact same time. That is all. I do remember what it was like, and I am able to try my best to communicate what it was like. I am attempting that right now, and I am sorry for not doing so on that point very well. I can see how it would sound ignorant or arrogant. My sincere apologies.

 

"Everyone went through the same process of going from start to what is currently endgame as far as gear, leveling, and every game aspect goes."

 

Agreed. Some simply did it more recently then others. That is all. Nothing wrong with that in the least. It just lends to our differing viewpoint. Once again my view related to Rogues/5th Gang was not "mine". I claim no ownership to it nor leadership in the spreading of it. Like those that came before me and those that came after me, I am simply giving a loud-speaker to what was already said. Players want choices. The choices right now are inadequate. That is all.

 

"I'm just coming off being a lowbie/newbie for a little over a year now"

 

I am glad to hear it is still fresh on your mind. Then can you answer these questions for me?

  1. Have you ever been Rogue, if you have been did you have fun as Rogue?
  2. Are you still in the gang you started in?
  3. Did someone direct you to a gang library or forum thread so you might understand your gangs politics?
  4. Did you need to ask for help on how to switch gangs if you did?
  5. How many clicks does it take to find sufficient info on your gang?
  6. How many clicks does it take to leave one gang, and join another of a players free choosing?
  7. Do you feel everyone that has ever joined this gang was as capable and patient as you were?
  8. Is Side Chat an inviting and helpful place for all players including rogues, newbies, and lowbies?
  9. Might links to choices within the new player tutorial to their gang options be helpful?
  10. Might it be easier to use the Wasteland if you don't have to worry about gaining territory first?

 

"a player is put into a gang to allow them the introduction and guidance through the gang they are in"

 

Yes, irregardless to if they feel any kinship, alliance, or patriotism to said gang. How is that helpful or appealing to players or gangs alike? Do you mean to say there is no other way a player might learn about gang customs without being thrown directly into it at start? Like no possible way at all? Zero creative solutions?

 

"A player will level a bit, check wasteland for the first time, and then maybe join said game but that's again with the imbalance."

 

We have an imbalance right now in the WL. BoD will most certianly get Gold once again, and DF might actually get silver this time. So what? That has far more to do with Stagnation, and less to do with Imbalances. Two completely different things. They are both happen eventually, but stagnation can be changed with simple adjustments to game mechanics. Many creative solutions could exist, and one in fact does. Rogue Viability (to varying degrees, other ideas on the Zorg roadmap as well).

 

"Complaining about imbalaces is something that's been going on for too long."

 

Yes, likely due to iniquity word-choice. Imbalance is different then Stagnation. Stagnation should be avoided, Imbalance is a fact of warfare in my view.

 

"Having lowbies starting in rogue and joining various gangs is just the same as having them start in one gang and moving to another"

 

Sure, if player choice is not valued and the aim is to stifle creativity and a free-flowing player experience. Those that "go rogue" should not be unnecessarily penalized for doing so. Nor should they be a hated minority. They could be Legacy Lite instead of Legacy Incarceration. Roguatory sucks, and it is unfortunate that I felt I had to leave a gang I absolutely love to show you all how dedicated to proving this point I am. Many of you have been Rogue before, and it sucks. Being forced into a gang at start not only stifles new player choice, but it stigmatizes this transitional minority. One should not "go rogue" they should natural start as Rogue/unaffiliated/unaligned then choose which gang they resonate with. I highly doubt staff will get any complaint tickets about new players not liking the fact they get to choose their gang.

 

 

 

"Pointing fingers to get a point across just draws your point back even further. Stick to your point and stop lashing out."

 

You are right. I sincerely apologize. I will do my best to remain calm and respectful and civilly debate, so long as you do as well. You are far from the first person I have been called names for simply expressing a minority view. I may have been on edge, and I will do my best to not let my emotions get the best of me again.

 

"take criticism from everyone the same as the last and deal with it.

 

I take a lot of criticism. Well rather I get a lot of criticism in the forums, and a lot of support in my inbox. It is for those that are not stepping forward I also am attempting to speak for, as well as the others that were ridiculed and yelled at for bring up a "DtD" topic. That thread could be a cash cow for Hunted Cow if they took a step back and listened instead of fostering an environment for flaming and trolling. I personally feel intolerance should not be tolerated, and I have been called very nasty names many times in SC and in forums for respectfully expressing a less popular view.

 

Every Av went through the same grief  of leveling as you and I did.

 

Agreed. So lets find where we agree, not where we disagree?


Edited by Nastasha, 11 December 2014 - 14:34.

Less esthetics, more fixes!

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