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#1 Will

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 20:24

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Greetings to HCS in general. You may not know who I am, but I am Will. One of the Volunteer Helpers over at Legacy. I am here to express a few concerns that I, myself, have that I wish to bring forth and hopefully have addressed. Some of these issues, I know the community as a whole has as well, but they feel it's pointless to even mention it. Which is something I intend to cover as well. Which, unfortunately, means that this post will be quite a read. So I apologize in advance for that.

 

What my concerns are stem from 3 specific things: Staff, Player, and the Game itself.

 

The Staff Side:

When I first applied for staff 4 years ago, almost everyone that was currently staff had to step down because Zorg joined HCS. The reason given was because Legacy would now be part of HCS. Which meant that staff from HCS would join in and help on the staff side of the house. I decided that I would stick around since I just joined the team and I would be able to easily mold into whatever needed to be done.

 

A short time after the merge, we were introduced to a few individuals. They hung around, chatted with the community, posted in the forums, it looked great. But then something happened. Everyone vanished. Almost literally to never be heard from again.

 

Why is this a problem for me and the other staff specifically? Well, we are no longer allowed to do certain things or be able to view certain things. Such as assist players with account issues. Reason being, we are not allowed to see the emails attached to accounts. We have a harder time catching potential multiple accounts (something not allowed at Legacy) because we are not allowed to see passwords.

 

This is all fine and good and I fully understand the reason behind it. Privacy related issues and etc etc. But the problem starts when there is nobody around to solve the issue. I can only hope when someone comes to me with an "account issue" is that it's an old, returning player and that they just have to make an HCS account to merge with their Legacy account. And if that's not the case and say they need an email change, that brings up an entire new problem. Relying on the ticket system.

 

I cannot speak for the other games that HCS own and how their process is done, but I can speak for Legacy. I have went 3, 7, even as long as almost 21 days waiting for tickets to be approved before I can view them. This part, I can also understand because the reason I was given, again, was it could pertain to email specific issues and that is something that I as an unpaid employee to the game, cannot view for privacy reasons. But again, if a person is forced to wait 21 days before they finally get a response, chances are they have just sucked it up and moved on. Or have found something else to do with their time and figured Legacy is no longer worth the time.

 

And it's not just account based issues. People have flat out told me that they don't bother with the ticket system anymore because the response time is horrid. And whenever I explain to them that it's not our (the Legacy staff) fault because we have to wait for HCS to approve it first, they honestly become appauled that it takes that long before they finally get a ticket approved so Legacy staff can come in to try and help. Which means all kinds of player harassment and abuse are left alone to never be dealt with because...the players feel they can't rely on staff to handle it because it takes so long for them to finally get a response.

 

The Player Side:

Hard as it is for me to believe these days, I was a player at one point. But even though I haven't been a player for the past 4 years, I have seen the growing frustration of the community. And this extends beyond the normal rants that Zorg has grown accustom to from the community over the last 10 years this game has been around.

 

First off: like I just said, this game has been around for 10 years. 10...solid...years...Despite all the ups and downs it has had, including a server move that damn near wiped out the entire database Zorg had, people are STILL around from the first days of the games release. Whether because they still enjoy the game itself, the community/friendships they've developed over the years, or even if it's just a part of their ritual to login and see what's going on, the fact is this game has some of the most hardcore dedicated players you will EVER have. Almost no game can hold a person's attention for more than a year. This game has managed to do so for 10. That alone should inspire a company to put some attention forth.

 

This game, despite having one of the most loyal communities I have ever seen and being promised numerous times that it would get more attention.......it has fallen by the wayside. "Once Eldevin has launched and is on it's feet." "Once I'm done with this project." And I'm not even going to bother going over all the plans and roadmaps that were given to the community. While yes, they were upheld to almost exactly what was stated, as soon as it was done, all presence from HCS and Zorg vanished entirely. And we only see him again every 3 months to rotate our Wasteland Map.

 

Everyone at Legacy knows full well that there are some very talented artists at HCS. Even having a somewhat dedicated graphic artist would be a step in the right direction because this neglect has went on for so long that our longest standing graphic artist has abandoned the game due to...well the game being abandoned.

 

The Game itself:

Like I have said before, this game has been around for 10 years. Any game that can claim it has been around for a decade, especially a text based game, is definitely one worth investing into. There are groups of people on Legacy that would group together and buy Legacy from Zorg just to keep it alive and do frequent updates because they love the game that much. So it's understandable why people are upset right now. Frustrating as it is for me to see it day in and day out from players, I can't help but sympathize with them at the same time.

 

One of the excuses could be, "Well Zorg is the only one who knows how to code it." That might be the case...but that can only work for so long. And after 4 years, the community no longer wants to hear that excuse. In 4 years time, surely someone could have been brought up to speed on how things are done. But nobody probably has. Because no effort, no TRUE effort, has been put forth.

 

At one point, the game had an accurate playerbase. This was due to the fact that inactive players would simply be automatically deleted for inactivity. But this was removed for some reason. A reason, that honestly, was never given publically. So people were left to theorize why. And the one everyone went with was because a game with no accounts/players looks bad next to the other games. So a bigger number must mean that more people play, right?

 

There are currently 9180 accounts.

 

And most of these are people who make an account, look around for 5 seconds, and logout. Never to be heard from again. While yes, the way it use to be meant that at most you would see maybe 800 accounts, but at least that was a more accurate picture. At least those 800 were dedicated enough to keep playing or at some point have supported the game by making a donation at some point so their account became permanent. Which this overall thing looks to me as an easy out for Legacy getting no attention. As long as that number of accounts keeps increasing, it must mean that the game is good enough as it is and there's no reason to put any attention towards it. Which that is anything but the case.

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All 3 of these issues tie into each other to some degree. But there is no denying that they are issues.

 

I'm not here to demand anything. I'm not here to try and cause issues. I'm not here to start drama between anyone.

 

What I am here for, is to try and be the voice that starts the process of Legacy getting some actual attention from not just HCS, but the creator that has managed to create a game that has brought people together and has kept a loyal fanbase for so long. And continues to grow to this day.

 

At this point, I believe the community would be happy even if they had 1 day where there is a little chunk of time set aside specifically for Legacy. Even if it's just 3 hours of that day. There are ideas being thrown around in game all the time to try and make things better. Whether it's to better balance the gear or something totally new. So it's not like much has to be considered. Just what is willing to be worked with.

 

As for me, I would personally love to see some sort of presence of HCS at Legacy. Just to show that Legacy DOES matter and we're not just some addition that was added on when a certain person joined the ranks.

 

Thank you for your time and hopefully we (myself and the community itself) will hear from HCS/Zorg at some point. Because as this forum has shown, with a majority of the threads being about Legacy, those at Legacy do pay attention and care about Legacy. And I intend to let them know that I created this thread.


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#2 zvasbinder

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 20:36

Well put Will! Happy someone finally posted about it. Now all we can do is hope and pray.



#3 Bizzly

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 20:48

I'm still here and this is my 2nd account (my 1st was closed due to inactivity) and I've been here from the beginning.  I'll stick around until HCS finally drives a stake into Legacy's heart.

 

There simply needs to be the proper involvement and/or permissions from HCS, given, to improve and/or update this game.

 

The heavy lifting was already done by Steven.  And why is he gone?  He got so much done in such a short time frame.   He was eager and he had excellent ideas.  Did he accomplish too much?  Now he's been run off, and for what reason?

 

Don't let this amazing group of people down.  We deserve something.  And this game still has potential to grow with a little involvement.  Some of the best ideas come from the players and I hear them all the time.



#4 Lynx

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 20:54

HCS could start at the "Done to Death" thread in the suggestions forum..

 

So many great and good ideas are being shut down and archived in there, just to be long forgotten..

 

It's sad to see that it takes Stevens leaving to get things rolling...


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#5 Inappropriate Name

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 21:56

Thank you Will.im just hopeing they switch the map when its time.



#6 Pody

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 22:54

Well said Will!



#7 MrItrickzu

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 02:22

well done, Will :)

 

maybe HCS/ Zorg should visit our forums more and see whats going on and get involved more.



#8 Luc2

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 03:15

Just a heads to anyone reading, you can 'like' the post at the top which will help HCS see and hear that this is an issue near and dear to our hearts. 

 

HCS- stop letting Legacy die. We might not be the prettiest browser game, heck, we aren't even the most fun- but we're here, we're queer....wait, wrong chant.

 

I would like to echo Will's sentiment, though- Come back Zorg, we miss you. And bring Hoofmaster and the other HCS staff with you to visit from time to time.



#9 Crater

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:59

Since I cant "like" wills post as someone else pointed out ill just post instead! :) Good Job Will its about time someone made a post like this outlining everything!  :)



#10 K3nny

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:10

Great post will.

I've been on legacy 8 years when I tell people I've played this game for that long they can't believe it , this game is different than all the other text based games I've tried and it's simply down to the community in game.

As for updates Steven done so much work on new weapons armours and tier 2 items all of which many people are dying to see added to the game as it would add such a new dynamic to the fighting system without getting the much needed new fighting system the game needs , from the pictures Steven put on the legacy FB u can see he done so much work on items doing the artwork and stats just leaving somone to code them into the game.

Also I remember just before HCS took over legacy , Macey and Aldo were invited to join staff and help zorg code the game , and within our player base we got some really good codes with rod and langer making the Enchancment suit via tamper monkey with makes game play so much easy.

Looking at the HCS staff there's 3/4 codes and 5 graphic designers , now HCS main focus is fallen sword and evldvin with look to be running all good and r gettin updates weekly.
All the legacy community are asking for is take some time away from these games and pay legacy some love and give us something please , people r still buying plat and still bringing HCS money in so why can't we get some updates even if it just codes all the work Steven has done.

I believe Steven said he would return to help out on the stuff his done of someone actually cares enough to code and upload it

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#11 Zorg

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:03

That was a really round about way to ask me to unlock 4 tickets...

 

Jokes aside, 10 years is a long time. I was a teenager back when I started this journey and we've all changed a lot since then.  The code base at this point is very old and working on it is a laborious task, that anyone who has maintained a project for a long period of time will understand.

 

Major updates and complete system overhauls are just unrealistic at this point, as the large amount of work required is just not worth the poor reception such large changes generally receive.  If I was to take combat and entirely revamp it with new equations, better UI and design, at least 50% of players would hate it and I'd be more likely to kill the game entirely that revitalize it.  As has been shown recently on Fallen Sword with our attempts to revamp PVP Combat to a newer more modern system.  Players think they want updates, but they're also set in their ways and change often just serves to annoy them.

 

As for getting new players in to the game, I'd say that's impossible at this point.  Back when Legacy started free games were few and far between, players sat and gave considerable effort and leeway to the games they tried, but those days are past.  Today's players give 1-2 minutes to a free game before deciding if they like it.  The bar has been significantly raised and the ocean Legacy now lives in has far more fish in it.  When Legacy launched I could count the competition on one hand, I was 1 guy coding in my bedroom and my biggest rival was a few guys coding in theirs, now there are hundreds of thousands of free alternatives made by massive international corporations of thousands of people.

 

Having said all that, smaller changes to entertain the existing players are completely viable.   I'm not remotely against adding new items Steven makes, whenever he is ready, or making tweaks / changes to existing systems that make them more fun and enjoyable.


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#12 K3nny

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:09

From what I got from Steven his items r 90% ready they need coding and making sure the stats r okay so they not overpowered or underpowered , however Steven has thrown his toys well and truely out the pram , so zorg and Steven may have to have a conversation on that and I get what u saying about the combat system , i think everyone on legacy knows we aren't getting a new one so atleast new weeps and armours will make a new balance for us to play with

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#13 Anialator

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:29

I really hope that's the case k3nny, HCS lost a very dedicated graphic artist from letting Legacy fall to the wayside. I can't see why HCS would not dedicate a slot of Zorg's time to coding Legacy. There are long term players who have lost the heart to put real effort into the game, but can't bring themselves to leave after all this time they have invested. If we can get Legacy rolling again, we get those long term players trying harder to keep our new players interested, and our active player base will start growing again.

 

We are NOT a lost cause, Legacy can have a second wind here.


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Anialator - (War Master of The Chapter - Legacy Online)


#14 Bigmick

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:33

Everyone in the game knows how much I love the attack system and its massive random swing.Surely there is a way to reduce the randomness just so the percentages are abit more realistic.

Also why so much lag in the game over the last 2 or 3 weeks,its been brutally bad.

We understand the game is old  and we dont expect too much .We dont really need huge game changing updates,what we really need is abit of love and attension for the game that we love.

Give us a few hrs of your time a week Zorg pls.

 


Edited by Bigmick, 16 September 2015 - 12:34.


#15 Jeremiah

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:48

I've been with Legacy since I started high school and now I'm way into early adulthood. The Game just feels so stagnant as people constantly mention. Legacy would and could also probably get some usage of the other stuff from their other games. Moving around with the Arrow Keys in Fallen Sword/Sigma Storm for example. The Community is still there we're waiting patiently almost some of us even over a decade.

 

For me at least the fact that Legacy not even having a sub-forum in this area just makes it seem like Hunted Cows doesn't want to acknowledge the existence of the game.


Edited by Jeremiah, 16 September 2015 - 12:50.


#16 Crater

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:57

I completely agree with everything said above! The fact that we are all reaching out must show you that we care and want the game to be successful again! As Anialator said its the long term players who have the best chance of getting new comers to stay and give the game more of a chance so the more they love playing the more the game can grow!

 

I myself was influenced to try and keep playing the game by two long term members who are no longer active! (DMaster and Shak) They introduced me to this game and taught my how to play the game because they loved playing it so much and with their help and guidance I got to love playing the game too which is why I'm still here 4 years later!

 

There is still a chance to make the game great again!

 

We are NOT a lost cause, Legacy can have a second wind here.

 



#17 Matty

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 13:08

Honestly, I'm completely fine with the way the Attack System works now.

What I really want as a player is to keep bringing in NPC's, new weapons (raise the level cap to 100!!!), and a new WL map every once in a while.

New NPC's (I hope) are just cookie-cutter bits of code that just need the variables changed and a new graphic for, new weapons and armours such as the ones Steven made would bring spice to the game that can last quite a while, I mean even the vent update was what, 2 years ago? I just got my 2nd rift and I owe 290,000c which is sure to keep me playing another year at least! And as for the new WL map, just a new layout that we haven't seen, nothing too big like the sentry system and islands that come and go with temperature.

It's been nearly 8 years of my 19 year life I've played legacy, it's beyond a game for me now, it's a part of my lifestyle, my personality. I won't be going until the server is shut down.

Honestly, just give people like Steven, langer, all of the graphics and coding guys some power to create. I understand Legacy is not their intellectual property, but if HCS can see potential gain from it financially due to interest, why not allow it?

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"We intend to continue to fully support Legacy and will likely release future updates, but currently we have no time-scale for these as of yet." - Hoofmaster - August 19th, 2016


#18 MrItrickzu

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 13:28

Some new players have stayed, maybe you should check the online list sometime.

i have played Legacy for 125 days, I reached av 3 days ago.

"System : 15:41 The hive shakes as MrItrickzu rises to the rank of Avatar."

 

and i will continue to play Legacy until the day, it dies



#19 Renshi

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 13:58

Hello, Renshi here. Longtime follower, first time caller. In the scheme of things, I'm a newer player in Legacy. My account is just over 4 years old and I've logged in almost everyday unless work or vacation has prevented me from it. I've played Legacy longer and more frequently than any other game I've ever played. Honestly, I don't know why. There are no great and flashy graphics, there's no "Congratulations! You've beaten Legacy!" endgame. But there is a great community, most of which I just watch act like fools in sidechat, and then get beaten up by them in the wasteland.

 

The bottom line here is that there is a great community, a small group of dedicated players, that just want a little attention and some recognition from Zorg and HCS. Throw us a random update once in a while, or at least just jump in from timt to time and talk for a few minutes in side chat so that we know you're still alive and we cross your mind every once in a while.



#20 westham

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 14:02

This is a great post will needed to be said and hopefully someone will listen 




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