33 replies to this topic

[Morgwyn]

What would happen? At first a big dive in price on the AH, (as all guilds without enough bp/guild slots) would need to dump a lot of gear. But after that you'd get higher prices since everybody needs his/her own setup(s).

When I first started playing this game, I did my best at leveling but it was not a goal at itself. I could not afford a plague set back then, which was annoying, but I could do without it besides a couple of tough levels just before the 50's.
LE events meant something as it was your opportunity to finally get a hold of a certain set/item. It all meant so much more.

A lot of gear would become interesting then as being the cheaper alternative. One thing I never understood what fun a developper/designer can have at designing an item that looks pretty good, but never will be used. I think we can say that for around 80% of the gear in game. A waste of time and energy.

Eventhough it has downsides, the ballance in the game has long been gone, this may be a way to restore some of the ballance.

[Mister Doom]

This would be freaking awesome.

Unfortunately I can imagine the huge amount of moaning this would inspire.

[Morgwyn]

You could solve this with limited personal tagging. Say everybody can tag up to 18 items. (2 setups). That way you encourage a bit of sharing, and gives HCS the ability to earn the guild tagging refund back.

[Xakano]

Players have placed expensive items into their Guild store for players in the Guild to use, and have secured them by the Guild tagging system to ensure that new members cannot nip and and out taking expensive or hard to gain items with them when they leave (as long as they do not have the permissions to do so).

If we removed this, then we would see anyone in your Guild being able to take as many items as they can and sell them on for their own benefit. This would be exceptionally unfair for players, and will not be considered.

[Morgwyn]

Thanks for the reply xakano, but ofcourse a change like this should only happen with a month's notice, plus I am sure something can be worked out for less active/sleeping guilds. Say like a special guild mailbox (without time limit) that all items get placed in and can only be emptied by the founder.

Surely there will be negative sides to any solution. But what do u want in the end? A game that's going down hill, or one that will steadily rise again?

If there is a will, there is a way!


***edit***
A safe way of doing it: Disable the ability to recall (except founder). And disable the ability to sent guild locked items to guild mates. (should not be to hard as you cannot sent guild locked items to players outside your guild either). That way guild tagging becomes useless and no harm can be done.

[Mister Doom]

All that would be required is a fair amount of notice. One month maybe two. After which point all tags would be removed and the ability itself would be gone for good. Guilds would still be able to share gear, but you sure as hell better make sure you trust the people who you are letting into your guild.

Should have never have introduced guild tagging in the first place. All it's ever done it create a society of clones, that don't think for themselves, earn anything for themselves or wear individually created setups. Sad.

[Filletminion]

All that would be required is a fair amount of notice. One month maybe two. After which point all tags would be removed and the ability itself would be gone for good. Guilds would still be able to share gear, but you sure as hell better make sure you trust the people who you are letting into your guild.

Should have never have introduced guild tagging in the first place. All it's ever done it create a society of clones, that don't think for themselves, earn anything for themselves or wear individually created setups. Sad.

+1

Absolutely agree .
But with where the game is its 99% clones now without imagination.

[1daboss]

I agree the game has lost its spark but I agree with xakano. We need guild tagging to give everyone a shot at wearing some nicer gear, and not having it stolen.

[DragonLord]

The down side to removing tagging (which, although obvious, doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far) is :-

A lot of folk don't stick around because of the costs involved in playing the game competitively. If guild tagging was removed, that expense would increment dramatically, and would probably result in even more players leaving the game.

Should guild-tagging have been introduced at all ? - that's a debate that's gone on for some time - but is it viable to remove it now ? - certainly not IMO.

[Morgwyn]

The down side to removing tagging (which, although obvious, doesn't seem to have been mentioned so far) is :-

A lot of folk don't stick around because of the costs involved in playing the game competitively. If guild tagging was removed, that expense would increment dramatically, and would probably result in even more players leaving the game.

Should guild-tagging have been introduced at all ? - that's a debate that's gone on for some time - but is it viable to remove it now ? - certainly not IMO.

There may be some truth in there, but I think it is more a mentality problem in the game that everything needs to be handed on a silver platter. And that people do not want to "work" for certain pieces of gear. If there is enough fun and good ways to level up (like better elite sets that one can hunt themselves and regular LE's - with different beasties ofc) I do not think it will scare players away.

While BG himself always said this game is not about 1-hitting, HCS surely made it like it with all the content/buffs/gear added. By making it so, I think the mentality turned towards the dark side.

Personally I still think removing tagging would be better for the game. And it surely would make it more challenging.

[Xakano]

Hey, we do appreciate your suggestion, but it simply shall not be implemented in the foreseeable future anyway.

Players join guild to gain help from other, more powerful players. Guilds are a large part of the game, and sharing items are a huge part of that. We will not be taking away one of the biggest benefits of being a part of a Guild.

[Morgwyn]

Hey, we do appreciate your suggestion, but it simply shall not be implemented in the foreseeable future anyway.

Players join guild to gain help from other, more powerful players. Guilds are a large part of the game, and sharing items are a huge part of that. We will not be taking away one of the biggest benefits of being a part of a Guild.

Sorry to hear that. It may be a benefit in one way, but it kills the game in another. Depends on which benefit u want to see.

[Malshun]

xakano is spot on with her assessment. Fallen Sword would become SS2 in short order if guild tagging were removed. It honestly evens the playing field for new players and allows them to get a fell for the game. It tough for someone to look back and have a real perspective for someone just starting out as our memories tend to glamorize the past. Player retention would drop well below what it is now if everyone had to purchase their own gear. It's not easy to make the fsps needed to purchase gear and upgrade your character if you are not donating. Without needed to go tit for tat on every point for or against guild tagging the best thing it does is help with player retention.

[Morgwyn]

Still we can wonder why back then more players stuck around. Not sure if that is because or despite guild tagging.

[Zukira]

If I recall, player retention actually surged upwards when tagging went in because it was more likely that new players would be accepted into guilds and helped.

[T1GER69]

Hey, we do appreciate your suggestion, but it simply shall not be implemented in the foreseeable future anyway.

Players join guild to gain help from other, more powerful players. Guilds are a large part of the game, and sharing items are a huge part of that. We will not be taking away one of the biggest benefits of being a part of a Guild.

agree 100% 8)

[Mister Doom]

If I recall, player retention actually surged upwards when tagging went in because it was more likely that new players would be accepted into guilds and helped.

That's probably true, on the flipside though it also lead to the Identical clone 'I want' society that FS is now. (for however long it lasts)

[Versair]

Players have placed expensive items into their Guild store for players in the Guild to use, and have secured them by the Guild tagging system to ensure that new members cannot nip and and out taking expensive or hard to gain items with them when they leave (as long as they do not have the permissions to do so).

If we removed this, then we would see anyone in your Guild being able to take as many items as they can and sell them on for their own benefit. This would be exceptionally unfair for players, and will not be considered.

Good.
A few reasons why gear is so cheap (in no particular order):
-Less people playing (less people playing, less people buying gear)
-Smasher medal changes which discourage PvP (no need to buy top notch gear when the fear of being attacked has been taken away)
-Overpowered buffs (no need for the best gear when you can get by with average gear and insane buffs and a big shout out to Smashing Hammer making any item not part of a set useless)
-People constantly undercutting each other to get rid of items
-People are seeing how much items are dropping and are afraid to invest in them (Don't blame them)
-Still suffering the effects from that brilliant event where every LE was in the game at once (HCS seems to always underestimate the hoarders)
-Weekly arena rotations (don't even feel sorry for those people, that's what they wanted)

I think we need to focus on how to get more people playing this game and stay playing this game. This suggestion seems like it would only push people further away.

[Mister Doom]

Good.
A few reasons why gear is so cheap (in no particular order):
-Less people playing (less people playing, less people buying gear)
-Smasher medal changes which discourage PvP (no need to buy top notch gear when the fear of being attacked has been taken away)
-Overpowered buffs (no need for the best gear when you can get by with average gear and insane buffs and a big shout out to Smashing Hammer making any item not part of a set useless)
-People constantly undercutting each other to get rid of items
-People are seeing how much items are dropping and are afraid to invest in them (Don't blame them)
-Still suffering the effects from that brilliant event where every LE was in the game at once (HCS seems to always underestimate the hoarders)
-Weekly arena rotations (don't even feel sorry for those people, that's what they wanted)

I think we need to focus on how to get more people playing this game and stay playing this game. This suggestion seems like it would only push people further away.

That's all well and good but if the people you get playing are just more of the same, *me, me & me* people. People who can't think for themselves, dress themselves, and are only interested in joining a guild for what THEY can get from it. Well hell, you might as well just let the game die right here and right now. I know some people, established and high level who have absolutely ZERO clue on how to build setups or hunt properly. Hell if they lost the ability to leech guild gear, use hunting guides or the FSH 'can I kill it' function. They wouldn't be able to play at all.

The introduction of guild tagging MAY have let some people play more cheaply, but these same people have made FS what it is today. A greed machine, driven by the pursuit of pure profit.

[shindrak]

This is will help merchants or rich players "who stock items in their big Bp" since it will get some value for items again

But i don't think this is good for game at all...