19 replies to this topic

[BMachine]

I have an idea to increase leveling roadmaps. Currently when EOC is extended there are usually 50-150 Levels added. What if the creatures went up in levels of 5 instead of levels of 1? 

 

Example; Level 5020 Area has creatures level 5025 that you fight until level 5026 then on to the next area making it 50 levels per portal rather then 10.

 

The Pros -

1. Higher level ratios (250-750 level roadmaps)
2. More chance of running into chests per EOC area
3. Difficulty increase in sets of 5 levels rather then 1

The Cons -
1. The level divide
2. The players will struggle to EOC

The other adjustment for balance -
(Since the level roadmap would be subjected to mass level increases the following should also be included to balance the changes.)
1. Adept Learner 1000 Potion introduced to the game
2. A buff that increases XP based on the level difference to a maximum of 5 levels (level 5000)
3. A Buff that increases/reduces the stats of the OPPONENT based on the level difference. (lower level = higher stats)
4. A Full Epic SET that grants bonuses like temporal shift +5 per piece +10 for set and half the stam/stam gain as current epics (Relic defending balance) This set per end of roadmap would be perfect. 
5. Finally a buff that increases XP based on what level you are. (Example: level 1-100 100%xp increase per 100 levels, 95% at 100-200 upt to level 1900 where it stops at 5%.)
 
If you have suggestions leave them below. This is all i could come up with to balance the levels, push the level roadmaps and balance relic defending all in 1 hit. The creature required to slay in order to recieve the 'epic items' Should require a group of 10+ fully geared and buffed player in a group. This will ensure the gear cant be heavily farmed for atleast 5 years +.

[yotekiller]

When you fight creatures over your level you get increased XP so EOC players would gain levels faster, not slower by your plan.

[BMachine]

When you fight creatures over your level you get increased XP so EOC players would gain levels faster, not slower by your plan.

I thought this was removed so people couldnt abuse the GXP anymore?

[EpicPiety]

GXP has never been abused (Insert AM working on various non-seasonal elites on occasion dilemmas and an issue with leveling below 0 :kekw:). It's based off base XP gain on a mob and is never effected by diminishing returns starting in like 2014 or 2015 when they made the change. If you ask me they should wipe GXP or reduce everyone's GXP by a 2 magnitudes and revert it. GXP farming is boring and the current system forces you to do it to remain relevant on GXP list if you care about that. It's turned into who will spend the most money list, nothing more meaningful than that.

 

Would be much better if they removed the concept of solely gaining GXP from hunting and created other unique indemnifiers and weights to gain "GXP" as well through other facets of the game. This will keep the game competitive and fresh. There are guilds not even in the Top 10 or top 20 for that matter of GXP lists that should be considered Top 3-5 material if we are talking overall best.

 

To clarify confusion:

The change HCS made was that you can no longer kill a creature many levels higher than you (SE for example) and see tremendous PERSONAL XP gains. There is a normalizer now in that direction not just sub.

You also cannot delevel a ton and remain on a high level map and relevel with ease.

The Solution:

 

To fix the now impossible task of producing leveling content (Due to offensive/leveling pot power creep) is a correction to the required XP:Level formula. Just change it at EOC and call it a day. 1 day's worth of stamina for me i can gain about 10 levels give or take not inside a 2x. Content mostly comes in 2x so double that number to 20. You will never beable to make even close to that many levels of content daily, nor should you.

It's better to be able to spend time creating meaningful content opposed to having to pump out quantity to compete with the now aggravated leveling formula. 

Hope HCS takes this into consideration. Not only for the players sake but ultimately their sake in regards to reducing workload demand while simultaneously improving quality (Also improving player retention for players only interested in hunting. If all you do is hunt as an EOC player, you never have anything to do anymore but for 1-2 hours a year.)

Edited by EpicPiety, 25 March 2022 - 17:23.

[BMachine]

GXP has never been abused (Insert AM working on various non-seasonal elites on occasion dilemmas :kekw:). It's based off base XP gain on a mob and is never effected by diminishing returns starting in like 2014 or 2015 when they made the change. If you ask me they should wipe GXP or reduce everyone's GXP by a 2 magnitudes and revert it. GXP farming is boring and the current system forces you to do it to remain relevant on GXP list if you care about that. It's turned into who will spend the most money list, nothing more meaningful than that.

 

Would be much better if they removed the concept of solely gaining GXP from hunting and created other unique indemnifiers and weights to gain "GXP" as well through other facets of the game. This will keep the game competitive and fresh. There are guilds not even in the Top 10 or top 20 for that matter of GXP lists that should be considered Top 3 material if we are talking overall best.

 

To clarify confusion:

The change HCS made was that you can no longer kill a creature many levels higher than you (SE for example) and see tremendous PERSONAL XP gains. There is a normalizer now in that direction not just sub.

You also cannot delevel a ton and remain on a high level map and relevel with ease.

so if you cant kill a creature higher level then you for the tremendous xp gain then this method works? I am confused lol. I remember in 2016 when there was a guy with billions of GXP and then was terminated? im not sure why he was but he was ontop by miles and when i asked my guild at the time they told me he deleveled and releveled for the GXP. The extra XP or killing higher creatures should be completely removed in the case that it still works as it serves no purpose?

The changing of GXP to *Victory Points* in the column would be great. It would show peoples dedication to the guild better then the awarded xp. This could cover titans, conflicts, levels, buffs and deposits and would serve a better pupose in the column then the portion of xp allocated there.

Victory points would better showcase the top guild as they would be actively leveling, buffing each other, participating in GvG, Titan Hunting and composing guild pots. All these actions determine the best guild in the game not the amount of xp that has been allocated to increase the guilds total level.

Maybe bring in Champion points for top 25 guilds each week like the pvp ladder?

However people in the top guilds have grown custom to seeing their # of gxp there and how much and long they have spent to get it there wont be easy to persuade them that this would be better even if its logically better.

If Yote is correct then removing the extra XP acquired from the creature being over leveled would solve the issue without creating new ones.

 

[EpicPiety]

so if you cant kill a creature higher level then you for the tremendous xp gain then this method works? I am confused lol. I remember in 2016 when there was a guy with billions of GXP and then was terminated? im not sure why he was but he was ontop by miles and when i asked my guild at the time they told me he deleveled and releveled for the GXP. The extra XP or killing higher creatures should be completely removed in the case that it still works as it serves no purpose?
 

Not sure what you are talking about, however HCS does not ban players for game innovation. If you are exploiting a vulnerability in the code inorganically that is different.

Leveling and releveling was organic and very practiced prior to the implementation of the change to GXP. In-fact it is still prevalent to some hunting methods today.

There is Base Xp and there is personalized xp you gain on your player profile. There is an additional complexity to personal profile xp, more so than base. You gain GXP based off of Base XP don't know how else i can explain this.

Edited by EpicPiety, 25 March 2022 - 15:56.

[IVANIDAS]

Lol

[Maehdros]

New ideas are great, however I don't see any issue with how gxp, how current eoc works , leveling , and so on.

I'm curious as to your interest in the subject tho. Are you planning to level to end of content in the near future?

[BMachine]

New ideas are great, however I don't see any issue with how gxp, how current eoc works , leveling , and so on.

I'm curious as to your interest in the subject tho. Are you planning to level to end of content in the near future?

I dont give ideas that i find helpful to myself as they are bias, hence why all of my suggestions target new players and EOC players If i said GvG should have a 7 day cooldown instead of 10 it would be a conflict of interest as GvG is what i enjoy It Is easy to enjoy the leveling system when you are at the end of it and the end of it for most people is 1 hunt the same day the new EOC is released. This would mean it may take you 6 months + to reach eoc again rather then the 1 hunt you do with the 150k-200k max stam/reserve stam you have saved.

Epic, what was confusing me was this line 'The change HCS made was that you can no longer kill a creature many levels higher than you (SE for example) and see tremendous PERSONAL XP gains. There is a normalizer now in that direction not just sub.'
I read that line and got confused. I hope you understand. That statement there tells me you cannot get tremendous XP gain for killing a creature higher level then you.

[BadPenny]

[snip]

Epic, what was confusing me was this line 'The change HCS made was that you can no longer kill a creature many levels higher than you (SE for example) and see tremendous PERSONAL XP gains. There is a normalizer now in that direction not just sub.'
I read that line and got confused. I hope you understand. That statement there tells me you cannot get tremendous XP gain for killing a creature higher level then you.

A while back the cows made it harder to delevel yourself and level back up using the higher level critters you left behind, by making a penalty for creatures higher than +5 of your level, particularly Elites and Super Elites (I believe)  It's similar to the way that releveling had the gold penalty attached...  Although I'm of the opinion that this is all tied to virtual level in comparison to actual level...

[BMachine]

A while back the cows made it harder to delevel yourself and level back up using the higher level critters you left behind, by making a penalty for creatures higher than +5 of your level, particularly Elites and Super Elites (I believe)  It's similar to the way that releveling had the gold penalty attached...  Although I'm of the opinion that this is all tied to virtual level in comparison to actual level...

Is there a forum for this change?, what is the penalty? reduce xp and gold or is it capped at the 5 level range? I remember trying it with my VL the same level as the monsters and my AL 20ish levels down. The xp and gold was the same all the way through. I then tried it with my VL.

As for 'game innovation', If you are attacking creatures lower level then you by alot and getting boosted xp by alot to force yourself on top of the highest level guilds then in my opinion you abused a bug to gain an advantage over other players that played the game the way it was designed to be played. A comparison to this exact problem is when game developer 'woox' From 'jagex' used constant eating and heals to win the $10,000 prize. By abusing the mechanic he was able to outheal damage till the timer was over and win the money. The objective to win is to survive in a pvp setting where everyone fights and its whoever lives the longest wins however when you respawn you can still fight but not win.

Another prime example, The TnCs state no third party software is  to be used in conjunction with the fallensword website or client. However if you use windows to automate commands it would not break the TnCs but  it is still against the rules from my point of view and im sure if you asked a moderator they would agree.
 

[BadPenny]

there was an official thread, but I'm an old lady with a short term memory problem....  I'm sure EP or somebody could find it and link it for you

As for your idea... not sure if it's a good one or not, I'm still taking the scenic route to EOC, so that I don't get squished by the others at the bottleneck....
 

[EpicPiety]

As for 'game innovation', If you are attacking creatures lower level then you by alot and getting boosted xp by alot to force yourself on top of the highest level guilds then in my opinion you abused a bug to gain an advantage over other players that played the game the way it was designed to be played. A comparison to this exact problem is when game developer 'woox' From 'jagex' used constant eating and heals to win the $10,000 prize. By abusing the mechanic he was able to outheal damage till the timer was over and win the money. The objective to win is to survive in a pvp setting where everyone fights and its whoever lives the longest wins however when you respawn you can still fight but not win.

Another prime example, The TnCs state no third party software is  to be used in conjunction with the fallensword website or client. However if you use windows to automate commands it would not break the TnCs but  it is still against the rules from my point of view and im sure if you asked a moderator they would agree.
 

You were not getting massive amounts of GXP through doing this. Like i said GXP is based off of Base XP.  The complexities of leveling come from personal xp, which has no effect on GXP.

When you kill a creature and it says you gain 1,000,000 xp (This would be known as personal xp) for your character that does not mean you are getting 250,000 guild xp (GXP is 25% of base xp gained).

Look on the UFSG, you can see creatures base xp it's a constant... which makes GXP constant.

Through the years we have got massive power creep. This allowed very low level players to kill very high level creatures. SE are the only creatures that will show up in realms way below their level. This was not a case of players exploiting, but cows not acting fast enough. If you ask me, they should have tweaked it in such a way you could still do this. It was a very involved form of hunting and you couldn't just sit on it and smash the attack button with animal magnetism. 

You have to understand the difference between Base XP and Personal XP to go further into this subject. It's in my opinion a waste of time to even explore. I have outlined simply the way to fix leveling above. Any complicated and convoluted change/adjustment is not going to be made based on my experience.

 

**edited out inconsistencies about extra exp. It was not extra, you gained normal experience from that mob. However as a lower level it requires less exp to level and higher level creatures give more exp.

Edited by EpicPiety, 29 March 2022 - 18:22.

[BMachine]

You were not getting massive amounts of GXP through doing this. Like i said GXP is based off of Base XP.  The complexities of leveling come from personal xp, which has no effect on GXP.

When you kill a creature and it says you gain 1,000,000 xp (This would be known as personal xp) for your character that does not mean you are getting 250,000 guild xp (GXP is 25% of base xp gained).

Look on the UFSG, you can see creatures base xp it's a constant... which makes GXP constant.

There was an intended booster to personal xp if you were a lower level than your target creature (This was something the cows coded on purpose). This was intended, however through the years we have got massive power creep. This allowed very low level players to kill very high level creatures. SE are the only creatures that will show up in realms way below their level. This was not a case of players exploiting, but cows not acting fast enough. If you ask me, they should have tweaked it in such a way you could still do this. It was a very involved form of hunting and you couldn't just sit on it and smash the attack button with animal magnetism. 

You have to understand the difference between Base XP and Personal XP to go further into this subject. It's in my opinion a waste of time to even explore. I have outlined simply the way to fix leveling above. Any complicated and convoluted change/adjustment is not going to be made based on my experience.

Wow, that means he spent 10s of thousands of FSP on his hunt lol, crazy
ill look into it but just for final clarification, if i am lower level then the creature will i get more xp?

[BadPenny]

Wow, that means he spent 10s of thousands of FSP on his hunt lol, crazy
ill look into it but just for final clarification, if i am lower level then the creature will i get more xp?

With normal critters and champs, probably (I think)
but if your VL is higher than your Actual Level because of a delevel, you will receive less gold than normal until your VL and Actual Level are the same...
 

[EpicPiety]

Wow, that means he spent 10s of thousands of FSP on his hunt lol, crazy
ill look into it but just for final clarification, if i am lower level then the creature will i get more xp?

You need to fight creatures your level. FSPs are light work from xmas sale. As far as i'm concerned what people spend on the game is their business. People find different things fun.

Edited by EpicPiety, 28 March 2022 - 17:03.

[fugrnugget]

Wow, that means he spent 10s of thousands of FSP on his hunt lol, crazy
ill look into it but just for final clarification, if i am lower level then the creature will i get more xp?

 

I don't think you get extra exp for fighting higher level mobs. You get normal exp for fighting creatures within 5 levels, so if you are level 95 and fighting a level 100 creature you will get the normal amount of exp for the level 100. However, the base exp for the level 100 is higher than the base exp for the level 95 so you technically will get more exp. If you're more than 5 levels below the creature you're fighting you get less exp, not more.

[EpicPiety]

I don't think you get extra exp for fighting higher level mobs. You get normal exp for fighting creatures within 5 levels, so if you are level 95 and fighting a level 100 creature you will get the normal amount of exp for the level 100. However, the base exp for the level 100 is higher than the base exp for the level 95 so you technically will get more exp. If you're more than 5 levels below the creature you're fighting you get less exp, not more.

You are correct actually. 

[BMachine]

I don't think you get extra exp for fighting higher level mobs. You get normal exp for fighting creatures within 5 levels, so if you are level 95 and fighting a level 100 creature you will get the normal amount of exp for the level 100. However, the base exp for the level 100 is higher than the base exp for the level 95 so you technically will get more exp. If you're more than 5 levels below the creature you're fighting you get less exp, not more.

That makes sense, the amount of extra XP allocated for 5 levels higher is minimal though, you would earn the same xp per creature kill but xp would scale in lots of 5s then 1s, that clarifies everything for me thank you   I hope this is implemented, even if it is only the epic set i would be cheering ;P i cant wear none of it but gives me a reason to hit EOC if everyone can be buffed on relics and still retain 50% stam gain and max stam then relic defending would be a whole lot easier the only problem is it would have to be a 9 piece set.
Epic, do you think a full epic set with rounded stats would fix relic defending? Similiar to the old hooftest armour. Actually no, THE HOOFTEST ARMOUR! only need to adjust the stats and add a set effect. I stopped trying to defend relics long ago because the trade off for an extra 500 max stam is 1200-2500 stam in buffs, 1-2 compose potions and sitting at -40 stam gain and in an hours time their group of 5+ will just smash through 10 defenders. Has been like this for a long time now lol, i blame the fact that only 2 or 3 out of 10 are in equiptment that can be buffed and everyone else in epics. If you could halve the gain but retain the stats appropriate for the level the set could be buffed bringing relic defending efficiency up alot and would only require to buff the relic defenders with stat boosting buffs (shield wall, smashing hammer etc) and the main defender every buff under the sun. 
I also 100% back the idea of requiring a group of 10 geared and buffed players to kill creatures to obtain this set. Even if its a titan. Group PVM is only on SEs at the moment and they are few and far between. If there was a titan or creature that required me to join a group each few mins and stay buffed and geared it to beat it would greatly increase a sense of teamwork.
From there we could look at other group activities like raids that require the epic set to kill the creatures (raids just group questing with a mini titan at the end) or make that dungeons and make the raids similiar but with creatures that have actual gear from the game and can have random buffs depending on what raid your guild gets each week. Pve Difiulty of this game needs increasing and teamwork based activities need increasing. Dungeons and raids is the cliche way to obtain it. Since the rest of the game will feel left out maybe bring dungeons from levels 100-1000-2000-3000-4000.
This game has alot of options, just a matter of which one and when. Looking forward to the next 10 years.

[EpicPiety]

Responding namely to the buffed epic set no and I think it's a bad idea to be honest.