181 replies to this topic

[yodamus]

Please remain civil. Flaming each other will not help the topic. Furthermore, remember I said I like the idea, rough as it is and I'd talk with the guys about it. Also remember I said don't get your hopes up. Something may come of this thread or nothing at all. It depends on how discussion and thread feedback go.

this is the problem with the forums nowadays....constant flaming coming from the pvpers, check out entire thread and see who is starting the flaming and keeping the flame going.....they want it all to be in their favor and could care less about the rest of us in the game...less and less non-pvpers bother to even make a comment in the forums..cause they know it will get flamed..this was a great idea the op thought of..but some players are calling it half-baked and garbage, instead of just disageeing...they flame the op....wonder who they could be ??  keep this up and nobody will be putting any ideas in the forums and the forums will die off..

[BigGrim]

Hey.

 

It's not all the PvPers. Look at what you're doing with your post. Pouring gas on the fire. Like I said, keep it civil, stop the flaming and stay on topic. We value constructive feedback and that's easier to find when I don't have to wade through off topic posts.

 

~ Grim

[clock96]

Hmm...the way I read the OP was that this was a brand new addition to PVP. One that might get levelers interested in dabbling in the aspect where if they like it enough, they may try the gold theft portion. Normal 100 stams, BB hits, and gold theft aren't being changed so if you have issues with people you still have your normal options of PVP hitting. IMO this change would be the bridge some levelers seem to need to venture out of the 1234r hunting.
 
Where is the harm in adding another branch to the current PVP system?
 

 
A shame that the Ladder was originally meant to be this but it's strayed from that.

So I was sleeping and came to see 20 More replies to the topic, I read them and they are all off the topiv and can't understand it except for Crzy, the only one who got what I meant, Now hear me and I will make it in caps so everyone can see it THE ORIGINAL POST DIDN'T SAY TO DELETE ANYTHING FROM THE CURRENT PVP SYSTEM, I MEANT TO "ADD" AGAIN "ADD" NOT REPLACE, I DIDN'T SAY THIS IDEA WILL REPLACE LADDER OR ANYTHING, IT WILL JUST BE "ADDED" SO EVERYTHING WILL REMAIN THR SAME IN THE GAME BUT JUST ADD A NEW ASPECT, BG WANTED TO REPLACE THE LADDER WITH THIS IDEA, PLZ FOCUS ON THE ORIGINAL POST WHETE I DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT REPLACING, JUST ADDING, AGAIN HIGH LEVELS WON'T ATTACK LOW LEVELS AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, AGAIN WHEN I TALKED ABOUT BOUNTY IN OP I USED "IF" JUST TO COVER ALL POSSIBILTIES, THAT DOESN'T MEAN I WANT THE PVP XP ATTACK TO BE BOUNTYABLE, now is it clear ? Did you read this ? I hope I helped everyone understand here and as yodamus said, the "flaming" started when someone came saying garbage and dumb, I have no problem with people coming saying I don't like the idea without insulting it, as BG said we don't want flaming as it will not help the topic by anyway

[yotwehc]

Just to be clear, I'm not flaming you and I appreciate you taking the time to have a back and forth. Somehow when I make this statement, many stop talking to me so I hope this doesn't happen with you as well

 

I may not have been clear, so I'll try to elaborate. The statement "I have no idea why people complain" is meant to be focused on the complaining part. I do not see ppl trying to improve PvP, it is more or less always about the opposite; "Can we nerf or get rid of this, since I cannot relate".

I have been around in this game, and not just looked into most aspects to see what it is, or gain a quick bronze medal. I have njoyed most parts of the game, and the parts I found bothering, I simply left alone. I am fully aware you cannot avoid PvP, seeing as you can get attacked every moment. HCS however have listened to those complaining about this, and made a somewhat solid business change to the game, where players for a low fee, can protect their XP. This to appease to who like to smack around for gold, and those who feel overly attached to their XP. To say I do not comprehend the opposition, is the sorta statements, that started the downfall of this game. Players complaining enough about others players, yelling "they do not understand" long enough till HCS started to listen. This game has always had a group of players wanting to enrich 'emselves without having any risks included. Those have made the ladder into the bastard child we have today, and they were the ones the community had many a discussion about back in the days, where the dominance medal was something a select few traded amongst each other. I should know this, as I earned my first dominance ticks back then by smacking ppl, and got plenty of pm's about how they wanted the system to work, and what would happen if I did not fall in line.

The suggestion made by the OP is to ADD something... not nerf or remove or soften... all other aspects of the game remains as is. I heard no yelling, no complaints, nothing... on the contrary, I saw a LOT of complaints similar to yours... HCS only listens to certain people, they only listen to certain complaints, Why weaken PVP etc.

 

 

I never claimed bullying was not possible within game mechanisms. I am curious as to why the bully finger always points towards those who njoy PvP. From my point of view, those who wanna make PvP into a children safe house, are just as big bullies as those, who wanna pummel the taste outta someone on an hourly basis.

If someone wanted to bully another person, besides pvp, what other method is there? Send nasty messages? Ignore is available... The bullies that wanna make pvp into a children's safe house... can they do it now? nope... they can try but I doubt HCS will let them. The possibility it can happen is an odd comparison to what can happen in reality today. Can a player pummel the taste outta someone today? yep...

 

 

 

You are correct. I rarely understand the why behind many HCS decisions. From the PvP side of the fence, HCS' decisions on this aspect of the game, is rarely based on solid logic or a firm business plan; Their decisions seems to be mostly based on enough players complaining loudly via forum, tickets and what not. If you read through the PvP threads over the last years, you'll see more than a few threats about players not paying/donating another cent to the game, unless they are heard. If you go far enough back, you'll see "pure" PvPers stating this or that suggested change, would drive them from the game. If you look at their offline time, you'll notice they have indeed stopped playing the game.

I'm always impressed with people who know what is in HCS's best interest. You win this argument since I have no insight on their business plan and fact that their logic is not good. Only HCS knows who donates to them. If I were them, my logic would follow the money. In my limited opinion due to my lack of insight, I think this is a no win situation for them... they lean too far one way, they alienate a portion of their base, they lean too far the other way and there goes another group.

 

You can also find a thread about the Smasher medal, including suggestions to a gold stealer medal, changes towards the PvP ladder, the dominance medal, which included support both sides of the fence. Only a very few of those suggestions were implemented (including the smasher medal), and nerfed to the point where it was hard to recognize 'em within a matter of days, due to a select few complaining via "behind the scenes" communication with HCS, that they could not get the new medal without putting their xp at risk.

Smasher medal had support from both sides of the fence? really? That was the worst idea ever imho. If you can't see why that was a bad idea... Wow...

 

As is, the game has a way for those who wanna keep their xp in place.

Yes, for a price

As is, those who wanna do safe and riskfree PvP have a place to do so.

As is, those who wanna go full steam and smack hard while getting smacked 'emselves, are getting alienated.

Alienated? by who? This makes no sense :/

As is, those who njoy PvP are forced outta the game, and called bullies by those trying to force 'em outta the game.

Who's forcing whom? someone smacks someone for 100 stam hit and HCS kicks them out? I don't think so... Someone smacks another player constantly for a week every hour? smells of bullying... good riddance.

As is, the developers have still not made a business decision on what this game should, or should not include PvP wise.

We can all log in... we can all hit each other... the rules are established... this makes no sense either :/

As is, some of us have been around long enough to remember Hoof stating:

"You won't get banned for PvP - it's part of the game." ,

Sure - but say you take PVP to the extreme I mentioned earlier... constantly hit a player for weeks every hour... acceptable? I did that in another pvp game... I never got banned... guess what happened to my victim? They quit... is that what we want?

Forn stating:

"Hitting Every hour is not Harassment, it is harassment if you are sent nasty messages along side the attacks by that person. If this happens please report the messages so support can deal with them appropriately.",

BG stating: "Remember, this is a PvP game."

I'd like to see the context... I think FS is much more then just a PVP game...

and even Xakano stating:

"We have already changed PvP and restrictions on attacking, if you do not wish to be attacked then there is the ability to opt out via your upgrade screen."

 

This is why, I do not understand the complaining.

Again, check who is doing more of the complaining especially in this thread... The OP's suggestion is merely an addition that is being complained about and hijacked.

 

 

 

[Calista]

As is, the game has a way for those who wanna keep their xp in place.

As is, those who wanna do safe and riskfree PvP have a place to do so.

As is, those who wanna go full steam and smack hard while getting smacked 'emselves, are getting alienated.

As is, those who njoy PvP are forced outta the game, and called bullies by those trying to force 'em outta the game.

As is, the developers have still not made a business decision on what this game should, or should not include PvP wise.

As is, some of us have been around long enough to remember Hoof stating:

"You won't get banned for PvP - it's part of the game." ,

Forn stating:

"Hitting Every hour is not Harassment, it is harassment if you are sent nasty messages along side the attacks by that person. If this happens please report the messages so support can deal with them appropriately.",

BG stating: "Remember, this is a PvP game."

and even Xakano stating:

"We have already changed PvP and restrictions on attacking, if you do not wish to be attacked then there is the ability to opt out via your upgrade screen."

 

This is why, I do not understand the complaining.

 

 

QFT!

As a pvp player, it's very confusing to be told to follow one set of guidelines only to have the people who set those guidelines up start throwing around names like 'bully' when those guidelines are followed. No offense to the OP, but honestly I hope HCS just leaves it alone. PvP suffers every time a change is made. It seriously makes my stomach drop every time i see a link to another proposed change that HCS is considering. How about just a clearly defined set of rules that won't be yanked out from under us without warning? You know, a set of rules everyone has to follow, as in both sides?  'This is the way it is, deal with it' rather then 'Yeah those are the rules but screaming will get those changed without warning'.

[yotwehc]

QFT!

As a pvp player, it's very confusing to be told to follow one set of guidelines only to have the people who set those guidelines up start throwing around names like 'bully' when those guidelines are followed. No offense to the OP, but honestly I hope HCS just leaves it alone. PvP suffers every time a change is made. It seriously makes my stomach drop every time i see a link to another proposed change that HCS is considering. How about just a clearly defined set of rules that won't be yanked out from under us without warning? You know, a set of rules everyone has to follow, as in both sides?  'This is the way it is, deal with it' rather then 'Yeah those are the rules but screaming will get those changed without warning'.

The rules are a guideline... People will exploit rules... then the rules need to change. as in the example I posed previously, the current rules allow you to pvp someone every hour. When someone takes it to the extreme and constantly beats up on the target for weeks on end, is that cool? Does HCS have to specify in the rules, you can hit someone every hour up till a max of 10x? Not sure what rule you are talking about but I don't think HCS would hap-hazardly change the rules just to annoy you. It's actually kind of sad that HCS has to do that in the first place. If something is happening to the point where someone has to "scream" and you want that screaming to be ignored...

 

Back to the OP, he is NOT suggesting changes to PVP. Just an additional feature...

 

OP - maybe give it a different name so there is not such a freakout... Call it PlayVPlay or something else.

[clock96]

I suggest stop talking about buffs, high levels and low levels, new medals, bullying or anything else and focus in the OP plz don't get this out of topic please, thank you

[Tastria]

Wow!  PvP is a whole lot more complicated then I ever thought

[BigGrim]

I am not gonna say this again. Stay on topic and be civil. If I see any more off topic posts or flames, they will be removed and poster will be suspended.

[avvakum]

IDEA 2:- <- its been suggested many times. No sympathy from the cows. Intuitively they feel it will be abused somehow.

[avvakum]

IDEA 1 :- <- some sense, some interest, a bit confusing/overwhelming to the new players. XP, VL, PVP XP, what else? It should be simpler as possible. The best player medal should be for the top places in both ladders. Month/Overall PvP ladders would be ok too.  

[clock96]

IDEA 1 :- <- some sense, some interest, a bit confusing/overwhelming to the new players. XP, VL, PVP XP, what else? It should be simpler as possible. The best player medal should be for the top places in both ladders. Month/Overall PvP ladders would be ok too.

I didn't suggest any changes to the ladder neither I said that this will be a replacement for the ladder so no need to start talking about medals and how to get it, as I said it will be an addition to the current PvP system and I don't think it will be that confusing to new players, they will just see it as they see "PvP prestige" , PvP rating, band, etc...new players don't get them fast but after a few days in the game with the help of their guild or people they contact in the game, they will get it and know, IMO, it isn't that confusing, remember by putting your mouse pointer over each of them, you get a small explanation of what this is, right ?

[murabane]

From what im getting this is something entirely separate from nearly everything PVP related currently in the game, in the sense it won't replace or change anything right? So ill go with that, pretty much it would be a lot similar to composing. You would have a leveling system, to which each level would unlock something new right?

 

How in depth do we want to go with this though it can be as simple as earning a level and gaining or losing XP, maybe earning some decent potions, resources, maybe new armor, bounty tickets, etc. But potions in this instance should all be PVP related, no Lightfoots, Adept Learners, Brew Masters and what have you. You cap it like composing, and instead of composing you would be able to lose xp as well as earn it. Maybe just allot points based off of wins, or cash in XP you earn as ways to buy the prizes(A small percent could go to the side similar to contributed guild xp but like Prestige you would burn it up when using it but only the required amount for the prize not the whole lot of it), or even go with Prestige to be the way to cash in? The higher your PVP level the better unlocks, or maybe even more xp gained per win?

 

Attacker would gain X xp and the Defender would lose Y xp provided there was a loss, but you would be able to earn more xp for winning a conflict(Be it on the attack or defense). So lets say attacker gains 100 XP for the win and defender loses 50 XP, however the attacker does not take the other persons XP only new XP so no XP transfer. So you could potentially incorporate it with the Bounty board so you could earn and lose PVP XP. But i guess that could be decided at a different time and maybe not include PVP XP. But it would also have to be decided on how much xp is gained from a regular 10 stam vs 100 stam, as well as the leveling XP between each level.

 

 

But i would say between the two of them Option 1, it's more likely to succeed and maybe less headache too. Hopefully i didn't stray to far from what your aiming at

[shindrak]

Why should high levels be rewarded?  Besides making the ranges bigger for higher levels, PvP should be equal to all, no extra benefit should be given just because one is a high level. 

It's not reward,its similar to current normal level system ... you levelup to wear new sets and have more buffs

I just suggested same for pvp level

 

  We already have a gap between new players vs EOC, allowing certain levels to access buff vs other isn't fair, in my opinion.

How is it unfair for high level players to have more benefits than lower level... they cant challenge low level players anyway in pvp so its completly fair

[justinian9]

From what im getting this is something entirely separate from nearly everything PVP related currently in the game, in the sense it won't replace or change anything right? So ill go with that, pretty much it would be a lot similar to composing. You would have a leveling system, to which each level would unlock something new right?

 

How in depth do we want to go with this though it can be as simple as earning a level and gaining or losing XP, maybe earning some decent potions, resources, maybe new armor, bounty tickets, etc. But potions in this instance should all be PVP related, no Lightfoots, Adept Learners, Brew Masters and what have you. You cap it like composing, and instead of composing you would be able to lose xp as well as earn it. Maybe just allot points based off of wins, or cash in XP you earn as ways to buy the prizes(A small percent could go to the side similar to contributed guild xp but like Prestige you would burn it up when using it but only the required amount for the prize not the whole lot of it), or even go with Prestige to be the way to cash in? The higher your PVP level the better unlocks, or maybe even more xp gained per win?

 

Attacker would gain X xp and the Defender would lose Y xp provided there was a loss, but you would be able to earn more xp for winning a conflict(Be it on the attack or defense). So lets say attacker gains 100 XP for the win and defender loses 50 XP, however the attacker does not take the other persons XP only new XP so no XP transfer. So you could potentially incorporate it with the Bounty board so you could earn and lose PVP XP. But i guess that could be decided at a different time and maybe not include PVP XP. But it would also have to be decided on how much xp is gained from a regular 10 stam vs 100 stam, as well as the leveling XP between each level.

 

 

But i would say between the two of them Option 1, it's more likely to succeed and maybe less headache too. Hopefully i didn't stray to far from what your aiming at

What about this, if you have a negative number in PvP level or PvP XP your PvP enhancements max are lowered (PvP combat only) and as you gain PvP level or PvP XP you gain PvP enhancements max % increase (above 100%)(PvP combat only)?

 

This would have to cap out at some point. 

[Melons]

It's not reward,its similar to current normal level system ... you levelup to wear new sets and have more buffs

I just suggested same for pvp level

 

Ah I see what you mean.  That was a misunderstanding on my part, sorry for that.

 

How is it unfair for high level players to have more benefits than lower level... they cant challenge low level players anyway in pvp so its completly fair

 

Why should high levels have a benefit in the first place?  Most of the low levels can't compete with some of the high level PvP sets right now(referring to the Bounty Board). Buffs should available to everyone, not just a select few due to their level, in my opinion. 

Edited by Melons, 18 September 2014 - 23:08.

[murabane]

What about this, if you have a negative number in PvP level or PvP XP your PvP enhancements max are lowered (PvP combat only) and as you gain PvP level or PvP XP you gain PvP enhancements max % increase (above 100%)(PvP combat only)?

 

This would have to cap out at some point. 

 

That could be interesting, but i guess it would depend on how negative your PVP level would go as well as how much you would want to increase or decrease the % for each level. One thing that may be able to be done without having a negative level is a losing streak/winning streak. For every so many either losses or wins, a select few of enhancements could increase or decrease.

[clock96]

Guys, lets not ask for a lot so that HCS don't have to do a lot, let's start with less prizes, HCS can add more each month, new buffs will take a lot of time to design, BG is the one who should say what the rewards should be (as he knows what HCS can fastly do), maybe PvP potions that already exist to begin with, and no PvP XP will be cashed in for rewardes, its not Prestige, if you cash it in for rewards then how can you level up ? High levels won't attack low levels so no benefit for high levels and PvP XP shall have nothing to do with bounty board IMO so no need to talk about low levels attacks on high levels on board

[clock96]

What about this, if you have a negative number in PvP level or PvP XP your PvP enhancements max are lowered (PvP combat only) and as you gain PvP level or PvP XP you gain PvP enhancements max % increase (above 100%)(PvP combat only)?

This would have to cap out at some point.

Good idea I think

That could be interesting, but i guess it would depend on how negative your PVP level would go as well as how much you would want to increase or decrease the % for each level. One thing that may be able to be done without having a negative level is a losing streak/winning streak. For every so many either losses or wins, a select few of enhancements could increase or decrease.

Isn't adding a streak for winning and loosing will really compelicate things up after adding the enhancements thingy ?

Edit: can you explain more cuz I think I misunderstood

Edited by clock96, 18 September 2014 - 23:55.

[murabane]

Guys, lets not ask for a lot so that HCS don't have to do a lot, let's start with less prizes, HCS can add more each month, new buffs will take a lot of time to design, BG is the one who should say what the rewards should be (as he knows what HCS can fastly do), maybe PvP potions that already exist to begin with, and no PvP XP will be cashed in for rewardes, its not Prestige, if you cash it in for rewards then how can you level up ? High levels won't attack low levels so no benefit for high levels and PvP XP shall have nothing to do with bounty board IMO so no need to talk about low levels attacks on high levels on board

 

Well you have to talk about a lot to round out the idea

 

I was just listing what could be for rewards/cash ins whether there needs to be or what could be is all up in the air and truly HCS would determine everything in that matter, but us talking about it sparks interest and ever more ideas to come which helps them determine that.

 

And like i said, like you contribute xp to your guild.. when you make an attack in this system a small portion could go to the side to which you could spend, if you wanted to make that a way to spend. You still level up and possible delevel, provided you make this system a system to which you can lose xp in a lost attack.

 

And if you make this a high level vs low level your making a pvp arena, to which then you need to tweak you idea a bit.

 

Isn't adding a streak for winning and loosing will really compelicate things up after adding the enhancements thingy ?

Edit: can you explain more cuz I think I misunderstood

 

Well if there is no negative pvp level to reduce the loss of enhancements, you could do the same with a "losing streak" so a player having lost X battles in a row would lose X amount % of their certain enhancements per evey so many losses. To which a winning streak would give you a small bonus to your certain enhancements.