219 replies to this topic

[Glaucous]

i think that if you opt into the ladder then every one on it should be a potential target - mates or not 

 

yes there could be collusion between mates but that collusion will cost em xp loss 

 

speaking of xp loss --- the new proposed global seasons events =( 

 

this is what hoof said ---->  

 

2) The PvP Season system will no longer be a permanent feature, but instead we will remove the Titan League part and convert it into a new form of opt-in Global PvP Event. As well as this, during the PvP Events we will re-instate XP Loss for rated hits and also remove the ability to place a bounty for them.

 

i cannot see how this will not be a total disaster if hcs uses the same guidelines as how current seasons works 

 

picture this a high lvl player smashing all that come up as targets causing xp loss and lvls loss - now add in 100 other players doing the same thing all thru the event 

they are removing the titian league so  the open lvl combat will not be a thing  the level ranges will be just like they were in wood-crystal. 

 

I think that i should still be allowed to bounty/ be bountyed though,

leave  it up to  us to decide how we play if its an unspoken rule that ladder players dont bounty eachother then let it be unspoken. 

 

i remember people asking me to join their delvling partys and explaining that this person had double dipped or bountyed a clean clear  those were fun times.

 

I know the price of every  swing, i can be hit back i can lose i can be bountyed i could lose 5 for hitting the wrong guys PVP has been made soft and were losing people because of it. 

 

Just my opinion 

[sweetlou]

Bound stuff is good.

I disagree! I think it there needs to be potions and gear just like in the Arena and the rest of the game - UNBOUND!! Let the game's marketplace handle the Ladder's value. Why is PvP always relegated to being unprofitable unlike other aspects? It's discriminatory and needs to stop.

Edited by sweetlou, 18 August 2015 - 04:36.

[Davros81]

I disagree! I think it there needs to be potions and gear just like in the Arena and the rest of the game - UNBOUND!! Let the game's marketplace handle the Ladder's value. Why is PvP always relegated to being unprofitable unlike other aspects? It's discriminatory and needs to stop.

I concur old sport!! here here!!

[Belaric]

I would like to see different rewards that would not only encourage pvpers but other play styles (levelers, farmers, ....) to join the pvp ladder

 

rewards that I would like to see:

• pvp and hunting crystalline gear with great stats but different durability (for hunting gear low durability because you always use UB and hunt for a "short" time, finish hunting usually before your UB expires; pvp gear medium durability because you use them a lot longer than for hunting and the gear will be used when you are offline too, sometimes with an expired UB and it will lose faster duration that the hunting gear)
• pvp and leveling bound and unbound potions with diffrent durations (yotekiller post https://forums.hunte...-2#entry944510)
• frag stashes (being on the pvp ladder and spending stamina and frags for composing pots drains a lot, they can get some frags back with buying frag stashes from the frag shop paying with tokens)
• upgrades (reserve stamina, max stamina, .....)
• unique special potions that are only availabe from the pvp ladder  (like a prestige-LIB potion that does only work on prestige or a wrath potion that increases all stats by 5-10%)
• increasing potion duration with adding extra x tokens (could use same interface as composing without frags but with tokens)
• EPICS but will need a lot of tokens, long and difficult to get
• add stamina gain per hour purchase-able with tokens (max 5-10 stamina gain), long and difficult to get (this will encourage other playing styles to go for them too)

I believe the more different rewards for different playing styles are added the more activity the pvp ladder will draw in

some will go for the frag stashes, others for the sets or stamina gain, everyone has different priorities

 

please make inventor II not work when inventing pvp ladder gear

 

I like a lot of these ideas, good call.

 

I'm not sure about PvP token epics, or PvP token stam gain, but will defer to HCS's judgement on that.

 

Maybe have some new inventables that require existing PvP gear as parts of the new recipes - like helhearts/agiads etc.  used in conjunction with new expensive pvp token only items to create new higher level sets. Along the same lines as the santork war set creation using previous santork sets. That will require either a lot of tokens, or will help burn off some of the old stockpiles, and still be highly profitable for those who did stick it out on the ladders and earn those tokens. 

Edited by Belaric, 12 August 2015 - 20:48.

[apedde]

I would like to see different rewards that would not only encourage pvpers but other play styles (levelers, farmers, ....) to join the pvp ladder

 

rewards that I would like to see:

• pvp and hunting crystalline gear with great stats but different durability (for hunting gear low durability because you always use UB and hunt for a "short" time, finish hunting usually before your UB expires; pvp gear medium durability because you use them a lot longer than for hunting and the gear will be used when you are offline too, sometimes with an expired UB and it will lose faster duration that the hunting gear)
• pvp and leveling bound and unbound potions with diffrent durations (yotekiller post https://forums.hunte...-2#entry944510)
• frag stashes (being on the pvp ladder and spending stamina and frags for composing pots drains a lot, they can get some frags back with buying frag stashes from the frag shop paying with tokens)
• upgrades (reserve stamina, max stamina, .....)
• unique special potions that are only availabe from the pvp ladder  (like a prestige-LIB potion that does only work on prestige or a wrath potion that increases all stats by 5-10%)
• increasing potion duration with adding extra x tokens (could use same interface as composing without frags but with tokens)
• EPICS but will need a lot of tokens, long and difficult to get
• add stamina gain per hour purchase-able with tokens (max 5-10 stamina gain), long and difficult to get (this will encourage other playing styles to go for them too)

I believe the more different rewards for different playing styles are added the more activity the pvp ladder will draw in

some will go for the frag stashes, others for the sets or stamina gain, everyone has different priorities

 

please make inventor II not work when inventing pvp ladder gear

this rewards bring activity for pvp

 

but add this reward too

• EPIC CHEST: if pillow fight system season gets epic chests then pvp ladder with xp loss need get epic chests too

[KitiaraLi]

I disagree! I think it there needs to be potions and gear just like in the Arena and the rest of the game - UNBOUND!! Let the game's marketplace handle the Ladder's value. Why is PvP always relegated to being unprofitable unlike other aspects? It's discriminatory and needs to stop.

I cannot speak for Maeh, but from my stance bound stuff is good. I see no reason why you should be able to profit from being on a ladder (not with the way the ladder was b4 PvP season anyways). As is (was, and will return in that state) the ladder was easily abused, and a bunch of players did so - which you know, since you and I (and Hor, Maeh, Cali, Baoh, Valle, Ape, Micke etc etc) fought long and hard PvP wars with 'em over this.

I can somewhat follow the idea of free market, and the noble thought "I fought for this, I decide what to do with it". Sadly, a minority in this game have proven, that if something can be turned to profit via exploits (bugs, scripting, behind back deals etc) - it will be that way.

In my eyes, if you want the stuff you can gain from PvP, then go PvP!
Don't go with the "I have maxed out my moms cred card again, now look at me having the stuff others have virtually fought for" approach.

Edited by KitiaraLi, 13 August 2015 - 14:21.

[DomCorvis]

I cannot speak for Maeh, but from my stance bound stuff is good. I see no reason why you should be able to profit from being on a ladder (not with the way the ladder was b4 PvP season anyways). As is (was, and will return in that state) the ladder was easily abused, and a bunch of players did so - which you know, since you and I (and Hor, Maeh, Cali, Baoh, Valle, Ape, Micke etc etc) fought long and hard PvP wars with 'em over this.
I can somewhat follow the idea of free market, and the noble thought "I fought for this, I decide what to do with it". Sadly, a minority in this game have proven, that if something can be turned to profit via exploits (bugs, scripting, behind back deals etc) - it will be that way.

In my eyes, if you want the stuff you can gain from PvP, then go PvP!
Don't go with the "I have maxed out my moms cred card again, now look at me having the stuff others have virtually fought for" approach.

im 100% for bound items from ladder...not EVERY item...but the most powerful/desired items should be(make em work for it). maybe make an epic thats bound after invention?(with +2-3 stam gain to make it desirable) or crystal gear with stats near being overpowered?

[Maehdros]

Crystal medium dura items with great ( I mean Great) stats. It'll break, people will need more. Whether they need it for pvp, leveling, or both.


Some may simply only opt in when they need to replace gear/ potions. Some may stay opted in continuously. Either way, some type of reward to keep things active.


The more active a ladder, the more stamina sunk, potions, gold/ composing/ frags that will be used.

[suderlon]

I would like to see different rewards that would not only encourage pvpers but other play styles (levelers, farmers, ....) to join the pvp ladder

 

rewards that I would like to see:

• pvp and hunting crystalline gear with great stats but different durability (for hunting gear low durability because you always use UB and hunt for a "short" time, finish hunting usually before your UB expires; pvp gear medium durability because you use them a lot longer than for hunting and the gear will be used when you are offline too, sometimes with an expired UB and it will lose faster duration that the hunting gear)
• pvp and leveling bound and unbound potions with diffrent durations (yotekiller post https://forums.hunte...-2#entry944510)
• frag stashes (being on the pvp ladder and spending stamina and frags for composing pots drains a lot, they can get some frags back with buying frag stashes from the frag shop paying with tokens)
• upgrades (reserve stamina, max stamina, .....)
• unique special potions that are only availabe from the pvp ladder  (like a prestige-LIB potion that does only work on prestige or a wrath potion that increases all stats by 5-10%)
• increasing potion duration with adding extra x tokens (could use same interface as composing without frags but with tokens)
• EPICS but will need a lot of tokens, long and difficult to get
• add stamina gain per hour purchase-able with tokens (max 5-10 stamina gain), long and difficult to get (this will encourage other playing styles to go for them too)

I believe the more different rewards for different playing styles are added the more activity the pvp ladder will draw in

some will go for the frag stashes, others for the sets or stamina gain, everyone has different priorities

 

please make inventor II not work when inventing pvp ladder gear

 

I disagree! I think it there needs to be potions and gear just like in the Arena and the rest of the game - UNBOUND!! Let the game's marketplace handle the Ladder's value. Why is PvP always relegated to being unprofitable unlike other aspects? It's discriminatory and needs to stop.

 

 

this rewards bring activity for pvp

 

but add this reward too

• EPIC CHEST: if pillow fight system season gets epic chests then pvp ladder with xp loss need get epic chests too

 

agree with those posts above

Edited by suderlon, 13 August 2015 - 17:08.

[EpicPiety]

agree with those posts above

No, pvp season is 3 weeks...ladder is like 1-2 days tops

[clock96]

I have read several ideas avout having crystalline PvP sets as rewards and I am supportin these ideas but how will HCS make crystalline gear with perfect stats for each ladder range (26 ranges) so atleast 26 sets, maybe atleast two for each range if not more then that's 52+ new sets and btw they are more than 26 ranges, that will take years for HCS to make IMO, cause they have to check how each set can be used for each level range, how they can complete setups in specific level ranges with specific stats, so just how ?

[suderlon]

No, pvp season is 3 weeks...ladder is like 1-2 days tops

I think the 2 pvp seasons were 1 week each and the rewards were 12 epic potions and other items

pvp season is 4,5 times longer than the pvp ladder, pvp season gives you the 12 epics after 1 week, the pvp ladder will need tokens to buy those epics and might take you longer depending on which rank you got when the ladder reset

 

pvp ladder has a lot more risk than the pvp season, every lost attack costs you xp and you can get bountied on the ladder

if you compare the risks then the pvp ladder should have in my opinion even better rewards than the pvp season

 

you are talking about time (3 weeks vs 1,5 days), you will not be able to get an epic after each ladder reset, you will need to save your pvp tokens for a long time to be able to buy the epic with your tokens, if you do not rank first every time then it might take you more than 4 weeks or even 8 weeks depending how many tokens you get every reset and how many tokens you have to pay for the epic

 

the pvp season guarantes you 12 epic potions after 3 weeks but the pvp ladder does not, depending on how good you are, how your rank is after every reset and how many tokens you get it might take you months, not weeks to get the epic

[fusionj]

I have read several ideas avout having crystalline PvP sets as rewards and I am supportin these ideas but how will HCS make crystalline gear with perfect stats for each ladder range (26 ranges) so atleast 26 sets, maybe atleast two for each range if not more then that's 52+ new sets and btw they are more than 26 ranges, that will take years for HCS to make IMO, cause they have to check how each set can be used for each level range, how they can complete setups in specific level ranges with specific stats, so just how ?

 

Sets don't have to be range specific, they only have to be wearable by the lowest range they're for. Plenty of sets get used for a few hundred levels. A really good one, like would be considered a prize for this, should be an asset for at least 200 levels.

 

This is less true at lower levels.

Edited by fusionj, 13 August 2015 - 22:17.

[clock96]

Sets don't have to be range specific, they only have to be wearable by the lowest range they're for. Plenty of sets get used for a few hundred levels. A really good one, like would be considered a prize for this, should be an asset for at least 200 levels.
 
This is less true at lower levels.

it would be cool if that happens though

[sweetlou]

I cannot speak for Maeh, but from my stance bound stuff is good. I see no reason why you should be able to profit from being on a ladder (not with the way the ladder was b4 PvP season anyways). As is (was, and will return in that state) the ladder was easily abused, and a bunch of players did so - which you know, since you and I (and Hor, Maeh, Cali, Baoh, Valle, Ape, Micke etc etc) fought long and hard PvP wars with 'em over this.

I can somewhat follow the idea of free market, and the noble thought "I fought for this, I decide what to do with it". Sadly, a minority in this game have proven, that if something can be turned to profit via exploits (bugs, scripting, behind back deals etc) - it will be that way.

In my eyes, if you want the stuff you can gain from PvP, then go PvP!
Don't go with the "I have maxed out my moms cred card again, now look at me having the stuff others have virtually fought for" approach.

We all have our opinions. I hope the Ladder can be updated in a way that unbound Ladder rewards will incentivize players to participate and allow those players who excel to benefit - like THE REST OF THE GAME! Slip some kind of control like Titan hunting whereas a player must sit out a round or two after a victory. I don't have the answers. I'm not being paid to develop this game. What I do want is for PvP to stop being relegated to second class player status. Concessions are always being made to take any skill and competition out of PvP. This last attempt, which thankfully will be reversed, pathetically automated pay to punish. It takes ABSOLUTELY NO SKILL to load up 1m gold on a player and watch them lose 3 levels. I think allowing players to compete for unbound rewards like potions and gear will drive more players to play in the Ladder - a Ladder that still needs some adjustments!

[KitiaraLi]

<snip> I think allowing players to compete for unbound rewards like potions and gear will drive more players to play in the Ladder - a Ladder that still needs some adjustments!

This could be true. It is an argument that has been raised many times in the many other threads about the "broken" ladder, that's for sure. The same has the counter argument; It could drive more players to the ladder, if they could not get the ladder rewards elsewhere.

The rewards would have to be good/useful enough for either of the two thesis above to be valid though, and I hope the cows are starting to realize this. As stated a few times in this thread, it is not enough with only gear, or only potions, or only the possibility to make an epic via tokens + epic inventing. It has to be all, and there has to be plenty of possibilities in each option.
If not, it will be a short time those pants feels warm again.


For those of you asking for prestige enhancers via the ladder rewards; You are aware that the 10% bonus is pretty high, right? And you are aware you can extend how long the prestige buff is running, by simply doing more PvP?

[bigchaos]

I have a question on the new trophies and recipes. I read in a forum thread somewhere that gurgris Colosseum is where these recipes are supposed to be, are they out yet?. If they are, I was wondering if a list of gear and levels be put here in this forum some where. Thanks   

 

The next question will the season gear be same as ladder gear?   I do agree gear needs to be bound so that if you want the gear earn the gear.  Potions I am thinking powerful ones like a prestige types need to be bound but an upper end of a buff should not be. The reason make those earn prestige if they want that potion and the potions are upper end of a buff that is all ready out could be something to entice others to come to the ladder to get more. Just my thought on the topic. 

 

Thank you hcs for the season league and I will say I had fun trying something different and I surely hope the ladder gets a worth wild update in function besides prizes.   

Edited by bigchaos, 14 August 2015 - 13:16.

[kitobas]

I would like to see different rewards that would not only encourage pvpers but other play styles (levelers, farmers, ....) to join the pvp ladder

 

rewards that I would like to see:

• pvp and hunting crystalline gear with great stats but different durability (for hunting gear low durability because you always use UB and hunt for a "short" time, finish hunting usually before your UB expires; pvp gear medium durability because you use them a lot longer than for hunting and the gear will be used when you are offline too, sometimes with an expired UB and it will lose faster duration that the hunting gear)
• pvp and leveling bound and unbound potions with diffrent durations (yotekiller post https://forums.hunte...-2#entry944510)
• frag stashes (being on the pvp ladder and spending stamina and frags for composing pots drains a lot, they can get some frags back with buying frag stashes from the frag shop paying with tokens)
• upgrades (reserve stamina, max stamina, .....)
• unique special potions that are only availabe from the pvp ladder  (like a prestige-LIB potion that does only work on prestige or a wrath potion that increases all stats by 5-10%)
• increasing potion duration with adding extra x tokens (could use same interface as composing without frags but with tokens)
• EPICS but will need a lot of tokens, long and difficult to get
• add stamina gain per hour purchase-able with tokens (max 5-10 stamina gain), long and difficult to get (this will encourage other playing styles to go for them too)

I believe the more different rewards for different playing styles are added the more activity the pvp ladder will draw in

some will go for the frag stashes, others for the sets or stamina gain, everyone has different priorities

 

please make inventor II not work when inventing pvp ladder gear

but rewards need be UNBOUND, pvp arena, gvg and titan hunting, SE hunting having UNBOUND too, pvp ladder should having UNBOUND too

everyone wanting making profit, why not from pvp ladder too?

 

 

this rewards bring activity for pvp

 

but add this reward too

• EPIC CHEST: if pillow fight system season gets epic chests then pvp ladder with xp loss need get epic chests too

 

I agreeing, if league (having no xp loss) having epic then pvp ladder (having xp loss) need having epic too

Edited by kitobas, 14 August 2015 - 23:35.

[sweetlou]

This could be true. It is an argument that has been raised many times in the many other threads about the "broken" ladder, that's for sure. The same has the counter argument; It could drive more players to the ladder, if they could not get the ladder rewards elsewhere.

The rewards would have to be good/useful enough for either of the two thesis above to be valid though, and I hope the cows are starting to realize this. As stated a few times in this thread, it is not enough with only gear, or only potions, or only the possibility to make an epic via tokens + epic inventing. It has to be all, and there has to be plenty of possibilities in each option.
If not, it will be a short time those pants feels warm again.


For those of you asking for prestige enhancers via the ladder rewards; You are aware that the 10% bonus is pretty high, right? And you are aware you can extend how long the prestige buff is running, by simply doing more PvP?

Everything about fixing the Ladder depends on what incentive is created to play it and if there are enough players playing it ALL the time. I like the idea of the Ladder itself - allow somewhat like players to compete for a short period of time in a special PvP setting for a reward. There has always been a few pressing issues, as I see it, with how the old Ladder worked that could be adjusted to add incentive to more players(I am NOT talking about removing xp loss - that is left for GvG!) Here they are:

 

Stam demands playing the Ladder have always been extremely too high! Players need to be allowed to continue growing in the game and play the Ladder simultaneously. Staying buffed for 48 hours(the longest duration of a Ladder) is EXPENSIVE! Additionally using 100 stam hits add to the cost. If stam usage in Seasons taught us anything I think there should be a max use of 50 stam hits on the Ladder. 100 stam use must remain for punishment and gold stealing! But on the Ladder all players will have opted in, they should not be punished with the ultimate stam attack for playing on a ladder nor should they be exempt from xp loss risk, INCLUDING BEING BOUNTIED! Another idea is allowing anyone on the Ladder to have any buffs cast upon them last double the duration automatically. This idea will attract players who play all types of aspects requiring buffs. They could use the additional buff duration bonus as an incentive to play the Ladder.

 

Prestige itself needs to be updated in a major way! First, Prestige should be gained on EVERY Ladder hit. Secondly, players need to be able to use incremental amounts of Prestige, not the ALL or NONE usage of the past. Give players flexibility with how they use a reward. Lastly and most importantly Prestige needs to be gained depending on Stam usage - 10 stam attacks gain only one Prestige while 50 stam attacks gain 10(Ladder only!) Stam usage is dependent on everything else in the game, why not with Prestige? It will stop Prestige trading immediately!

 

Now as for the rewards, I don't think gear is the answer and certainly leave whatever the reward  is UNBOUND. I believe now that potions are the best answer and here's why. Gear always needs to be updated as the game progresses. We already know this NEVER happens! Development can't keep up. It's what made the last Ladder's incentive disappear. Potions are expended after every use leaving a built in obsolescence and demand. The only problem is the devs need to come up with something beyond making crazy DC500s uber pots that last 3 days. The current trend in the game development  making everything EPIC and uberpowerful needs to be reigned in. Start with new specialty buffs that give something new.

 

There are a ton of skill ideas here:

https://forums.hunte...ts/#entry727516

or here

https://forums.hunte...st/#entry637453

and what ever happened to these plans here?

https://forums.hunte...12/#entry725178

 

Most of all, without a renewed consistent development ALL of these well intended plans for PvP and the Ladder will be for nod. We need FULL TIME development by coders(ie Hoof!) until this MAJOR update is complete, THEN return to part time development that we've seen for so long that has put us in our current predicament.

 

My two.

[RageAnger]

Think I'd rather unbound items and crystal so they can keep value - Sets are the most needed reward

 

Potions could be a good idea too but I'd rather they not be too overpowered and not bound either.

For a pvp potion they should not be anything above level 250.

The seasons potions were insanely overpowered and last way, way too long! 

Prestige potions and hunting potions would be good too - Adept learner, Librairian, Conserve, Reckoning.

I know you probly don't want to but higher level Treasure Hunter and Merchant would be good.

 

From the highest level current ladder set to EOC I think that armor sets are needed way more then defense.

Armor and Damage or Attack and Armor.

 

Id suggest sets above level 1700:

-something with armor and attack - Boot+Ring set (1800+)

-armor attack or armor damage - amulet+shield (2000+)

-armor attack or armor damage - weapon+ring (2200+)

-armor attack or armor damage - boots+helm (2400+)

-armor attack or armor damage - gloves+ring (2600+)

Doesnt have to be those level for those sets exactly, can switch it up but I see some combos that could work with those types of stats.

I strongly suggest trying to make setups yourself before bringing in new sets so you get an idea of what works, but it can be time consuming.

 

I think some changes need to be made when it comes to defense and armor setups.

 

Seems to me right now that everyone I see doing any type of combat is either going to use an attack defense setup or a just enough attack setup leaning towards defense and as much damage as possible (to hunt) there is no longer a point to use an armor setup and here's why and here's my suggestions.

 

When I attack someone that has chosen an armor setup all I have to worry about is having at least half damage to their armor and more defense then their attack and I know I already have the odds way in my favor. There is a much more than 2% chance that critical hit kicks in then the 2% rule. So already defense is better then armor, I have a much easier time covering the stats because I only half to cover half the armor. I'll give more reasons why defense is better.

 

1. With defense there is the nightmare visage buff and barricade buff to add even more defense:

attack to defense or damage to defense.

- with armor there is only entrench (damage to armor)

 

2. Shatter armor - there is no shatter defense

 

3. Shield Strike to give double damage which beats defense - there is no buff to give double attack

 

4. Piercing strike and the buff to increase it's effectiveness, there is no piercing strike vs defense 

- enhancement to half someones defense.

 

5. There are legendary sets with defense at levels. 1725-1775-1810-1900-2100-2400 

- the 2 highest legendary or crystal sets I found with armor are at level 2025 and 1880

the level 2025 set has no attack and the level 1880 is un-repairable.   

 

For 1,2,3,4 those could be new buffs or new potion buffs from the ladder only.

 

I think ladder hits should be bountyable mostly just because it will help the bounty board stay more active.

 

Making gold hits count for smasher progress would really help keep the bounty board active too. I think that was my favorite cow idea ever.  

 

I'll probly edit this post a few times.

Edited by RageAnger, 16 August 2015 - 03:10.