77 replies to this topic

[ernzor]

Killing lower levels in PvP is not "baby-killing". You accept the risk when you enter a PvP zone. Farm elsewhere if you don't think the risk is acceptable, or bank your materials more often.

Just quoting for future reference and so more people can read it again

[Brioche]

A bit off-topic from OP, but... let me address some of the main points from the arguments of low-level gatherers.
 
1. Lv 45 players are killing low-level players
2. Lv 45 players don't kill other Lv 45 players
3. This is unfair
4. Low-level players have no chance of fighting back
5. Low-level players can't escape
6. If the friend list advance warning is disabled, players can't avoid pkers
7. Lv 45 players all band together, therefore their arguments are invalid
 
Here is my response.
 
1. Yes, TA is a pvp zone. People run the risk of getting killed just by being on TA. Nothing to complain about here.
 
2. Lv 45 players are more likely to be friends with other Lv 45 players, this is true. However, this doesn't mean that other Lv 45 players aren't being targeted.
 
Besides, just because Lv 45 players aren't attacked, it does not negate the fact that TA is a pvp zone for all players. You should still expect to be attacked there. Whether Lv 45 players are being attacked or not has no bearing on whether lower level players should be attacked or not.
 
3. There seems to be a leap in logical reasoning here. High level players killing low level players = unfair? How so? In the first place, people gain levels by putting in more effort to reach there. It follows from there that higher level players have more benefits. In fact, it would be unfair for lower level players to win 50% of the time against higher level players, when lower level players have put in less effort to train their character.
 
4. This is a blatant generalization. Small chance of winning does not mean no chance of winning. There are multiple factors to consider in pvp, such as:
 
Grouping
First attacker
Terrain
Range
Potions
 
As mentioned in point 3, higher level players have more benefits. Therefore, in most scenarios, one would expect the higher level player to prevail. However, it is entirely possible to win against a higher level player. For example, take an unsuspecting Lv 45 PvE-specced warrior who has equipped a one-handed axe to chop wood. He/she is not expecting any attackers, and has forgotten to bring HP potions. In this case, if a Lv 21 ranger starts attacking, the ranger is likely to win.
 
5 & 6. With the latest update to the enhanced graphics, the maximum zoom out level of the minimap is twice of what it was previously. In other words, you can see red dots on the minimap at a farther distance compared to previously. This gives (at least) 3 to 4 seconds to react, before the possible attacker even gets into range and dismounts. If one is attentive, one can even scan the surroundings without referring to the minimap. The distance that can be seen is twice the distance of the minimap, so this will give you about 9 seconds to react. Try gathering near an exit point.
 
7. Another logical fallacy. 
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

 

In this case, what level you are does not affect the validity of your arguments. It is likely to cause someone to lean toward a certain side of the argument, but it does not make the person's arguments any less valid.

 

I could just as easily say that all lowbies are whiners, so we shouldn't listen to them (not true, but just making a point).

Edited by Brioche, 19 August 2014 - 05:52.

[slipknot84]

nah i kill everyone..cept das..too hard

[RISDMAC]

Brioche I couldn't have said it better myself *applauds*.

 

Your answer is too long to repost all of it    , so just going to focus in on this:

5 & 6. With the latest update to the enhanced graphics, the maximum zoom out level of the minimap is twice of what it was previously. In other words, you can see red dots on the minimap at a farther distance compared to previously. This gives (at least) 3 to 4 seconds to react, before the possible attacker even gets into range and dismounts. If one is attentive, one can even scan the surroundings without referring to the minimap. The distance that can be seen is twice the distance of the minimap, so this will give you about 9 seconds to react. Try gathering near an exit point. 

 

In my opinion the larger view distance makes the "firends list exploit" totally unneccessary.

 

The only people you should have access to vieweing if they are online or not while on TA are those in your group, and if you can multi task, by keeping an eye on world chat.

Edited by JQuan, 19 August 2014 - 08:30.

[lester]

Here's a thought.

 

Train professions outside of TA.

Nah bro, they want a invicibility buff to hog all the resources in TA. Level cap for low levels for example you can only attack people 3 levels under or higher than you -> Translate-> I don't want people to kill me, so if i go in TA at the lowest possible level who is there to stop me from getting maxed out professions?

[lester]

~~ GUESS WHO'S BACK....ZIRXA'S BACK....DALALALALAL~~

 

 

aslways, higher up try to gang up on ppl to make it seem liek there opoin is right, give it up already you know its no cool in TA for us low lvls, and all that great stuff REMEMBER ITS JUST A GAME AND............

 

 

~~NO MORE BABY KILLING~~

[xpwaste]

I knew brioche was one of my intelligent friends[ The one i have to be mature around ]and it has just been proven.

TY brioche.

[zargon]

It's not only the gathering the lower levels  are unable to do. It's also when PL spawns. I know people who PK low levels when PL is up. This is also another part of TA that low levels cannot be enjoying. PK against low levels is just sad. Yes it's a PVP zone. But it should not be a PK one-shot shooting fish in a barrel zone. Add level restrictions and gathering caps. Let the brave 45's fight those their same level and the level 20's can do the same. What's fair is fair.

[xpwaste]

Dont start in PL while talking about gathering.

PL is a world event. Gathering is something else.

 

There is nothing wrong with some world events being deadlier than others. PA is another topic so i won't be talking about that in here.

Edited by xpwaste, 19 August 2014 - 14:22.

[HuMoR]

I take it that im still the only person who actually can see the problem that the best portion of skilling shouldn't be blended in with pvp in the first place

[Massmo]

I take it that im still the only person who actually can see the problem that the best portion of skilling shouldn't be blended in with pvp in the first place

 

Actually I totally agree with you on that one, there should be more resources or better located resources for skillers in the main areas

[lester]

I take it that im still the only person who actually can see the problem that the best portion of skilling shouldn't be blended in with pvp in the first place

I take it I'm the only person who realizes the whole reason HCS put resources in TA, is to get people to PvP,No one at this time would be going to TA if there wasn't any resources, not only that wheres the risk/reward?

Edited by lester, 20 August 2014 - 06:42.

[HuMoR]

I take it I'm the only person who realizes the whole reason HCS put resources in TA, is to get people to PvP,No one at this time would be going to TA if there wasn't any resources, not only that wheres the risk/reward?

Pvpers have no risk and only reward,skilling and pvp shouldn't be blended two complete opposites in general will make for bad combinations.

[lester]

Pvpers have no risk and only reward,skilling and pvp shouldn't be blended two complete opposites in general will make for bad combinations.

It was the first thing that popped in HCS head when they were thinking , how do we get PvE players to get into a PvP zone.I agree that pkers need to risk something, but with this population bringing PvE players to TA by adding resources was a reasonable call by HCS to keep its competitive PKing players.Maybe in the future they will remove it and add something better and take the PvE players out of TA,won't be happening until we reach at the very least 1000 daily active players.

[Neon]

TA needs a proper risk/reward meaning that items/equips should be dropping on death. Of course with the current balance and map I don't think it would be that effective, also the playerbase doesn't help the pvp state in this game.

 

I hope to see TA eventually expanded to be a huge place that takes a good while to navigate around.

[lester]

TA needs a proper risk/reward meaning that items/equips should be dropping on death. Of course with the current balance and map I don't think it would be that effective, also the playerbase doesn't help the pvp state in this game.

 

I hope to see TA eventually expanded to be a huge place that takes a good while to navigate around.

Problem is Neon,  bound items since it is untradeable ,they would probably have to unbound all of them, and like some of the devs said we need to add level restrictions since we can just go in with 1 item and kill any lower level there is risking nothing.

[RISDMAC]

To all the comments saying a proper risk/reward system is needed this is getting a little off topic -

HCS have already commented in a recent update that this is going to be worked on after the hardware rending changes have been finalised. They will be looking at increasing the risk from the perspective of the PVPer and also buffing lower players to stand more of a chance against PVPing max levels and a general rebalance of TA.

 

In its current state, many feel that being able to tag pvpers in friends list as an early warning is an exploit, myself included, and I would fall under the gatherer category rather than PVPer.

I know that some of you would disagree and say that you need the early warning to avoid losing your mats but that is part of the risk incurred while gathering on TA - the benefit is that you get more mats per gather and can stack to 999 + the extra skill xp earned from gathering more mats. With the increased camera angles you have a clear view of your surroundings which should be plenty of time to leave if you wish to do so if you think a PVPer is approaching you. If you don't think the benefit is worth the risk then you really should gather elsewhere rather than request the benefit of TA in a risk free environment - again just how I feel on the issue.

[zirxa]

~~NO MORE HURTING THE LOWER LVLS..(A.K.A. BABAY KILLING)..........

not sure how to do that short videos

 

 

Edited by zirxa, 21 August 2014 - 17:47.