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Smarter PvP Matchmaking


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#1 Doja

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 01:44

Look, I know the whole "low population requires the most basic matchmaking" argument.

 

But this is the current results.  Impressions of a new player.  Other team has three level 45s (including Lahara and Ben) compared to our two.

 

KcxJtdr.png

 

Let repeat what he said: "Worst pvp matchmaking in any game I've ever seen."

 

So you can talk population this, population that, but he's right.  You currently have the WORST pvp matchmaking of any game.  Why?  Because its virtually non-existent.

 

So its your call.  Do you want to adhere to the same fears of population and getting games started.  Or do you want a label of matchmaking so horrible that nobody wants to do PvP.

 

I advocated two PvP tiers just for this reason.  I'll advocate it again but add some other/alternative suggestions as well:

 

1) Have a more advanced system that doesn't just take the first eight.  If the first eight have five top players, the system needs to recognize this and wait for another top player so there can be three on each side, or another not top player so there can be two on each side.

 

2) Better evaluate player strength.  There are level 45s who are undergeared and are just as bad as a level 15 but they get ranked as a 45.  System needs to evaluate K:D ratios of players as well as W:L of players to better divide teams.  Not all 45s are even by a long shot and the game needs checks to recognize this.

 

Some might say: "Its hard enough to get a queue of 8" I'll respond with: So many players don't do PvP simply because the matchmaking or class imbalances are so prevalent.  If these didn't exist more people would PvP and hence it would be easier to not only fill queue but overflow by a person or two so that more even teams could be created.


Edited by Doja, 23 November 2014 - 01:46.

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#2 redsmokeboy

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 01:51

50/50 W:L Ratio - Full geared still under gemed. for lvl 45.

 

Issue is how set up team's:

Temp:

 

Team 1:

Range

Range

Healer

Spell

 

Team 2

Mele - Templar - war

Mele - Assin

Spell user low lvl

Range

 

Very But like put most spell user on 1 team or more range on 1 team Same for mele.

 

This how it set up from what seen:

3 45 + lvl 10 = 145

2 lvl 45 + 2 lvl 30's = 150

 

aveger lvl range is = but not taking in account classes being grouped.

 

DPS typ Spell - mele - range not being used in how team is set up.

Grouping of simlure class 2 or genraly grouped or or more - Team set up not random.

 

Done, 5 match with same time - 1 person leving

Got same team in all 5 match, - 1 other person

Still grouped with same 4 people. Who where sadly say not ready for pvp.

 

Agree with better quere coding sys being implented as just plane sickning at time to see.

 

Healer Spell user 2 range 1 team

other Mele Mele Range Spell

 

Now team 1 unfare advatage over other 2 mele who better spilt between to group.

 

Coding, Split team based on DPS = mele Range Spell  as well average lvl range.

 

2 mele Quere split bettween 2 team's vs team both mele 1 team


Edited by redsmokeboy, 23 November 2014 - 02:01.

Frog - Archer - lvl 49

Kazzarat - Templar lvl 49 Skiller

Redsmokegirl - War/sin lvl 49

 

Q PvP | No repair fee's | 1% EXP of lvl | Valor | Weekly 10 match | Achvemnt's | So much more Join when log | Click on cross sword via mini map Q solo |

 

Looking for group's RG/BT/ASV/ARG/ICC/CC Boss Killing/Arena 30+/ToC/ Need DPS willing come usly asking in world chat.


#3 Doja

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 02:57

Yes Frog, one issue that sometimes arises is imbalance due to classes.  But that's merely one element.  Merely balancing classes doesn't fully solve the problem.

 

The issue is being able to evaluate the participants to some degree to attempt to achieve even matches.  I admit that rarely will perfect balance ever be achieved.  But it doesn't have to be.  As long as the teams are fairly close in strength it is often a fun match.

 

Think of how bad this match was:  When the countdown starts and we see the teams, Chopan and I have to explain to our two lowbie teammates - likely experiencing PvP for the first time - that we're about to get destroyed.  Chopan doesn't even bother leaving the base.  He has already resigned himself to waiting 10 minutes in order to get a match played for the weekly achievement.  I tried to make a brief show of face by leaving the base but I already had the same conclusion.

 

Whether its class, equipment, socketed gems, or simply player skill, the combination of all factors needs to be assessed in making teams.  K:D ratio, an element I know is kept by the game because you can see your own, is probably one of the best statistics.  If the game keeps track of Wins-Losses, this would also be a good statistic for evaluating when a player is really good at helping his team win but perhaps has a play style that doesn't cater to a high K:D.

 

The trick is to break players up into tiers with some competent evaluation.  Everyone with any experience knows that Lahara and Ben are both substantially higher rated than the other three level 45s in the match.  Forced to deal with this assortment of players, one would probably put the top two level 45s together and the next three 45s on the other teams.  By no means would a rational matchmaking system put them on the same team AND give them an extra level 45.
 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

PvP as a whole needs additions.  Major kudos for fixing Drateol's Pit!  The new map is much, much better.  But you still have lowbies who ask about PvP then quit because they "decide its not for them."  When they ask I always try to put a positive spin on things.  But certain elements are factual and cannot be sugercoated:

 

- Only two PvP maps.

 

- Horrible matchmaking algorithm.

 

- Unbalanced classes.

 

- Ranged attacks track around/through walls.

 

- Poor auto-attack tracking system for enemies out of range.

 

- Small issues such as not un-targeting enemy upon respawn.

 

This game was released on Steam.  A large segment of Steam is very competitive and PvP oriented.  I'm not saying that PvP has to be the end game but the PvP in this game is majorly lacking many components compared to other games.  In general it has potential.  As the player in my original post even said: "Seems like it would be fun too."  If this game is going to have greater appeal and longevity, it needs major upgrades to PvP.

 

Guilds:  Guilds are on their way.  But has anyone asked or have any devs written what this update will entail?  Many mmorpgs with guilds have guild wars (PvP battles) or something of the sort.  I think most players are expecting PvP competitions between guilds and not merely a system of chatting with each other.  Another reason to start figuring out upgrades to PvP sooner than later.


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#4 luke94

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 05:07

why was i not named :'(

 

Other team has three level 45s (including Lahara and Ben) compared to our two.

 

 

 


Edited by luke94, 23 November 2014 - 05:07.

June 2013 (beta) - July 2017


#5 reinedor

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 10:14

I agree that a better matchmaking system needs to be implemented, and this is a common sentiment among pvpers.  As HCS has a ton on their plate at the moment, I'd say putting in level tiers would be the most efficient solution for the time being.  I think the range you suggested in another post would be best in addressing concerns over population: dividing players by levels 10-29 and 30-45.

 

There have been enough level 45 pvpers (and some 30s-40s) recently that sometimes 2 matches will run at once.  With the Steam release, there's been enough of an influx of level 13-20s trying out pvp that I feel lower levels could fill up matches as well.  So no, the reason of insufficient population is no longer adequate justification.  Lower levels should also have somewhere to have an even playing ground for pvp; enough opportunities for curb-stomping exist on ta.

 

Wildly imbalanced teams are fun for no one.  If I wanted to shoot fish in a barrel, I'd go grind mobs.



#6 Mongo

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 14:00

Agree with everything here guys. Group PvP has the potential to be lot's of fun in Eldevin and it is a shame they have not addressed these problems. The suggestions here, along with bringing back a group only queue will help  to stop all these pointless matches going on! too often we see players afk in matches, quitting, raging, logging out, agreeing to "throw" matches to exploit achievements, records etc.

 

Fix plz. :P


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#7 Kijjum

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 15:41

Honestly they should just nerf everyone. It would be more fun with longer battles and having to think about what you're going to use instead of stun, snare, hit, next guy. It's boring. It really is. Then with the team matchmaking and unbalanced classes it just sucks even worse. I forget where but I think it was in some PvP forum someone said HCS doesn't plan on Eldevin being a PvP based game. If that is true then there is no point in playing the game :P just a more mature Club Penguin.



#8 Kijjum

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 18:10

If they do end up implementing the dual build (one for PvE one for PvP) and some sort of gear system, I can almost guarantee 90% of the PvPers will spec some sort of magic build. I don't want to bow down to someone who wants to be a pretend wizard and pick an over-powered class. I want real skill involved like the game Chivalry, where you have to dodge attacks and swing at the right time. I don't want to have to crunch numbers to figure out who's going to win for sure, I want there to be a wild card so nobody knows for sure who will win. 




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