107 replies to this topic

[Bluetail]

Rats only have a drop rate of 7.52%, with FI 1150 and Lady Luck 230 you will still need to kill 2500 of them for a breakdown of 380 items. Last time I checked 1.88% X 4 is the exact same thing as 7.52%   so I dont see the problem any different since Im pretty sure there are no mobs out there that drop with more than a 7.52% drop chance. The only difference between Rats and other mobs is that they spawn much less per tile and give 25% of the frags so definitely not something I want to farm for this quest.

 

It may be a good idea for the developers to consider the math or perform test runs (not just to see if the code works but also to see the effort required) before implementing. I have provided the math below.

 

Calculations with 7.52% drop rate (with FI 1150, LL 230)

0.0752*(1+1.15)*1.23 = 0.198 (chance to find)

720/0.198 = 3636 (mobs to kill for 720 drops)

 

Calculations with 7.52% drop rate (with FI 1150, LL 230, Reck 192, AM, CON, LF)

0.002*192/5 =  0.0768 (bonus provided by Reck to each buff via Doubling)

1150*1.0768 = 1238 ("Virtual" FI)

230*1.0768  = 247.6 ("Virtual" LL)

 

0.0752*(1+1.238)*1.2476 = 0.2099 (chance to find- Reck 192 and only five buffs)

720/0.2099 = 3430 (mobs to kill for 720 drops)

 

There Ive shown all the math there is on the topic of the new quest, you can just sub out 720 with the items you need for your DQ, 5 with the number of buffs youre running, and 192 for your reckoning level (last 2 only matter if you plan to use reckoning). These calcs dont even touch the stamina cost aswell (it would be the stamina cost only if you used AM 500). You will obviously spend more moving around (you will move alot for over 3k+ mob spawns) and save some using Conserve. 

 

I can do one sample calculation for stamina, using composed pots (distilled with 150) but you should be able to sub your own levels in if you get the idea.

 

Calculations with 7.52% drop rate (with FI 1150, LL 230, Reck 192, AM 460, CON 345, LF 851)

- Drop rate doesnt change from above.

- Movement occurs when AM does NOT activate.

-AM will save you a bit more since when Reck hits it it is a guaranteed respawn

- Assumption of 3 spawns per tile (could be more or less depending on the map size.

- Still assumes the creature you farm has a drop rate of 7.52%

- You are actually better off without using LF if you run Reckoning (not true for much lower AM levels, stated this in Global Tips on Forum before)

- Assumes 2 kills a second (this is obviously not possible to keep constant over long periods of time)

 

"Virtual" Buff Levels with Reck 192 = AM 494.52, CON 370.94 (LF does not get used when hit by Reck)

Approc tiles needed to move for 3430 kills = 3430*(1-0.002*494.52)/3 = 13

Stamina cost moving = 13*(1-0.0005*851) = 7

Stamina cost killing = 3430*(1-0.0005*370.94) = 2794

 

Total Stamina Cost = 2801 Stamina

Assumed Time = 3430/2 = 29 Minutes (1715 seconds)

 

*Keep in mind this comes at the tacked on cost of those composing potions and Distil 150 which can be pricing depending on what you have available to you).

Edited by Achub, 15 October 2016 - 03:28.

[Pardoux]

All I can comment on is my experience - when I lose my kill streak, I go back to the mountain path and kill rats and get plenty of drops without FI. Maybe I've just been fortunate with the RNG ?

[Pythia]

I do the same thing you do, Pardoux, when I lose my kill streak.  Works well and the drops seem to come fast because I'm fragging to often. lol

[Egami]

@Achub (and many others)... I farm common frags all the time both for myself and buyers. This DQ is cake in that case.

 

You want to hunt normally and be able to complete the DQ with zero effort, just cause? 

 

To directly contradict your specific game style complaint, I offer my own experience which in this particular case is the complete opposite.

 

So, let's step back: 

 

Yes, tons of the DQs are designed to "possibly" coincide with what you're doing.

 

But I liked where you placed the SE in that ranking you did. This is because you have the knowledge... and not everybody does. And the great thing is that some will learn.

 

The very basic response to your complaint is: then don't hunt and do the DQ... or evaluate you're hunt to do both at the same time (which may not be possible).

 

I can do your breakdown example in about 20 minutes. 

 

But again, I can't argue with your own personal evaluation based on your own personal game play. 

 

Time and time again... if you don't like it... wait a whole 23 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds in the worst case scenario and then you'll have a different option.

 

If you were really crazy and applied strategy, you would take note of quests available and plan for how you can multi-task on things.

 

Of course, that may mean you skip many... BUT if you do, that's your decision. So far, I have had huge overlap on things I do naturally in game. Sometimes I have done things I normally wouldn't. That is my prerogative. 

 

Nobody is going to be the same on that. 

 

In short... your "ranking" is not going to coincide with everyone. It's just like the whole gripe about the allegiance token rewards which were proven to be 50 for and 50 against. 

 

And just to be the devil's advocate: You do realize that tons of people work together right. You might consider that on your "evaluation". Teamwork really goes a long way and, more than anything else, could be applied to this particular example. Ask your guildies, friends and allies to send you stuff.

 

In my personal case, I farm tons in order to make pots for my Guild and to get to composing 60. I could pop someone with this DQ items to serve the cause.

 

On the other hand, my guildies regularly send me items for breakdown in order to make them composing pots. I could easily complete this DQ without using one single stam and it would be beneficial all around. 

 

Just food for thought... don't get boxed into your game routine. Hopefully DQs might make you move outside your box, but regardless, all you have to do is pass on those you don't like or use your head to make it worth your while.

Edited by Egami, 15 October 2016 - 03:05.

[Bluetail]

Stuff that could have been written in paragraphs and not spaced out per sentence to be X4 as long.

 

LOL, I didnt give an account on personal experience- I gave it mathematically. The quest is not to obtain 720 frags, its to obtain 720 items to frag which Ive already said would take atleast a half hour. Ive explained in my post that you will have to kill over 3k mob spawns for that DQ, you cant multi task that into anything- hunting with even a X10 doubler would require 30k stamina which we cant just time to have whenever this DQ pops up. The only thing Ive said in personal experience is how much I got hunting with a X32 doubler- to throw the notion that you can multi task this one hunting out the window.

 

I do find that a tad insulting that you imply that my understanding of this game is limited, since I considered every possible variable in my calculations possible- really tell me if I left one out? And of course Im not gonna factor in the help of others because its still the same stamina cost but uses twice the number of pots and would trouble another person (why would I ever do that?). If anyone will be farming frags they would better be donated to guild composers, not someone who just needs to finish a DQ. If your a guild composer that gets help this quest is for you, if youre the 99% of other players who dont need to collect more frags then its null. I send frags to my friends for free because they compose heavily, I dont expect them to send me frags back for a DQ.

 

The argument here is not that I or anyone else want something for free. Im breaking down the stamina / time and cost for this DQ in comparison to other quests. Rewards aside (I already mentioned it doesnt check out if you buy items), the stamina and time required is much out of line compared to the other quests. The DQ should have some semblance of equality between different types of the same rarity. Equating the hefty load this quest requires (common-legendary) to what the pvp quests require (takes 1-2 minutes + 50-100 stamina), the walk X (takes 3-8 minutes + 300-900 stamina), invent X (400-1000 stamina), arena (5k-200k gold), Kill X (5 minutes + 75-300 stamina), Kill X SE (8-20 minutes + 400-1000 stamina). And then you have Breakdown (20-30 minutes 2500-3600 stamina), which quest do you think really stands out? You obviously didnt catch that my list was not personal preference and purely objective, in terms of time and stamina cost (which Ive even mentioned in that post- hopefully youve just missed that bit and arent talking circles).

 

If youre defaulting to say "dont do it if you dont like it" you are both acknowledging but avoiding addressing, the fact that this quest is an outlier from the rest. I never said the nature of the quest was something I didnt like, I never even said I didnt like the quest in general (I did finish my frag quest yesterday). You can white knight every update, but some of us are looking to altruistically help the developers see flaws in their design- which is the exact purpose of this thread. But then again its not my choice if you choose to drink the Koolaid.  

Edited by Achub, 15 October 2016 - 04:18.

[Pardoux]

LOL, I didnt give an account on personal experience- I gave it mathematically. The quest is not to obtain 720 frags, its to obtain 720 items to frag which Ive already said would take atleast a half hour. Ive explained in my post that you will have to kill over 3k mob spawns for that DQ, you cant multi task that into anything- hunting with even a X10 doubler would require 30k stamina which we cant just time to have whenever this DQ pops up. The only thing Ive said in personal experience is how much I got hunting with a X32 doubler- to throw the notion that you can multi task this one hunting out the window.

 

 

With respect, you COULD get 720 items from 720 kills ...

 

All your maths above proves is that would be the AVERAGE number of kills required, over thousands or hundreds of thousands of times trying.

 

The RNG works in mysterious ways - maybe that's why I've had a much better drop rate from rats than your maths "prove" possible ..

[Bluetail]

Well yeah you could with FI 1150, LL 230, Reck 230 the chance of that happening is less than 5.5156e-504%. But provided that the probability that any single random star (not all of them combined; its each one you see separately) in the universe supports alien life is just 0.039% (using Drakes Equation), I wouldnt get your hopes up since thats  7.0707e+501 times more likely than you getting all those items in 720 kills. Just wanted to give some context because that was actually pretty funny    

Edited by Achub, 15 October 2016 - 08:33.

[Aceshunter]

I don't know what you guys think of this one :

 

Daily Quest

[ Common ]

Travel 200 tiles

0 / 200

Gain +400 Reserve Stamina

 

If I could get this one everyday, I would be in Fallen Sword heaven

 

[Aceshunter]

  Daily Quest Collected!   You have successfully collected the reward: Gain +400 Reserve Stamina

 

[HappyDays]

But where are all the posts from people who returned to the game over these daily quests or new people saying it is really helping their game play and ability to keep playing and stay occupied. I see the same people who play anyway discuss this and say they are using it no matter what. Has anyone any stories even from within the game of people returning or lower lvl players or new players enjoying and using this. Or just old vets. 

[cucullainn]

But where are all the posts from people who returned to the game over these daily quests or new people saying it is really helping their game play and ability to keep playing and stay occupied. I see the same people who play anyway discuss this and say they are using it no matter what. Has anyone any stories even from within the game of people returning or lower lvl players or new players enjoying and using this. Or just old vets.

just old vets.

I see new or lower level players all the time in global chat complaining that they keep getting DQs that they are unable to accomplish

[hades8840]

i am still getting rubbish daily quests havent done a quest in a week

 

[ Common ]

Travel 500 tiles

0 / 500

Gain +20 Max Stamina

[Artzik]

nice update, I find it hard to believe , but it happened...I found my self waiting for next daily, exitedly 

Edited by Artzik, 15 October 2016 - 15:49.

[wil72]

just old vets.

I see new or lower level players all the time in global chat complaining that they keep getting DQs that they are unable to accomplish

 

Reason why you would lvl up mate.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[musiclovers]

Can we get daily quests that r like complete an amount of bounties and something like steel an amount of gold?

[mary4ever]

IF I am not mistaken Daily Quests were introduced to mainly "force" players to login DAILY to increase FS activity !!!!

 

BUT I fear with constantly increasing the DQ rewards it's going to end up like composing (started brilliantly BUT took a turn for the worse & ended up "crippling" other game styles)

 

we seem to forget that DQs were mainly introduced to give us "something" to do (daily) & that the rewards (except for the medal progres) were a smal bonus !!!

 

currently the ones "benefitting the most" from DQs are EOC (like me) since we are overflowing with stam & it "hardly" matters how much stam a DQ needs for "us" to complete !!!

(I am still doing ALL the DQs I get when I am online, no matter the reward or how much stam they require to complete due to me overflowing with stam either way + despite my dislike towards quests in general )

 

I suggested back then IF the rewards were to increase then to give NEW & lower players better rewards then the higher lvl ones !!!

the higher (level) you are the less DQ reward you would get

the lower (level) you are the more DQ reward you would get

(both get the same DQ BUT the rewards are different for them)

 

now not only the difference in levels is growing between EOC & NEW / LOW player BUT also in upgrades thanks to the DQs !!!

 

please keep in mind to show some love to NEW / LOW players so they can catch up (level & upgrade) faster to "us" (EOC)

 

PS: hoof I have sent you a PM in FORUM about some BUGS, sorry that I did not submit a ticket since it might end up on the "LIST" "never to see the day of light" & sorry again for not posting the BUGS here BUT want to avoid players maybe abusing them until they are fixed !!!

Edited by mary4ever, 15 October 2016 - 17:45.

[Egami]

Stuff 

 

Yeah, umm, I'm not questioning your math. I'm questioning your logic. 

 

the stamina and time required is much out of line compared to the other quests

 

I agree that it takes a lot of time and stam. I can't understand why you bring up this "doubler" thing. 

 

And yes, you entirely missed the point. If I had that quest today, I would have cleared it no problem. Stam cost would be zero and reward would be extra. 

[BigGrim]

Can we please stay on topic?

[Pythia]

I suggested in my guild chat that as we do our dqs that  we list a little info too. what catagory (magical, vermin, dragon etc) where to find them, their level, and if there are a lot of them.

 

It would help other players and if the creature is low level then everyone will be able to do the quest.

 

My last post to the dq thread is an example of what I mentioned in chat.

 

Is not needed though if you don't want to.

[gilby90813]

I think the dq are a amazing idea it takes me two weeks to reach max Stam. Anything to get me to play in between is a plus. Since all I do right now is composing and ah. So far had like 5 really nice ones. That put a big smile on my face. Sadly my previous one got me bountied twice but was worth it