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Ranger Skills, Talents, etc Rewrite [Pre-Sug Dis. Thread]


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#1 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:13

This is a rough draft thread which will be made invalid once the concept is deemed good enough to throw into the Suggestions thread. Though I have not topped the tree myself, I've researched it extensively and have also heard testimonials. I am using those to come up with some basic features.

 

Here are some ideas to start it off:

 

1) AoE is bad. While this is not always the case, the idea that a Ranger should be taking on multiple mobs at once just doesn't stick. That's what AoE spells are for. Rangers SHOULD have AoE attacks, but those attacks should never rely on the use of multiple arrows at long distances - not only does this not make sense due to the accuracy and strength requirements (which do not exist in practice in the game), it also facilitates aggroing multiple mobs (which any archer outside of Eld knows is BAD).

 

2) No one wants a bunch of Beastmaster talents taking up space on the Talent Tree. If you want to implement that, make a new Talent Tree for it. We're archers, not tamers. There's a difference.

 

3) Rangers focus too much on damage and too little on status effects. If we were using bullets it would make sense, but we're not - we're using arrows, which technically should not be piercing metal armor. Rangers should focus on disabling an opponent, granting bleed damage on chance, and firing at rapid speeds - not sending five arrows into trees just because they're guaranteed to headshot the person right next to those trees.

 

4) Bows need to be main weapons, not subs. They aren't made to be assists. They should not go into the assist slot.

 

5) Assists need to grant and depend upon two types of damage. Essence does this for offensive and defensive magic (which technically should have separate DPS because I swear that's just ***** ********* ********** ***...), so throwing weapons should do this with Melee and Range. This will allow throwing weapons to actually have a place on the Ranged tree.

 

 

 

With the implementation of the following, Ranged DPS power is HALVED OVERALL PERMANENTLY. Ranged will now be a strategic class, not an instant-hit class. In return, these skills and talents will focus on side effects, mostly debuffs, that balance out the power loss when in the hands of a capable Ranger.

 

- For the sake of making things easier to understand, all Skills are the Active Abilities. They may or may not require activation from the tree.

 

 

Skills

 

Blinding Tip

The light of the sun/moon reflects off of the arrow (1s point upward animation), all enemies in a very large radius are blinded (does not generate hostility), and the enemy selected is pierced by a burning arrow (single-target). Only works when in an area open to the sky. Replaces Blazing Arrow. Napalm covers this, same effect.

 

Crystal Blast

Without Concussion, stun time is now 3s and the enemy is slowed by 50% instead of 25%.

 

Haemorrhage

50% chance of activating Haemorrhaging. Haemorrhaging now makes enemies bleed for 30% every 1s and receive 25% more damage from Ranged attacks.

 

Envenom

Now deals 180% Ranged DPS instead of 80%. Makes target unable to attack and use potions for the duration but DOES NOT affect movement.

 

Torrent

Now increase crit damage instead of crit chance, same amount.

 

Storm

9 yard radius. 75% DPS every 1s for 5s. 50% chance to hit per enemy (once enemy is tagged, it cannot be untagged).

 

Tornado

Requires Storm to activate. 6 yard radius. 500% damage. 2s animation. (When you see a Ranger activate Storm, just get out of the way. This is mainly for PvE, as the mobs won't be smart enough to move.)

 

Detonate

Increased to 4 yards. 25% of stunning all enemies for 3s. Instead of activating around oneself automatically, you can now move a circle to where you want Detonate to hit. If you are in range of the circle (4 yards), you jump back 3 yards instantaneously.

 

Celestial Recall & Moonsoon

Deleted.

 

Call of the Wild

Deleted.

 

Blood Fang

Unchanged.

 

Fleetfoot

10% speed increase instead of 5%. Removes any slowing effects. Self-only. Lasts 2 minutes. Half energy cost.

 

Chekhov's Gun [The irony of this skill's name is astounding.] 

Single-target. Can attack any enemy regardless of distance. Target must be selected the entire time. Animation lasts 10s. Relies on one's critical chance. Deals 5,000% damage plus guaranteed crit added to total damage amount (it's just one hit afterall). Affected by all crit damage talents and adds 200% crit damage. Hour-long cooldown. If interrupted, you are stunned for 15s and cooldown still activates. If successful, you die. Replaces Spectral Barrage. Cannot be selected if Sylph's Hands has been selected.

 

Creeping Vines

Deleted.

 

Talents

 

Cruel Barb & Quick Draw

The former now increases crit damage instead of chance, same amount; the latter's effect is doubled.

 

Concussion

Now has three points instead of two (with last point, 1.5s and 30% DPS).

 

Exit Wound & Barbed Tip

The former is unchanged; the latter increases by 2s/4s instead of 4s/8s.

 

Predatory

Deleted.

 

Rapid Fire

Unchanged.

 

Blot Out The Sun & Gale Force

Replaced. See Sylph's Hands.

 

Sylph's Hands

Increases damage of Storm by 10/20/30% and increases chance to hit per enemy by 5/15/25%. Tornado has a 20% chance of dealing double damage and saps 10% of all enemies' remaining energy, replenishing one's own energy. Replaces Spectral Barrage. Cannot be selected if Chekhov's Gun has been selected. Passive.

 

Wild Fire, Explosive, & Shocked

First stays the same, other two are deleted.

 

Recall

Deleted.

 

At One With Nature, Strength Of The Wild, & Wild Bond

Deleted.

 

Blood Link & Blood Trail

Former now grants 5/10/15% life steal; latter is unchanged.

 

Steady Aim & Thrill of the Hunt

Both now grant crit damage increases instead. Former has no extra change; latter's effect is changed to 5/10%.

 

Stealth Shots

10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80/90/100% instead. (You really shouldn't use this if you're focusing on AoEs since Tornado needs you to aggro the mobs hit by Storm. This also doesn't work in PvP, obviously.)

 

Wild Instincts

This makes no sense and is useless. Deleted.

 

Dexterous

Ranged haste and general ranged attack speed. 5/10/15/20% instead.

 

Volley

Old version deleted. Now, every third auto ranged attack regenerates 5% mana. (This is mainly for when you've run out.)

 

Marksman

Unchanged.

 

Steady Aim

10/20/30%. Crit damage instead of accuracy.

 

Eagle Eye

25/50/75%. One's own shots only. Hidden cooldown of 2 minutes. Crit on auto attack required to activate. Cannot use skills for duration.

 

Achilles' Heel

Every auto attack decreases enemy speed by 5% per hit, can stack up to 5 times. Refreshes every 5 seconds.

 

 

 

 

Okay, so let me explain: If this sounds like it's anti-melee, it's meant to be. In my other thread, I'm going to try to implement the Nightwalker talent which is meant to be anti-magic. It's for melee users primarily. This means I'm trying to create a Reverse Combat Triangle where Ranged > Melee > Magic > Ranged.

 

Every arrow counts. This is the new mentality for Rangers. If Rangers cannot aim in time, they die. If they cannot time their skills right, they die. If they stand in the same place, they die. If they move in the wrong direction, they die. This is the case in both PvP and PvE areas where most mobs are on aggro as a default. Rangers have to know the field - they have to know where they enemies are, where they will be, and how using guerrilla tactics can work to defeat them.

 

 

 

I remade this build being a Ranger myself. The current build is just way too OP. This is made in the interest of class balance...for every class. I know where Rangers are in the midst of the imbalance; while this will not solve all balance issues, it will work towards those issues on the Ranger side.

 

 

 

Certain skills and talents that may be implemented are the Throwing Weapon based ones. I'm not a Throwing Weapon kind of girl, so I won't mess with those. Know that they should be at the beginning of the tree and not too OP, as they are support weapons.

 

The skills and talents listed are not in order. Please use your comprehension skills to see where they are meant to be placed.

 

 

 

Thank you for participating in the Pre-Suggestion Discussion Thread for the Ranger Skills, Talents, etc Rewrite. :)


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#2 scorp

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:26

R.I.P warriors :( Also rangers arent op , prophages on other hand ....


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#3 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:38

R.I.P warriors :( Also rangers arent op , prophages on other hand ....

 

I have a solution for each:

 

1) Nightwalker now takes all "dark" abilities, such as Miasma and Dark Prayer. This means it's a survival class with the ability to teleport, taking away the teleportation abilities in other classes. Additionally, one of the beginning talents for it gives melee users a free 20 talent points to use in Nightwalker only (atleast 20 points placed in Templar, Warrior, and/or Assassin required), which is just enough to access enough teleportation for melee users to catch up with mages and force rangers to aim.

 

2) Healing and Damage spells now have separate DPS, with Healing DPS now relying exclusively on Focus.


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#4 Unlucker

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:12

Are you serious with all this ? Why buffing rangers so much ? Do you even realize how broken it would be ? I really don't understand your logic here and also you are only lvl 16, of course your AOE sucks lol.

 

Rangers have insane AOE at lvl 40+ due to the storm which is one of the most OP spells in the game, another aoe are blazing arrow, detonate, monsoon, tornado. You can spam those every few seconds. Try playing prophet who has only erupt, blizzard and fulmination with 2 minute cooldown. Not even mentioning assassins. But I am not saying they should improve prophet's damage or AOE. PVE aspect of this game is pretty much balanced - every class has its pros and cons.

PVP is broken though.



#5 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:27

Did you even read my post?

 

I didn't say the AoE sucks - I said it's too OP. I deleted blazing arrow and monsoon for a reason. And I didn't buff them - I debuffed them. I cut their damage in half. The only way to get that damage back up is by using skills with very long cooldowns. Other than that they can increase their crit damage which depends on crit acc - and of course that needs to be fixed, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that arrows are meant to attack vital points rather than one-hit KOing someone from an arrow to the knee like it is now.

 

Prophets aren't supposed to deal damage, they're supposed to support other players. They shouldn't have high offensive power in the first place, and they only do because they're leeching off of the Sorcery attribute, even though their talents ask them to focus on...well, Focus. Prophets are broken in general because those "few spells" they have for damage can kill anything in one hit due to Sorcery specialization.

 

 

Every single piece of this build was made for a reason. Tornado was reconfigured to act as a shield against melee, which does not work in PvE if you add points to decrease threat. By decreasing threat 100%, you can single-target mobs without dying. This build allows perfect setup for PvP or for PvE without letting Rangers do whatever they want. They aren't selecting all of these talents - only some.

 

 

You need to re-read the entire OP.


Edited by Rez, 25 November 2014 - 09:36.

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#6 Unlucker

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:48

Did you even read my post?

 

I didn't say the AoE sucks - I said it's too OP. I deleted blazing arrow and monsoon for a reason. And I didn't buff them - I debuffed them. I cut their damage in half. The only way to get that damage back up is by using skills with very long cooldowns. Other than that they can increase their crit damage which depends on crit acc - and of course that needs to be fixed, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that arrows are meant to attack vital points rather than one-hit KOing someone from an arrow to the knee like it is now.

 

Prophets aren't supposed to deal damage, they're supposed to support other players. They shouldn't have high offensive power in the first place, and they only do because they're leeching off of the Sorcery attribute, even though their talents ask them to focus on...well, Focus. Prophets are broken in general because those "few spells" they have for damage can kill anything in one hit due to Sorcery specialization.

 

 

Every single piece of this build was made for a reason. Tornado was reconfigured to act as a shield against melee, which does not work in PvE if you add points to decrease threat. By decreasing threat 100%, you can single-target mobs without dying. This build allows perfect setup for PvP or for PvE without letting Rangers do whatever they want. They aren't selecting all of these talents - only some.

 

 

You need to re-read the entire OP.

I was reacting to your first point:

1) AoE is bad.

And you buffed Tornado a lot

 

i have 1700+ dps on prophet and still deal 2-3 times less damage than my ranger with 1300 dps fully buffed. You need to play more and write less and then you can compare classes once you are at lvl 45 with each class.

 

Prophets have only bigger damage on paper but least from other classes, they have worst armor - defenses, they couldn't use 1h weapons and shields before hybrids came out. They have no long range stuns, only close range Radiance. Only advantage they have is healing and yet I see so much whine about this, its sickening me.

 

 My point is - it's good as it is, don't change something that is not broken. Rangers need AOE so they get more dungeon runs. Changing them to DoT would mean they would be as useless as assassins.

Only thing that should be changed is assassin, to be more effective in PVE.



#7 Mongo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:07

 

 

Envenom

Now deals 180% Ranged DPS instead of 80%. Makes target unable to attack and use potions for the duration but DOES NOT affect movement.

 

 

April fools day.... was.... in .... April.  :P


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#8 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:18

 

I was reacting to your first point:

1) AoE is bad.

And you buffed Tornado a lot

 

i have 1700+ dps on prophet and still deal 2-3 times less damage than my ranger with 1300 dps fully buffed. You need to play more and write less and then you can compare classes once you are at lvl 45 with each class.

 

AoE is a bad focus for any archer archetype. AoEs ALWAYS fit in with mages, not archers. Archers are about criting while keeping a distance, not blowing the entire area up. I didn't say that AoE sucked for Ranger, I said that it should not be Ranger's focus.

 

Yes, I buffed Tornado, but it is now a completely situational skill. You have to use Storm in order to activate it, which will tip off any player close to you that they should move out of the way. And since it now has a 2s animation, they CAN get out of the way. The only enemies that can't are stupid threat-detecting mobs that Tornado's power increase is meant to destroy. The only players that will get hit by it are noobs.

 

 

I never said Prophet was the most OP class. I admit that Ranger is currently the most OP class. What I said was that Prophets can use many offensive spells to their highest potential. If you aren't using elemental spells, you're not playing Prophet right. Healing is always secondary - you need to be throwing fireballs with all of that Sorc stat.

 

I halved ALL DPS given by the Ranged stat. Ranger would be even to your Prophet with my changes.

 

 

Prophets have only bigger damage on paper but least from other classes, they have worst armor - defenses, they couldn't use 1h weapons and shields before hybrids came out. They have no long range stuns, only close range Radiance. Only advantage they have is healing and yet I see so much whine about this, its sickening me.

 

 My point is - it's good as it is, don't change something that is not broken. Rangers need AOE so they get more dungeon runs. Changing them to DoT would mean they would be as useless as assassins.

Only thing that should be changed is assassin, to be more effective in PVE.

 

 

No, on paper Warriors have the best damage. We see how well that worked out. Their only advantage is not healing - they can also burn everything to ashes by using the same 300 Sorc points that gives them ultimate healing ability. The ONLY difference between Mage and Pro is that one has a little bit of a buff in offense, the other has a little bit of a buff in healing. That's it. They still can use the same spells with the same DPS.

 

Yes, IT IS BROKEN. Have you not even read the "Warriors in PvP" thread? Every single class is broken!

 

 

April fools day.... was.... in .... April.   :P

 

 

180% / 2 = 90%. The duration is 3s. 3 seconds of 90% ranged DPS will not kill you if you pot at the last second or run behind a wall to heal (yes, I know there's an issue with that, has nothing to do with talents).


Edited by Rez, 25 November 2014 - 11:20.

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#9 ernzor

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:18

Only thing that should be changed is assassin, to be more effective in PVE.

Can say I get no shortage of invites for dungeon runs as a pve sin. Can be VERY effective if played well.

Or maybe its just my body...

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When lvl 50 is here


#10 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:23

Can say I get no shortage of invites for dungeon runs as a pve sin. Can be VERY effective if played well.

Or maybe its just my body...

 

Just your sexy, sexy body, ernzor :P

 

But yeah, Sins aren't really a problem. Though I honestly think they should have more shanking abilities than just trying to rely on comboing through their bleeds. Assassins, in concept, aren't about prologuing a battle waiting for their enemy to bleed to death - they're about killing someone in an instant.


Edited by Rez, 25 November 2014 - 11:23.

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#11 Unlucker

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:45

I prefer warriors and rangers over sins to be honest, if i can choose.

 

OK you don't know what you are talking about seriously. I didn't say prophets have best dps, I only said my prophet has more dps than ranger, but still suck in terms of damage.

BECAUSE:

YOu won't find anything in prophet tree that buffs specific spells like other classes have. Prophets deal only base damage with spells. Do you get it ?



#12 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:55

By DPS I mean Damage Per Second. I'm not talking about the stat you find in the character window. I'm talking about how much damage you deal and how fast you deal it in actual combat. In a PvP situation, cooldowns don't matter - what matters is how fast you can AoE the entire field to ashes. In that sense, yes, Rangers have more. Stop using numbers - use experiences. I've heard plenty of cases where Prophets destroy everyone. You just suck at it. Wait till everyone else is dead and then blast the Ranger from behind if you're really that scared of them.

 

No, they don't. If a Prophet has all 300 of their attribute points placed in Sorcery, they will deal maximum spell damage. Always. Don't be afraid of using a skill that doesn't have "Prophet" attached to it and you'll stop dying.


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#13 Unlucker

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:07

Ok lol, level 16 player teaching player from closed beta how to play this game :) This is too funny. You are talking about PVP now, but im talking about PVE. And I am saying rangers/warriors/mages are more useful in dungeons than prophets/prophages in terms of damage and that is true. You don't have to be a fking rocket scientist to do the math.

As I said you should play the game more and experience it yourself. Can't listen to the rumors and whining players saying some classes are more OP. I Have lvl 45 prophage and a lvl 45 ranger and lvl 34 mage so i can compare them all.

 

And I'm not scared of anyone, I might suck at pvp, but I'm not scared of bullies like Dasan, Ben or Serafic, they kill me more often, than I do, but who cares.

 

My kill/death ratio in pvp is 288 / 105, just saying that's not bad for PVE player who doesn't kill newbies.



#14 ZeusIV

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:55

points 1, 2 and 3

rubbish

 

http://en.wikipedia....le_of_Agincourt

The Battle of Agincourt was a major English victory in the Hundred Years' War.[a] The battle occurred on Friday, 25 October 1415 (Saint Crispin's Day), near modern-day Azincourt, in northern France.[5][b]Henry V's victory at Agincourt, against a numerically superior French army, crippled France and started a new period in the war

 

The battle is notable for the use of the English longbow, which Henry used in very large numbers, with English and Welsh archers forming most of his army.

 

Outnumbered English longbow against French knights in armour and the longbow wins

 

points 4 and 5

the bow is the main weapon. just because the ranged slot is below the melee slot doesn't make it an assist weapon

from a playing pov it would be better in the top slot, have 2 gem slots and have a 1 slot knife in the bottom slot but i can see why it is done the way it is

 

the rest of your preamble is just (to put it politely) bollox based on a misunderstanding of what you think real life should be and what you think the game should be

 

come back when you have played ranger to level 45



#15 AwiesGoesRawr

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 14:08

Imo there is 2 kind of rangers:

 

1 who focuses on AoE:

Very useful in dungeons, even tho it takes a lot of practice to suit them all so you wont have extra cooldown to fill, this will also require a lot of mana, but dungeons are good source of money so that wont matter.

 

 

1 who focuses on single target abilities:

torrent (15% critical chance for 15seconds) +spectral barrage (95% dps every 0.5 - that makes 190% dps in second)= you get 15% extra critical, which is added on critical chanche, which is already very high, will make you next 10 seconds like terminator. and it doesnt mattter how much your target heals (talking about PvP), because imagine having 1k dps. 1.9k damage per second, excluding criticals. make that last 10 seconds. 19K damage + criticals! You cant even heal that much because you will get intoxicated.  Ofc it has 2min cooldown, but it wont even feel long, when you have PvP kill with 100tokens in your pocket.

 

along with other useful abilities, ranger is ideal for both dungeon dps and PvP/solo stuff - but you cant be both same time.


Edited by AwiesGoesRawr, 25 November 2014 - 14:10.

Eldevin Steam-generation.

 

 

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#16 Blissy

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 21:19

I like my ranger as is, I don't know if there are improvements to be made but don't no nerfs thanks :huh: .

 

can't speak to pvp stuff, i'm a pve player ...


Edited by BlissMiss, 25 November 2014 - 21:20.

Slow but steady wins the race or something like that.

I'm just taking it slow, not sure about the steady.

*Pre-Steam release Player*

*Joined Spring of 2014 *

 

 

 


#17 Datacook

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 21:30

1: You're not an Archer, you're a Ranger. You may not be interested in the animal companion but it's still part of the class archetype, in fact it's one of the defining features of the class. If it's not interesting because it's useless or underpowered, then it needs improving, if it's not interesting because you're not interested then it's just not the class for you. 

 

2: Arrows go through armor comfortably. Not every shot of course, but that's what the HP bar represents. There's a reason why Longbowmen were a BFD in English history and the Catholic church tried to ban the crossbow.

 

3: There's no rule that says archers can't be AOE focused. Guild Wars, Maplestory, Flyff all do it off the top of my head, and most MMOs have them pick up at least some AoE.

 

4: No rule that says mages must be AOE.

 

Provided you tank can hold aggro, and your class balance is good, AOE is fantastic for taking out trash packs and adds. Used right it makes for faster, safer, cheaper runs.

 

You seem to want an entirely different class implemented in substitution for the ranger. 



#18 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 21:37

The point, Zeus, is that he did that by firing at each enemy individually, not by putting 10 arrows on a string and letting them fly. A single-target archer could very well take down 100 enemies coming at them. What I was talking about was how firing mutliple arrows AT ONCE is terribly inaccurate in practice and thus Rangers should not focus on AoEs.

 

As for the pet, no, that isn't a part of the Ranger archetype. It's a part of the Druid archetype.

 

 

I would like to get responses from people from melee users, not mage/rangers that already dominate both PvP and PvE.


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#19 ZeusIV

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 21:43

well a good archer was so fast at firing arrows he would have several in the air before the first landed (exactly as storm works now)

longbows have a much faster fire rate than even a drum fed crossbow, which is why i complain so much about not being able to kite with a longbow



#20 Rez

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 22:25

longbows have a much faster fire rate

 

not being able to kite with a longbow

 

You do realize those two correlate, right?


rsz_sniper_anime_girl_dual_screen_3_t2.j

| Rezilia (16) Ranger | Bunnycakes (5) Paladin |

| Crystal Cutting - 4 | Farming - 11 | Fishing - 9 | Foraging - 10 | Forestry - 8 | Prospecting - 6 | Skinning - 16 |

| Alchemy - 12 | Armorsmithing - 2 | Cooking - 16 | Jewelry - 1 | Leatherworking - 9 | Tailoring - 6 | Weaponsmithing - 2 |

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