84 replies to this topic

[Mister Doom]

The answer also involves ensuring that the downsides don't dominate over the benefits---for every player the game wishes to keep involved.

 

The benefits of being in a guild are absolutely enormous. Being susceptible to GvG (if you want access to these benefits) is not 'dominating' over the benefits, it is in fact the exact opposite.

 

However I do see your point with regards to brand new guilds, trying to establish themselves.

A simpler way to avoid them being demolished before they know what is going on, is to dramatically raise the guild level guilds have to reach to become eligible for GvG.

[Belaric]

I agree that raising the guild level guilds have to reach to become eligible for GvG will spare new guilds from getting hit, but it depends if that becomes counterproductive in terms of losing potential GvG targets. I'll leave that to the GvG afficionados to debate. 

 

I think a large part of the problem with fledgeling guilds having a hard time, starting, flaming out and dying would be solved by increasing the minimum level the founder has to be before he is allowed to start a guild

 

Too many young guilds are doomed to fail because a new player enthusiastically starts a guild before he or she fully appreciates the game, and lacks the personal experience and in game resources to made a good go of keeping a guild alive.

 

Starting a guild, and then discovering it is much harder than it looks is tough - it could then be that gvg happening is the straw that breaks the new guild's back as it were, and causes the members (and founders) to give up the ghost. Or not, I'm sure many new guilds fold because it is just hard to get and keep enough players, especially new players, who nowadays can get into well established guilds without much difficulty.

 

But I do think that you are allowed to be a guild founder at too low a level, and this can lead to avoidable failures, and loses not only that new guild, but possibly the founding player who may quit the game in frustration after sinking resources into a guild that needs a lot of luck and persistance to fly. 

[rowbeth]

The benefits of being in a guild are absolutely enormous. Being susceptible to GvG (if you want access to these benefits) is not 'dominating' over the benefits, it is in fact the exact opposite.

 

My point was intended to be general, and I hadn't intended to get involved in the specifics of GVG. However your comment has challenged my resolve.

 

It is all too easy to forget that everyone values things differently, and what is a negligible annoyance to one person is a major disruption to another, and a major joy to yet another. So it is very risky to be all encompassing about where the balance between benefit and downside lies. (And that point is still general)

 

I also think (to become GVG specific) that the debate on more threads than this one has not really understood what some GVG targets go through. If you are in a small guild, with diverse level ranges, then it is quite possible that you get to take all 100 hits as the only target within range of the attacking guild. While the repair cost for that can be not inconsequential (despite what many have suggested), cost probably isn't the major downside. There are other consequences. For example, it is highly likely that those 100 hits will all involve leach, and might come any time over the 24 hours. So now one has a day when one is reluctant to buy buffs (or use GE pots) to hunt with (be that levelling, or titans, or ...). And if that is not just the occassional day, but starts happening frequently, one can end up with many FS activities (specifically anything that relies on being buffed in this example) being significantly disrupted by frequent GVG attacks.

 

I hasten to add that I am not arguing for any major nerfing of GVG. But I am trying to encourage a bit more understanding for those who are saying they find GVG destroys their game enjoyment---and perhaps also for a willingness to consider whether the more excessive targetting of some guilds might warrant a bit more restraint.

[wil72]

GvG needs fixed? Yes it does, its been "nurfed" way to much in my opinion. Bring back the single player attack and get rid of the stupid cap.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[wil72]

And is there a list of constantly attacked Guilds with regard to GvG? Some folk seem to be privy to information that would appear to be rather hard to obtain.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

[Mister Doom]

Positives to being in a guild.

 

• Free Gear (via guild tagged gear, which means you'll likely never need to own anything yourself)
• Free Buffs (another normally expensive outlay when doing FS activities)
• Free Advice (doesn't really require explanation)
• Stat increasing structures (Not free but they're cheap for large guilds and are unavailable to a guildless player and very expensive to maintain for a super small guild)
• Stat/Gain increasing Relics + The team spirit of defending them alongside your guild mates.
• Various guild specific benefits. Cheap epics, virtual pvp immunity, titan hunting expertise etc etc
• Potential access to guild composing potions. (the only way to actually trade composing potions)

 

Negatives to being in a guild.

• Can be attacked in guild versus guild activity

Edited by Mister Doom, 21 April 2016 - 23:44.

[yotwehc]

<p>

Positives to being in a guild.

• Free Gear (via guild tagged gear, which means you'll likely never need to own anything yourself)
• Free Buffs (another normally expensive outlay when doing FS activities)
• Free Advice (doesn't really require explanation)
• Stat increasing structures (Not free but they're cheap for large guilds and are unavailable to a guildless player and very expensive to maintain for a super small guild)
• Various guild specific benefits. Cheap epics, virtual pvp immunity, titan hunting expertise etc etc
• Potential access to guild composing potions. (the only way to actually trade composing potions)

Negatives to being in a guild.

• Can be attacked in guild versus guild activity

Negatives:
Guild tax
Providing free buffs
Providing free composed pots (not an issue for our particular guild as I have to practically force then on mates)

[Mister Doom]

Guild tax, sure I can see how that could be seen as a negative.

I didn't add it because it also acts as a way of a player getting those cheap stat/gain enhancing structures with gold that is literally unavailable for pvp players to steal

 

If buffing your guildmates is a negative, then you're doing it wrong.

Providing free composed pots is optional. If you consider that a negative, don't do it.

 

(It's kind of sad you see these things as negatives though to be fair. Are you sure you want to be in a guild? O.o)

[yotwehc]

Guild tax, sure I can see how that could be seen as a negative.
I didn't add it because it also acts as a way of a player getting those cheap stat/gain enhancing structures with gold that is literally unavailable for pvp players to steal

If buffing your guildmates is a negative, then you're doing it wrong.
Providing free composed pots is optional. If you consider that a negative, don't do it.

(It's kind of sad you see these things as negatives though to be fair. Are you sure you want to be in a guild? O.o)

You know the answer to that. I've made no secret that I am a selfish, tightwad, noob, village idiot, etc.

But the point you make for some of the positives has an equal and opposite "negative". Looking at it from an uninterested neutral stance, how is using a high level players buff for an 800 Stam hunt efficient? Everything is not black and white. You say "free" but is it really?

Edited by yotwehc, 22 April 2016 - 00:17.

[Mister Doom]

Buffing your guildmates isn't 'mandatory', it is of course commonly accepted practice.

Not everyone with small amounts of stam will expect super buffs, not everyone with those buffs will want to cast them and not everyone is solely focused on being efficient.

 

That being said, the guild tax ensures that the guild itself gets back a certain amount, which then goes back into paying for upkeeps...

 

An optional positive isn't equal to an optional negative. Since noone in their right mind is going to accept a negative if they don't have to, they must be associated with a positive.

[yotwehc]

Buffing your guildmates isn't 'mandatory', it is of course commonly accepted practice.
Not everyone with small amounts of stam will expect super buffs, not everyone with those buffs will want to cast them and not everyone is solely focused on being efficient.

That being said, the guild tax ensures that the guild itself gets back a certain amount, which then goes back into paying for upkeeps...

An optional positive isn't equal to an optional negative. Since noone in their right mind is going to accept a negative if they don't have to, they must be associated with a positive.

O_o
So you agree it's a wash? I'm sorta confused (not hard to do)

Some of my guildmates are uber generous and lays it on anyone that asks and rarely to never ask for any themselves. These players aren't reaping the benefit of free buffs you mention and they also slow their own progress down. Fantastic attitude and a great guildmate. But are they gaining the free buff benefit you speak of? No. Sure, it's by choice. In gvg, does the same guildmate have a choice? Nope.

Then you have the selfish bozos like me. Not sure why I'm allowed to stay. Worst donator as well ;p

[Mister Doom]

You can't use outliers to prove a point however.

 

The large majority of players get much more OUT of guilds then they put IN.

 

Hell guilds are the primary reason we have an economy problem within FS.

Guilds mean that players generally don't need to provide anything for themselves.

Not having to pay for personal gear, personal buffs and not having to pay to upgrade that gear has created a surplus of personal wealth which inflates the MP. Not to mention the affect it's had on the value of most of the items in the game.

 

 

I'm not sure I really understand how you can argue against the vast benefits guilds provide however. I've spent a lot of time in global chat. When newbies show up and ask for advice, I've seen you personally reply many times. You ALWAYS advise players to get in a guild for free gear and buffs. You literally TELL everyone what I've been saying here... Seems like your just arguing for the sake of it right now.

Edited by Mister Doom, 22 April 2016 - 00:45.

[yotwehc]

You can't use outliers to prove a point however.

The large majority of players get much more OUT of guilds then they put IN.

Hell guilds are the primary reason we have an economy problem within FS.
Guilds mean that players generally don't need to provide anything for themselves.
Not having to pay for personal gear, personal buffs and not having to pay to upgrade that gear has created a surplus of personal wealth which inflates the MP. Not to mention the affect it's had on the value of most of the items in the game.


I'm not sure I really understand how you can argue against the vast benefits guilds provide however. I've spent a lot of time in global chat. When newbies show up and ask for advice, I've seen you personally reply many times. You ALWAYS advise players to get in a guild for free gear and buffs. You literally TELL everyone what I've been saying here... Seems like your just arguing for the sake of it right now.

Darn forum stalkers. Ok you got me. But still there is those negatives. It's not all (or almost all benefit as you put it).
For newer players, it's a n brainier. For bigger players, not so much.

[yodamus]

 

Positives to being in a guild.

 

• Free Gear (via guild tagged gear, which means you'll likely never need to own anything yourself)
• Free Buffs (another normally expensive outlay when doing FS activities)
• Free Advice (doesn't really require explanation)
• Stat increasing structures (Not free but they're cheap for large guilds and are unavailable to a guildless player and very expensive to maintain for a super small guild)
• Stat/Gain increasing Relics + The team spirit of defending them alongside your guild mates.
• Various guild specific benefits. Cheap epics, virtual pvp immunity, titan hunting expertise etc etc
• Potential access to guild composing potions. (the only way to actually trade composing potions)

 

Negatives to being in a guild.

• Can be attacked in guild versus guild activity

 

big negative- and is why i am pretty much in my own guild - being told what to do with your stamina and how you should play the game...being told i have to use my stam to do a titan hunt or smash someone on the bb to protect a guildmate..big huge negative..it is not all rosy being in a guild..

[Filletminion]

big negative- and is why i am pretty much in my own guild - being told what to do with your stamina and how you should play the game...being told i have to use my stam to do a titan hunt or smash someone on the bb to protect a guildmate..big huge negative..it is not all rosy being in a guild..

Actually being in a guild and playing a game  is realising it is not all about you. That said if you have to be told how to use stamina to help your guild then I wouldn't want you as a member.The last 2 weeks for me Have seen 50 k stam used defending Relics and GVG and PVP clearing friends.

[SirAdmiral]

can we get gvg fixed to not count inactive players im getting tired of getting hit 100 times im pretty sure im not the only player getting ganged up on what am i expected to do kick players lose the bp space and exp i dont even want to log on aand see how much the repair is

So you want to have the cake AND eat it huh?

[Pythia]

That comment is not helpful, and as it stands that's another dead guild with sleeping members. 

 

There are a lot of those guilds now. 

 

Reasons are as varied as the people who play this game, but GvG is one of the reasons.

Edited by Pythia, 26 April 2016 - 00:30.

[onray24]

 i want options  and i dont think im the only player dealing with this

[kitobas]

players here right and saying guild giving many advantages

 

if you having problem with gvg because you not wanting getting attacking then easy bro, leave guild and play solo then you not getting many advantages from guild and you not can getting attacking in gvg

 

but if you wanting staying in guild and getting many advantages but not getting attacking in gvg then can doing it, guild needing only having 4 player then you not can getting attacking in gvg, no gvg problem for you people

[wil72]

That comment is not helpful, and as it stands that's another dead guild with sleeping members. 

 

There are a lot of those guilds now. 

 

Reasons are as varied as the people who play this game, but GvG is one of the reasons.

 

There are also many Guilds, not all were multi filled, that are dead due to the "dumbing down" of GvG. So swings and roundabouts.

 

Cheers.

 

wil72

Edited by wil72, 26 April 2016 - 18:13.