325 replies to this topic

[Rocknoor]

You simply can't protect yourself, can you? You are exactly who PvP Protection has been introduced to protect. I feel sorry for you. So let's pretend your idea became reality. I would simply have to hit more times hurting your xp even more. Gold stealing percentages are abysmal to begin with. Hope of Master Thief kicking is the only bright spot. If you go offline with 5m, I'm going to hit you hourly until I get at least 4m of it, maybe in your case 4.75m

Again with the insults so I'll respond in kind. You have just proved my point about why the level should not be increased, it's not about PvP with you it's about punishment.  I said before that you are the posterchild for everything wrong with PvP and you continually prove it over and over. The majority of PvP'ers that I've met in the game are honorable and play by a code that they follow, your style of play however is why non-PvP'ers are adamantly opposed to any increase in broadening the range of  levels that can be attacked.  In this case you are your own worst enemy not me. As far as defending myself, you're right I can't because your kind strike when I'm off line, no buffs  and in stam gear...there is no viable defense for me  in that situation.

Edited by Rocknoor, 20 February 2015 - 13:31.

[WandKing]

I voted no because the increased range is too high. I may have gone the other way if the range was increased  ±5 maybe even ±8. That might give me 1 or 2 extra targets to farm Prestige from Otherwise, I'll get the points from BB.  

[Teuchter]

Many of those who want the ranges extended is in the group of players that like to bully other players and attack them only to provoke and harass in a legal way. I believe nothing good will come out of this and voted no like the majority and hope this will be left unchanged.

  Like Nagoyaka I do not believe any good will come from this ,  Also the  vote is an overwhelming  No !! and should be listened to . !!  

Wandking proposes a smaller increase maybe +/- 5 ,  maybe 8 , even 10 would be acceptable , ,but 100 is way too High , !!

[perliak]

I have voted no, 100 levels is way too much, it could happen that you had to get almost 200 levels to be out of reach from a player that is attacking you often. According to my last hunt numbers it would cost me 280K stam to do that, as i've said it is way too much.

[yotekiller]

Many of those who want the ranges extended is in the group of players that like to bully other players and attack them only to provoke and harass in a legal way. I believe nothing good will come out of this and voted no like the majority and hope this will be left unchanged.

I voted in favor of increasing the ranges so now I'm a bully?  If you have proof that I have ever bullied you in any way you should contact support for their help in dealing with me.  Otherwise, your unfounded,public accusations make you the bully by painting me as something I am not in an effort to intimidate me and scare others.  Level ranges for pvp need to be increased badly.  I currently have 5 players in range thet are active.  5, and I'm not anywhere close to EOC.

[Calista]

They never have proof, Yote.  Just a lot of unfounded accusations based on some bad experience their friend had 4 years ago or whatever. Ask them for details, and they can't give any.

 

I voted yes for the increase as well, and gave perfectly good reasons as to why I did so that have nothing at all to do with bullying. I find the accusation insulting and unfounded and just more hype to try and force things their way. I'm not a gold hitter usually, but I'm in the same boat as Yote with only a handful of active people in my range. I think everyone is open to working out how much of an increase should be put into place, but there is little question as to the need for it. 

[Yuuzhan]

I have voted no as well.  There are way too many people in my range as it is.

 

The following is my opinion - I have not slogged through the 14 pages of PvP flame to see what has been said already, but I am entitled to state my opinion without having to research if someone else stated it first.  I just want my opinion on the record.  I will not be coming back to see if there are any replies, although I am sure some guild members will let me know if something juicy comes up.  

 

----------------

 

I am well over level 2,000 and have about 40 people within my current PVP range.

 

As someone who used to invent on a regular basis (I am sure many of you remember my cheap Berserk / Acceleration / Lib potions).  I was counting for a while, and sold to over 2,000 different people if I recall correctly.  Then I got into the EOC crowd and was PvPed like crazy.  Whenever you have more then 1m gold on hand you got 100 stammed.  no one cares about loosing 5 levels when they attack for gold

 

So I had to quit making potions, as my slim "High volume, low margin" method was getting PvPed away.  I would set 100 potions up for the night and go to sleep, in the morning I would have been 100 stammed hourly until all my gold was gone.  Then you get on the PvPers watch list and you cant do anything with gold anymore.  After all I invested into Component slots and BP slots - I was forced out of what I enjoyed about the game because some PvPers wanted a bit of extra gold.  It is part of the game, I did not complain much.  It sucked, but what can you do?

 

Then HCS introduce PvP protection.  Those who want to avoid PvP can do so!  Excellent.  I will pay my tax to HCS and get my PvP Protection.  Then I can play the game that I want!

 

Oh wait, like all EoCers (and champions of greasy wheel gets oil via the forum) they only wanted to attack for Gold.  So PvP Protection was just XP Protection.  And like everyone in my PvP range, no one cared about XP anyways.  That tunred out to be a useless upgrade.  Good to buy if you are getting harassed hourly by a bully pvp guild, but otherwise little use.

 

So again, forced out of doing the part of the game that I enjoyed so PvPers could steal gold at will.

 

Now you want to extend the range that they can mug attack people?  I think not.

 

Now, how many of these champions would say Yes to extend the range you can PvP someone to 100, but you can only steal gold +/-10?

 

So, I am asking the PvPers to be honest with themselves: Do you really want to PvP, or are you really after the gold?

 

-----------------------

The ladder already gives you 100 level range that you can attack someone, is that not enough for you?  Or has one guild bullied scared everyone out of that band?  I think that in itself tells you something: people dont want +/- 100 levels, or else they would all join the Ladder

 

 

-----------------------

 

Off Topic, but I am curious how many PvP hits are done off the BB against a target who is both online, aware of a pending attack.  Because (in my mind) PvP is putting your strength against someone elses Strength.  Not knifing someone in the back while they sleep.  That is an assassination.

 

------------------

I really need to get back to work, but one final thought - With the PvP Arena and PvP Ladder being added for PvPers, why do you want to have a 3rd thing added for yourself?  Why not add something for the levelers!  Like the ability to opt out of PvP completely?

 

-------------------

Do I expect to be 100 stammed for my opinion, yes.  Has fellow guild members been 100 stammed for their opinions, yes.  But, that is the current climate of bullies PvPers.

[DeadParrot]

Many of those who want the ranges extended is in the group of players that like to bully other players and attack them only to provoke and harass in a legal way. I believe nothing good will come out of this and voted no like the majority and hope this will be left unchanged.

 

I assume most players are of the age of majority?  Then why so much fear, whining and (completely melodramatic and overplayed) talk of bullying?  Get a grip.  This is a game, its not bullying, and as I have stated as fact, XP and gold theft has been around since day one.  The only thing that has changed is the sensitivity and complaining of players.

 

The old days saw real action, interaction, guild dynamics, defending one's mates, etc... Now we have a bunch of "1 to 8 'ers" racing towards an ever heightening ceiling.  How will that sustain the interest of players?  Which is why we always need a yin to the yang.  Always.  Its human nature.

 

I've started a thread/rethread regarding our events (up in a few minutes).

 

DP

[Anam Charaid]

To the big time PvP'ers, congratulations! You have succeeded in helping many players, such as myself, to not only NEVER donate a single cent to this game, but to reconsider leaving FS entirely. The Cows will love you for that.  At the rate the game is shrinking, pretty soon you guys won't have anyone but yourselves to smash.  

[Nagoyaka]

Where did I whine? And fear? I'm laughing. I don't care where this ends as it don't affect me. Im just saying it would be bad for the game to do this with the obvious agenda behind it.

Edited by Nagoyaka, 20 February 2015 - 14:49.

[sweetlou]

To the big time PvP'ers, congratulations! You have succeeded in helping many players, such as myself, to not only NEVER donate a single cent to this game, but to reconsider leaving FS entirely. The Cows will love you for that.  At the rate the game is shrinking, pretty soon you guys won't have anyone but yourselves to smash.  

Here come's the real dramatic cry with threats of never donating and even leaving the game in one post... you're welcome!

[Rocknoor]

 

I think everyone is open to working out how much of an increase should be put into place, but there is little question as to the need for it. 

Ummmm...no.  Everyone is not open to an increase  in the range of attack levels.  Just looking at the poll shows you that over 60% of the vote is against an increase.  If you put this poll on the Home Page I'm relatively certain that percentage would probably climb to 75% to 80% of the FS population as most don't come to the forum. PvP'ers are a very vocal minority of players in this game always screaming for MORE,MORE,MORE.  Well the majority of players are saying NO, why should non-PvPer's have to endure additional attacks so that you (collective you) can have more "fun". Everything in the PvP world is rigged to maximize the PvP'ers ability to attack without consequence.  You attack almost exclusively when players are off-line, if we hit back you (again collective) put us on the Bounty Board which you have nerfed so you suffer no loss when you lose an attack during the subsequent de-leveling party. Do all PvP'ers do this? No you don't, but enough of you do and that's enough to  paint all of you with a  broad "bully" brush. If you don't like the tag then start policing your own and stop with the "That's just "Zeebop" being "Zeebop". Many PvP'ers abide by the slogan "we defend our own, no questions asked" why is that, why don't you know why you are hitting someone? As I have said before I've been deleveled for 10 stam bounty clears and in conversing with some of the de-levelers I'll say "you know that was for a 10 stam bounty clear right?", invariably they say "no I didn't know that, sorry".  It happens all to frequently, now why should non-Pvp'ers agree to an expansion of target ranges that exponentially expand this activity that's being perpetrated on them. Want more targets, talk to Grim about getting the PvP tournament up and running so you can all pound on each other and leave the rest of us alone.

Edited by Rocknoor, 20 February 2015 - 15:02.

[Calista]

Ummmm...no.  Everyone is not open to an increase  in the range of attack levels.  Just looking at the poll shows you that over 60% of the vote is against an increase.  If you put this poll on the Home Page I'm relatively certain that percentage would probably climb to 75% to 80% of the FS population as most don't come to the forum. PvP'ers are a very vocal minority of players in this game always screaming for MORE,MORE,MORE.  Well the majority of players are saying NO, why should non-PvPer's have to endure additional attacks so that you (collective you) can have more "fun". Everything in the PvP world is rigged to maximize the PvP'ers ability to attack without consequence.  You attack almost exclusively when players are off-line, if we hit back you (again collective) put us on the Bounty Board which you have nerfed so you suffer no loss when you lose an attack during the subsequent de-leveling party. Do all PvP'ers do this? No you don't, but enough of you do and that's enough to  paint all of you with a  broad "bully" brush. If you don't like the tag then start policing your own and stop with the "That's just "Zeebop" being "Zeebop". Many PvP'ers abide by the slogan "we defend our own, no questions asked" why is that, why don't you know why you are hitting someone? As I have said before I've been deleveled for 10 stam bounty clears and in conversing with some of the de-levelers I'll say "you know that was for a 10 stam bounty clear right?", invariably they say "no I didn't know that, sorry".  It happens all to frequently, now why should non-Pvp'ers agree to an expansion of target ranges that exponentially expand this activity that's being perpetrated on them. Want more targets, talk to Grim about getting the PvP tournament up and running so you can all pound on each other and leave the rest of us alone.

 

Umm, there has been a total of 114 votes in a forum poll where most don't come to the forum. Do you actually think that is the majority of players? Open it up to everyone and I think you'll be surprised.

PvP'ers are no more vocal then levelers. For every one of us you call vocal, there is another on the other side just as loud. And if you ask both sides, it's the other who constantly wants more. More protection, more win buttons, more pillow fights. Do you really want to do that circular argument any further?

I hit a target whether they are online or not. It's not my responsibility to keep up with other players time zones and sleep schedules. It's not like they can't see who did it, or that they aren't given a chance to respond however they want too. The game keeps moving, even when people aren't here to see it.

Hell yes we delevel people who hit us. So long as we have a reason. You might not like our reasons, but they are always there. Trash talking, nasty messages, bio warrior nonsense, fs box trash posts, double dipping, because my guildie asked me too, whatever. But I guarantee no one has lost 5 on the bb without first hitting someone. That's part of the risk we all face.

I don't like the bully tag. And you've known me long enough to know I'm not that type of player. Though going by what you say here, I'm guilty by association. Fine, I'll be the villain. But it's a nasty name to throw out so easily against people who have done nothing but follow the rules in place. We might push the boundaries of those limits, use the full amount of force we can to make it unprofitable for people to mess with us, but we wouldn't still be allowed to play this game if we were actually guilty of half the crap you accuse of us.
 

[BadPenny]

I read somebody had 40 targets toward EOC.... So I checked.  There are only 24 in the entire list.   Many of those are in the same guild.... They can't PvP each other.... so where does their prestige come in? .... Sorry, this is as broken as the ladder as it stands.  BG's proposal for the ranges is reasonable, and like it or not, *levelers* (God, I hate labels) this really needs to happen.  The sad thing is this has never been about the age-old "PvPer vs leveler" debate, it's about extending attack ranges.... AND THIS SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED LAST YEAR, OR EVER THE YEAR BEFORE. This is long overdue.... 

 

 

Everybody's all up about bullying..... I've said this till I'm blue in the face..... THIS IS A GAME.  IT HAS PvP IN IT.  YOU HAVE OPTIONS TO MINIMIZE YOUR CHANCES TO BE A PvP TARGET.  YOU KNEW PvP WAS INVOLVED WHEN YOU SIGNED UP FOR THE GAME....  Did I forget anything?  OH, yeah, IF YOU FEEL SOMEONE IS USING PvP TO *BULLY* YOU, contact  BigGrim, via ticket, or you can even message him in game or here.  He can and does fix things like that......

 

And those who think an extended attack range will increase the incidence of this *bullying* consider this.  I'm assuming we are talking about real harassment here, right?  Hourly hits for days on end, nasty/threatening messages?  This isn't PvP, folks, this is bending the game to one's will... Yeah, I'm against this.  If it's a 10 stam hit every 3 days, that's just prestige, and your name is barely remembered 10 minutes from now.... nobody is really interested in you, per se.... Was it because you forget to secure your gold?  Well, that's on you.  If I saw it, I assumed you left that there just for me...  Lastly, was it retaliation for something you did?  Did you malign somebody in messages?   Yeah, some of us just say it with stam, we don't waste our breath with trying to come up with witty replies to asinine letters from anyone.

Edited by BadPenny, 20 February 2015 - 15:39.

[Alioth1]

[3JS]

Ummmm...no.  Everyone is not open to an increase  in the range of attack levels.  Just looking at the poll shows you that over 60% of the vote is against an increase.  If you put this poll on the Home Page I'm relatively certain that percentage would probably climb to 75% to 80% of the FS population as most don't come to the forum. PvP'ers are a very vocal minority of players in this game always screaming for MORE,MORE,MORE.  Well the majority of players are saying NO, why should non-PvPer's have to endure additional attacks so that you (collective you) can have more "fun". Everything in the PvP world is rigged to maximize the PvP'ers ability to attack without consequence.  You attack almost exclusively when players are off-line, if we hit back you (again collective) put us on the Bounty Board which you have nerfed so you suffer no loss when you lose an attack during the subsequent de-leveling party. Do all PvP'ers do this? No you don't, but enough of you do and that's enough to  paint all of you with a  broad "bully" brush. If you don't like the tag then start policing your own and stop with the "That's just "Zeebop" being "Zeebop". Many PvP'ers abide by the slogan "we defend our own, no questions asked" why is that, why don't you know why you are hitting someone? As I have said before I've been deleveled for 10 stam bounty clears and in conversing with some of the de-levelers I'll say "you know that was for a 10 stam bounty clear right?", invariably they say "no I didn't know that, sorry".  It happens all to frequently, now why should non-Pvp'ers agree to an expansion of target ranges that exponentially expand this activity that's being perpetrated on them. Want more targets, talk to Grim about getting the PvP tournament up and running so you can all pound on each other and leave the rest of us alone.

I've highlighted a couple things here that I'd like to answer.

 

Levelers and PvPers alike, in general, really can't accuse the other side of doing this exclusively.

Sure, PvPers would like to be able to do it more. Hell, we'd like to still be able to hit guildmates. It would be good fun. On the other hand, levelers are also constantly screaming for more, too. More game breaking pots. More XP events. More whatever comes to their mind on any particular day. Please don't act like wanting to win is exclusive to one side.

 

If levelers truly want to be left alone, and were given a complete opt out, I'd bet that shortly after there would be a thread asking for prestige to be counted as an exception. It doesn't matter what side you fall on, not many are willing to give up what they're used to. Levelers are used to prestige by now. 

 

This post is not meant to troll anyone, nor argue. Don't take it as such. Just offering a different view.

[3JS]

On another note....

 

I keep reading about bullies. Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous. I've been in a few guilds in my days. I've been in the #1 guild, a couple smaller guilds, and I even flew solo for about a year. During this time, I cleared bounties from the "top" PvP players all the time. They have a way of making it on there a lot, and I had a notion once that I wanted to clear as many as I could. Never...not one time...did any of them bully me in any way. They very easily could have, as I had very little so called back up. Basically, I was easy prey if they were hungry. But for one reason or another, they never did. Could this be because I never talked garbage to them, or didn't give them any other reason to want to make an example of me? I'm going with yes on that one. 

 

Now, with that said....I've been deleveled my fair share of times. Know who did it, by any chance? It was orchestrated, exclusively, by players who say they don't like PvP. How they ended up on the board is beyond me, but it happened somehow. I'm not complaining. Don't get this twisted in any way. I did the crime, so I'll do the time. I'm just saying that PvP bullies sometimes aren't PvPers at all. 

 

Back to the topic on hand....

 

I mentioned this about 10 pages ago, but it's long gone into the abyss by now. PvP level ranges were put in place when the game had EoC set at a few hundred levels, and there were quite a bit more active players. Just like anything else, the game needs to evolve. BG is in favor of it, and he's on the payroll. His opinion counts quite a bit more than ours. 

[BadPenny]

On another note....

 

I keep reading about bullies. Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous. I've been in a few guilds in my days. I've been in the #1 guild, a couple smaller guilds, and I even flew solo for about a year. During this time, I cleared bounties from the "top" PvP players all the time. They have a way of making it on there a lot, and I had a notion once that I wanted to clear as many as I could. Never...not one time...did any of them bully me in any way. They very easily could have, as I had very little so called back up. Basically, I was easy prey if they were hungry. But for one reason or another, they never did. Could this be because I never talked garbage to them, or didn't give them any other reason to want to make an example of me? I'm going with yes on that one. 

 

Now, with that said....I've been deleveled my fair share of times. Know who did it, by any chance? It was orchestrated, exclusively, by players who say they don't like PvP. How they ended up on the board is beyond me, but it happened somehow. I'm not complaining. Don't get this twisted in any way. I did the crime, so I'll do the time. I'm just saying that PvP bullies sometimes aren't PvPers at all. 

 

Back to the topic on hand....

 

I mentioned this about 10 pages ago, but it's long gone into the abyss by now. PvP level ranges were put in place when the game had EoC set at a few hundred levels, and there were quite a bit more active players. Just like anything else, the game needs to evolve. BG is in favor of it, and he's on the payroll. His opinion counts quite a bit more than ours. 

OK, ran out of likes for the day, so I'll just do this:

 

This has the Pennah seal of approval.... 

[Rocknoor]

Umm, there has been a total of 114 votes in a forum poll where most don't come to the forum. Do you actually think that is the majority of players? Open it up to everyone and I think you'll be surprised.
 

2nd line, 4th sentence of my post that you quoted: "If you put this poll on the Home Page I'm relatively certain that percentage would probably climb to 75% to 80% of the FS population as most don't come to the forum."

[DeadParrot]

To the big time PvP'ers, congratulations! You have succeeded in helping many players, such as myself, to not only NEVER donate a single cent to this game, but to reconsider leaving FS entirely. The Cows will love you for that.  At the rate the game is shrinking, pretty soon you guys won't have anyone but yourselves to smash.  

 

This passive-aggressive post is part of the problem. Suggest a solution, not just whine.

 

DP