21 replies to this topic

[Andras]

Obviously, the current system to gain prestige points is very, very unbalanced.

 

My suggestion to fix this, is to allow prestige points to be gained from dungeons, quests, and end game content (what ever that may be, it won't be discussed here).

 

I've seen a few people state that it takes 3 years, approximately.

 

Players should gain 25 prestige points per dungeon completed, regardless of level. If one was to do 20 dungeons in one day, that would be 500 points. The average prestige vanity set requires a total of 20,500 points. That would require 41 days from a player, doing 20 dungeons each day.

 

TL;DR: 25 prestige per instance (regardless of level), 20 instances per day = 41 days until full prestige set. Which is far better than 3 years.

 

The above would be for players that purely run dungeons, but you'd also be able to acquire prestige points from quests.

 

The amount gained can be tweaked, to allow players to actually work for the prestige sets, if it is too easy. But it should still suffice, over completing daily quests for 3 years.

 

Also, subscribers could get a bonus to prestige points gained (15% bonus?) and an item can be introduced into the shop, to allow prestige points to be gained at a faster rate, when consumed (25% bonus?)

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:27.

[Roosterr]

I support this 

[ComradeLewis]

Pretty much any way of addressing this is a step forward. I really can't picture myself playing every day for 3 years just for an Eldevin Guard's vanity costume.

 

I also don't think that holiday events are a viable way of fixing the issue. It needs to be something the average Joe can do on an average day.

Edited by ComradeLewis, 26 February 2014 - 22:55.

[Mongo]

During xmas event all the crackers contained prestige points, you could obtain thousands if you grinded the drops, bought them from players etc.

 

Maybe something similar will be back with every special event? Like cracking eggs at easter! who knows.

[ComradeLewis]

 

 

During xmas event all the crackers contained prestige points, you could obtain thousands if you grinded the drops, bought them from players etc.

That was not an option when lev 40 aoe mages hoarded the lev 15 spawn the entire time. Events won't do it because the bored max lev, fully geared (obsessive compulsive) players ruin it for the casual players. It needs to be something that anyone can do on a normal day-to-day basis.

[Andras]

I, personally, feel that the special events should be made to avoid what ComradeLewis has pointed out (high levels hoarding the rewards), and at the same time, the rewards should be specific to the event. For example, during Easter, players can obtain a bunny pet, but it cannot be obtained at any other time.

 

Also I, for one, cannot play during holidays. Not easily, at least. So what of the players that face the same problem as I, and cannot acquire prestige points easily during the holidays?

 

I also don't run dungeons, as I do not have the time to find other players in queue, etc. Which is why I suggested there was more than one way to obtain prestige points (Dungeons, Quests, and End-Game). So limiting them to holidays kind of defeats the purpose. In fact, if professions could acquire more prestige points as well it would take less emphasis off of dungeons and leveling. It feels like there's too much focus on dungeons, which is a common thing in many MMO's and a nuisance for players, such as myself. However, I digress.

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:27.

[Praetor]

An easy solution to implement is to tie prestige points to quests. The higher the level quest, the more points. So a level 30 player has enough points to get one vanity outfit, and level 40 player earns enough for a 2nd outfit. Problem solved. And this can even be made retroactive, so existing players who have completed sufficient quests can be credited for the points. This can likely be done with a couple of simple database queries, then updates. Could be processed daily as a batch script so no changes required to the UI for the quests. Very very simple.

[Andras]

An easy solution to implement is to tie prestige points to quests. The higher the level quest, the more points. So a level 30 player has enough points to get one vanity outfit, and level 40 player earns enough for a 2nd outfit. Problem solved. And this can even be made retroactive, so existing players who have completed sufficient quests can be credited for the points. This can likely be done with a couple of simple database queries, then updates. Could be processed daily as a batch script so no changes required to the UI for the quests. Very very simple.

 

I like this idea, however, what about players who do not complete quests? I know of a few, who would rather grind dungeons than touch quests, again.

 

Again, this is why I suggested quests and dungeons, possibly even end-game content. It could be done so that quests will award enough points for one set, and the others could be gained through dungeons. One thing I wish to avoid is making the prestige points cheap, thus everyone has the sets.

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:26.

[Neon]

Disagree, keep the sets hard and long to get. They will obviously bring "prestige events" much like the Christmas crackers.

 

It's only vanity, if you want them hard enough you can grind for them and when a "prestige event" is released you exploit it as much as possible.

Edited by Neon, 27 February 2014 - 02:57.

[Andras]

Whether or not they implement 'prestige events,' is not 'obvious.' As far as I know, it was not explicitly stated anywhere and if one has to dig very deep to find where it was stated, that does not make it obvious.

 

It is 'only' vanity, however, it's very well known that players, especially those that are casual, tend to prefer customization a lot. More over, having a goal to work towards provides players with an incentive to play. There's nothing more redundant than a game where there is no real goal, then it is no longer a game. It is also impossible to 'grind' for prestige points, at this time. One would have to log in every day for three (3) years. More likely than not, life would intervene before that is accomplished.

 

No developer wants there game to be exploited.

 

I do believe that vanity sets should require some work and dedication upon the players behalf, however.

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:26.

[Neon]

Whether or not they implement 'prestige events,' is not 'obvious.' As far as I know, it was not explicitly stated anywhere and if one has to dig very deep to find where it was stated, that does not make it obvious.

 

It is 'only' vanity, however, it's very well known that players, especially those that are casual, tend to prefer customization a lot. More over, having a goal to work towards, provides players with a incentive to play. There's nothing more redundant than a game, where there is no real goal, then it is no longer a game. It is also impossible to 'grind' for prestige points, at this time. One would have to log in every day for three (3) years. More likely than not, life would intervene before that is accomplished.

 

No developer wants there game to be exploited.

 

I do believe that vanity sets should require some work and dedication upon the players behalf, however.

They already told us that they would bring back the 2013 Christmas event items, so the Christmas crackers will more than likely be obtainable again.

 

Yes it's only vanity, however if the set was available "easily" it would make some casuals less interested in purchasing vanity, since they'd be content with their free easy-to-obtain set. 

 

It's still very much a goal to work towards, a hard goal, a patient goal or an expensive goal.

 

Also just to clear this up, the Christmas event and the level 10/20 areas were empty quite a lot of the time, on both EU and US. There were only a few players actively farming them, most 40s left within the first week. So no, the level 40s were not "hogging" the area. 

 

High level players should always have an advantage over lower levels, actively competitive players will always have an advantage over the casuals.. it's an obvious thing and should be accepted.

Edited by Neon, 27 February 2014 - 03:17.

[Andras]

They already told us that they would bring back the 2013 Christmas event items, so the Christmas crackers will more than likely be obtainable again.

 

Yes it's only vanity, however if the set was available "easily" it would make some casuals less interested in purchasing vanity, since they'd be content with their free easy-to-obtain set. 

 

It's still very much a goal to work towards, a hard goal, a patient goal or an expensive goal.

 

Also just to clear this up, the Christmas event and the level 10/20 areas were empty quite a lot of the time, on both EU and US. There were only a few players actively farming them, most 40s left within the first week. So no, the level 40s were not "hogging" the area. 

 

High level players should always have an advantage over lower levels, actively competitive players will always have an advantage over the casuals.. it's an obvious thing and should be accepted.

 

For some reason, I could not find mention of the 'crackers,' even if they do bring those back however, doesn't matter. As was stated, before hand, almost anything, would be better than how the system currently works.

 

3 years for a vanity set, is not a goal. It's an investment of time, with very little return.

 

I wasn't at the event, so I cannot state if that is true or untrue, however, if high-level players were 'ruining the fun' of the lower level players, it is a problem. It should be equal on all grounds for a holiday, when you're celebrating, during a time of sharing and caring.

 

Your last statement, is entirely subjective and is your personal opinion. It has no place in this thread, as it does not affect the topic in any useful way.

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:26.

[Malthrus]

Basically no. Everything else in the game currently (from reaching max level in anything to obtaining the best gear) EXCEPT for max-tier gems are already way too easy to obtain, and you want to make the only cosmetic set that has any sense of accomplishment attached to it easy to get for 1 months casual work?

 

There SHOULD be things in the game that take a long time to obtain, so people who have finished the game have a long term goal to work towards something cool and unique. If you suddenly saw a bunch of other people wearing the same set as you it suddenly isn't as cool or feel as rewarding anymore. 

 

It's not like you really need to buy the gloves or boots as their visual difference is very little, could reduce the cost of those 2 pieces.

 

You can fill the whole game with zero effort instant gratification equipment with stats on it all you like, but leave a cosmetic set or two for the more dedicated/hardcore player, so when you see somebody wearing that set you know they worked hard for it. It is called "Prestige" after all.

Edited by Malthrus, 27 February 2014 - 04:13.

[Andras]

Basically no. Everything else in the game currently except for max-tier gems are already way too easy to obtain, and you want to make the only cosmetic set that has any sense of accomplishment attached to it easy to get for 1 months casual work?

 

There SHOULD be things in the game that take a long time to obtain, so people who have finished the game have a long term goal to work towards something cool and unique. If you suddenly saw a bunch of other people wearing the same set as you it suddenly isn't as cool or feel as rewarding anymore. 

 

It's not like you really need to buy the gloves or boots as their visual difference is very little, could reduce the cost of those 2 pieces.

 

You can fill the whole game with zero effort instant gratification equipment with stats on it all you like, but leave a cosmetic set or two for the more dedicated/hardcore player.

 

'Zero effort, instant gratification equipment, with uber stats,' is not what this thread is about.

 

I stated that they should require effort upon the player's behalf. The current system does not reward skill, or even time spent playing the game. Only that you log in for an hour or two, every day, for 1,095 days (3 years (approximately)).

 

Frankly, everybody in this thread could be dead in three years. I am a hardcore gamer and I would rather be rewarded for skill, rather than how often I log into something, like a face book game. Also, since it does not require skill or time spent actually playing the game, every player that plays today will have the set that you have, in 3 years. Assuming that they still play. It doesn't make you stand out and it isn't really a reward.

 

More over, purposefully denying casual players from certain things in the game, is prejudice. 

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:26.

[Malthrus]

Yeah but it's a cosmetic set, you don't NEED to have it. I am sick of communist games where everybody has to be equal, no matter how little effort or bad they are at the game.

 

It doesn't even change your stats, mmorpg's used to have gear that only the most hardcore players could obtain which was way more powerful than easier to obtain gear. I much prefer that system over 'everyone has to be equal, you pay the same for the game bla bla' and that was back when I had 2-3 hours a day to play video games. But I am ok with unique cosmetic sets too.

 

I agree somewhat on the skill part, but the game doesn't offer anything challenging so that can't be the case yet. Maybe in the future if there's a PvP ladder the top 1% of players get a unique cosmetic set or something, that would be cool. Also suggested adding uber versions of lower lvl bosses scaled to max lvl to the eldevin arena, maybe those could award some cool looking sets.

 

But please don't change the way the current prestige sets are obtained or their time investment, because it's unfair for the players who have actually been actively working towards their prestige & reputation count since the game launched. It's easy to see it the wrong way if you haven't yet made the effort to go out and farm prestige.

Edited by Malthrus, 27 February 2014 - 05:13.

[Andras]

The current system, is obviously broken.

 

You do not farm for prestige points, you wait, like on a Facebook game. It isn't hardcore, it's only half-ass dedicated (you don't have to play, just log in). I would much rather be rewarded for skill and true dedication. MMORPG's accommodating to casual players, is very, very common. That isn't what I'm asking for, quite the opposite. I am requesting an accommodation for hardcore players.

 

The current stats for equipment will suffice, I do not perceive an immediate problem. I can use 'outdated' equipment for quite some time, with correct attribute and talent distribution. More over, I do tire of seeing everybody my level with the same exact equipment that I have. Customization is everywhere in video games, today, that it may as well be standard. Look at the new Halo and CoD games (I don't play CoD, though). Or even Rune Scape. They all have very high levels of customization. Does this game need to be that good? No. But it could still be better than what it is now.

 

If the only way to gain prestige was through dungeons, then one thing the developers could do, is only dungeons your level can award prestige. This means a level 40 cannot farm Boondocks and power leveling new players, does not award any, either. Someone else suggested that by level 30 - 40, players could acquire a prestige set, from questing. That's mid-late game, if you've dedicated time to questing. Not everybody does (a lot of players opt for dungeons). They could even implement a mentor system, which would help new players and the higher level players, could be rewarded with prestige. The last suggestion, was actually to allow end-game content to reward prestige. For example, using what you stated, imagine a boss-rush mode. Where you have to fight X amount of boss (leveled), within X amount of time.

 

That is not casual. In all cases, it requires dedication and in most cases, skill, from the player. It does not have to be easy. But most of the player base will not wait three years, for a full prestige set. They could just as easily implement a veteran set, acquired when your character is X years old. I mainly posted this suggestion, because players in World Chat, asked me to. So I am not the only person, and I do speak for quite a few players, here. It's been pointed out by many players, that the prestige system is quite ridiculous.

 

Also, from the dungeon example; 41 days to get a full prestige set, is from 20 dungeons a day. Your level. That's not casual. Most players that I know, only do 5. That would require 165 days, for one set.

Edited by Andras, 01 March 2014 - 01:25.

[Malthrus]

I agree that you should be able to farm it outside of dailies, time investment should be the determine factor on obtaining these particular prestige sets. So if a hardcore grind could be designed to obtain prestige that isn't limited per day, I would be happy with that. Just don't make it take only a few weeks for the whole set.

Edited by Malthrus, 27 February 2014 - 08:16.

[Akadria]

Summary of my opinion: yes, totally agree there should be more/better/different ways to acquire prestige points, and yes, totally agree that getting the prestige vanity items should be a LONG-term goal that takes dedication and hard work, so you're not gonna see 50% of players running around in full prestige sets, because that would suck.
 

Maybe something similar will be back with every special event? Like cracking eggs at easter!

+1
 

Also I, for one, cannot play during holidays. Not easily, at least. So what of the players that face the same problem as I, and cannot acquire prestige points easily during the holidays?

The winter event lasted for three weeks (18 December to 8 January), and I assume other events will also last long enough so everyone who wants to should be able to find some time to participate. 
 

In fact, if professions could acquire more prestige points as well it would take less emphasis off of dungeons and leveling. 

This! Like has been said in other threads, levelling crafting skills should be more rewarding, and one way to do it could be... well, something that rewards prestige points (more than just the level-up-in-any-skill daily quest), and maybe rewards something else too (or a choice of different rewards including prestige). I got the idea that maybe (on higher levels?) you can craft certain items that will not be usable/equippable by players, but you can sell it to NPC factions who require the stuff -- like the Eldevin Army might need a certain style of armor pieces and equipment (the silver-green stuff that they usually wear), and the Arcane Council might have a demand for Arcane Council-style robes and stuff, etc. Being awarded Prestige Points for this makes sense since you're directly working for the factions. Though of course it shouldn't be too easy, which is why I'm suggesting this for higher crafting levels, also the grinding can be slowed down by having a limit to how much demand the factions have for the stuff, so they're not willing to buy an endless amount of things every day. ... Just a fleeting idea.  
 

I like this idea, however, what about players who do not complete quests? I know of a few, who would rather grind dungeons than touch quests, again.

People who don't do story quests don't deserve nice things.
 

Yes it's only vanity, however if the set was available "easily" it would make some casuals less interested in purchasing vanity, since they'd be content with their free easy-to-obtain set.

^Good argument.
 

That was not an option when lev 40 aoe mages hoarded the lev 15 spawn the entire time. Events won't do it because the bored max lev, fully geared (obsessive compulsive) players ruin it for the casual players.

 

That's not true. During the event my level was too low to venture out of the level 10 areas so that's where I was grinding, and I don't remember there being a time where I couldn't find a place to grind in peace. Server-hopping was necessary sometimes, but like after the first ten days or so the whole event area started getting more empty of players, and I could do as much grinding as I wanted to.

 

Not saying that it wasn't often a challenge to get a good spot, I remember Jack especially being a nuisance quite often.  Frying ten lvl 10 snowmen in the cave in one second with his leet lvl 40 skillz, so there wasn't much left for me. When I ran into him I just hopped servers or grinded outside of the cave.
 

Edited by Akadria, 27 February 2014 - 12:15.

[Ant]

Im sorry Andras you're writing is too small for me to read it all.

 

I don't mind some things being hard to get or else if you see everyone wearing it's not worth the time getting.

 

I haven't even thought about prestige yet and not too worried either. There's no point making everything take a day to get.

 

I was too low during christmas event to Aoe grind but I still got quite a few crackers just by myself.

I got no problem with someone who took the time to get a high lvl in something to be able to take advantage, happens in alot of games.

[Andras]

This! Like has been said in other threads, levelling crafting skills should be more rewarding, and one way to do it could be... well, something that rewards prestige points (more than just the level-up-in-any-skill daily quest), and maybe rewards something else too (or a choice of different rewards including prestige). I got the idea that maybe (on higher levels?) you can craft certain items that will not be usable/equippable by players, but you can sell it to NPC factions who require the stuff -- like the Eldevin Army might need a certain style of armor pieces and equipment (the silver-green stuff that they usually wear), and the Arcane Council might have a demand for Arcane Council-style robes and stuff, etc. Being awarded Prestige Points for this makes sense since you're directly working for the factions. Though of course it shouldn't be too easy, which is why I'm suggesting this for higher crafting levels, also the grinding can be slowed down by having a limit to how much demand the factions have for the stuff, so they're not willing to buy an endless amount of things every day. ... Just a fleeting idea.  

 

/snip

 

Not saying that it wasn't often a challenge to get a good spot, I remember Jack especially being a nuisance quite often.  Frying ten lvl 10 snowmen in the cave in one second with his leet lvl 40 skillz, so there wasn't much left for me. When I ran into him I just hopped servers or grinded outside of the cave.
 

 

Certain faction NPC's could give 'jobs' to players, that they get 'paid' for. In coin and prestige. Lower levels giving less, of course, and higher levels giving more. It would also give variety in profession leveling, rather than just grinding the same pair of boots for the next level. Heh.

 

Also, as for the ending of your post; imagine if the game picked up (I, for one, am hoping that it does) and there were far, far more high level players ... As well as lower levels, grinding the snowmen. Would it have still been as easy? I am thinking, not.

 

Im sorry Andras you're writing is too small for me to read it all.

 

I have fixed this, sorry.