~ Cows - "Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will make us lock you."
Guys, buddies, pals... cows... what's going on? You guys are really leaning on that lock button nowadays aren't you? I mean, you invited us to that "Credit costs being altered" topic, and you shut the door on us.. what's that about? That's just so odd to me. It would be like being invited to a crime scene by the police and when you show up they say "Ok people, nothing to see here.. move along"... ~ Kyle - "wha? I was invited, at least I think I was... the guy sounded really cop'ish on the phone :? "
Sure, you were going to get a few rebuttals. The price of FC had indeed gone up like anyone could have predicted. You lower the price on things for levels 81 and up.. more credits get pumped into the world without adding any new credit sinks.. the value of credits goes down(concerning FC). It's that way because it has to be that way. Which isn't a bad thing by itself until the majority realize they're no better off with these lower prices. Now instead of paying the higher price for their items, they're paying that price at the crystal market. Along with that brand spankin new market price they get the added bonus of having to hunt for longer to get the amount they need to make a reasonable bid on their next crystal. With that comes an increased chance for death before they make that bid, losing a lot of what they thought they were saving at the shops. [note - the higher the bid needs to be to acquire a crystal, the more credits a person will lose if they die near that amount(instead of a lower one).]
Then you have the people who are pumping the crystals into the market. They have increased survivability do to their upgrades and gear. They make more per hunt because they are able to spend more stam between buff and stim purchases. They use the extra credits they're making to buy more crystals. Now all these points matter, but the one that really really matters is the next point. They have less reason to sell those crystals to you(the people who actually need them). Why is that? because part of the reason they were selling them before was to pay these huge prices at the store. The price goes down and voila.. so does their need for your credits. [note - The longer it takes for people to sell their credits, the more likely it is they will die before they do(while hunting).]
Now maybe it's all for the best, who knows. But the game admins shouldn't be so quick to lock the door, simply because a few people are getting upset at what their lying eyes are telling them. Just sayin.
[LOCKED]
Side note - Topic isn't actually locked yet(though strangely, I feel it coming). I'm just teasing the cows.
Lockity Lock Lock
Started by
ss_kylereese
, Jun 01 2009 17:44
25 replies to this topic
#2
acidic
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 17:51
No one really seems to acknowledge that while the price of FC may go up, the amount of credits required to build things and repair things has gone down. Overall this means that you have more credits overall. Basically, you have to hunt about the same to buy an FC as before because it costs you less in repairs and missions to hunt.
As for the locking, I agree that it is ashame they feel they need to, however, it is also ashame that the members of this community react so strongly that threads need to be locked to prevent widespread dissension. I know that I have had my moments too, but overall try to bring a level headed approach to some of these topics.
As for the locking, I agree that it is ashame they feel they need to, however, it is also ashame that the members of this community react so strongly that threads need to be locked to prevent widespread dissension. I know that I have had my moments too, but overall try to bring a level headed approach to some of these topics.
#3
ss_kylereese
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 19:17
Et tu Brute?... acidic you wound me. Now I see that you're putting the cart before the horse, but allow me to prevent you from riding it that way(it's painful and unsightly). I mean, forgetting that the price for FC rose immediately following the price cuts at the store and let's just focus on the people with crystals having to pay less for things during their hunt. You see, extra credits for everyone isn't always the best thing, especially when the people getting those extra credits are the people selling their crystals for, wait for it... credits!
As far as the other price cuts we've already been given for repairing and what-not, the price for FC went up then too. It had even gone down to around 10k before they made the change in price for assembling an item at the factory in which... it went up then too. As for it not taking longer to purchase the crystals, you have to take in to account the levels where people aren't doing a mission. The only thing that changed for them during those levels with these recent price cuts on items is the added price in FC(any extra credits they're making is done through saving). Then you have to take into account people not wanting to sell their crystals as often, because they are either getting their credits from their newly inflated banks or they can simply hunt the credits themselves as the prices aren't as huge as they once were.
Now it would be nice if you could simply give everyone more credits and everything just clicked. But unfortunately it doesn't. The best way to see how this causes a problem is by taking it to an extreme. Just imagine the chaos that would ensue if everything in the store had a 50 credit price tag. A few weeks later, the price for a crystal would be well beyond the means for any part time player to make in a hunt... even on a level with a mission[tongue in cheek]. Even though it's unlikely anyone with over 1500 stam or so can tell the difference, It's better if we don't forget there are other people living in this little universe of ours who might.
Example on how this works - Less credits for items... Crystal sellers sell less often.. Higher crystal cost.. Player pays less for mission items... Takes around the same time on mission days to buy crystals as with the old price on mission days... Takes a longer time on days with no mission as it did with old price and no mission.. people who were barely making enough for a crystal during a hunt are now really struggling to get the credits needed.. The people who can't get the credits must wait for their next hunt and before they hunt they need all new buffs and stims most likely.
About the only people who can really benefit from this are the people doing a whole lot of shopping, all the time. But then they're not really getting the same amount of crystals either, there just getting a bigger bag full of stuff. Which would be fine if a big bag of stuff was the only thing we were looking to purchase, but unfortunately as our increasing max stam limits can testify.. it's not.
As far as the other price cuts we've already been given for repairing and what-not, the price for FC went up then too. It had even gone down to around 10k before they made the change in price for assembling an item at the factory in which... it went up then too. As for it not taking longer to purchase the crystals, you have to take in to account the levels where people aren't doing a mission. The only thing that changed for them during those levels with these recent price cuts on items is the added price in FC(any extra credits they're making is done through saving). Then you have to take into account people not wanting to sell their crystals as often, because they are either getting their credits from their newly inflated banks or they can simply hunt the credits themselves as the prices aren't as huge as they once were.
Now it would be nice if you could simply give everyone more credits and everything just clicked. But unfortunately it doesn't. The best way to see how this causes a problem is by taking it to an extreme. Just imagine the chaos that would ensue if everything in the store had a 50 credit price tag. A few weeks later, the price for a crystal would be well beyond the means for any part time player to make in a hunt... even on a level with a mission[tongue in cheek]. Even though it's unlikely anyone with over 1500 stam or so can tell the difference, It's better if we don't forget there are other people living in this little universe of ours who might.
Example on how this works - Less credits for items... Crystal sellers sell less often.. Higher crystal cost.. Player pays less for mission items... Takes around the same time on mission days to buy crystals as with the old price on mission days... Takes a longer time on days with no mission as it did with old price and no mission.. people who were barely making enough for a crystal during a hunt are now really struggling to get the credits needed.. The people who can't get the credits must wait for their next hunt and before they hunt they need all new buffs and stims most likely.
About the only people who can really benefit from this are the people doing a whole lot of shopping, all the time. But then they're not really getting the same amount of crystals either, there just getting a bigger bag full of stuff. Which would be fine if a big bag of stuff was the only thing we were looking to purchase, but unfortunately as our increasing max stam limits can testify.. it's not.
#4
acidic
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 22:25
just to clarify, I was not accusing you of over reacting kyle.... In general though somethings tend to carry on too far which I think may be responsible for the locking of threads as of late.
#5
centurion
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 22:48
first of all, there are FC only because people donate. The value of FC is function of donation and CR requirement in the game. The games top donaters are also top players. For example, I have not converted 1 FC since the new content came out. I am almost even in terms of total FC that I have since I do make and sell stuff, as well as sell some of my old gears. so, I have not made 1 FC from the market, and in fact sold several FC. The lower level have lot of advantages, since they can buy FC'd gear for so cheap, not to mention using factions gear. all their CR goes toward FC and in turn goes into their character upgrade.
lower equipment price has made it so that high level players can do the missions and may be pay for some forging/new equipment using lot of FCs. this is why price of FC is going up. high levels don't need to sell as many FCs.
best thing that can help the game is timely new content. new content means more equipment to buy/forge, etc. more FC being sold.
lower equipment price has made it so that high level players can do the missions and may be pay for some forging/new equipment using lot of FCs. this is why price of FC is going up. high levels don't need to sell as many FCs.
best thing that can help the game is timely new content. new content means more equipment to buy/forge, etc. more FC being sold.
#6
ss_kylereese
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 00:20
Not only don't I disagree, I even stated this in my post. so... no argument here.this is why price of FC is going up. high levels don't need to sell as many FCs.
I'm not sure this relates to the current topic. All of this would be true without the price of FC going up. If this is to illustrate that they can handle the burden of a higher FC price then we should establish who "they" are and maybe even, what faction they're in. Then we can ask them how they feel about the higher FC price. Other than that, I'm not sure how this ties in. maybe this was a general statement and not directed at my posts.The lower level have lot of advantages, since they can buy FC'd gear for so cheap, not to mention using factions gear. all their CR goes toward FC and in turn goes into their character upgrade.
I'm sure you're not saying that because you don't buy FC in the marketplace that we should somehow add that to the formula and assume that top players aren't buying marketplace FC. Since I'm sure you're not saying that, that means... I'm not sure what you're saying hehe.I am almost even in terms of total FC that I have since I do make and sell stuff, as well as sell some of my old gears. so, I have not made 1 FC from the market, and in fact sold several FC.
You're absolutely right, there aren't that many things in an HCS game that sinks the local currency quite like new content. But I would also argue that every little bit helps. Just because all of us can see the big changes new content brings doesn't mean the players struggling up through the lower levels won't notice the smaller changes(slight rise in FC price) that those of us a little more fortunate can afford to take for granted. We should be wary of these changes even if we aren't personally affected by them.best thing that can help the game is timely new content. new content means more equipment to buy/forge, etc. more FC being sold.
Oh I know, I was just messin around. And you're right, sometimes it does seem like we're hammering away at HCS for no good reason, and we do go overboard. But there is a show business saying that goes "you know you're in trouble, when they're not talking about you anymore." With that in mind, the cows should feel blessed knowing we're always talking about them.just to clarify, I was not accusing you of over reacting kyle.... In general though somethings tend to carry on too far which I think may be responsible for the locking of threads as of late.
#7
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:12
Wow...you really love to type don't you. I'm not actually going to read the entire thing because it would take me an eternity but I've only seen the cows lock one or two threads early. I see no reason in complaining over it or am I missing the big picture?
#8
ss_kylereese
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:48
Zing?... ummm, I suppose I like to type. Someday I even hope to have as many posts as you[fingers crossed]Wow...you really love to type don't you. I'm not actually going to read the entire thing because it would take me an eternity
"Subjective and subjective said the New York Times" So.. when is early? [Kyle gets his ruler out] No.. that won't work.but I've only seen the cows lock one or two threads early.
Yes.I see no reason in complaining over it or am I missing the big picture?
#9
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:56
Zing?... ummm, I suppose I like to type. Someday I even hope to have as many posts as you[fingers crossed]Wow...you really love to type don't you. I'm not actually going to read the entire thing because it would take me an eternity
Haha...one of your lifelong goals huh? Took me quite a bit of pointless posting to get that many actually..this'll help.
"Subjective and subjective said the New York Times" So.. when is early? [Kyle gets his ruler out] No.. that won't work.but I've only seen the cows lock one or two threads early.
Early is when people are still talking about the main idea of the thread. When the main points of the conversation begin to obtain to other things then..well..the cows don't like that.
Yes.I see no reason in complaining over it or am I missing the big picture?
I thought so...I seem to have really tiny eyes and a strong liking towards laziness. Could you paint the picture quickly for me so I don't have to scroll all the way up to your first post?
#10
ss_kylereese
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:13
The big picture is the amount of locking that has been going on and the recent price cuts we've been getting. However, the bulk of the material in the posts above is in relation to the price cuts. Additionally, There are others who have posted in this topic if you find my posts too long-winded.
#11
ecolitan
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 05:27
First, the fact that the price of fc rose is meaningless. What matters is how much in-game play gathers the creds needed to buy an fc. That's the only way to judge the expense of an fc in creds. Given the new costs, coupled with some other changes, the new fc prices seem very similar to me. I consistently make about 2-3 fc per day of energy over my costs when leveling. Of course, mission costs come out of this (as does new gear). This has remained roughly constant. The price of fc has gone up about 10% (maybe a touch more) and I finished my hunt with a bit more creds than I used to. So, seemed about the same to me.
As to locking... I only see one thread that seemed locked early. I agree with the OP that BG slammed the door shut prematurely on that thread. The other locked thread, in this forum in the last days, was properly locked as it discussed a player (ok a faction) in a way that was potentially negative.
As to locking... I only see one thread that seemed locked early. I agree with the OP that BG slammed the door shut prematurely on that thread. The other locked thread, in this forum in the last days, was properly locked as it discussed a player (ok a faction) in a way that was potentially negative.
#12
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 09:06
We lock threads when it goes off topic from the original thread or when things get a bit too heated and we want to put a stop to it. As for the FC market, we don't regulate it because it's completely player regulated, most of us don't even look at the crystal market unless we actually want to use it ourselves in game.
It's a conspiracy which seems to be developing among players that is completely void of any facts. The fact is we don't regulate it, we don't control it and the price cuts were for players benefits.. not ours! We don't want to silence you guys but when false accusations are being made we have to get involved, stomp our hoofs, put the story straight and sometimes yes.. lock the thread.
It's a conspiracy which seems to be developing among players that is completely void of any facts. The fact is we don't regulate it, we don't control it and the price cuts were for players benefits.. not ours! We don't want to silence you guys but when false accusations are being made we have to get involved, stomp our hoofs, put the story straight and sometimes yes.. lock the thread.
#13
ss_kylereese
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Posted 02 June 2009 - 18:54
I'm really not sure why you would think this eco, unless your statement wasn't complete. I would agree that you would always have to figure in the amount of credits you're generating, but to say the fact that the price of FC rose is meaningless? meaningless to who? Unless everyone is levels 81 and up I don't see how it could be meaningless to everyone.First, the fact that the price of fc rose is meaningless. What matters is how much in-game play gathers the creds needed to buy an fc.
Now if I was a level 20 with 500 energy and I saw the prices rise, well sure all my items are pretty cheap, but they aren't cheaper than they were yesterday right? I think I might be able to find great meaning in just the fact the price of FC rose. Especially if 2-3 crystals per hunt was some distant dream and I liked to purchase DP, RS and intensifier 50 every single hunt. And since I don't like to up and leave factions because it's not going too well, I would probably have to purchase them every single time. So.. what about hypothetical me? I think he wouldn't feel too reassured when someone over level 81 came and told him the price of FC going up was meaningless.
I think what you're probably saying is you have to take everything into consideration, and not just make some statement that only accounts for one aspect and think it blankets the whole topic. Well I agree, if ever an argument is seemingly simple it's probably... not complete.
[note - What spurred this topic is the locking of the Grim topic about them altering the costs of items for players level 81 and up, of which there were a few posts by others and myself. I should also state that I really have no problem with the cows locking topics. It's their forum and they certainly have the right to do so. I just thought it would be the perfect opportunity to tease them about it.]
#14
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 08:53
[note - What spurred this topic is the locking of the Grim topic about them altering the costs of items for players level 81 and up, of which there were a few posts by others and myself. I should also state that I really have no problem with the cows locking topics. It's their forum and they certainly have the right to do so. I just thought it would be the perfect opportunity to tease them about it.]
You tease! I wouldn't recommend doing it again ;P
#15
ss_kylereese
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:26
lol, I'm sowwyYou tease! I wouldn't recommend doing it again ;P
#16
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Posted 03 June 2009 - 21:22
What I meant - and pretty much said - was that the price of fc only has a meaning in the context of the availability of the local currency. When there is more local currency and the price of fc goes up there is little if any change to the price of fc.
Your concern for the poor level 20 is misplaced. Credit availability isn't something that starts at level 80. In fact, this entire change was addressing the fact that credits are freely available (from leveling) at low levels but weren't as available at high levels.
Will low level players get slightly less fc from their leveling with new prices? Yes. There has been a series of credit cost reductions in the game that all players now benefit from. The low level players were early recipients of these "gifts" and higher level players are now benefiting as well. I'm willing to bet that a level 20 player can still bank well over 1 fc per day of energy burned.
The rise in the price of fc has been steady with each content release. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Until this game manages to capture players that have a "need" to spend credits it will continue. The majority of the free credit flow in the game has come from lower level players until now. Now everyone has some free credit flow (as long as they aren't buying gear) and more fc are demanded.
Your concern for the poor level 20 is misplaced. Credit availability isn't something that starts at level 80. In fact, this entire change was addressing the fact that credits are freely available (from leveling) at low levels but weren't as available at high levels.
Will low level players get slightly less fc from their leveling with new prices? Yes. There has been a series of credit cost reductions in the game that all players now benefit from. The low level players were early recipients of these "gifts" and higher level players are now benefiting as well. I'm willing to bet that a level 20 player can still bank well over 1 fc per day of energy burned.
The rise in the price of fc has been steady with each content release. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Until this game manages to capture players that have a "need" to spend credits it will continue. The majority of the free credit flow in the game has come from lower level players until now. Now everyone has some free credit flow (as long as they aren't buying gear) and more fc are demanded.
#17
ss_kylereese
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Posted 04 June 2009 - 09:12
My concern isn't just for the poor level 20, my concern is for anyone who might have a problem when the price of FC rises. You want us to believe that when the credits go up along with the price of FC then it's all all the same, but it's not all the same. You want to know who my concern is for?...Your concern for the poor level 20 is misplaced. Credit availability isn't something that starts at level 80. In fact, this entire change was addressing the fact that credits are freely available (from leveling) at low levels but weren't as available at high levels.
Hmm, I wonder who talked about the possiblity of this in one of their posts?.. So let me get this straight, the price of FC goes up, the player goes to meet that new cost and shake it's hand and just before he/she does the carpet gets pulled out from under him/her and they lose an even bigger chunk of their earnings because you lose more when you're holding more. And that's just life for people who die occasionally, I don't even want to know how much "fun" ggg666999 is having.With the ridiculous cost of Flux Crystals now a days and the 2% chance of creatures killing me no matter my defence, I can now no longer kill enough creatures (yes, with intensifier), without dying, to get enough credits for a crystal.
Since I'm desperate to find a point of agreement. I'm going to pretend you're agreeing with me at least on this point. But of course.. they already got "gifts" so they're all content now and we can just move the price up on them. So let me just see if I'm following this.. they get a tax cut(so to speak) and then we raise the price on arguably the most important resource in the game? Well thank goodness they got that gift then.Will low level players get slightly less fc from their leveling with new prices? Yes.
This is forgetting the time when the price had slipped back to 10k and everyone was complaining because they felt their FC was getting devalued. Besides, on the actual days content comes out the prices usually drop do to the people with crystals needing credits. Then it goes back up again after each one hits the proverbial wall and don't need to use credits or even play until next content is released. How fast it goes back up is directly tied to how much use the people with crystals are getting out of their credits, and how many they need to do what they want.The rise in the price of fc has been steady with each content release.
Which is why we need to change it. None of us probably saw the inability to stack ammo changing anytime soon. In fact, it didn't even change anytime soon after we were told we would get it. Did our complaining help it's materialization come any sooner? I have no idea. But I wouldn't take a single one of my posts back about that, about intensifier stims or about anything else. I mean, I don't see it changing either.. and that's exactly why I'm bothering.I don't see it changing anytime soon.
So I'm asking... can we please get a few more credit sinks in here?
[note - I personally make around 3 crystals everytime I hunt. So I'm golden.. no problems here. Even on hunts where I die, I can deal with it and still save all my credits. But just because I can deal, doesn't mean everyone can or should have to.]
#18
BigGrim
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Posted 04 June 2009 - 16:04
So I'm asking... can we please get a few more credit sinks in here?
That is actually the plan. It just take a wee bit of time, Bud. We have a few ideas. One of which I wanna implement soon. Am I gonna tell you what it is? Hell no! Y'all know me better than that! But it should be amusing for people to play around with. Is it something from "The Other Game"? Nope. Sigma only.
#19
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Posted 04 June 2009 - 19:35
Ok what happened?..... Did you stay up all night buying crystals or something Grim? How did the price drop to 14k?That is actually the plan. It just take a wee bit of time, Bud. We have a few ideas. One of which I wanna implement soon. Am I gonna tell you what it is? Hell no! Y'all know me better than that! But it should be amusing for people to play around with. Is it something from "The Other Game"? Nope. Sigma only.
So... credit sinks huh? That's good to hear. Not that we need them after Bill Gates donated and drove the price down by nearly 4k, but its nice to know they're in the works. I also saw your post you made in "the other game" under a similar topic and am looking forward to a few tweaks there as well.
Thanks for the feedback.
#20
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 00:07
Man is it tiring having every word of every response parsed.
In short - I totally disagree that the price of fc is too high in local currency. The game is run in local currency. You don't need fc. The fix (for prices over level 80) was put in place so that non-donating players can pay for gear and missions out of local currency. It was done on these prices in lieu of increasing credit drops. Credit drops increased through around level 50 and then stopped increasing. The game through level 50 (HCS thought 80) was already in balance in terms of local currency. The game wasn't really in balance in terms of local currency after that.
I'm all for credit sinks if they are useful, fun and stay in the motif. But, I'll say it again. The price of an fc is meaningless. Can you play the game effectively with local currency? The answer seems to be yes through all current levels. Now, if the price of an fc got up around 100k (like some other game we all know) that would be totally different as the local currency drop rate doesn't allow that to be a useful transfer between currencies.
As for someone that "dies too much to get an fc". I'll say right now the problem there is that they are doing something wrong. The problem is you shouldn't die that often not the price of fc. I'd love to see a lower price of fc as I play this game primarily through local currency. But, the price of fc in local currency has been rising since inception other than a brief period where credit drops weren't sufficient to do missions and many players had to sell fc to level.
In short - I totally disagree that the price of fc is too high in local currency. The game is run in local currency. You don't need fc. The fix (for prices over level 80) was put in place so that non-donating players can pay for gear and missions out of local currency. It was done on these prices in lieu of increasing credit drops. Credit drops increased through around level 50 and then stopped increasing. The game through level 50 (HCS thought 80) was already in balance in terms of local currency. The game wasn't really in balance in terms of local currency after that.
I'm all for credit sinks if they are useful, fun and stay in the motif. But, I'll say it again. The price of an fc is meaningless. Can you play the game effectively with local currency? The answer seems to be yes through all current levels. Now, if the price of an fc got up around 100k (like some other game we all know) that would be totally different as the local currency drop rate doesn't allow that to be a useful transfer between currencies.
As for someone that "dies too much to get an fc". I'll say right now the problem there is that they are doing something wrong. The problem is you shouldn't die that often not the price of fc. I'd love to see a lower price of fc as I play this game primarily through local currency. But, the price of fc in local currency has been rising since inception other than a brief period where credit drops weren't sufficient to do missions and many players had to sell fc to level.
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