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what happened to guilds defending their own?


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#1 justinian9

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 13:59

Seems to me that PvP has been become an almost uncontested part of the game.  I could be wrong, but I see bounties on PvP players just sitting on the BB or when i check results the PvP player does not even lose 1 level as they are soft killed by friends.   I know PvP is still occurring as I see them getting bountied.

 

It appears most PvP crews work together so the breakdown in team play seems to be in leveling crews.

 

What happened to de-leveling parties and calling in allied crews to ensure the player losses 5?

 

Do allie crews even honor agreements when it comes to fighting back? Is the unofficial crew Allie system broken?  It is working well for PvPer as they have no issue calling in the allies.

 

Did all the fighting leveling players disappear or have we become overly  focused on our XP and level standings?

 

One would think with so many players at EOC that they would love to have something to do?

 

What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

EDIT:  PvPer comments are just as welcome as Levelers comments... just seems like it use to be better a few years ago before I quit playing for 2 years.


Edited by justinian9, 21 September 2014 - 14:31.


#2 Removed18058

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 17:20

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#3 yotekiller

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:39

It's called teamwork and most pvp players (and therefore guilds) understand this concept quite well while most leveling guilds seem to be full of people more focused on themselves and their own level number than actually working together for the greater good.  Sad but true and yet most levelers will say the teamwork of pvp'ers is evil and cause for the ruination of the universe.  Easier to point the finger of blame at others than look in the mirror I guess.


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#4 yotwehc

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 06:03

As a leveler, and the majority of my guild preferring that play style, I will NEVER ask my guild to have a delevel party on another player as I don't want them to lose levels. To me, that is working towards the greater good of the guild. It's easy to point the finger and blame evil levelers for not wanting to get into wars. I guess some of us have a different point of view.



#5 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:19

It's called teamwork and most pvp players (and therefore guilds) understand this concept quite well while most leveling guilds seem to be full of people more focused on themselves and their own level number than actually working together for the greater good.  Sad but true and yet most levelers will say the teamwork of pvp'ers is evil and cause for the ruination of the universe.  Easier to point the finger of blame at others than look in the mirror I guess.

It was not that way before.  I believe it is sad, defending mates was always fun... i was not always strong enough to join in but most mates would defend a fellow mate and join in on de-leveling parties.  De-leveling parties were never for 10 stamina hits they were for 100 stamina hits and normally only if attacked more then once.   It seems like it started when players started power leveling and focused on their own selves.  I would like to see that change



#6 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:25

As a leveler, and the majority of my guild preferring that play style, I will NEVER ask my guild to have a delevel party on another player as I don't want them to lose levels. To me, that is working towards the greater good of the guild. It's easy to point the finger and blame evil levelers for not wanting to get into wars. I guess some of us have a different point of view.

That was not the view of levelers in the past.  We defended our own and if we lost level also so be it.  That is why we had allie crews to assist when needed.... to ensure we hurt the player in question.... and they responded! They also wanted to ensure that our crew would help them when they needed it.  Mates were mates back then. Now we are neutered by a love of XP.  



#7 yotwehc

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 13:18

That was not the view of levelers in the past. We defended our own and if we lost level also so be it. That is why we had allie crews to assist when needed.... to ensure we hurt the player in question.... and they responded! They also wanted to ensure that our crew would help them when they needed it. Mates were mates back then. Now we are neutered by a love of XP.

Again, I would never ask a guildmate or even another guild to "punish" a player I was having a problem with. I was hit multiple times by a single player during a short period. Was my attacker going to be upset if I brought in a whole bunch of people to delevel him? Nope. That player was in a strong pvp guild and it was their MO to stay within a certain level range and would have loved nothing more then a war. They had no interest in leveling beyond that range. How do I know this? That player was frequently on the BB and still at that same range today. Playing right into their playing style and assisting and making them and their allies richer is not standing up. It's madness. Who has a stomach for an elongated war? Not true levelers. You can call it selfish but that is my play style. I deal with issues with other players on my own. I do not run and cry to my guild.

#8 LuxFerre

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 14:59

I agree that guilds as a general rule do not defend each other as in the past, but there are a few that do still hold defending mates as a virtue.  Individual choices we all make, such as the choice to bounty or not, the choice to set up delevel parties or not to, the choice to only level or to only PVP or to do whatever it is we choose to do ... THAT is a blessing.  We are all FREE to make CHOICES.  Now, we must live with the consequences of the choices we make.  A choice or it's consequence doesn't in itself make something "right" or "wrong", but every action does have a reaction and every non-action has its own reaction.  The fact that we might not get the reaction we desire on making our choice is simply the way life is.  I would like to eat steak with carbs 24/7 and have my body look like my old LuxFerre avatar ... but ... ain't gonna happen.  This is life and it's order.  We are blessed to be able to make the choices we make and we need not blame the system, but instead make our choices in accordance with our own value systems.  What one could do, if one CHOOSES, is to align oneself with others that share the same or have similar value systems.


Edited by LuxFerre, 22 September 2014 - 15:11.


#9 BadPenny

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 15:52

As a member of a guild that still does honor alliances, I will say that ALL of my allies know I offer my blade.  I think that over the years, we have settled into a levelers vs PvPers mentality.more than ever before,  This saddens me


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#10 Crzy

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 18:02

Pretty sure I'm probably wrong but I'd blame the epic potions/buffs that were introduced. Back then there were no level 500 Conserves and 1200+ DBLs. Gold was harder to come by and people thought any listing over 100k was overpriced. Back then EXP was also tougher to get so when you got hit and lost 1 million EXP, it meant you had to work to get that back. People actually cared about both more IMO.

 

Now someone can just throw on some Zombie brewed epic pots and regain any lost exp/gold in a matter of minutes. Couple that with the fact that PVP allies ARE still connected pretty much means most people won't bother. Why delevel party and risk a war where you will be outnumbered and potentially get other guildmates that want no part of it, involved?

 

Lose-lose situation because in the end the PVPers will still go on with stealing gold if the hunter is careless.


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#11 avvakum

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 21:57

Many leveling guilds defended their own in the past. Our gold thieves assumed their own risk, so losing 5 lvls for a gold hit was business as usual. Our rules are still the same:

 

GOLD HITS: We encourage you to discourage them. We do not protect our thieves that are caught with their hand in the cookie jar from reprisals except in 2 situations. 1. Trashtalk, disrespect, or threats are involved or 2. mercs are used.

 

BTW, there were ruthless PvP wars between top leveling guilds in the past, for example, TEW (1st place) vs. Relentless (3rd place). The most frequent reasons for warring between leveling guilds were old PvP points (how ironic) and Relics. The PvP guilds warred with the leveling guilds over trashtalk, disrespect, threats, mercs, relics. I don't remember any war over taking 5 lvls for a gold hit.   



#12 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 22:06

Pretty sure I'm probably wrong but I'd blame the epic potions/buffs that were introduced. Back then there were no level 500 Conserves and 1200+ DBLs. Gold was harder to come by and people thought any listing over 100k was overpriced. Back then EXP was also tougher to get so when you got hit and lost 1 million EXP, it meant you had to work to get that back. People actually cared about both more IMO.

 

Now someone can just throw on some Zombie brewed epic pots and regain any lost exp/gold in a matter of minutes. Couple that with the fact that PVP allies ARE still connected pretty much means most people won't bother. Why delevel party and risk a war where you will be outnumbered and potentially get other guildmates that want no part of it, involved?

 

Lose-lose situation because in the end the PVPers will still go on with stealing gold if the hunter is careless.

But doesn't this point fall in line with my point.  I just lost 109 levels fighting on the BB and just waited until I had full stamina, buffed and epic potioned up and regained all the levels plus 18 more and still had stamina left... so why not fight the good fight?  It adds more GXP to!  I dont see why we levels would care its a win, win situation for us. I dont care if I lose levels, Its no big thing. 

 

Now I do understand lower level players having a concern about there level(s) (XP)  it is harder for them to get back.

 

We as levelers have figured out how to protect our gold and we should use the every trick to do so.

 

There are very few true PvPers left in the game, they like their levels and XP also. If this was not true then no PvP crew would be high up on the top rated guild list. 



#13 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 22:10

Many leveling guilds defended their own in the past. Our gold thieves assumed their own risk, so losing 5 lvls for a gold hit was business as usual. Our rules are still the same:

 

GOLD HITS: We encourage you to discourage them. We do not protect our thieves that are caught with their hand in the cookie jar from reprisals except in 2 situations. 1. Trashtalk, disrespect, or threats are involved or 2. mercs are used.

 

BTW, there were ruthless PvP wars between top leveling guilds in the past, for example, TEW (1st place) vs. Relentless (3rd place). The most frequent reasons for warring between leveling guilds were old PvP points (how ironic) and Relics. The PvP guilds warred with the leveling guilds over trashtalk, disrespect, threats, mercs, relics. I don't remember any war over taking 5 lvls for a gold hit.   

Relic wars were fun!!  Now there are more then enough for all the crews.

 

 I am just talking about a simple de-leveling party to defend ones mate. Allies being allies.  Heck mates being mates, isn't that why we join guilds for support when we need it? 

 

I have been watching the BB and it seems that this is no longer a standard. 


Edited by justinian9, 22 September 2014 - 23:34.


#14 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 22:28

As a member of a guild that still does honor alliances, I will say that ALL of my allies know I offer my blade.  I think that over the years, we have settled into a levelers vs PvPers mentality.more than ever before,  This saddens me

I believe most, if not all,  PvP crews still honor alliances as you guys depend on that support more often then we do due to the type of play you guys in gauge in. 

 

I'm not sure it's sad, it's good to have enemies in a game.  I think the issue is when we take things personal.  This is a game for me, as it is for many.   



#15 justinian9

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 23:17

I agree that guilds as a general rule do not defend each other as in the past, but there are a few that do still hold defending mates as a virtue.  Individual choices we all make, such as the choice to bounty or not, the choice to set up delevel parties or not to, the choice to only level or to only PVP or to do whatever it is we choose to do ... THAT is a blessing.  We are all FREE to make CHOICES.  Now, we must live with the consequences of the choices we make.  A choice or it's consequence doesn't in itself make something "right" or "wrong", but every action does have a reaction and every non-action has its own reaction.  The fact that we might not get the reaction we desire on making our choice is simply the way life is.  I would like to eat steak with carbs 24/7 and have my body look like my old LuxFerre avatar ... but ... ain't gonna happen.  This is life and it's order.  We are blessed to be able to make the choices we make and we need not blame the system, but instead make our choices in accordance with our own value systems.  What one could do, if one CHOOSES, is to align oneself with others that share the same or have similar value systems.

I agree. 



#16 justinian9

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 00:12

Again, I would never ask a guildmate or even another guild to "punish" a player I was having a problem with. I was hit multiple times by a single player during a short period. Was my attacker going to be upset if I brought in a whole bunch of people to delevel him? Nope. That player was in a strong pvp guild and it was their MO to stay within a certain level range and would have loved nothing more then a war. They had no interest in leveling beyond that range. How do I know this? That player was frequently on the BB and still at that same range today. Playing right into their playing style and assisting and making them and their allies richer is not standing up. It's madness. Who has a stomach for an elongated war? Not true levelers. You can call it selfish but that is my play style. I deal with issues with other players on my own. I do not run and cry to my guild.

There have always been those among us that did not defend mates but there was always a core inside a crew that did what needed to be done. Not all complaints  to leadership from mates concerning hits on them is crying.



#17 justinian9

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 01:08

I hope all concerned know that I did not start this post to degrade anyone concerning their game play.  I have just been spending time watching the BB and noted that bounties placed by levelers (and even PvPers) had little to no results, so I typed up my thoughts, opinions  and questions and started a forum discussion.

 

The way we choose to play the game is up to each player. Players relationship in their guild is between the player and his mates not I.  Any post I make is not meant to insult anyone nor to degrade their game play. 

 

I am a very direct person and my directness can be perceived as an insult when i type my thoughts. 



#18 midgetmanj

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 01:28

Just offer my two cents in, I organised a deLevel party on someone today.  The reason being is he thought it funny to be a "double dipper". So, yea they do still occur, just very very rarely



#19 BadPenny

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:13

I hope all concerned know that I did not start this post to degrade anyone concerning their game play.  I have just been spending time watching the BB and noted that bounties placed by levelers (and even PvPers) had little to no results, so I typed up my thoughts, opinions  and questions and started a forum discussion.

 

The way we choose to play the game is up to each player. Players relationship in their guild is between the player and his mates not I.  Any post I make is not meant to insult anyone nor to degrade their game play. 

 

I am a very direct person and my directness can be perceived as an insult when i type my thoughts. 

 

 

You need to know if the BB has results? It does....  Look at my lost levels.... I lost most of them for standing up with guildies and allies.  I wear them as a badge of honor, to show that I am willing to make sacrifices for those that I hold dear.  There are still many many players like this.  You just gotta travel in the right circles ;)


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#20 BraveKath

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:35

There's one consideration that I've not seen here.  While I have always felt it honorable to stand up for my guildmates and friends, I always have to know why and I have to agree that the situation is warranted.  Once in a while and for some folks more than that, we do dumb things - fingers fly a little too friendly and judgement not enough.

There have been guildmates, fortunately no longer at The Highwaymen, that would get PvP'd for gold or xp and they were quick to send insults and threats to the PvPer, and even do some very dirty tricks, but they would not stand up for themselves when they had the opportunity yet expected the guild to stand up for them when they had blown a random hit into a major incident.  These same folks consistently were never there for anyone else as they cherished their levels.

I find that usually when someone has a legitimate case that people do rally round and do their best to ensure justice is done.




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