^This

 

I believe this might be the solution to satisfy both sides. Create a global/seasonal event that focuses on the competitive part of GvG while leaving the current one alone for those that are more interested in the profit side.

 

 

Also, this is my opinion, but if a global competitive GvG is made I don't think players showed be allowed to use High Guard, Golden Shield, Dispel Curse, Invert, etc.

While I think things like HG/GS/DC/Invert cause a lot of luck, I don't see the issue of excluding them. However, this "tournament" or global/seasonal event could be a really good "test" time for the idea of limiting buffs (composing / epic potions) or the other ideas Hoof and Grim were discussing with buffs in things such as PVP and GVG. It would be interesting to see how that would affect the event and allow time for players to test and work through.

Rye - I like the revisions, and would support the changes as Yow mentioned above. Like many here who are in favor in some way, it would be nice to breathe life back into the GVG aspect and introduce more players into it. 

Side Thoughts/ Wish List:  It would be cool to see new RP buff packs introduced as well for 1 click cover all buffing.  Nothing crazy, just something to benefit the large (lots of members covered), and small (potentially limited human resources) guilds in making for the most possible competitive GvG venue ever.  Examples are for 25 RP Invigorate 200, 25 RP KE,Coordinated ATT, Smashing Hammer 175, 25 RP LD,GS,HG,FS 175,....etc..etc.  Something like that - I'm just throwing examples, these packs can be subject to community desire, but again it's important that we keep them reasonable - nothing overpowered -

One of the items I would suggest on this Rye is to increase the RP packs to at least above the current castable level of buffs (maybe like 200 or 225) so that it allows guilds some abilities to counter the composing and epic potions that people have access to.

Maybe also introduce a new buff (only in RP pack) where an offline defenders stats are increased XX% while no potions are active (buffs are okay, but epic potions, PVP ladder potions and composed potions counter the buff) so that it helps guilds defend when players are unable to get on, and will also possibly help to offset the leverage that composing and epic potions have introduced into the game. 

 

I have mentioned two flaws with the original idea and counter solutions with points to back it up:

Instead of simple reset of rating, Introduce guild size brackets to really level the playing feild 

Don't mess with RP gain, Introduce new Reward currency for more exclusive buff packs

In both of these, I see large flaws:

First - Guild Size brackets - how do you break them down? How will you count inactives? How would you suggest dropping the brackets so that there is enough "active" guilds? Just like the ladder bands that you see in PVP now, you'd run much into the same issues with GVG, as guilds continue to dwindle in size and larger guilds continue to recruit those player away. There's more questions that I could come up with, but am moving on. 

I would like to say that I can both defend and argue against your point of size of guilds in GVG. Smaller guilds have an advantage in terms of coordination and just buffing players. With less players to buff, there is less stamina. On the same note, there are also less members to be online. Where you have larger guilds like LWS and ND where there are usually people from different countries on at all different times. Larger guilds, while requiring more buffs, also have the advantage of having more members online at times, more members that can help buff (ie carry the load of stamina) and to help. As I'm sure Lap and Teh can attest to, being in a GVG guild really comes down to preparation and a buy-in from members (irregardless of reason) to help defend the guild. 

To your second point, there is an easy way to offset the gains that Rye has suggested - introduce new rewards to offset the "short-term" increase in RP coming into the game and offer new, more expensive RP packs that help guilds defend in GVG (especially larger guilds) that enable buffs above the buffable level (not composing or epic potion levels). Honestly, with supply and demand, the market really isn't going to "tank" persay. It is going to drop like it does now because there is still an increasing supply with less demand (less players needing the RP epics). Thinking about the idea that Rye mentioned where attackers get no RP in Draws and Losses, that would significantly change the market as well. If defending guilds received 2x RP they get now for a draw, then I'd bet you'd see some increase in the defense process, and require attacking guilds to actively defend. Granted there is room to take advantage and work with guilds to "game" the system (it would be against HCS rules, so could result in bans), it would be an interesting idea to see. 

Rye - you know we've discussed this topic at length, both in guild and in the past when we were in separate guilds. I support the idea, and hope that it continues to see the positive feedback and the negative to help balance the idea. I'm all for more activity within GVG, and I've tried to post about it multiple times. I'm all for bringing more activity to this part of the game, and be able to help others expand their horizons to experience the fun that GVG between guilds can bring. It is an experience that helps expand your knowledge in the game, and helps strengthens the bonds between your friends and guildmates. I highly doubt that I'd have most of the allies on my list without PVP and GVG in the game in some way, shape or form.  

All of them are 10xp, 20xp, 30xp, etc. 

Mostly the cheaper way to go - 20xp potions all the time. 

Thanks for the Global Grim. 

As a suggestion - can we start trying to have different end times? The "final" push for top 100 usually comes down to the last few minutes, and a lot of times, people don't have access to be on during that time. Maybe changing the end time on the events would be a nice thing to have. 

 

Just a quick bump - Grim/Hoof - any ideas or thoughts on the expanded ranges? I know this is the PVP thread, so I don't want to de-rail, but can we also think through GVG as well?

I don't think adjusting the PvP ranges would be beneficial to the game. I am however open to looking at potentially adding more PvP oriented daily quests (within reason!)

 

 

Aye I meant more changing the ranges are lower levels - I wouldn't be super opposed to increasing it (a bit) at the high levels of the game.

 

Yot, while I'm not looking for the same level ranges that Chazzz may have posted in the original thread, there are some major gaps for people who may want to participate in daily quests or PVP in general. As if currently sits, I have been lucky to have 7 people level within my PVP range in the past week and a half. Two weeks ago, I had 3 daily quests in a row that were PVP related without a single active target within range. Kind of hard to complete a daily quest to hit active players, if there are no active players within range.

Again, I'll paste what I had before as a slight increase to the PVP ranges. Would I like to to be increase further, probably, but at least it's a start to expanding the ranges. My guess (and I don't have any stats at this point to prove this theory) is that the game has a reverse bell curve in terms of active player population. There are obviously more players at lower levels and more players at EOC than the 2000 levels in between. 

A possible suggestion to adjust the PVP ranges. 

1-200 +/- 5

200-750 +/- 10

750-1500 +/- 15

1500-2500 +/- 20

2500 - 3XXX +/- 25

Just a quick bump - Grim/Hoof - any ideas or thoughts on the expanded ranges? I know this is the PVP thread, so I don't want to de-rail, but can we also think through GVG as well? 

lol Nice one Uncle Beg.

 

I think people should step back and take a long look at the tier 5 Inferno Hammer, before sending condolences out about it. lol

 

It has nice enhancements that can be very useful to the user.

The main reason for the Inferno Hammer level 5 was for the stamina gain. My guess is that there is one that is better out there in this list, at which point, the cost that the players who purchased said hammer, or items to make hammers, are going to be the unhappy group. 

Yep - also a few annoyed customers who may have paid for some of the RP item created epics as well. 

Thanks for the update guys, including this new titan. We'll see how everything ends up re-balancing itself in the market. 

Never said that PVP isn't part of the game. Some claim it's the only part... I think this is an MMORPG with many parts. But I think Chazz is looking for a sincere path to increase activity. HCS is in a tough spot... how do they increase pvp activity without the outcry? Study the successes and failures. Determine the root causes of the failures and try to figure out how to mitigate it. Your statement is interesting... "It's a way for some players to make a living" yet it's "dying." So what's your idea to make it vibrant without ruining the game for others?

 

Bounty hunting is failing because most don't post bounties... why? I do my part but most don't even when I offer to pay them to bounty the player.

 

Stealing gold is fun and can still be done. No one asked to remove this function so not sure why this is even brought up. Protection was changed so gold can be stolen regardless of protection.

 

I disagree with you about PVP is fun. I find it fun only when both parties are online "dancing". Hitting an offline target is shooting fish in a barrel especially in "normal" pvp. Calling that fun is disingenuous... It's easier to hit an offline target that is not prepared for an incoming attack (which most players aren't sitting in stam gear or with no buffs) then hitting monsters.

 

I think some find it fun because it gets other players mad... kinda sad that enjoyment is at the expense of other players. The real ones are the ones that want a true challenge.

I'll walk through your points, as I agree with many of the things that you've said. First, PVP in a way is dying, but I know plenty of lower level players who still use it to fuel their FS life (it's not the only thing, but one of many). I will definitely agree that HCS should study the successes and failures of the past (seasons, smasher medal for all hits, PVP ladder and the many iterations that mostly are failtures, etc.). I've tried to suggest items in the past that might increase activity, but not turn to either extreme (non-PVP vs full-PVP). 

I agree that most people don't place bounties. Some people understand that PVP is part of the game (many of the players that I talk to that get hit whether I'm stealing gold or completing dailies). Others have hit back, and then there are others who feel that it's not worth their cost to post. Each player has had a different experience while playing, so there are plenty of reasons, but it might be worth it for HCS to look into ways to increase the BB activity. They could bring back the auto-post bounty system once again with some modifications. They could make it easier/cheaper for players to be posted while finding a way to increase the reward given (so it doesn't have to 100% come out of the posting players pocket). I'm not sure I'd be in favor of bringing back the uncapped bounty loss, or the minimum stam usage per hit rule. 

Gold-stealing was just brought up as part of PVP. It's one of the reasons that players partake in PVP. I'd personally like to see thievery / master thief rates increase slightly, but that being said, I'm perfectly content leaving it the way it is. 

And I agree with what you said about when you find PVP fun, and I would completely agree. PVP isn't about the hitting an offline/unbuffed player. However, that is still part of the game. While no one can be buffed all the time, or compete against someone using composing potions and fully covered, it's still a risk within the game, and I respect that. I don't think that risk should be taken out, unless that's truly how HCS wants the game to move forward. 

It does... but at what cost? You still keep ignoring the prior failures... Smasher medal was a very simple one... People got PVP'd tons... BB was litup... There was mass outcry... similarly, PVP Seasons resulted in more pvp... more BB lights... mass outcry. How do you avoid mass outcry? Opt In but that is never on the table... why? I wonder?

 

Why not try? Have an open world PVP opt iin... PVP'rs will have tons of fun and hopefully draw more people in... I have suggested no xp loss pvp event (or perhaps endorsed someone elses idea about it) just to give people a taste for what it's like but it was crushed as an idea since it would be pillow fighting. Hard core won't let it happen. :/

It all depends on how the game was set up. As has been said many times by Grim and Hoof, PVP is part of the game. While I understand not everyone enjoys that aspect of the game, we also saw the issue with having an open world PVP where it didn't last in SS. 

The ladder is an opt-in. The seasons tournaments had turned into an opt-in. PVP is part of the game as Hoof and Grim have said. PVP is fun when PVP'ing other players, but it's also a way that some players are able to make a living (ie bounty hunting, gold stealing, etc.). Why diminish an already dying aspect of the game, outside of to remove it from the game completely as a player who may not be interested in said area. 

Just to expand the ranges slightly at EOC as the earlier statement - to +/- 15 or +/- 20.

 

Nothing more

I'd like to suggest a little more. I had checked about a week ago, and for GVG, I had maybe 60-65 targets within 100 levels. I had a daily quest the other day and had 0 people within my range to actively hit (luckily some people have leveled into my range so now I can hit them). I think with the buffs and potions available now, the ranges could be opened a little more within the thousands of levels we have. Currently, the range increases to 10 at 200 (I believe), and doesn't change from there. 

I think a scaled up version where you can have things up to maybe +/- 25 would be useful. Granted, I understand this allows people to possibly "target" people for a longer period, but once you start getting up to higher levels, people jump between 20-60 levels at a time anyway. 

Maybe something like 

1-200 +/- 5

200-750 +/- 10

750-1500 +/- 15

1500-2500 +/- 20

2500 - 3XXX +/- 25

For GVG, I'd also like the see the ranges expanded a bit, but it's a little more difficult there with gear changes and how powerful composing potions have become.

OK, I'm gonna regret this, but it's gonna bug me if I don't ask "why? why do you want to stay level 1?"

He was NAN before (below level 1) .. I'm thinking that might be why.

As Epic said before, die by creature. Opt into the PVP ladder to get hits that will reduce your XP gain. 

Or to go another way - "Monster Purge" is coming. There is an uprising within the monster realms. No one is safe, and everyone is a target. Monsters will attack players that are in any realm, where players lose experience when this happens. Players will continually be attacked at "X" amount of time, creating a list of wanted monsters. There would be a monster bounty board where the monsters who have the most kills, need to be caught and captured.  

I'm thinking the 10 year anniversary is going to be completely different than anyone expected, aka "The Purge". 

For 48 hours, PVP ranges expanded by 10 times normal ranges. XP loss is increased by 10 times, and winner gets 50% of XP loss towards leveling. Gold stolen is 50% chance for Master Thief, and there are no bank deposits. No one is safe, and even banks can be taken. Deflect is a buff that increases XP loss by 1000 times the already increased XP loss, and there are no buffs that can be used to reduce XP loss. Once you are below a realm based on your level, you will be teleported back to the start. 

Welcome to The Purge. Enjoy your stay, and no one is safe.  

Hi there.

 

Don't think we'll be doing this, no. We have just introduced the Tiered concept. This is likely how we'll move forward with Epics.

 

~ Grim

Grim, I think it's a great idea for the tiered epics. I'm glad you guys have started to do this, as it will allow some people who want that bonus to continue to upgrade their items if they want.

While planning the tiered concept, can we please keep in mind the inventable epics, and look at possibly the way to empower them as well? Currently, there is a want/need for the GVG items because of the newest inventable epics being some of the highest stamina gain items in the game. If the tiered epics concept outpower those items, then you'll see a drop in the demand of the GVG items. Some of the older items are already out of date (ie Blue Man of War Sword, and other lower level epics), and I don't want to see that happen when we start introducing other tiered items. 

Yup, the lag is brutal again ...

 

Anyone got any carrots or something to feed the hamster, 'cos the wheel seems to have almost stopped rotating

Did anyone oil the wheel? Maybe the bearings went bad =/

Glad im not the only one... 

 

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So much for farming more frags tonight before the global ended:/

Yea - think that made up my mind what to do with my stamina for the global - not dealing with this lag anymore

Agreed - haven't seen the lag this bad in a long time. 

Titan doubler has definitely increased the number of titans that have been killed (and in turn, could also increase more spawns), but it's not the pure reason that epic prices have dropped.

As you stated, prices have continually dropped in the game, which means there is an issue with supply/demand. Supply > demand, so prices drop to an equilibrium price. You can certainly drop supply with your method, but the bigger issue is that demand is not increasing that much (ie new people playing the game). 

I would say continue to hold onto the epics if you want with the idea that either 1) they might be upgrade-able in the future (much like the inferno hammer), or 2) once the mobile app gets introduced, there might be a whole new wave of players. 

Based on past experience with SE's, I don't think the "retiring" of titans really does much. If you look at the seasonal titans, their prices are only marginally better than normal titans. The main thing is that as new epics are introduced that replace older ones, the older ones drop in value. Once an item that has more stam gain per hour than another item is introduced, older items drop. 

I'm personally against it because I love the option of hunting titans whenever I want (whether it's cleaning up or not). If we retire titans, there needs to be a continual influx of titans to offset the ones that are "retired", otherwise, it kills another fun part of the game for me. 

Just my 2 cents - I'd rather see the current system stay the way it is versus the change. I appreciate the time that the OP had spent, but I'm personally not a fan of the idea. As stated by others, there are ways to lower your chances of being hit. Soemone has to be a defender for the creatures, right?

yw

 

Nice to see that some others can get some benefit from the entertainingly complex spreadsheets I used to construct to work out my hunting strategy.

Glad I'm not the only one who likes to create complex spreadsheets  

In terms of trying to find specific types of monsters, I've been using the Ultimate Fallensword Guide to search for the monster types, and balance where the monsters fall in terms of levels. Obviously trying to match drops (why not compose fragments while also doing some hunting), but also trying to find those monsters who will be in the first zone of a teleport area. 

For Champions: Leghra Fortress (Level 2) --> Leghra Recluse (Champion) --- you will need to use the Deathspinner Amulet I believe.

For Elites: Leghra Fortress (Level 3) --> Leghra Deathspinner (Elite) --- you will need to use the Deathspinner Sword I believe.

Welcome back Rye! Great to see you, and have you part of the guild. I don't think RP packs have been part of any discussions recently that I can recall. I think most discussions I had seen had been around activity, but haven't seen much that may have been updated on that front.