20 replies to this topic

[ernzor]

For too long PvP has been stagnant in this game, so lets give them some ideas to get things moving in a nice direction.

I will try to add ideas to this post as others post them. Try to keep things constructive guys, we have all heard the PvP is so unbalanced negativity before.

 

Balance

There are a few ways we can look at balancing PvP. Firstly, put group queue back in so that we can form our own teams, but keep it separate from the solo queue so as not to have a dominant team taking easy wins over unorganised groups.

 

After that we are left with the solo queue which doesn’t seem to do a good job most of the time and teams are very unbalanced. Perhaps ranking each player on their attribute spread (this will in effect rank them on levels too) and on their “main” class (determined by number of talents in a particular tree) we can get a semblance of balance in there.  More to come here, but am sure others have ideas too.

 

Maps

We need more of them.

 

You can even use some slightly modified existing areas, for example here is a modified great tree map.

 

 

I just mirrored the two protruding areas for spawn/flag and domination points. Spawning could be in little rooms similar to Draetols and you could come out one of the 3 doors in your spawn area.

 

There are probably other areas where someone can do similar too. For example:

 

To3

 

Tower of Noctis

Or even a Eldevin City map perhaps?

 

Also, new maps, from new places might be nice too.

 

Gametypes
The three gametypes now are fine, domination could do with an explanation for new players somewhere, but that is fine. We could also add in more gametypes to have more variety, obviously some ideas will be stolen from other games, but we could do things like VIP protection (have to keep random person on team alive), Round based single life, etc...

 

Rewards
Probably one thing that needs a lot of work.

There should be effort based rewards (kills in TDM and objective work in CTF/DOM) and random rewards (one person per team at end of game gets a random glimmering gem for example).

Again, more thought needed here.

 

Just trying to get some ideas moving around, will try keep this as updated as possible
 

[ComradeLewis]

None of these ideas are viable until they balance the classes. Assassins with a teleport, 3 sec stun, snare and silence is not counterable in any way, shape or form for most classes. If they attack first in a 1 on 1 fight, they win, period. That's not something that can exist and have any sort of functional PvP.

 

I understand the need for melee classes to have a distance closer skill, but it should not be instant, or if it does, it should absolutely not have snare and/or stun associated with it. Range should have it's benefits, just like melee has armor benefits. To nullify range completely is effectively nerfing all ranged classes due to lower armor values.

 

I have said this before, but considering it's been a year I'll say it again. PvP is so screwed up in this game that they should probably just abandon the idea at this point. Yeah, PvP holds max level players better than anything, but with a player base of 40-200 players, I am pretty sure it's just too late at this point. All focus should be put towards keeping those 20 or 30 new players a day to keep playing.

 

Sorry for muddying the thread, but if everything were to be fixed, yeah, I would love to have better PvP maps. I just don't think "fixed" is ever going to happen at this point. I mean, I came back after a year, and PvP is exactly the same as it was. Exactly! All they did was increase the valor points given.

Edited by ComradeLewis, 25 May 2015 - 06:43.

[PeasantJoe]

Assasin is ok its just noob class that easy to use and most people dont know how to counter it, good warrior, ranger, mage can defeat any time. I think best class for pvp is warrior with frenzy on its scary he will kill you before you can even move and his dots does more than assasins. If you want to be realy tryhard 1vs1 get best gear, use food/pot, get essence with saphire and cauterize yourself. If you want to play skillbased pvp games play dota2 or csgo. Here we just run 1 dungeon, gather some shit in TA and kill lowbies

[RISDMAC]

Rewards

Probably one thing that needs a lot of work.

There should be effort based rewards (kills in TDM and objective work in CTF/DOM) and random rewards (one person per team at end of game gets a random glimmering gem for example).

Again, more thought needed here.

 

 

Definitely in favour of boosting pvp rewards, they feel very stingy as it stands.

I think activating an objective in any of the game types should gain an increased bump in reward.

 

Kills in TDM

Flag captures/returns/denies in CTF

Point captures/denies in DOM

 

I know they each give feedback and ranking at the end of a match but this needs a buff in reward of some sort.

 

Also I wouldn't be against introducing some sort of MVP rank for each team in a game, the MVP could be rewarded with a randomised chest loot similar to PL - place cores/FP/glims as the common loot and add ele/inf flakes as the rarer drops.

 

Depending on the game type you could introduced ranked achievements per game:

For example TDM - Most damage dealt - +x valor at end of game

-Most damage taken - +x valor

- least deaths in game - +x valor

- God of war (no deaths in game) - +y valor

 

These are just offf the top of my head  and some probably arent suitable but you get the idea

 

In relation to balance, there isnt a huge amount that needs to be done IMO - yeah sins / warsins / warriors can be deadly 1v1 but team pvp introduces different aspects of teamwork and coordination required. Generally if I am playing against a particularly troublesome opponenet, a quick team message to get everyone to coordinate a joint attack on that person will overwhelm and allow you to steamroll them - just need the right team strategy.

 

The only thing I will say is prophets are the only class that dont have a teleportation/rush skill - yes I know someone can spec hybrid and grab miasmo but that is not possible for a pure prophet - I wouldnt be against miasmo being made into a purchasable skill and the mage talent tree adjusted accordingly, but prophets should get the option to have a similar tele/rush skill like other classes.

 

Team balancing definitely needs some love however and I quite like the proposed team group option.

[luke94]

 

None of these ideas are viable until they balance the classes. Assassins with a teleport, 3 sec stun, snare and silence is not counterable in any way, shape or form for most classes. If they attack first in a 1 on 1 fight, they win, period. That's not something that can exist and have any sort of functional PvP.

Sins only have the better "starting rotation" than the other classes as everything is instant apart from jolt.. they don't win all the time if they attack first.

 

I'm all for any updates in regards to PvP it's pretty much all i ever have done ingame and by that i mean levelled from 25 or so to 45 stopping at the occassional level to get new set gear.

 

> Any new maps for PvP would be a nice change instead of the same old repetitive three.. and with maps such as the to3 map with N sides - if there ever was more population could have N seperate teams (4v4v4 for example).

 

> As for group queueing i'd love for this to come back.. however i feel a group of N or so low levels could hit the group queue and then go up against all higher levels and then turn away from pvp for good.

 

 

Overall, I know HCS has said PvP is not the main priority for them, but somewhere along the line it would be nice to see some things changed

EDIT: a new game type could be selectional FFA.. take for example the tower of noctis map,6 sides (excluding entrance).. each team nominates one person to hop inside the circle with the colours, the 6 people nominated fight it out and gain one point for their team if they win.. also you are unaware of who the other teams have selected until you are in the circle and see the other combatants.. only a quick suggestion on new game mode.

Edited by luke94, 25 May 2015 - 12:44.

[Medi3vil]

where is the Chickens?   

[ComradeLewis]

Oh, I realized that they did make a change for PvP in the last year. They nerfed Holy Vengeance so that when a Prophet is attacked by someone that is not an assassin, they can't run away anymore. Good job HC. I admit that the skill made winning CTF pretty easy, but they could have just disabled it when you had the flag.

 

I really can't see how anyone can say that assassins are balanced at all. A 3 second stun followed by silence and snare means 1/2 of your HP is gone before you even start fighting. Effectively, your starting each fight with 1/2 your HP against a full HP player, every time if you don't have your own teleport and stun skill.

Edited by ComradeLewis, 25 May 2015 - 15:32.

[PeasantJoe]

i dont know how other classes perform against prophet but as assasin i dont have much problems the only thing they have is upgraded repent which is sometimes anoing since you can do nothink for 10s and have spammable serenity which is ok. For assasin be clever and dont fight prophet on repent unless hes is shit and you can kill him with it, same goes against warrior if he have frenzy on you will have very low chance to land jolt before he adrenaline rush you, you can also try eclipse him when warrior adrenaline rush with frenzy, you get stuned but he not and you get some distance from him but this not always work you need good timing so its not safe

[luke94]

on a side note since this is to do with PvP and is suggestions...

 

can we make it so you can't use a homestone or any means to teleport outside TA whilst on the island?

[PeasantJoe]

on a side note since this is to do with PvP and is suggestions...

 

can we make it so you can't use a homestone or any means to teleport outside TA whilst on the island?

homestone is ok if you get hit cant use it, but Dragon which can be unlocked with 250ep you can use it even if you get hit in TA and some players like Hidulphus using it. Prety much make tank build gather tons of resources and if you get attacked use dragon to escape

[ComradeLewis]

Pots and Food should not disappear upon death in PvP. Rich players already have a gem advantage, this just increases the gulf between the elite and normal players in an unreasonable way.

 

The other huge problem with PvP is an indirect result of PvE. There are no high level dungeons with bosses that have ranged attacks. Therefore, those that have run dungeons for the last 2 years have invested in melee and spell defense very heavily. With the addition of ASV and ICC players have invested heavily in opals due to those bosses having magic attacks. I have inspected several players that have all of their sockets as opals. So, recently there is a huge boom in magic defense, which skews PvP to be very disadvantageous to spell casters. The obvious solution would be to have the final boss of the level 50 dungeon to have a ranged attack. This may skew PvP to be disadvantageous to rangers, but considering the investment time put into onyx originally, and then opals post level 47 content, it has the best chance of evening out.

 

However, I have very little hope left. For years this game has been in development with 3 basic attack types in it, yet the developers have been clueless as to evening them out. All WB are either melee or spell casters. All dungeons past boondocks are melee and spell casters (can you think of any exceptions?). Furthermore, this sort of thing is much, much more obvious when developing the dungeon, than playing it. I can't help but think that the developers just don't know their own game at this point. HC, Boondocks is the level 10 dungeon, if you don't know.

Edited by ComradeLewis, 25 May 2015 - 18:49.

[ernzor]

All classes have their pro/cons, am not saying it is perfect, but it is no where near as bad as people say it is. Take time to learn good rotations and how to counter other classes and you can do just fine.

[ComradeLewis]

 

The only thing I will say is prophets are the only class that dont have a teleportation/rush skill - yes I know someone can spec hybrid and grab miasmo but that is not possible for a pure prophet - I wouldnt be against miasmo being made into a purchasable skill and the mage talent tree adjusted accordingly, but prophets should get the option to have a similar tele/rush skill like other classes.

 

We had a talent called Holy Vengeance. They changed it from a purely PvP talent to a mostly PvE talent. So, now we have nothing with regards to positioning. If I gain an advantage in the fight, the other guy runs away until my good skills are on cooldown. There is no way to chase a guy down unless you have a better mount and you can get 1 good shot off to finish the guy.

Edited by ComradeLewis, 26 May 2015 - 17:57.

[redsmokeboy]

In regard's to use opal - dimond's - onyx cap for defance now set at 75% put limited scale look at not sure what normal user non tank would need reach cap. on all 3 can reach cap right now 1 skil used 5 slot's with 1 gem typ. supream or so.

Leve mele - range open for easyer killing, Probly be possible reach all 3 cap with around flawless - Perfect gem set up.

 

As for PvP map - rewards very much needed at some thing difernent.

Final exmplale's of PvP maps's grand tree - and Acsend area. 2 maps look like make some perty lobely game space.

Other place bit larger would need tweeking would be brocken shore. possible Blossom rige.

 

curnent reward sys not usefull, valor gain's 100% regardless if do any thing or simple stand around AFK.

At same time very on game limited on what can do as team get better reward's.

Valor usage glem gem's - Mount - vanite.

what is there to use valor on or main point even get valor start with.

 

as side from acvemnt's take forever complete very on class as spec.

working on few right now, 2000 game's done 805 mostly spaming world get people to join match, 33 valor lvl = nothing considering rank has no useage or meaning.

 

Update to Valor ranking sys oer some kind of bonus to pvp match, every 10 pvp lvl's as acvemnt is gain some kind of bonus so more reason gain valor lvl's so forth.

 

More.......

[ComradeLewis]

It use to be the only way to get the vanity set. Now it's much, much, much easier to mine 50 coal a day and just log off until tomorrow. This is clearly the result of trying to make everyone happy (those that want valor points but don't like PvP), and ruining it for everyone. Since they ruined it for those that like PvP, they should give us a way to get dungeon relics without running dungeons. See how stupid that sounds in writing?

 

It's pretty clear that there is a long line of bad decisions that resulted in the current game state. Maybe I'll get another private message from a developer, warning me not to post critical posts about the development of the game, but isn't that what should be done when the max population is 200 players 2 years in?

Edited by ComradeLewis, 27 May 2015 - 03:03.

[NerdyNeko]

I really can't see how anyone can say that assassins are balanced at all. A 3 second stun followed by silence and snare means 1/2 of your HP is gone before you even start fighting. Effectively, your starting each fight with 1/2 your HP against a full HP player, every time if you don't have your own teleport and stun skill.

3 second stun? Eclipse stun is 2 second, Lobotomize stun is 2,5 seconds with 6 stacks. Mage can use Ignite instantly with 3 sec stun and Despair with 5 sec silence. both are insta skills plus despair is aoe silence too and if you are at melee range you can use frostbite to snare oppoment for 6 seconds. so.. if sin gets half hp from oppoment then shouldnt this be all sins hp by that logic?

[Akalas]

3 second stun? Eclipse stun is 2 second, Lobotomize stun is 2,5 seconds with 6 stacks. Mage can use Ignite instantly with 3 sec stun and Despair with 5 sec silence. both are insta skills plus despair is aoe silence too and if you are at melee range you can use frostbite to snare oppoment for 6 seconds. so.. if sin gets half hp from oppoment then shouldnt this be all sins hp by that logic?

 

Does stun into silence even work this way intentionally? I always thought it's a bug hence why you can't do it the other way around

[aliadnan12]

Does stun into silence even work this way intentionally? I always thought it's a bug hence why you can't do it the other way around

it works both ways , tried it many times and always worked both ways

[ernzor]

Bump, can we get some love for PvP please!

[ordinaryfunguy]

i luv pvp, well, i got an idea. we should have like a duel (1v1) what i mean is you know how you like invite people in a group, instead of like that, you invite them to have a duel, so you can duel anywhere. the battle stops when the person got 1hp left or something or if they give up.sucks you cant actually "kill" the opponent though but itll be fun. or the duel stops when one dies. but when resurrected, no repair fee and no deaths door. pvping in different terrains should be fun since you can hide under rocks or behind trees etc.