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New PvP Ladder Items!


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#21 Kedyn

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:25

That reaction before even checking recipes.

 

Nothing wrong with buying arena crystalline items to invent new sets.. for now item worth 5 fsp instead of 1 fsp which is good for market and whole game.

 

By that mentality, wouldn't it also be fair to say that new arena recipes should require PVP ladder resources to invent?

 

I understand the idea of mixing and combining multiple areas of the game to create the items, however, it's only beneficial for Arena Players on the Ladder with lots of tokens. I wouldn't say it's better for the whole game. 



#22 johnagod

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:34

By that mentality, wouldn't it also be fair to say that new arena recipes should require PVP ladder resources to invent?

 

I understand the idea of mixing and combining multiple areas of the game to create the items, however, it's only beneficial for Arena Players on the Ladder with lots of tokens. I wouldn't say it's better for the whole game. 

 

 

Well if you think about it, arena token items aren't bound and, thus, available to all players in the game, even if it does cost a few fsps for people on the ladder who are inventing the new items. This *could* raise the activity in the arena, slightly. Also all the previous ladder sets like augilts, sir gwans, etc. all required LE items as ingredients. Nothing too expensive usually but still, those items are only available to those who either hunt them or keep them in their BPs for a long long time



#23 Dulcharn

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:39

I think it's a brilliant idea to get more players involved in the Ladder and the Arena in this way.

 

Pardoux and Kittles will start playing more in these aspects of the game! :)

 

However, see shindrak's comment on stat combo.



#24 tuvok77

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:51

arena items needed for those? Kthxbye...

Not interesting for the likes of me...



#25 johnagod

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:55

arena items needed for those? Kthxbye...

Not interesting for the likes of me...

 

If it wasn't arena items it would be normal LE event items, which would be even rarer to come across.



#26 Pardoux

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 22:06

Just seems a little odd to me that there is a game anomaly here, which "favours" those with ladder tokens ...

Let me explain.

Arena :- Win tokens (bound), buy resources (unbound), buy gear / buy potions (unbound)

Ladder :- Win tokens (bound), buy resources (BOUND), make gear / buy potions (unbound)

Given that arena resources (or the items they're derived from) are unbound, why aren't the same items from the ladder ?

Ergo :-

 

Ladder players can make items that require arena resources - and thus don't need to do arena

Arena players CAN'T make items that require ladder resources - and thus need to do the ladder too, or buy the invented item.


Homer : Marge, don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals .. except the weasel.

 

Eddie Izzard : The National Rifle Association say that guns don't kill people, people do. But I think the gun helps, you know ? I think it helps. I think just standing there going "BANG" - that's not going to kill too many people, is it ?

 

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but it seems that everything I eat lately turns to poo ...


#27 DomCorvis

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 22:26

arena items needed for those? Kthxbye...
Not interesting for the likes of me...


hmmmm you wanted new/better gear...but didnt want to level....you get given gear...still complain....you can buy the arena items for fairly cheap....OR god forbid....play the arena...you get tokens for losing now....so its not hard to get arena tokens....you seem like you want a golden spoon feeding you...

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#28 Egami

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 00:31

hope the inventor chest does not work on saving resources and items to invent them, this should be taken into account, inventor, inventor 2

 

As long as your suggestion goes throughout all game aspects, I'd think about it and then say a resounding "No". 

 

Grant it, I've only used it twice on FS wide inventing events. 

 

That aside: the pot cost $60 and is income for HCS. So, uh, no, no, and double no. 

 

Is there any way to really cap the buff level? Currently, prices will be higher due to them being new and lack of crystaline items (once you release them, they price will drop). However, the inventing chests really have crushed the economics of the game - a player could create 10-20 pieces on maybe half the materials needed. Please check Gnarled Scarab epics as an example. Let's not repeat those please. 

 

And? The economics of the game are not crushed by an inventing chest. Economics is based on supply and demand. Again, the Omacaz costs $60. 

 

I'm really getting tired of people talking about economics like they actually know something about it. So apologies out to Ked, since I quoted... this is not out to him but hopefully out to anybody who really doesn't understand how economics work.

 

I'm going to use Gnarled ONLY because it was used in the quote. A pot that cost $60 was introduced into the game. This did increase the possibility of inventing more and, based on the higher supply, notably dropped prices in game. 

 

And?

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you are arguing against.

 

What adds to the drop in price is also natural. I have access to something better and add my Gnarled to the AH. More supply, lower price. 

 

The "problem" in my eye is that people think they should buy something and get the same amount back. Just silly.

 

Many areas will benefit from it...It is in popular opinion that omacraz potion ruined the game. To start fixing the market, start with adding risk back to inventing :).

Sorry, I don't think "omacraz" was what ruined the game. I doubt you can speak for the majority. If you feel that way... post a poll. 

 

Nerf inventing to "fix" the market? Sorry, market isn't broken. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how supply and demand is broken. 

 

Items are only 20 tokens each, which isn't a lot at all. I think combining the rewards from different aspects of the game is a great idea.

 

I think leveling should require a certain amount of PvP. 

 

Yeah, tongue-in-cheek. 

 

That said, I get the legendary inventing mix. My "feeling" at this point is that requiring PvP Arena and Ladder for one item isn't very productive. 

 

Nothing wrong with buying arena crystalline items to invent new sets.. for now item worth 5 fsp instead of 1 fsp which is good for market and whole game.

 

shin, love ya babe... But coming from the top Arena player in all of FS (congrats from the heart babe, you rock!), I think we have to take it with a grain of salt ,oP

 

Using arena items benefits arena players as well as ladder players. Not only does this provide something to work for, for ladder players but it also gives us arena players something to (finally) spend our tokens on that will earn us a small bit of profit (hopefully :P )

Having to use arena items does NOT benefit me as a Ladder player.

 

As far as profit... well, again... There is a ton of confusion here. I'd suggest FS get on the boat and use "worthwhile" instead of "profitable". For me, there is nothing "profitable" in game. "Worthwhile" better reflects the personal opinion that everyone uses.

 

The only aspect that can achieve "profit" from FS is HCS. I'd hope they do so we'll still be around.

 

Anyway, thanks HCS for the new Ladder items. I haven't even bothered to look at them... but the additions are good. Maybe some others here made some relevant suggestions on stats. I don't know.

 

Prosperous smacking everybody! (o0



#29 NIBIRU

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 01:20

kind of disappointed by the 1000 set , 50 durability? I like the look, but its useless after a few rounds.. and whats going on with pvp spirit and the trophy?? kind of taken my space at this point, can I get a new epic with that ?? 



#30 Kedyn

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 01:50


 

 

And? The economics of the game are not crushed by an inventing chest. Economics is based on supply and demand. Again, the Omacaz costs $60. 

 

I'm really getting tired of people talking about economics like they actually know something about it. So apologies out to Ked, since I quoted... this is not out to him but hopefully out to anybody who really doesn't understand how economics work.

 

I'm going to use Gnarled ONLY because it was used in the quote. A pot that cost $60 was introduced into the game. This did increase the possibility of inventing more and, based on the higher supply, notably dropped prices in game. 

 

And?

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you are arguing against.

 

What adds to the drop in price is also natural. I have access to something better and add my Gnarled to the AH. More supply, lower price. 

 

The "problem" in my eye is that people think they should buy something and get the same amount back. Just silly.

 

Sorry Egami, but here I have to disagree. The pot "costs" $60 to someone, yes. However, for 150-200 FSP I can buy the same chest as people sell them for the extra dots they can get as they may not have use for the chest. Is there a limited supply of the chests? Yes, but with the offers HCS has been offering recently for $60 purchase, you can pick that chest almost each and every time a person would donate.

 

As for supply and demand, yes you are correct. There has to be a demand for the supply, otherwise price drops so that equilibrium is reached. What I'm saying is that those chests make the supply go up higher faster. Sure, those epics became cheaper as the supply increased, and demand has gone down.  As I stated in my posts, there were other factors playing into the drop of price, but I want to say one of the bigger factors to a higher supply was the potions.

 

The original time the items were dropped, they were expensive, as with any new gear and the new sets. Demand is greater than supply, which means price is higher than equilibrium. The second round, the prices dropped, based both on more people farming the scarab items, more people taking the risk to inventing and access to the chests. The biggest issue with the Gnarled items is that the Omacaz chest adds 28.75% to the chance to invent an item successfully, which is almost 1.5x the original % of the invention rate. Take a 20% inventing chance (1 in 5) and turn it to almost 50% (1 in 2), that's a huge difference in inventing. 

 

I can't speak to the % increase of INV2, as I'm not sure the % of saving, but if that also increases with the level, then that creates a higher supply if you save the biggest piece of the inventing - the Gnarled Spike. It's a huge boost to the supply piece of supply and demand. With a decreasing demand, and increasing supply, then price drops, which is why they priced as low as they are.

 

Sure there hasn't been a huge increase in demand by new influx of players, but there really doesn't need to be. In terms of stamina gain, there aren't many items that are all that much better "upgrades" to those pieces - outside of higher leveled items. It actually probably hurt the value of epics that are equal in stamina gain a little (outside of level restrictions and arena use), as you could get the same stamina gain with cheaper epics than titan hunted/GVG invented epics.

 

 

I never expect to recoup my costs most items that I buy - there have been a few that I got lucky on that were discontinued back in the day.



#31 sweetlou

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:00

I'm totally unimpressed! It's overkill on the rewards perishability! 50 durabilty on crystal? On top of that you want the Ladder to help resurrect the Arena? Just another slap in the PvPers face. It ain't gonna work. You should have made Epic stam gear perishable!! I thought the purpose of these rewards was to create an incentive to play the Ladder? Epic fail with the first round of junk potions that are WAY too expensive. The exception was Hoofs cloak and Prestige pots. Prestige pots were redundant though. Why can't you follow those types of rewards? The rest of this new gear you might as well put in the junk drawer with the old gear!

 

Edit: Whoever designed these latest rewards has no idea what it takes to come in first on a competitive Ladder. Not to mention the issue with the 25-249 Ladder.


Edited by sweetlou, 10 September 2015 - 02:29.

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#32 Egami

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 03:52

Sorry Egami, but here I have to disagree. The pot "costs" $60 to someone, yes. However, for 150-200 FSP I can buy the same chest as people sell them for the extra dots they can get as they may not have use for the chest. Is there a limited supply of the chests? Yes, but with the offers HCS has been offering recently for $60 purchase, you can pick that chest almost each and every time a person would donate.

Really no reason to say "sorry". Debate is always positive.  I actually pretty much agree with everything else you posted in #30. I definitely don't disagree with the "impact" on prices. The thing there is that I don't care. That is, admittedly, pretty frivolous. 

 

However, what is more important to me: I will also backstep, because I WAS WRONG to say that the potion costs $60. I realize that was completely incorrect as a person donating $60 gets the potion plus a good portion of FSP. 



#33 yghorbeviahn

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:27

I kinda like the idea of mixing multiple areas of the game to invent an item, but that will only work if that is only the top of the iceberg that should come.

For now Ladder players (like me) really have an advantage over Arena players, since we can invent the items and they don't, since our resources are Bound, and Arena resources are not...But Arena players can sell for a bigger price now, which is good for them too.

I hope in the future we see more of this involving SE drops, RP Resources, LE Gear and even Titan Epics, mixing all up to make things.

What about the idea of introducing inventable Ladder potions? 
I think we could also use recipes for AL, CSV and LIB lvl700 using Titan Drops.



#34 Calista

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:36

It makes no sense to force ladder players to now buy arena items or play the arena in order to do anything. I appreciate that HCS is trying to give us some much needed updates. But there probably should have been a poll or something before this was done. Hopefully the rewards to come will only require ladder players to use ladder rewards.


 


#35 tuvok77

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:28

hmmmm you wanted new/better gear...but didnt want to level....you get given gear...still complain....you can buy the arena items for fairly cheap....OR god forbid....play the arena...you get tokens for losing now....so its not hard to get arena tokens....you seem like you want a golden spoon feeding you...

 

I was looking forward to some gear that could be used in GvG aswell... sadly that is not the case, the lvl 135 set doesnt outdo the gladiators set and I wished they had made at least a gloves/shield or gloves/armour set with said stats. Right now that crystalline set will only be good for those people who play arena. OR pvp players who want to slightly compete by by switching setups more often than not. THat lvl 135 set is just like the lvl 160 centurion set, costly unneeded set that has very very few uses. I had hoped to have some more LE  sets that use existing Ladder LE items so its like building up on the existing ladder gear. Right now this Crystalline gear will be market flooded by all those players who have  thousands of tokens (I have around 250 pvp tokens myself)  + will give the dominant Arena players the chance to make a quick buck. I cant remember when I last joined a PVP arena, but theres few around lvl 100-199, and if you take a look at the arena, 10% of participants are usually non-ladder-pros, the rest is the same faces swapping up their close kept secret of Arena gear and fighting it out between each other.



#36 BigGrim

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:18

Hey there.

Glad to see that the majority of players like how the new Ladder Sets are going. Just wanted to say that there's nothing to stop us from using Super Elite and Realm or Cave based LE parts in the invention too. You'll also notice that the cost of each part of a set is hard capped at 20 tokens. We feel that is nice and fair.

Regarding the durability of 50, we'd be happy to put up an in-game poll to raise it to 75 instead if that would help with the 'desirability' of the sets.

Additionally, we'd be happy to unbind the resources bought from the Ladder Reward pages if the Community feels that would help?

~ Grim

#37 DomCorvis

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:35

do NOT unbind ladder rewards...you tried thi before...didnt end well...as for durability...you want lower durability( the idea was so it gets destroyed quickly and must be replaced often...UB will slow the destruction a bit), i mean im sure most will want 75 vs 50 but i would stick with 50...

also i like needing other resources outside of the ladder...i like trying to figure out the arena, i like using parts from other aspects of the game...





tuvok-if you cant find a way to integrate gear thats a personal problem...you claim to be some great gvg'r but cant even build a proper set to beat lvl 200 sets(your own words)....




im tired of seeing all the "i want, i want, i want" and when the cows give it to us, its ALL complaints afterwards....BG/HCS keep it coming, im loving the fresh updates and gear coming

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#38 Undjuvion

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 11:50

the thing with the durability is 50 looks small, on average you prob dont make more than 10 or 15 hits on the average ladder i play pretty much at the max, then how many ladders would u need to finish first in to replace it is the question, how quickly on average would it bust, prob need a few maths guys to give an average to see if 50 is practical when used via ladder, you would wanna replace it before it busts in most cases :)



#39 Kedyn

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:46

Hey there.

Glad to see that the majority of players like how the new Ladder Sets are going. Just wanted to say that there's nothing to stop us from using Super Elite and Realm or Cave based LE parts in the invention too. You'll also notice that the cost of each part of a set is hard capped at 20 tokens. We feel that is nice and fair.

Regarding the durability of 50, we'd be happy to put up an in-game poll to raise it to 75 instead if that would help with the 'desirability' of the sets.

Additionally, we'd be happy to unbind the resources bought from the Ladder Reward pages if the Community feels that would help?

~ Grim

 

Hey Grim,

 

While including arena items in the recipes is fine, it kind of forced players to be able to do both sides (PVP and arena), where some players may not want to participate. However, you really forced the hand here as there really are no other recipes outside of the PVP items now that require PVP tokens. It's not like you are trying to coerce arena players to PVP because they need a PVP resource to make an arena item set, or GVG or normal invention set. Am I against making the PVP items unbound? I don't think so, but I think it's a good way to try to get players to "test" out the PVP ladder.

 

In the future, I'd love to see more recipes that span multiple areas of the game (GVG, titans, arena, PVP, LE's, etc). Hopefully, in the future we also make it a little more difficult to create these recipes (as for reasons mentioned earlier regarding buff levels) and to require more goods (ie how Gnarled Spike is a 20% invent rate) that are farmed or hunted by players. 

 

I would hope that the updates for these recipes continue and that we'll be able to see some more new shiny sets out in the world. Personally, I like the idea of stamina gain on the items - as it allows players to see in a better offline set while also being able to stay semi-protected when buffed in GVG/PVP. 

 

I hope to see these new recipes and sets spreading out into the other areas of the game as well, which will definitely increase player activity as people want to try to "Cash" in on inventing or farming items needed to invent.

 

Thanks, 



#40 Calista

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 13:43

When are we going to see Arena players needing Ladder rewards to do anything?


 



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