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Potential Balance Changes - Buffs


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#21 Tilley10

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 13:34

I agree with the majority of the proposed changes.

 

I disagree that Fortitude should be changed to work with armor, though I would love to see an Armor counterpart to the buff. I think swapping the way Fortitude itself works would only make Armor as powerful as Defense currently is. Having the same effect for either stat would likely be more balanced, although Armor/HP would still be much more powerful than Defense/HP ever was.

 

I think Fumble should be nerfed, and Flinch left alone. Fumble works only on defending players, while Flinch works the same for both.

 

Many of the imbalances in the game comes from lack of gear. The last Attack/Armor Legendary or better set is at 3400, while Defense sets have legendary variants close to EOC.

 

I think the Balanced rework sounds great, not only would it be more viable but also changes up some possible metas which would be fun to learn.

 

I'll post some ideas here if I have them, but for now this looks good.

We would have to run some numbers to see how strong a Fortitude for Armor would be. I understand the hesitance!

 

The gear imbalance would be another topic to discuss. I know we have a plethora of Attack/Defense sets and not a whole lot of Attack/Armor to counter those. This needs to be brought up, for sure.

 

Yes, the group really wanted to make the Balanced buffs viable (they currently are not). Would open up some more creativity with set building!

 

I don't think these suggested changes are benefitting one person. 

 

It's safe to say there is a problem when someone becomes unbeatable with a high-level dispel, flinch, and fumble. 

 

I agree with the nerfs to the dispel, fumble, and flinch. The flinch + fumble combo is a bit unbalanced, especially with fumble 202 now a possibility. 

 

As for the balanced attack/defense buffs, this is probably the best suggestion I have seen to make them useful. 

 

I think assist could be changed for something else than finding more drops. I believe there are already plenty of buffs that improve the drop rate. 

Thank you for your feedback! Would love to hear your input on how to change Assist. Our goal was to make it more useful/viable as it currently doesn't serve any purpose.

 

The Count hit nail on head referring to gear beyond lvl 3400. The problem with the whole PvP side of the game is essentially that depending on your level dictates what type of set up wins. Lower levels it is predominantly about Armour, 3900+ it is about Defence. There isn't anything particularly fun about it to attract the masses, there needs to be way more adaptability in the buffs available that means you do not have one trick ponies hogging the ladder. Just my two pennies worth, PvP 'could' be interesting, but as is it is a little lame. To counter the epic pots which are here to stay, there should be a 100% fist fight, also tame down deflect by big chunks and scrap anti deflect altogether. The list could go on forever.

I am all for changing the "meta" when it comes to sets being worn. As I told TheCount above, gear needs to be discussed at some point to allow more options for everyone.

 

I'm a little hesitant for a 100% Fist Fight buff myself. But, it could be explored. Again, these replies are just my opinions and I would like to hear from everyone!

 

A Deflect nerf would be amazing (I might be biased as I PvP a lot). We need to keep Anti-Deflect as long as Deflect is still around.

 

I agree with most of these changes.

I agree with most of these changes too

Thank you both for the feedback!



#22 Bujon

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 18:47

Yeah 100% fist fight is a tad extreme, was making a point. I think your suggested rebalances in OP are fairly well considered, but you do need to consider all levels of players and also any negative impact they may have. Ultimately if I read you right, the aim is to have a more challenging, but equally fair playing field in particularly around PvP. I am all for that. Why play drafts when you can play chess :-) But playing chess against someone who wishes to play drafts is no fun, neither is playing chess against someone who has been gifted 3 queen's (by way of crazy epic pots). Plenty of food for thought.

Be sure to feed back any traction you get.

#23 michael65

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Posted 25 March 2021 - 00:12

Hello people of FS!
A group of players have recently come together to discuss a few existing buffs from the vast Udder land and wanted to see what other people thought (including the Devs!) on these ideas. While I understand these are mainly used for the PvP aspects of the game, it is in our minds that slight tweaks to these buffs could potentially help stimulate these aspects to be more enjoyable for a larger portion of the community. Without further delay, here are some of the changes that have been discussed:


won't some of these changes affect low level players in low level guilds? negatively? especially when competing against high level guilds?


Dispel Curse:Dispel Curse (First iteration): 0.2% > 0.1% chance per point that Dark Curse will not work against you (PvP only)

some players need current % bc rely on 2 or more buffs activating to get result
 
Dispel Curse (Second Iteration): 0.1% per point reduction to the effectiveness of Dark Curse.

2nd DisC weakens DC that is similar to example for change.


Reasoning: Dispel Curse can currently reach 100% activation rate with the right potion - which can be quite strong in PvP combat. A reduction of its activation rate or a rework of its mechanic would be more fair for PvP in general. While having the ability to negate a buff like “Dark Curse” is good on paper, the buff, as it is, can be used more as a “100% wincon” crutch when used with other buffs later seen here. The first iteration listed would reduce the effectiveness by half, but the second would just halve the effectiveness of “Dark Curse.”

 
-----------------
Assist
 
+0.05% chance per point that an ally, up to 25 levels above you (+1 level per point), assists you in combat vs. Creatures. Ally adds 50% of their Attack, Defense, Damage, Armor and Health >>> +0.05% chance per point that an ally, up to 25 levels above you boosts +0.1% per point to drop rate of Creatures.

turn assist into a drop buff. really?


 
Reasoning: Assist’s current iteration remains rarely used. This change would make Assist a more attractive use and a better defined role in the buff list. As it is with all of the composed and epic potions around, people aren’t hurting for the stats they could gain from Assist.
 
------------------------------
 
Trendy
 
+0.05% per point added to your Attack, Defense, Armor, HP and Damage for each piece of equipped gear that is Common, Rare or Unique. If the piece of equipped gear is Super Elite, gain +0.025% per point instead.
 
common usually don't have sets. super elite sets are too powerful. would count rare and unique sets twice: 1. new trendy 2. SH KE SW ArmBoo

Reasoning: For something so Trendy, this buff rarely sees the light of day. With this change, the use of the buff would be expanded to enable gears not called Legendary to have more of a say in many areas of the game.
 
----------------------------------------------------------
Flinch
 
0.1% > 0.05% per point to enemy Attack
 
someone suggested leave flinch alone and adjust fumble. +1

Reasoning: Flinch + Fumble combo is currently too strong in PvP (as a defender). Reducing one, or both, would make attacking into it a less flinching experience.-------------------------------------
 
Fumble
 
0.1% > 0.05% per point reduction to attacker's Attack when successfully defending (PvP only, excludes Relic Combat)
 
Reasoning: Flinch + Fumble combo is currently too strong in PvP (as a defender). Reducing one, or both, would make players fumble a little less when attacking into it.
 
--------------------------------------Invigorate
 
+0.01% >>> +0.025% per point added to your Attack, Defense, Armor, HP and Damage for each piece of gear equipped that is Epic
 
Reasoning: A little buff would hurt nobody. Just like Trendy, this change would make this buff more attractive in general.--------------------------------------Balanced Attack and Defense
Balanced Attack: +0.05% per point to Attack and Damage if every piece of equipped gear is the same level >>> Complete Attack: Gain 0.05% per point to Attack and Damage if all equipment worn is part of a complete set.

 
is this needed? and if you want new buffs, ask for new buffs.

Balanced Defense: +0.05% per point to Defense and Armor if every piece of equipped gear is the same level >>> Complete Defense: Gain 0.05% per point to Armor and Defense if all equipment worn is part of a complete set
 
Reasoning: In their current iteration, the Balanced buffs are too hard to execute and their bonus is insignificant. This change would make the buff’s bonuses to be more easily accessible.
 
Example of Reworked Buff: If you are wearing 4 two-piece sets and 1 filler item, you WOULD NOT be granted the bonus of balanced buffs. If you are wearing 3 two-piece sets and 1 three-piece set, you WOULD be granted the bonus. The easy way to remember this would be: Do I havea filler, an epic, or any piece of gear where I’m not being granted a set bonus? If the answer is “yes,” then you aren’t getting the bonus from the buffs.--------------------------------------
 
Brute Strength 
 
Enchant Weapon, Fury and Berserk buffs are increased by +1 level when cast for every 20 points in this skill. >>>>Enchanted buffs and Cursed Buffs are increased by +1 level when cast for every 20 points in this skill (also applies to Iron Fist).
 
Reasoning: All three of the buffs this buff enhances are available at a higher level in potion form and at a cheap price, making this very niche, if not borderline useless. By changing the buffs it affects, it remains niche but much more attractive.--------------------------------------
 
Disclaimer: This is not financial advice - we just like the stock.
 
+1

If you’re still here, feel free to discuss, and I ask you, please come in with input; I want to hear outside perspectives on these as well; perhaps they could could change my outlook as well on some of these current buffs. After all, we all just want to see FS thrive!



#24 Arioche

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Posted 26 March 2021 - 11:49

Thank you for those who have taken part in this thread to share their ideas about current buffs in the game  :)  It has allowed me to put together talk points for the team. As already communicated, we are working to getting the bugs fixed first before we can move onto anything like this, so I hope you can bear with us in the meantime!

 

 

Hello people of FS!

A group of players have recently come together to discuss a few existing buffs from the vast Udder land and wanted to see what other people thought (including the Devs!) on these ideas. While I understand these are mainly used for the PvP aspects of the game, it is in our minds that slight tweaks to these buffs could potentially help stimulate these aspects to be more enjoyable for a larger portion of the community. Without further delay, here are some of the changes that have been discussed:

 

A number of your proposed changes sound really interesting! I'd like to go over them with the team in the upcoming week so they can chime in with their thoughts and ideas  :) The Flinch + Fumble combo seems to be one of biggest concerns at the moment, so we'll make sure to carefully look over that.

 

Many of the imbalances in the game comes from lack of gear. The last Attack/Armor Legendary or better set is at 3400, while Defense sets have legendary variants close to EOC.

 

The Count hit nail on head referring to gear beyond lvl 3400. The problem with the whole PvP side of the game is essentially that depending on your level dictates what type of set up wins. Lower levels it is predominantly about Armour, 3900+ it is about Defence. There isn't anything particularly fun about it to attract the masses, there needs to be way more adaptability in the buffs available that means you do not have one trick ponies hogging the ladder. 

More variety in sets is something we'd like to look into. A good opportunity for incentives to made for some neglected areas of the game  :) 

Thank you once again for the feedback!



#25 DARKELITE1

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Posted 26 March 2021 - 23:58

Thank you for this thread! I like a lot of these changes also. Not too sure about the flinch change but I'm all for trying it out. May be in for some trial and error in the short term which is all good. Imo what really needs to be addressed is the ridiculous pots we know have that make PvP more of whos got what. Im sure this has been brought up before but maybe not the right forum to readress this. I like the proposed changes to the buffs tho, thumbs up.


Edited by DARKELITE1, 26 March 2021 - 23:58.


#26 Arioche

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 11:05

Good morning everyone!

We've had some conversations about some of the buffs that you guys are concerned about. At the moment we are going to focus on Fumble and Deflect. We picked out these two as they seem to be the biggest concern.

 

I want to stress that we intend to create a trial period wherein we will review how these buffs perform and for a chance for players to give their feedback on these changes. This will go for any balance adjustment that we intend to make in the future. It's not too late to reverse a decision or change it further  :)

 

I do have one question to propose to the playerbase however: What are your thoughts on Titan Doubler? As it stands, 5x Titan Doubler will now be possible, and I would like to gather further opinions on this.

 

We are still working through a number of bugs, so I only ask that you bear with us.

 

Thank you! 



#27 EpicPiety

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 12:54

Good morning everyone!

We've had some conversations about some of the buffs that you guys are concerned about. At the moment we are going to focus on Fumble and Deflect. We picked out these two as they seem to be the biggest concern.

 

I want to stress that we intend to create a trial period wherein we will review how these buffs perform and for a chance for players to give their feedback on these changes. This will go for any balance adjustment that we intend to make in the future. It's not too late to reverse a decision or change it further  :)

 

I do have one question to propose to the playerbase however: What are your thoughts on Titan Doubler? As it stands, 5x Titan Doubler will now be possible, and I would like to gather further opinions on this.

 

We are still working through a number of bugs, so I only ask that you bear with us.

 

Thank you! 

Hi Arioche, i very much agree with those two buffs that you picked out. Fumble is a fairly new buff so i'm certain the trial will go smoothly. 

Titan Doubler 5x will further dilute titan hunting, as it stands a titan with a few people on it can die rather quickly with 4x. 

 

In addition to Titan Doubler please look into Unbreakable. UB200 is 100% activation and traditionally this was a reward from loyalty and scavenging caves. If we are able to cast UB200 100% it will further nerf the scavenging cave and loyalty points.



#28 winemaker

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 14:21

x5 titan doubler sounds great, we are so far past titan hunting being a guild active now that speeding up the clean up sounds great. Only ones it will hunt are the ones that can and do secure it all the time. for the rest of us clean up titan hunters or just seasonal  hunters anything to get it past the pain if having to deal with the script hunters is a WIN for everyone. yes YOU might not make a HUGH profit and YOU might have to hunt the same titan more then once to get your reward but then the game is not always about that you want.

 

casting unbreakable 200 why not. i for one only get the 5 measly loyalty points a day so getting a UB200 from that section is not even a option at this point. Maybe if TH and merchants get uncapped and i was able to get a little extra gold i could afford to scavenge a little. if you want to only be able to get UB200 if your spending moneys then only make it available in EPIC chest only then. if your worried about hurting the caves,...MAKE SOMETHING NEW FOR THEM. if the area of the game is on the decline because a new function of the game was created then maybe a little effort might have to be put in the the section that was effected to make it better. 

 

just my 2 cents.



#29 EpicPiety

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 14:33

casting unbreakable 200 why not. i for one only get the 5 measly loyalty points a day so getting a UB200 from that section is not even a option at this point. Maybe if TH and merchants get uncapped and i was able to get a little extra gold i could afford to scavenge a little. if you want to only be able to get UB200 if your spending moneys then only make it available in EPIC chest only then. if your worried about hurting the caves,...MAKE SOMETHING NEW FOR THEM. if the area of the game is on the decline because a new function of the game was created then maybe a little effort might have to be put in the the section that was effected to make it better. 

 

just my 2 cents.

It's not just scavenging, composing has overshadowed it's much of every aspect of the game. I do not believe that is healthy for the game. If we allow every aspect to be rolled over eventually composing will be the only thing in the game (It's nearly there). I do agree with your point about adding new things. Composing or any new aspect shouldn't overshadow things rather introduce new things.

 

The game already heavily revolves around composing, I'm not sure it's wise to put more eggs in it's basket. 



#30 EpicPiety

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 14:40

x5 titan doubler sounds great, we are so far past titan hunting being a guild active now that speeding up the clean up sounds great. Only ones it will hunt are the ones that can and do secure it all the time. for the rest of us clean up titan hunters or just seasonal  hunters anything to get it past the pain if having to deal with the script hunters is a WIN for everyone. yes YOU might not make a HUGH profit and YOU might have to hunt the same titan more then once to get your reward but then the game is not always about that you want.

I think the problem with titan's getting cleaned up is much bigger than increasing titan doubler. Increasing titan doubler will further disgrace the titan hunter medal. Effectively nothing will change, if the effort/time required to kill a titan is decreased then surely price will fall. Thus people have even less of a reason to clean titans.

I recognize the problem and have been paying a premium to my TH to clean all titans. I think we must approach this problem from a different angle. 



#31 michael65

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 17:17

x5 titan doubler sounds great, we are so far past titan hunting being a guild active now that speeding up the clean up sounds great. Only ones it will hunt are the ones that can and do secure it all the time. for the rest of us clean up titan hunters or just seasonal  hunters anything to get it past the pain if having to deal with the script hunters is a WIN for everyone. yes YOU might not make a HUGH profit and YOU might have to hunt the same titan more then once to get your reward but then the game is not always about that you want.
 
 
just my 2 cents.


+1


to the counter-argument:

a. titans move fast, some very fast. titan doubler compensates.

b. cuts down on time to earn tkp/ drop.

c. titans will be introduced, teams will earn drops, someone will finish, and the same titan will be reintroduced. clearing titan gives no chance for others to learn/ earn from titan hunt. epics get into AH only from teams bc a cleared titan gets reintroduced into the game, then cleared again.

d. as long as actual hits are greater than 200, should titan doubler level matter?

#32 Tilley10

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 15:22

Wanted to comment on this thread to draw attention to it once again as HCS has stated that this is driving internal conversations.

 

The first thing I want to plug is a post from my close friend, Toreth. He tested Frag Finder in depth and found very good information and I have yet to see HCS comment on this. This needs to be looked at for balance changes as it seems it is not working as it was intended. https://forums.hunte...howtopic=77377 

 

I am not as good as Toreth is with testing or finding out specific numbers but! There is another buff that seems to be not working as intended: Healer. Healer seems a little ridiculous in the current form. It is activating ~10X more than it should. I have witnessed relic combats where Healer has activated on 50% of the combat rounds, 50%! I would like HCS to look into this to see if this is working as it should be or if the numbers need to be tweaked.

 

I would appreciate the feedback of everyone on any other buffs that they think need to be buffed/nerfed or changed entirely.

 

Happy Smashing! :D



#33 Alisa

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 01:38

There is another buff that seems to be not working as intended: Healer. Healer seems a little ridiculous in the current form. It is activating ~10X more than it should. I have witnessed relic combats where Healer has activated on 50% of the combat rounds, 50%! I would like HCS to look into this to see if this is working as it should be or if the numbers need to be tweaked.

 

Happy Smashing! :D

 

 

healer is working correctly... i think...
https://streamable.com/aixrhn


sigma_468x60.jpg


#34 Tilley10

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 13:44

healer is working correctly... i think...
https://streamable.com/aixrhn

How many times did that activate? Hard to tell in the video. Also, what level of Healer were you using?

Edited by Tilley10, 18 July 2021 - 15:42.


#35 EpicPiety

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 15:29

i've had an ongoing bug report on this. It appears to have been fixed July 13th.



#36 Undjuvion

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 17:01

i've had an ongoing bug report on this. It appears to have been fixed July 13th.

 

it would be nice if ALL bug fixes were posted on homepage, long long ago this would happen, i think its imperative, it keeps players clued in and shows the players that hcs are doing a great job!



#37 michael65

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 17:46

it would be nice if ALL bug fixes were posted on homepage, long long ago this would happen, i think its imperative, it keeps players clued in and shows the players that hcs are doing a great job!

or forum thread.

#38 EpicPiety

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 19:10

it would be nice if ALL bug fixes were posted on homepage, long long ago this would happen, i think its imperative, it keeps players clued in and shows the players that hcs are doing a great job!

I agree, something of a monthly/biweekly report or something.


Edited by EpicPiety, 18 July 2021 - 19:10.


#39 Alisa

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 04:29

How many times did that activate? Hard to tell in the video. Also, what level of Healer were you using?

38 rounds was active 6x and level 259


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#40 Tilley10

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 13:10

38 rounds was active 6x and level 259

Sorry, I should have asked a better question. We cannot count rounds where your HP is full as Healer cannot activate.

It activated 6 times. How many rounds of combat did you have less than full HP?

Edited by Tilley10, 19 July 2021 - 20:57.



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