47 replies to this topic

[Samppa]

Hello again!

 

As many of you might have noticed my signature I would like to make an official topic about it. Share what is behind the signature and so on.

Before you start reading my arguments/points, I must say that I believe any of the following changes would not make HCS bankrupt or lose money considerably. Its just your sweet thinking that you keep blabbering to yourself to feel better about paying yourself to win. Of course, I'll listen if you got valid point to make other than your self-profit.

1. Make Eldevin Points bound to the Buyer

Yes, EP points are totally tradeable and you can get fortune with them. The most efficient way to use these points is to buy sacks or sell them for gold. Of course, there is few other "okay" features to buy in shop, but nothing that good as those two.

 

Basically, EP points are much more valuable currency then gold, yet they are completely fine with selling EP points to gold. You can't win in terms of gold a player who buys EP.

 

The one with most currency can get anything, even loot if he wants to. In games like World of Warcraft its quite normal to buy yourself "bound" loot by buying yourself into raid that you wouldn't normally clear yourself or be even enough geared. Just an example in case someone dares to say otherwise.

 

2. Basket

 

Edit basket to be able to hold 5x resouces instead of 3x and make it cost 10-20g.

 

3. Removal of Gold Selling in Shop
 

Buying gold from shop currently is something that no sane person would do. Its not worth it. EP points sell for more gold when sold to players. But, problem is not that in this case, but the fact there is: GOLD SELLING. 

 

I don't know if the idea was to limit gold buying from 3rd party (bot sellers) or what, but it does not have positive impact on the game if people realize that there is gold selling available. Its a matter of principle for many and the gold selling acts as limiter to population. The most wanted stuff from shop are most likely sacks, bags, vanity items/emotes, pots and few useful abilities(non-combat wise) + membership. <-- These are okay.

 

Removing gold is justice!

4. More reasonable skill prices

 

Many skills are heavily priced as in gold value, which I think is not "right". The scaling could be a bit more gentler towards players who don't pay themselves to victory. They should be worth some, but maybe dropping it by 25-50% would not hurt at all. In near future with the introduction of mounts for example, will "probably" trigger the need for gold just fine + there is other sources to spend gold on.

 

5. Unembed Gems for Gold

 

I recently discovered that removing gems need EP? What!? Well, if my EP bound suggestion goes through then this must change so that it would require gold instead. Of course, if not, still I would like it to cost gold instead.


General & Last words

 

I would like to see HCS moving into direction which favors F2P players more. Not every idea is good when it comes to making profit especially if you end up sacrificing too many things for it. There is a fine line which you should not cross, though we all view it differently. My line is not extremely strict, but it does not tolerate currency selling in a way its happening here. 

Basically, if my suggestions went through, the buying population could change from selling EP points to selling Sacks, bags, potions etc.. In return for gold. This would result in major inflation of those items, leading to the state where F2P would benefit a lot, because buying them would be cheaper and selling them less benefittable. Even this would be much more pleasing then how it is now.

Finally, if you agree to my suggestions or at least to some of them, please use this signature and vote in this topic!

 

Format for the signature:
 

Supporter of more F2P Eldevin

* Make EP points bound!

* Bucket available for gold!
* Removal of Gold Selling in Shop!

* More reasonable skill prices!

* Unembed Gems cost gold instead

 

Copy & Paste this to your signature if you agree with me.

 

 

Edited by Samppa, 05 February 2014 - 16:08.

[hussey]

A big no

[Crusader]

I support this. Having two currencies and one of them being premium means that the premium currency is going to be worth a lot of gold to people to don't want to spend real-life money on the game. It should be bound in my opinion, but then there are more problems; people will buy vanity items from the store and sell them in-game which is effectively not eradicating the problem. The only way gold:EP is going to be fair is if the price of EP in-game is reduced. That also brings up the problem that it's primarily a player-run economy. Features like the mall or player-run stalls might lesser the prices a bit. I know it can be a big problem, but overall I think that if you don't buy EP from the store, you're not at a massive disadvantage if you're not lazy. Any player can go collect materials or farm flakes and sell them. There's some people I know that have never bought the premium currency and they've got thousands of EP. It's just a time advantage to be honest, and if you're tolerant and have the time then you can make as much money as anybody else.

 

My opinion is that EP shouldn't be tradable. Not because I don't want it to be, but because it'd make no difference. People will buy things worth EP in the store and sell them to players for gold, effectively making as much money as they would selling solid EP.

Edited by Crusader, 05 February 2014 - 13:51.

[Mongo]

The only thing a free to play player can not obtain, is the items in the loyalty section.

 

Everything else can be obtained by free to play players, they just need to work for their rewards! 

 

From my point of view this game is already fully free to play. All you pay real $ for really is convenience and shiny stuff that does not affect game play 

[Linkondrugs]

NOOOOOO

[Neon]

I voted maybe, the only things I'd like to see here is the gold removed and changes to gems.

 

I made a topic recently about gems - http://forums.hunted...c=62268&hl=gems

 

As for the gold removal, I know it's not pay2win, but whenever I enter the shop it does make the game look pay2win since that's what buying gold is associated with. For the longevity of the game it would be something that should be removed until it is necessary to add (chinese gold farming websites takeover etc).

[Medi3vil]

the only point I like is five, and I'm f2p 

[Samppa]

A big no

 

You like buying yourself to win? Care to say why?

 

I support this. Having two currencies and one of them being premium means that the premium currency is going to be worth a lot of gold to people to don't want to spend real-life money on the game. It should be bound in my opinion, but then there are more problems; people will buy vanity items from the store and sell them in-game which is effectively not eradicating the problem. The only way gold:EP is going to be fair is if the price of EP in-game is reduced. That also brings up the problem that it's primarily a player-run economy. Features like the mall or player-run stalls might lesser the prices a bit. I know it can be a big problem, but overall I think that if you don't buy EP from the store, you're not at a massive disadvantage if you're not lazy. Any player can go collect materials or farm flakes and sell them. There's some people I know that have never bought the premium currency and they've got thousands of EP. It's just a time advantage to be honest, and if you're tolerant and have the time then you can make as much money as anybody else.

 

My opinion is that EP shouldn't be tradable. Not because I don't want it to be, but because it'd make no difference. People will buy things worth EP in the store and sell them to players for gold, effectively making as much money as they would selling solid EP.

Yup. The problem wouldn't completely be gone with these changes, but it would benefit F2P players a lot in general. The closer those two get (F2P and Buyers), the better game becomes, that is indisputable truth in every game. Only self-centered egoists can enjoy imbalance.

 

The only thing a free to play player can not obtain, is the items in the loyalty section.

 

Everything else can be obtained by free to play players, they just need to work for their rewards! 

 

From my point of view this game is already fully free to play. All you pay real $ for really is convenience and shiny stuff that does not affect game play 

 

Erhm. Are you floating in a sky on something? Seeing happy cows? I guess its easy from your perspective, but perhaps you should try F2P perspective and from standard player view. Ain't so dumb to think that I wouldn't achieve what buyers do, but they have considerable advantage and that is exactly what people call: P2W.

 

Player B: Can just hit few numbers to the screen and receive 2k EPs and change them to roughly over 2k Gold. Then buy stacks of profession items or whatever he wants.

Player F: Has to farm days or weeks or months for same result, depending on his activity and current status in the game.

 

NOOOOOO

 

You like buying yourself to win? Care to say why?

 

the only point I like is five, and I'm f2p 

Mind telling why? Why are you so willingly to kick yourself to knee?

Edited by Samppa, 05 February 2014 - 14:11.

[Mongo]

 

Erhm. Are you floating in a sky on something? Seeing happy cows? I guess its easy from your perspective, but perhaps you should try F2P perspective and from standard player view. Ain't so dumb to think that I wouldn't achieve what buyers do, but they have considerable advantage and that is exactly what people call: P2W.

 

 

I grinded gold for a week and converted that into thousands of EP via trade with others, what is stopping you doing that?

 

Like I said before, you are paying for convenience when you use real $ to buy gold, booster etc. nothing more, nothing less.

[Samppa]

I grinded gold for a week and converted that into thousands of EP via trade with others, what is stopping you doing that?

 

Like I said before, you are paying for convenience when you use real $ to buy gold, booster etc. nothing more, nothing less.

Ain't talking for myself here, I'm mostly fine atm. I did not deny that it wasn't possible, but its not fair situation, that is clear and it could be easily adjusted, so why not? What there is to be afraid of?

[Mongo]

Ain't talking for myself here, I'm mostly fine atm. I did not deny that it wasn't possible, but its not fair situation, that is clear and it could be easily adjusted, so why not? What there is to be afraid of?

 

There are so many ways to make Eldevin Points for free in this game. I think we are actually lucky that EP are tradeable! it gives free to play players a chance to own everything a paying player can own (except loyalty).

[Kedyn]

I voted no to the poll. I really don't see this game as P2W as compared to many games that I've played in the past. Sure, Player A sells EP for gold to Player B to make a quick amount of gold, but as you've noted, Player B then has gold to buy materials, which comes from players who are willing to put the time and effort into farming those materials (ie could be free players to start making gold).

 

I think the bigger item that should be focused on here is the amount of gold in the system causing inflation rates from a 3-4EP to 1 gold ratio to a 1EP to 1 gold ratio. 

 

I do agree with point 5, but only in certain gems. I think the higher the tier of gem, the more it should cost. Once you hit a certain tier, then it should be EP only (which can be bought from other players through buying/selling of crafting items or NPC items as you level). 

[Samppa]

There are so many ways to make Eldevin Points for free in this game. I think we are actually lucky that EP are tradeable! it gives free to play players a chance to own everything a paying player can own (except loyalty).

Still the problem would remain. So, for the sake of vanity crap/fancydancy/lessimportant stuff that does not affect the game at all, we should allow this?

[Samppa]

I voted no to the poll. I really don't see this game as P2W as compared to many games that I've played in the past. Sure, Player A sells EP for gold to Player B to make a quick amount of gold, but as you've noted, Player B then has gold to buy materials, which comes from players who are willing to put the time and effort into farming those materials (ie could be free players to start making gold).

 

I think the bigger item that should be focused on here is the amount of gold in the system causing inflation rates from a 3-4EP to 1 gold ratio to a 1EP to 1 gold ratio. 

 

I do agree with point 5, but only in certain gems. I think the higher the tier of gem, the more it should cost. Once you hit a certain tier, then it should be EP only (which can be bought from other players through buying/selling of crafting items or NPC items as you level). 

I agree that Eldevin isn't the worst example in P2W, by far. But, it exists and its a pity. :/

 

Buying player ends up getting the most advantage in that scenario, regardless how we try to alter the perspective. The time spent by buying player is much less than what free player has to do for same result. Everything is possible if you have time, but the situation I have described is still the same. 

These changes would still keep the power balance between buyer and free player favorable to buying one, so I don't see any reason why not to change it more appealing to those who will probably become the majority of players: F2P.

[RISDMAC]

Peoples definitions of pay to win vary from person to person. Personnally I view everything in the shop as convenience rather than neccessity therefore not qualifying as pay to win. But others will disagree as is evident from the forums of late which is fine too, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

The only idea I think might be interesting is converting gem removal to gold, the rest I whole heartedly disagree with and would hate to see introduced.

[Leofin]

The definition of pay to win is never agreed upon and is a constant argument in game.  I have no huge issues with the current system.  If you enjoy playing the game and like the community, as I do, I see no problem becoming a supporter under the current system.  

[IndustrialJunkie]

about the buckets, these things are a farming tool only, all they do is hold water, crop dust or compost. might want to read what they do before posting they need to be changed to buying with gold 

[IndustrialJunkie]

double post ftw!

Edited by IndustrialJunkie, 05 February 2014 - 15:44.

[Samppa]

Peoples definitions of pay to win vary from person to person. Personnally I view everything in the shop as convenience rather than neccessity therefore not qualifying as pay to win. But others will disagree as is evident from the forums of late which is fine too, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

The only idea I think might be interesting is converting gem removal to gold, the rest I whole heartedly disagree with and would hate to see introduced.

 

Yep, this has been argued many times yeah. Its true, but if we think "pay to win" as words and what they mean, it clearly fits in. As you can pay for currency that allows you to win: Economically, crafting, loot(future), items, gold or whatever. I don't think this needs any more describing.

 

The definition of pay to win is never agreed upon and is a constant argument in game.  I have no huge issues with the current system.  If you enjoy playing the game and like the community, as I do, I see no problem becoming a supporter under the current system.  

 

I was considering membership and still am, but that is different from what this topic is all about. Same as above, if you pay and get advantage, that is undoubtedly P2W. Ain't against membership or most things that are in shop. I try to view them more neutrally, as I am not that extremist, thank god. Otherwise I would be demanding full change of shop, haha.

 

You know human is funny being, it can get used to things, especially if he doesn't know of better. ;P I like the game a lot, but that does not prevent me from suggesting things that could improve it. ^^

 

about the buckets, these things are a farming tool only, all they do is hold water, crop dust or compost. might want to read what they do before posting they need to be changed to buying with gold 

LOL. Good point mate How silly item. Since this is the case, then my next proposition is to add 5x item similar to sack. Lol


OT:
 

So far I haven't heard that many proper reasons from those who voted no. Please send proper answers, I don't want to think that you all are after imbalanced gaming.

[Soupboy]

nooooooooooooo