63 replies to this topic

[Subetei]

well this has been an entertaining discussion let's hope Skalla doesn't pull any more goofy stuff out from somewhere.

how dare you challenge me here are some of my proteges. how many proteges do you have?... blah blah blah :roll:

[Skallagrime]

I'm sorry you had to wait so long, some of us have jobs that dont allow/have internet access to waste our time with ensuring that we're more productive human beings, I'm sorry I could not more rapidly respond...

Part 1

(increase 289 levels = 34 levs per usp/1000 ap)
(increase of 55 wisdom = +7 wisdom per usp/1000 ap)
my mage got this off layks that was the exact same level and wis as his character
high 30s lvls per usp
11-13 wis per USP

the diff was probably doublers which you can't use in that quest realm. my mage used not one mana potion the whole time. yeah i have no idea why he didn't do what you said. :roll:

"take a few billion mana potions" how much did this cost?

you can't use doublers in that quest realm you were wrong. live with it.

1, maybe you did get high 30s in levs per usp, granted, layks are superior for exp:ap, I have never disagreed with that
2. doublers, incorrect, did i mention i had a miner in the quest realm at the time? though you can certainly get at least 14 minutes off of your first doubler if you're fast enough so again, huzzah for irrational yet trivial point
3. if you postulated the wisdom gain differential as being entirely due to doubler then why is it that your creature which took less aps to kill (more than double) (and therefore more teleports and locates) gave a higher wisdom value? the difference will be + wisdom amounts, I had nothing but quest-given + wisdom gear/forgeables, no invasion items, + wisdom makes a bigger difference in wisdom gain per usp than anything else. also in that 45 minute stint I changed spells a total of 3 times, how many times did you?
4. I ran 8 usps worth in 45 minutes, there was no competition and i never once ran out of creatures to hunt, personally i find i get about 8 minutes into spawn on Layks and theres no more, so whats the point, the population is not sustainable
5. yes i said a few billion mana potions, i think i MAY have exaggerated a little. it cost me nothing, thats the beauty of blue dust. i went in with under 20,000 i know that, and heres how many i have left: Magnificent Mana Potion -Quantity 7800 (mp gain 400)

[Skallagrime]

Part 2

and don't make up stories like that 5000 lvl warrior that has all those stats on whatever vial...what was it? 8500 atk 10000AC more than 5000dmg? let us see this awesome warrior!

"i could take on the creatures easily at my "low" level, and most of my level 5000 warriors can too"

DEF - 8300-8500
DMG - 8000-10,000
AC - 3400-4000
HP 200000- 210000

i'm skeptical

these were the base stats neccesary right?
Molten Moonlight Vial -
ATK - 2,657 essential
AC - 2,645 essential
DMG - 3,698 ?
assuming 1000 base ap and hp, (1000 levels)

anyway i thought it was pretty comedic how you made up creatures your characters could take on 'easily'... no joke huh? you are either making it up or suggesting creatures your characters can take on easily which is it?

1. your postulation that because i posted 3 vials, those are the ones that I would use is fallacious. There is something called a Greater Beast vial, it features one of the higher atk boosts in the game, second only to the vial of dawning light, and also one of the sturdier ac values, larger than the starlight in fact
2. likewise whereas i postulated only hard shells 1 and 2 (15 %) I use hard shell 3 in my day to day hunting (20%)
3. in addittion to this i used only rock skin 20 points (20 % base ac increase) for my "low balling" to give me some latitude whereas my characters invariably include the skillful + ability to have 25 points (25 %)
4 Altogether that places a warrior at the following values in order to reliably attack and not get hit for more than one point of damage
atk 1900 base
ac 1775 base
5. and i dont do pvp and therefore the 1000 base hp that i state as "the norm" is inaccurate and more often than not i have more like 100 base which is all from questing and maybe evening it out a little normally i feature about 800 ap base which is even high estimate (no quest ap) 400 levels, summed out thats 4075 levels all told. leaving 925 levels to damage, and that my dear friend is called insane, something i do well
6. oh, and also remember that those numbers up there include only 1500 item ac and atk, whereas I can get about 3500 atk outta items if i really tweak it

easily, not efficiently dont mistake the two, I said easily and i meant i could do the port and click no problem, not that they'd be good or better exp:ap (i think i even pointed out that demonsaurs and the ilk are better exp:ap, or i MAY just be imagining things :mrgreen:

[Skallagrime]

PART 3

skella dont pick on noobs. *smacks you on the nose*

its not fair you knwo way more about the game than he possibly could. (well i dunno he does have that few months play time :? :shock: :roll: )

i never said i knew more than he did. i said sometimes he is wrong. i also never claimed to be an expert and do not give a rats ass about proteges... if mr Skalla exhibited this behavior among real mathmaticians, scholars, or scientists he'd be laughed out of the room.

powerleveling newbs and calling them proteges? skalla should really quit now. this is funny. i was partly wrong about the pp exchanges at least i can admit it. i was the one that pointed it out even... this is silly.

1. and i never said i've never been wrong, i've asked for reasonable data to support your opinions, you have volunteered none, which leads me to beleive (in the abscence of any other proof that you built for the "now" and resent anything that has the potential to make any other build more or even the same viable is rubbish to your mind's eye (do correct me if i'm wrong, i've yet to see anything resembling a logical intelligent arguement and thats why i'm treating you like the 6 month old throwing a tantrum)
2. Powerleveling efficiently is cake, granted, but why do you limit persons whom i've had a profound effect on to the 2100 and under crowd? surely you've noticed that NO ONE has lent you any credibility and some that even perhaps dislike me have had nothing to say to support your opinions even out of spite, quite the contrary methinks...

for starters asking who my proteges are.... as if that mattered or made any of his arguments more or less convinving because he has proteges. calling out anyone that challenge some things they said for a show of knowledge... that would be another. no one does that. could you imagine? i am somewhat embarrassed that i even took this kind of seriously. GmbH nerfed my creature one time. he should get over it.

1. interesting, so the teacher is not actually measured by his students anymore? then what is the standard to measure against? (thats actually a sincere question beleive it or not)
2. oh really, i built a battery of creatures for the sole purpose of a show of knowledge? news to me, I kinda thought i did it to hopefully alleviate some degree of boredom in maybe 50 % of the people who play this game, but nevermind that, thanks for showing me what i actually was doing.
3. You challenged my allegations that people could actually hunt this if not perfectly, at least viably as an alternative to dregdins, I showed it could actually be done and you still say its impossible or improbable, I beg to differ, 2 years ago people would have laughed at your personal build calling IT impossible and improbable, I still view it as very one-dimensional and stagnating
4. YOU'RE embarassed? i gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were pulling my leg when you asked if a single spawn creature stated to be a BOSS monster (lord nagath anyone?) was for "trogging" (perhaps one of the most asininely stupid practices in the whole of gothador)
5. gmbh nerfed your creature eh? when and where if i might be so bold as to ask?

[Skallagrime]

PART 4

did i not say that i would take 150000 points of damage before i had to heal up? i can kill them easily... so every thing you just said there is a complete joke as usual

sorry you wasted your time typing all that crap.

nitpicking cause i can, no you DIDNT say you could take 150K dmg before healing, and wait, you called me on "easily" but you say it here yourself while professing to be "unable" to hunt them, interesting dichotomy, anyway, YOU SAID

a 15000 lvl or so elf warrior on a molten moonlight is not going to touch this unless he or she is an ac whore. that's 150000 healing every 3rd or 4th kill or so depending. if the warrior even has that many hp which many don't. it's too much dmg for that number of hp. it will get annoying. i would take around 50000hp a kill. vs desert warriors it's not going to be worth it to take more than 6 times the dmg for only double the xp.

that avg dmg is 1500 higher than desert warriors.

which of course must be predicated on the idea that no matter what, all elven warriors level 15K should follow your build... interesting opinion

oh, and yeah, this bothered me too, why are you bothering with pointing out that the AVERAGE damage is higher than desert warriors? hit a bad stretch of the rng and desert warriors have the same dmg (at least in most warriors books)

[Skallagrime]

part 5

um.... what exactly is the point of this? this was supposed to be impressive no?
"anyway, you name your proteges and i'll just let mine post their own support, oh, wait a couple of them have already and mostly they seem to be double your level"

now i know this may be hard for you, but try to follow me here.
I personally teach lets call it 20 people a thing or 3 about building for longevity, say 5 of them make it to the top 50 and stay there for 2 years, now, on the one hand, yes they did it themselves, but if they are willing to point at me and say "thats the guy that helped me get here" then am I not entitled to point out as a rejoinder to a newb that acheives 1.5 times my level, that there are MULTIPLE persons 3 times my level that owe at least a part of their being there to myself?
so in answer
Point? Track record
impressive? NO

molten moonlight. aren't nidhogors awesome?

also by what you said there Metalhead has a glass jaw then too. so whatever. most ACs of big characters are around 5000... mine is around 3500. i put that 1500 in hp and dmg instead. i fail to see how that makes my jaw any more glass like that any one else. some characters have like 9-12k AC and maybe 5000 hp... what are they? all the AC in the world won't help you kill a mage. oh yeah you just reminded me a mage just said i have a glass jaw... that's curious!

erm 1500 ehh? cut that in half, ac gets bonuses out the arse, you've got an extra 750 levels to play with not 1500 (and if you dont use rock skin, then its even less than that)

ac versus mage, useless granted that is true, and your point seems to be? pvp is "wrecked" by using ac as your defensive mechanism. okay, granted, but the less ac you have the more limited your vial selection can be, you needs must select high damage high hp to hunt period, or maybe not be an elf and hit your safe haven a lot

now lets say you have 150 K hp on your molten moonlight vial anfang, how do you fill that up? if you've got a mage that fills you up, thats a set switch on your part plus making sure its the same square and then of course getting them to cast on you before you're on to your next creature, thats what is called in the vernacular "wasted time" and what happens if you need a refill in the middle of an invasion? guess who missed out? not glass-jaw with enough ac and more to take on the hits

on the other hand ac has some amusing side-benefits to warrior v warrior pvp, getting deathblowed for 10 dmg is pretty funny when you're hitting the other guy for 1000 regularly

[Subetei]

3. if you postulated the wisdom gain differential as being entirely due to doubler then why is it that your creature which took less aps to kill (more than double) (and therefore more teleports and locates) gave a higher wisdom value? the difference will be + wisdom amounts, I had nothing but quest-given + wisdom gear/forgeables, no invasion items, + wisdom makes a bigger difference in wisdom gain per usp than anything else. also in that 45 minute stint I changed spells a total of 3 times, how many times did you?

5. yes i said a few billion mana potions, i think i MAY have exaggerated a little. it cost me nothing, thats the beauty of blue dust. i went in with under 20,000 i know that, and heres how many i have left: Magnificent Mana Potion -Quantity 7800 (mp gain 400)

i said 'probably'... i don't really care. somehow i got more wisdom than you did. also hiking 2 characters in a quest realm at the same time is a pain in the ASS. your solution was more of a pain in the ass and produced fewer levels and wisdom. nothing you've said here suggest otherwise.

Blue dust takes aps to get. that is a cost. if you used aps to get that dust from wherever you got to factor that in to the ap spent. no mana potions = much less ap. you didn't say how much ap it took to get those, even if it was from a different character. not everyone has a bazillion alts and no i did not do a bunch of USPs at the same time infact i don't think my mage did 8 USPs total of Layks because it didn't take very long to get her wis high enough to do Snow Spiders. this fact also makes your plan sillier.

[Subetei]

Part 2

1. your postulation that because i posted 3 vials, those are the ones that I would use is fallacious. There is something called a Greater Beast vial, it features one of the higher atk boosts in the game, second only to the vial of dawning light, and also one of the sturdier ac values, larger than the starlight in fact
2. likewise whereas i postulated only hard shells 1 and 2 (15 %) I use hard shell 3 in my day to day hunting (20%)
3. in addittion to this i used only rock skin 20 points (20 % base ac increase) for my "low balling" to give me some latitude whereas my characters invariably include the skillful + ability to have 25 points (25 %)
4 Altogether that places a warrior at the following values in order to reliably attack and not get hit for more than one point of damage
atk 1900 base
ac 1775 base
5. and i dont do pvp and therefore the 1000 base hp that i state as "the norm" is inaccurate and more often than not i have more like 100 base which is all from questing and maybe evening it out a little normally i feature about 800 ap base which is even high estimate (no quest ap) 400 levels, summed out thats 4075 levels all told. leaving 925 levels to damage, and that my dear friend is called insane, something i do well
6. oh, and also remember that those numbers up there include only 1500 item ac and atk, whereas I can get about 3500 atk outta items if i really tweak it

easily, not efficiently dont mistake the two, I said easily and i meant i could do the port and click no problem, not that they'd be good or better exp:ap (i think i even pointed out that demonsaurs and the ilk are better exp:ap, or i MAY just be imagining things :mrgreen:

so you did that creature to fit your chacters' build perfectly? this is quite impressive. i must point out that almost no one puts those ratios of ATK and AC. so you are giving your characters' quite the advantage here. *slow claps*

[Subetei]

which of course must be predicated on the idea that no matter what, all elven warriors level 15K should follow your build... interesting opinion

you are being very dishonest here. alot of elves do go the damage whore type route in case you haven't noticed. alot of this mumbo jumbo is trying to obfuscate the fact that you suggested a creature based on what perfectly suits your characters' build. so i don't see why it should be taken seriously. you yourself said you could hunt those easily... looking at your stats shows you hardly have to put any points on AC. whereas your own words... giving other players a challenge. i am all for challenges too but why do they just happen to fit with your characters build?

it would also be a challenge to give a creature 50000 or so magic retal.... but you don't put points on hps. why not that? everyone would take some damage with that. you already put a ton of points on AC so you went with the DMG that perfectly fits your excessive points in AC.

anyway i am going to cut this short as you have posted too many ridiculous things here for me to respond too and i am getting tired of this.

[AizenVicious]

Elves? I'm the coolest elf ever.

[lasciel]

Elves? I'm the coolest elf ever.

"that's like being the smartest kid with down syndrome!"

[Skallagrime]

re: "probably, but i got more wisdom"

1. hiking 2 characters to a quest realm is not a pain in the ass, as a general rule if you have about 10 characters the same level, the best way to go about things is to do the quests "at the same time" so that you can mark them all off at the same time, and have it in your mind solidly (repetition builds memory) in case you ever do it again with another character

2. wisdom gain, we've discussed, but you've yet to post any solid numbers so i can tell you how much of the difference in wisdom is due to extra + wisdom and how much due to inflationary numbers. because (and this is FACT) the amount of wisdom you get is predicated on how much mp you use/are thought to be using (allowing for failed casts) the number is a slight range but on the average is 2.25 (mages multiply times 2, so 4.5) casting exp per single mp used/thought to be used, go ahead test it out, do 100 casts of say 500mp each ap, your average wisdom gain will be 225,000 casting exp.

now i'm fine saying you got more casting exp per usp(+ wisdom gear), I'm also fine saying that you got more levels than me per usp(lets even call it 39lv/usp so an extra 5 per) but per your point that you used less than 8000 ap, fair enough, you never stated how many levels you got, just your ratios, given that though...
you net 14.7% better exp:ap (incidentally, I didnt have quicklearner, you?)
you net 71.4 % better wisdom:ap (thats difficult to beleive unless you have at least 150 extra +wisdom over me, +218 here btw)

3. blue dust costs aps to get ehh, no, not really, it costs me about 5 minutes per week per 20,000 dust, 10 unsupported alts for a year gives a hefty sum of that stuff, to me, thats a zero cost item quite frankly if and when i choose to use them.

4. mage and snow spiders ehh? i presume utilising the new vial of cinder, cause any other way you cut it in order to do those things you're looking at near on 2000 def base as a mage, and on the other hand, your mana sucks even if you're level 3000 have 2000 in defense and the rest in mp and are on a molten mana beam. especially for that wisdom level (line 4 is all my personal opinion excepting the needing 2000ish def to have any mp to hunt with)

[Subetei]

4. mage and snow spiders ehh? i presume utilising the new vial of cinder, cause any other way you cut it in order to do those things you're looking at near on 2000 def base as a mage, and on the other hand, your mana sucks even if you're level 3000 have 2000 in defense and the rest in mp and are on a molten mana beam. especially for that wisdom level (line 4 is all my personal opinion excepting the needing 2000ish def to have any mp to hunt with)

she's a shadow mage defense whore. very easy to get that def. she uses incendinite claws. her def currently is 4200 at lvl 3160. she does ok with her lowish mana. the minor ap loss from bouncing off mana shrines is well worth it. i'll build her mana up later.

[Skallagrime]

re: creaures built for skallagrim "exclusively"

atk 1900
ac 1775

errrrrr no one does that atk and ac?
you're still joking right?

soab i'ma have to quote myself

easily, not efficiently dont mistake the two, I said easily and i meant i could do the port and click no problem, not that they'd be good or better exp:ap (i think i even pointed out that demonsaurs and the ilk are better exp:ap, or i MAY just be imagining things :mrgreen:

so you did that creature to fit your chacters' build perfectly? this is quite impressive. i must point out that almost no one puts those ratios of ATK and AC. so you are giving your characters' quite the advantage here. *slow claps*

*looks up slowly and re-reads the big font*
*pauses*
*re-reads anfang's thought that i built something to my specific advantage*
*pauses*
*takes a swig of bourbon to make that last statement easier to swallow*
*waits for alcohol to take effect*
*Re-RE-reads anfangs post *
*chokes*

[Mysticalme]

Congrats Skalla, you have learned to create critters that are perfect for you to kill

*pats him on the back*

It will be ok one of these days dear

[Subetei]

re: creaures built for skallagrim "exclusively"

atk 1900
ac 1775

errrrrr no one does that atk and ac?
you're still joking right?

not at 5000, no. can we see a show of hands? any 5000 warriors besides skalla's got that ratio? 3675 to atk and AC out of 5000? anyway you posted the creature stats and posted your stats or what they were 1200 lvls ago... 6000AC? i let them decide for themselves. if one continues in those ratios it fits perfectly.

[Skallagrime]

which of course must be predicated on the idea that no matter what, all elven warriors level 15K should follow your build... interesting opinion

you are being very dishonest here. alot of elves do go the damage whore type route in case you haven't noticed. alot of this mumbo jumbo is trying to obfuscate the fact that you suggested a creature based on what perfectly suits your characters' build. so i don't see why it should be taken seriously. you yourself said you could hunt those easily... looking at your stats shows you hardly have to put any points on AC. whereas your own words... giving other players a challenge. i am all for challenges too but why do they just happen to fit with your characters build?

it would also be a challenge to give a creature 50000 or so magic retal.... but you don't put points on hps. why not that? everyone would take some damage with that. you already put a ton of points on AC so you went with the DMG that perfectly fits your excessive points in AC.

anyway i am going to cut this short as you have posted too many ridiculous things here for me to respond too and i am getting tired of this.

1. I'm not being dishonest, if anything i'm simply looking askance that your build is the only build that elven warriors ought to follow

2. I've already pointed out that the creatures i built i CAN hunt easily, but NOT efficiently, funny how you keep thinking that they suit me perfectly, MY challenge will consist of aquiring 4000 more base damage maybe 500 more spread to atk and ac to hunt them on a better dmg vial, and everyone else has to work on 2000 levels spread to atk and dmg, 2000:4500 wait, these are my suggestion as MY perfect creature, right....

3. magical retal ehh, wait a minute, remember when jungle dragons came out? nope not possible, you're 6 months old and showing it, I had 1000 kills under my belt before anyone else had 200, I advocated more magical retal good:great exp creatures when everyone was whining and complaining about how ridiculous it was to hunt them.
chaos spawns? I was the first to 1000 kills under my belt sold 4 gems and had my own slotted before anyone else had 200 kills
now you're advocating something that perfectly fits your own excessive points in hp, pot, meet kettle..... i dont care if i'm black so long as you admit your own sooty sheen

[Skallagrime]

shadow mage defensive build ehh, yeah, thats really effective, no damage bonus, no way to shield yourself from dmg coming in, no point to hunting magical retal creatures because the defense wont do anything about it

what are you on? you skip from place to place accusing me of horrible builds and you advocate the crap classes, elves dont do the best dmg, Titans do, where were you when xeran was getting ripped apart (albeit deservedly so) for pointing out that elves one advantage (crit for extra damage) was being nerfed by the infernal/spirit/Celestial increased talent point dmg modifiers? I was the only one that took the time and worked out the numbers to figure out which side was right, the figures showed that dmg:ap comes out even but celestials get the best deal because generally top creatures were all demonic (oh wait, nidhogors anyone?) AND they got angelic sheild to boot

thanks for playing, you're still not convincing me you have anything other than time and money under your belt with a prediliction towards shiny high critlucky deathblows, what in the hell do you DO with 2,500,000 dmg anyway?

theres only 9 creatures that have more than that hp and 7 of those are invasion only and the other two are the trogs

[Subetei]

shadow mage defensive build ehh, yeah, thats really effective, no damage bonus, no way to shield yourself from dmg coming in, no point to hunting magical retal creatures because the defense wont do anything about it

what are you on? you skip from place to place accusing me of horrible builds and you advocate the crap classes, elves dont do the best dmg, Titans do, where were you when xeran was getting ripped apart (albeit deservedly so) for pointing out that elves one advantage (crit for extra damage) was being nerfed by the infernal/spirit/Celestial increased talent point dmg modifiers? I was the only one that took the time and worked out the numbers to figure out which side was right, the figures showed that dmg:ap comes out even but celestials get the best deal because generally top creatures were all demonic (oh wait, nidhogors anyone?) AND they got angelic sheild to boot

thanks for playing, you're still not convincing me you have anything other than time and money under your belt with a prediliction towards shiny high critlucky deathblows, what in the hell do you DO with 2,500,000 dmg anyway?

theres only 9 creatures that have more than that hp and 7 of those are invasion only and the other two are the trogs

that's like the bazillionth time you put words in my mouth that i didn't say. i am going to quit argueing with you if you continue with this. Bluehaze said elves do the most damage... i said i was skeptical. well my shadow mage gets 50 lvls a usp from snow spiders.... it's working quite well. if she ever hunts nidhogors i will put some points on hp well before hand. she won't hunt Nidhogors though. anyway almosyt every single mage that's ever said anything has said to build your def and mana up first and don't worry about HP till later. i will go by that.

my crit/deathblow is only 1.8 mil... which coincidentally kills a nidhogor in 1 shot. and until my crit hit takes out a dregdin in one shot i'm going to keep putting points there.