36 replies to this topic

[Belaric]

We have threads on ladder rewards and GvG improvement, but not on the elephant in the room, which is the ladder.

 

It was widely regarded as broken and inactive. We are going back to it. Presumably going back to it in its broken and inactive form is not going to be a raging success.

 

New rewards will help, to be sure, but will that alone make the ladders more vibrant?

 

Being honest, I was warming to the seasons, especially once the standard season rewards were revealed, but what is done is done. The roll out was so bad it killed the idea, it seems to me. A pity, I would rather be tweaking the seasons than tweaking the ladder, but the decision has been made.

 

So: any ideas for ensuring as many players as possible join the ladders, stay on the ladders, and we see a long term increase in activity?

 

Just to get a ball rolling.

 

1) Do we expand the ranges in the ladder? In seasons some felt that the lack of ranges was a problem - will tight 100 level bands also be a problem - in the past there have been proposals to widen ladder bands - should these be looked at? Where should we widen the bands and by how much?

 

2) XP loss on the ladder - should it stay? XP loss was removed from the seasons, would removing it from the ladder increase participation? I think so, but I imagine most old school ladder players will want to keep XP loss. Should it be scaled down to encourage skittish noobs to try the ladder? If the ladders come back, people try it, don't like the XP loss, leave and the ladders become empty again, would an adjustment to XP loss be considered to try to increase participation, which was the original Cow goal of the failed revamp?

 

3) In the previous ladder much discussion was had about blocks of guildies sitting in various bands, and whether it was an advantage or not. I'm not going into those pros and cons, just asking - should guildies

be able to hit each other? In a thinly populated ladder I suppose this allows collusion, unless...

 

4) The random targeting function is ported into the ladder. I'm not sure this would work given the smaller numbers in each band, but I'm putting it out there for discussion. If band sizes are widened considerably, random targeting may be viable...

 

5) How is ladder rating calculated - should it be ELO, if it is not now?

 

6) What should the duration of the ladder be, same as before, or longer?

 

7) Random reset times or defined?

 

 

 

Some stuff to think about, I'm sure I have missed other avenues of improvement. 

[bigchaos]

You know the ladder system to me is no real challenge.  How about doing this if you opt into playing pvp  instead of losing xp which make no sense losing xp in pvp and ladders because obvious you lose targets to strike do to excessive loss of xp.  I am going to roll this idea out.   How about a pvp/prestige point system. Throw all players together big and small want to know why?

 

Hitting players higher than your level you gain more points and hitting players below your level means lower to no points in a strike.  In the same process you want to add ladder ranges put it under how many pvp/prestige earned. Keep the targets only those opted in.  Let those not opted in get hit for gold or just because strikes be able to put bounties up.  Those in the pvping opting part are at risk with automatic bb.  This should feed bounty board. If we do not then I am thinking bb will be at the sad state of no bounties for long period of time or stuck with same players showing up as before in my opinion I find boring with no targets.

 

Keep xp loss to bb this is where it should be. Those that attack players not interested in this aspect of game should take the risk being on bb.  Keeping xp out of pvping means more target players staying in your range  and if you use points and prestige this will show who in fs world is the best pvper.  It will set up a king or queen of the hill idea in pvp challenge and yeah keep the ability to hit your team mates.  In seasons me and my team mates hit each other to learn what works what does not against those higher than yourself.  Yes I won against eoc and those way higher from me. This is only food for thought and my opinion of a challenge.  

 

I do not mind pvping,  I like and embrace that part of the game when I find it a challenge hitting those above me and taking the risk of some kind loss and reward bonus.  Thanks for letting me post this and my statements is not meant to be a flamer why the original ladder should stay exactly the same and add new prizes will save what a lot of players stated in comment area of forum when they were voting.    In truth of this player opinion of  new prizes will keep some interested but most will not play the old ladders without changes to it. I will put in public I am one of those players.  Take a look at my bio to see that I have been on bb and lost levels and I have been in titan league and I am not an eoc player.  You will see on my top bounties that I have hit player way above myself and I play arena in upper levels. I enjoy a challenge my opinion that pvp should reflect the best by going against the best in fs world. Challenge is gear, buffs, guilds helping you and your base stats. Thanks for letting put this long post out and I do apologize for the long post but in hopes that the ladder will be updated with changes will keep this player wanting to stay in pvp and bb area. 

[Kedyn]

Belaric - I applaud you starting this topic. It's something I want to take some time to think through. I have dabbled in the ladder, but it never really held my interest. I don't think I'm in my right mind to really respond, too tired. I'll try to think through during tomorrow, and try to respond tomorrow night.

 

I would like to see some more players actually weigh in here, as I'd rather not see a dead PVP Ladder again being the way of "PVP".

[Hoofmaster]

I think it would make sense to increase the level ranges of the bands a little. Even if it's something simple like 100 levels in the lower bands and 200 for the higher bands (maybe after level 1k?)?

[EpicPiety]

I think it would make sense to increase the level ranges of the bands a little. Even if it's something simple like 100 levels in the lower bands and 200 for the higher bands (maybe after level 1k?)?

ability to hit guildies?

[suderlon]

I think it would make sense to increase the level ranges of the bands a little. Even if it's something simple like 100 levels in the lower bands and 200 for the higher bands (maybe after level 1k?)?

yes hoof, it makes sense

 

some ladder bands, and most higher bands have almost the same pvp setups, hardly any difference

band 2400-2600 have almost the same pvp setups

[Hoofmaster]

Anyone super opposed to increasing the band ranges a bit?

[EpicPiety]

Anyone super opposed to increasing the band ranges a bit?

nada...more targets more fun...Maybe increase the duration of the bands too so we can get some better prizes

Edited by EpicPiety, 13 August 2015 - 21:00.

[yotwehc]

Anyone super opposed to increasing the band ranges a bit?

Leave the bands as is below 1k? I struggled mightily back at the low levels where my only option was to level out of range.

Anytime non pvprs get whacked a lot (like smasher medal intro and original seasons intro) you got a deluge of complaints. Most just don't watch the forums so I would tread carefully. Might even want to post a message in game.

[suderlon]

Leave the bands as is below 1k? I struggled mightily back at the low levels where my only option was to level out of range.

Anytime non pvprs get whacked a lot (like smasher medal intro and original seasons intro) you got a deluge of complaints. Most just don't watch the forums so I would tread carefully. Might even want to post a message in game.

do not be afraid, hoof is talking about pvp ladder bands, not gold attack ranges, they are currently at +/- 10 levels

you need to opt in to the pvp ladder to get attacked in those pvp ladder bands

[suderlon]

Anyone super opposed to increasing the band ranges a bit?

not me

 

nada...more targets more fun...Maybe increase the duration of the bands too so we can get some better prizes

it does not matter if the duration of the bands increase, we do not get "better prices" but we might get more tokens

current pvp ladder is 24-48 hours, 1.5 days for 5 tokens if you get #1 place, if they increase to 3 days then they give double token rewards (10 tokens for #1 place) and so on

[yotwehc]

do not be afraid, hoof is talking about pvp ladder bands, not gold attack ranges, they are currently at +/- 10 levels
you need to opt in to the pvp ladder to get attacked in those pvp ladder bands

Ahh. Ok thanks

[BigGrim]

ability to hit guildies?

Unlikely. Leads to collusion.

[bigchaos]

I was wondering if you could alter ladder by having points earned to be in the ladder like example I posted in my previous post.  If you had earned prestige points to be in the ladder it would make it very difficult to be in that ladder without hitting those in the ladder by hitting those higher than you.  It is meant as an idea so please do not take this as disrespect to your response about hitting team mates. I liked the aspect it was fun to test your guild mates knowledge in the field and the old ladder I agree with you 100 percent. One of the aspect of season league I liked and my team mates too.  

Edited by bigchaos, 14 August 2015 - 13:45.

[Maehdros]

24-48 hours is fine. If not, we get players waiting til the last day to start smashing.


Extending the ranges for 1000+ sounds good.


Reinstate/ Leave xp loss as it was before all these changes. Please don't revert to the old ladder ( as stated in the poll) then drastically change ladder again.


10 - 100 stamina hits.



Cheers~

Edited by Maehdros, 14 August 2015 - 14:04.

[DomCorvis]

open ranges up from 100-500,501-1000,1001-1500,1501-2500+


i can compete with players WELL above my level...opening ladders up 100 lvls is a joke after swinging at lvl 2500+ for the last 3-4 weeks

Edited by DomCorvis, 14 August 2015 - 14:20.

[Hoofmaster]

We've tweaked the PvP Bands so they will look like:

 

25 - 99

100 - 199

...

900 - 999

1000 - 1199

1200 - 1399

...

etc.

 

We can see how it goes and possibly increase the ranges even further at higher levels in the future.

[maxdragon]

We've tweaked the PvP Bands so they will look like:

 

25 - 99

100 - 199

...

900 - 999

1000 - 1199

1200 - 1399

...

etc.

 

We can see how it goes and possibly increase the ranges even further at higher levels in the future.

good one hoof

increasing the pvp bands will give each band more activity (more players to join the same band) and lesser rewards after each reset -> ladder prices stay longer with value, longer and more pvp activity and  competition

 

you could open the pvp bands a little more, 300 levels above level 900, like this:

2400-2699

2100-2399

1800-2099

1500-1799

1200-1499

900-1199

Edited by maxdragon, 14 August 2015 - 14:58.

[KitiaraLi]

<snip>

 

you could open the pvp bands a little more, 300 levels above level 900, like this:

2400-2699

2100-2399

1800-2099

1500-1799

1200-1499

900-1199

I agree, would even widen 'em further above lvl 900 so each bracket has 500 lvls worth. Not really that much difference in stats while buffed/potted and most hit their targets while they are offline anyways..or maybe it was just me being pummeled while I was working or sleeping?

Guildies should not be allowed to hit guildies. It would be easily abused.

Ladder hits should not be able to be posted on the board, as some will abuse this, to scare of other participants. Support should however be acting swiftly, if a player reports abusive behavior or foul use of language (and provides screenshots) to try and ensure a somewhat civilized tone on any and all brackets.

As for the rating system, it is a joke as it. The way I can build my rating while it is high, compared to how fast I can lose it all to somewhat with a low rating, in no way shows anything. Make things like initiated attacks, successful defendings, attacks on online targets etc count.
 

The timer on the ladder should stay as was. It worked fine, and we had a hard time speculating in when we should hit (aka when it was initially launched, ppl only hit within the last hour or so). Maybe check up on the "random time generator" as there was a system to it..or at least it seemed so

And as much as I hate to say so, and I really really really do ... I am not sure XP loss should be a part of the ladder, if we are aiming to have more participants who may like the XP they have gotten through hunting.
Not having XP loss would also remove the idea of a guild owning a bracket, simply by massive attendance - since they can not do any real harm.

Think that is it for now... flame me away, I know... and I never thought I would speak up for no XP loss on something PvP related, but hey ... didn't we use to agree on the ladder not being "real" PvP anyways?

 

Oh, and for the love of anything unholy; Do not reactivate the ladder, b4 you have worked on it. Better to leave it out entirely, till it has been re-done.

[DomCorvis]

so ill get 500-599?