21 replies to this topic

[Neon]

Just thought it would be sensible to start this thread since quite a few other threads discussing pricing and gold problems within the game.

 

I'm not going to go into huge detail, it would take too long to name every single item (and I also don't know every single item ).

 

Basically I think the following may need to be adjusted, I'll set-up a poll so if HCS are interested they can use this feedback to make some changes or leave it how it is.

 

Repair costs need a slight reduction, repair costs seem to be quite high (while personally I haven't been playing for awhile I have seen this been discussed quite abit). 

Note that we have all previously had tons of free Eldevin points to work with (even then relying on just gold from professions/drops was still hard), the only viable time to test this theory is in this stage of the beta.

 

Crafting professions need a SLIGHT increase to the vendor prices of the items, while I 100% agree with crafting never being profitable when selling equipment to vendors I do believe most crafted items need a slight boost to their vendor prices.. I'm not certain about the current state of all items but I think the price of an item that is crafted should be around 40% of what the raw materials are worth when selling to a vendor.

 

I'm more relying on those who have played quite alot just before this round of beta, and those who are playing this round of beta to give their thoughts/votes on this. Please try not to have a biased opinion.

Edited by Neon, 16 November 2013 - 17:51.

[Sage]

I don't agree with the 'slight' increase, we supply nearly all the ingredients, plus time and effort spent collecting them.  That in itself should be worth something.  I am paying more for the secondary ingredients than for completed crafted items sell for.  Why craft at all if not for some profit.

[Neon]

I don't agree with the 'slight' increase, we supply nearly all the ingredients, plus time and effort spent collecting them.  That in itself should be worth something.  I am paying more for the secondary ingredients than for completed crafted items sell for.  Why craft at all if not for some profit.

This is kinda a biased opinion because you're not thinking about everything in the longrun.

 

You have to think of the crafting profession on it's own band and the gathering as a second band.

What I mean is that once you "Gather" the resources, it's your choice whether to sell them to people who have the gold to spend on faster crafting professions or to keep them yourself and level your crafting professions.

 

The way the system should work (in my opinion and I think HCS agree, because it's the suite they're following) is:

 

Gathering = Profitable, time consuming

Crafting = Non-profitable, not that slow/fast dependent on the way they're executed. However it will be possible to make money on crafting for the rare/heroic items, whatever they are.. or the special potions etc.. if you sell to players.

Edited by Neon, 16 November 2013 - 18:47.

[Alpion]

I don't feel profit from crafting items should be based on a player economy.  You craft so you can create higher level useful items AND to make a profit.  I mean the only way to look at is if a player is going to lose money while crafting, then they most definitely should be losing money while questing, i.e. repairs should be even more expensive than they are now.  I don't think it's fair in any way that someone can run instances and MAKE money by selling loot when another person who likes to craft instead should be LOSING money.  Running instances is almost always guaranteed to be profit (quests, loot, rewards, shards, etc.) while crafting is just "hoping" you can sell an item once you get to a high level...because you know almost no one is going to bother with buying anything crafted until *maybe* level 30+ and possibly not even until end game.  Even then, you're still just hoping.

 

Yes, this is a biased opinion, but it's based on fairness of gameplay and simple logic (in my mind).

[Bryn]

Right now, it looks like I am getting back about 10% of what I am putting into tailoring.  Returns like that are going to lead to very few crafters who end up charging exorbitant prices for set helms and heroics. 

 

Even a 40% return is a little low to me.  I would like to see something like 70% return for levels 1-10, 60% return for levels 11-20, 50% return for levels 21-30, and 40% return for levels 31-40.

[Sage]

Neon just because I have a different opinion and view it does not make it biased.  I like to craft and would much rather do that than anything in the game.  Buying high and selling low is not in any way going to allow me to advance in the game monetarily.  It is a goal to make some gold while playing so I can buy better gear and any other items I might need in the game.  Simple as that.

 

One thing I will add is I have now stopped crafting all together because it is not profitable and at one point spent all my coins I had earned to buy the secondary materials only to not receive what I spent back.  So I am done with crafting for now.

Edited by Sage, 17 November 2013 - 00:37.

[Neon]

Neon just because I have a different opinion and view it does not make it biased

I understand everyone has a different opinion however I judged your statement as a more biased opinion because you were not considering the effects on the game and general players.

 

 I like to craft and would much rather do that than anything in the game.  Buying high and selling low is not in any way going to allow me to advance in the game monetarily.  It is a goal to make some gold while playing so I can buy better gear and any other items I might need in the game.  Simple as that.

 

One thing I will add is I have now stopped crafting all together because it is not profitable and at one point spent all my coins I had earned to buy the secondary materials only to not receive what I spent back.  So I am done with crafting for now.

You're talking about yourself here, this makes your opinion biased as you are only really considering what's best for you.

 

This isn't a personal attack, so sorry if it seems I'm being a tad insensitive.. but I think it would be better to accumulate results that can suite all players and also keep the economy, gold flow and professions balanced (assuming HCS even act upon the votes cast here).

 

Edit:

 

If you feel that there are better numbers for this poll (for example 70% of price) and a HUGE reduction to the repair costs, go ahead and posts the reasons here.. I'm sure HCS will note your reasons.. just try to keep the reasons non-biased (I feel like I'm over using this word now lol)..

 

I'm not trying to manipulate any prices myself, I just thought I'd start the thread so it could all come together in one place.

Edited by Neon, 17 November 2013 - 00:48.

[Sage]

Yes your remarks are insensitive and personally directed.  Firstly a poll is based on everyone's personal experience so they all will be biased to a degree.  Just as your remarks are very biased for whatever reason.  I stand by my remarks and as 70% of this poll seems to agree so far, I don't think I am wrong.  And until something changes I will craft as little as possible, as many others have also chosen to do.  The poll won't make a difference anyway.  No need to respond to me any further.

[Shylark57]

Clicked no for this >>Repair costs need a Slight reduction wanted to Click yes.. Have some issues with stuff on this lap top.. Sorry

[xrxr1]

I like to craft items and also do the quests. As already stated especially in the early levels of the game it is not profitable to craft items. You have to spend alot of time gathering items just to sell to the vendors to make money so you can rebuild any that you have lost building up the professions. Meanwhile as your crafting levels improve then you need to gather higher level resources so you must also spend a lot of time still doing the quests and grinding mobs to get xp so you can move to the higher level areas. At the moment I have been seeing little difference in the crafting xp of a low level item compared to one at say level 6 - I do believe there was a bigger difference before the wipe . Please correct me if anyone has a different opinion of this.

The way things are at the moment, is anyone just questing will more than likely outgrow the crafters efforts and will find better equipment than what is made until you get to the later levels in the game. The main thing that you might have a chance of selling would be items specifically required for quests to be completed, ie cooked ham, lithistle logs, bass etc.

[Jan Janik]

Would have preferred to vote for a "major" rather than "slight" change but any movement would be good.

[l3fty]

I wonder what we're going to be talking about at the studio tomorrow

 

We are absolutely paying attention to all the feedback. This is the great thing about having you guys willing to test the game at the 11th hour

 

I expect that the changes in sell/repair costs have had a larger effect than was intended, we'll know more when we bash everyones heads together tomorrow.

[Removed6222]

These changes will affect everyone even more when the game goes live.  It is hard to get crafting levels up, when you have to sell resources to be able to afford to craft.  I have not even hit the 1 gold mark yet.  I gather to sell, then gather to craft, and keep repeating it.  I voted yes, to both, but would definitely like to see a larger reduction in repair costs and a larger increase in what vendors pay for equipment.

[daggar]

I've noticed that crafting items is not worth it cost me 1 silver per item to craft at lvl 1 whats it going to be at higher lvls it's going to cost a lot of gold to get to the lvls you need to craft your relic helmet doesn't seem to me that the relic set is worth it. Seems like a USD money pit

[LittleJack]

I voted for the slight increase in vendor prices. But I don't see why I need to loose money at all? What's wrong with breaking even?

[Bryn]

I voted for the slight increase in vendor prices. But I don't see why I need to loose money at all? What's wrong with breaking even?

The game needs a gold sink to establish/maintain what will hopefully be a vibrant economy. 

[LemmyKilms]

The way that I see it, if you start a business in real life, you don't turn a profit for quite some time.  I figure that when one is learning how to make something, there is going to be a lot of items getting tossed or recycled.  Hopefully in time one can become more proficient in their craft and continue to improve over time to the point of becoming an artist of that craft and commanding top dollar for their items.   That seems to me to be the case in the game (Refined and Exceptional tiers) .  But the costs of polishes, flux, etc. is a bit extreme, at least at the beginning.  If the vendors paid a more reasonable price, it wouldn't hurt the pocketbook so much.  Granted, the investment of time and sacrifice of quest rewards will reduce the numbers of people pursuing that path, perhaps there could be some way to compensate the crafters for their efforts and have their things put into a world market and have fewer random creature drops.   If crafting is to be part of the game, there needs to be an incentive to have people pursue artisanship and remain doing so.

[Irradiated]

During the earlier beta far too many people crafted.  After all, it was easy money if a bit tedious.  Difficult to sell anything other then to vendors, but that earned plenty.  I'd mostly give stuff away, always if mats were provided.  Clearly something had to be done if HCS wants a vibrant economy based on trade.  The current setup was like a solo game where you basically always have more then you need and trading plays a minimal role.

 

Every MMO that encourages trade has some limiting factor on crafting.  In WoW (as is most common) they just limit how many professions a player can do.  Then make it very time consuming with scattered resources.  It was an incredible time sink, unless you could afford to buy resources from other players.  And except for a few specials items, very little money to be made until the higher levels.

 

HCS clearly prefers not to tread where others have gone.  So first they tried having a greater reliance on the rare drops (ethereals, etc), but that didn't work well.

 

So now they are making it expensive.  To afford it, players must pick and choose what professions to level.  Perhaps they went too far, but the idea makes sense.  It just needs tuning.

 

Which leads to this question.  At the top levels (if anyone has reached these) does crafting begin to pay?  Do the vendors pay proportionately more or less?  And, if we had an AH and full player base, are there items you could sell along the way?  What would you suggest for these?

 

------ first idea for above ------

Rather then have HCS sell the smaller cash bags, perhaps they could be crafted by tailors and/or leatherworkers?

Edited by Irradiated, 18 November 2013 - 12:15.

[Alpion]

I think if you have crafters make the bags, then HCS will lose money and/or a gold sink.  If bags can be crafted, it should be only the small ones (3x3 at the largest, maybe 5x5 at level 40+), and I think you should still have to buy a token or something to unlock the bag slot.  I have no idea what HCS has planned for the unlocking of the bag slots since they didn't add it this update and don't seem to want to tell us how it will work yet.

 

At top levels, at least in the previous updates, it was really not worth it to craft.  For the time spent, it was far easier for me to go farm mobs by killing them than to craft any items for sale.  The only reason I pushed all crafts to 30 was to say that I was able to...but it wasn't worth it.  And, in a setting where the game is live, there really aren't any items that I could have made a profit on by selling to the player base.  Yes, many things have changed since the last update, but I still don't see much of a player desire for crafted items with how this game plays out as of this time.

 

I would love crafting to be integral to this game.  We'll just have to wait to see how they roll it out to us.

[021962]

When we first started this phase of beta. I would have agreed with the raise the price on crafted and lower repair. But! Now that I have put in the time to level some of the crafts. I think the balance is probably about right. Yes, I am always broke. Yes, it is painful to spend an hour gathering resources, just to sell them for cash to level something else. But having put in the time. I don't think anything should change. Reason! If everything is easy or even just slightly hard, what are we going to spend time on one month or even two months down the road? The game appears to be designed to give a player something to do in their spare time. Yes reaching EOC in a week would be awesome. But then what are you going to do. The way the current set up is working, more players are around for more interaction. I consider that to be a major plus. No more logging in for an hour, then finding something else to do.