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#41 PhatYeti

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 18:34

Yeah i agree with this too. I'd like to be able to zoom out more too so i can see more of the world around me. I feel its a little too zoomed in at the moment aswell.

 

I'm having to move the camera constantly to see the doors and I can't see infront of me which is sometimes needed. A more dynamic camera view would be great!



#42 Kendiosa

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 20:44

This is also my main gripe with the game to date. I find myself staring at the map when moving around the world, not at the wold itself. 

I'm happy to be without an over-the-shoulder view and the suggestion to be able to zoom out a bit further would be ideal.



#43 Exia

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 22:49

Would it be possible to add an option to 'unlock' the camera angle? Maybe with like a warning that it would decrease performance for some users (personally for me it wouldn't be an issue)? It's seriously annoying when I'm running around outside the city and want to dodge monsters that are 10 levels above me, it's hard to do when I can barely see in front.


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#44 Xero

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 22:10

The mini map used to rotate with the player, which I massively preferred. It was recently changed with a toggle button option, but it no longer works for some reason. I too hate the fixed mini map! Will make sure the toggle gets put back in. ;)

 

As for the camera angle, I'll do some tests for it tomorrow and show you guys some figures. Right now there is 50 degrees of freedom. I suspect adding as little as 10 would half the frame rate. Adding a further 5 would quarter it. The performance loss ramps up with each degree added.


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#45 acidic

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:48

The mini map used to rotate with the player, which I massively preferred. It was recently changed with a toggle button option, but it no longer works for some reason. I too hate the fixed mini map! Will make sure the toggle gets put back in. ;)

 

As for the camera angle, I'll do some tests for it tomorrow and show you guys some figures. Right now there is 50 degrees of freedom. I suspect adding as little as 10 would half the frame rate. Adding a further 5 would quarter it. The performance loss ramps up with each degree added.

 

Glad to here the mini map might get fixed. 

 

I really hope you can add some more forward view angle.  As I start to wander further out, I am running into mobs I have no chance against because I couldn't see them. I thought I was running into a bunny and get a group of treants on my butt that kill me in one or two hits.



#46 Belaric

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:02

Viewing angle has a dramatic affect on performance. Every degree of viewing angle added gives an exponential increase of polygons in view, which slows the game down. What we have now is pretty much a "tipping point" with significant performance loss for adding more angle, for little added benefit. Until we add hardware support later down the line the viewing angle will have to remain the same for now.

 

Zooming out a bit more will give everyone a slight performance hit too, but nowhere near as much as changing viewing angle. It's something we could definitely increase, I'll look into it for you guys.

 

Please also remember this game was built as a top-down point-and-click RPG, so our 3d content was designed and created with this in mind. The game will likely never have an over-the-shoulder 3rd person view with WASD movement. Like I said before though, this may change once we add hardware support.

Thanks. This pretty much completely amswers my questions on this subject.

 

The problem is that not having over the shoulder perspective plus having to support Java (Has Java solved its security problems?) to run this game when no other MMORPG needs it, to me limits your audience. I don't trust Java anymore.

 

Sorry.


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#47 SDGR

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:10

having to support Java (Has Java solved its security problems?) to run this game when no other MMORPG needs it, to me limits your audience. I don't trust Java anymore.

 

IMO Eldevin was designed with a specific type of audience in mind and in that niche other games are Java based as well (Drakensang, Runescape, etc). If you want to play a browser MMO with no download (or a minuscule one) that's the trade-off you have to accept.

 

On the other hand, even after days of non stop playing, I still find the current camera view angle annoying because you have a very limited view (it's like seeing everything through a binocular) and can't detect the potential dangers until it's right in your face...



#48 Mongo

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 16:54

Now I have got used to the game, I do not really feel the view angle is a problem anymore, that is just my opinion though 


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#49 Xero

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 20:08

Ok, done a test of freeing up the camera angle/zoom, here's the results;

 

  • Adding 10 Zoom = 7% FPS Loss (See slightly more in front and to side)
  • Adding 10 Angle = 30% FPS Loss (See much further in front)
  • Adding 5 Angle & 5 Zoom = 17% FPS Loss (See further in front, slighly more to sides)
  • Adding 10 Angle & 10 Zoom = 38% FPS Loss (See much further into distance, and to sides

From this I could see the benefit of adding angle to see more ahead, but adding zoom to see more to side seemed wasteful. The issues were;

  • Performance Loss
  • Network Node "Popping" (seeing further meant all interactive objects being tracked by server would pop into view from nowhere.

The Network Node issue is impossible to solve without a major rework of the engine, so I decided on a compromise for both that and performance.

 

I have therefore added 5 degrees of camera angle at the expense of 13% performance loss. The result I'm sure will satisfy most of you. Until we add hardware support and have time to spend on reworking network code, this is the best I can do for now. Will be available in the next build.


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#50 acelious

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 21:08

Up down left right arrows should be for moving the camera. 

 

Mouse wheel for zoom, and right click drag for faster movement than arrow keys.

 

Take Runescape as an example, their camera system is pretty much how Eldevin's should be!

 

I'd also like options to be able to bind hotkeys to certain views (top down, looking ahead etc)

i definitly agree with the runescape example something like that i think would solve most of the problems



#51 SDGR

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 23:40

Way better ;)



#52 Otter

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:23

Ok, done a test of freeing up the camera angle/zoom, here's the results;

 

  • Adding 10 Zoom = 7% FPS Loss (See slightly more in front and to side)
  • Adding 10 Angle = 30% FPS Loss (See much further in front)
  • Adding 5 Angle & 5 Zoom = 17% FPS Loss (See further in front, slighly more to sides)
  • Adding 10 Angle & 10 Zoom = 38% FPS Loss (See much further into distance, and to sides

From this I could see the benefit of adding angle to see more ahead, but adding zoom to see more to side seemed wasteful. The issues were;

  • Performance Loss
  • Network Node "Popping" (seeing further meant all interactive objects being tracked by server would pop into view from nowhere.

The Network Node issue is impossible to solve without a major rework of the engine, so I decided on a compromise for both that and performance.

 

I have therefore added 5 degrees of camera angle at the expense of 13% performance loss. The result I'm sure will satisfy most of you. Until we add hardware support and have time to spend on reworking network code, this is the best I can do for now. Will be available in the next build.

Thanks alot Xero, i understand completely where you are coming from with the Software engine problems. i appreciate the time and effort to make a positive change within the limits of the game, without hurting performance *too* much.



#53 Erid

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:52

The recent change is much much better! However:

 

I know it's a tall ask, but I'd love to see an option to unlock the camera.

 

Being a developer for my own games I like to be able to see what's actually possible for myself!

 

Adding an unlocked camera mode would probably be extremely simple, and would allow those of us who want to see what the game could be like.

 

Especially when there's a lot of hardcore gamers in the beta with full on high end gaming rigs, sacrificing performance for play-ability is a no brainer.

 

Since it's a beta, I'd love to see these sort of things implemented.

 

Cheers guys at Hunted Cow. :D

 



#54 Ravenlock

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:29

Could we also have an option in the settings for maybe using wasd as direction keys and the mouse for camera angles? I find that I am constintaly hitting caps lock while using camera to angle around some areas. But all in all, I am happy with the controls and the flow of the game.



#55 Geoh

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 15:54

Since this thread already exists -- I have a few suggestions.

 

1. If I keep the minimap non-rotating, I lose my directional frame of reference (especially now that WASD is implemented) at times. A way to reset the camera rotation back to north would be hugely helpful.

2. If I keep the minimap rotating, I always have a directional frame of reference. However I loose my place quite often. The North indicator on the mini-map is really small and since the game is top-down POV I have no way to view in the distance objects or buildings for reference. So... I end up keeping the overview map up far longer than I'd like. It takes up quite a bit of screen and makes the problem worse. Is there a way to maybe give the overview map transparency and/or give it a slider pane so we don't have to see the icon definitions and thus making the map smaller?



#56 KeltangDeetz

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 22:05

Fixing this would make it more enjoyable..




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