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Official Topic: Guild Raids


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Poll: Do you like this idea? (70 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like this idea?

  1. Hell Yeah - bring it on! (131 votes [32.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.91%

  2. Yeah (20 votes [5.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.03%

  3. Sounds Ok (48 votes [12.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.06%

  4. Don't like this (54 votes [13.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.57%

  5. Awful idea :( (145 votes [36.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.43%

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#161 ScarletTestAce

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 06:11

OK I have read the whole thread I have looked at 30% of the guilds in the top 250.
Please read all of this post and read it carefully. Do not pass jugdement until the end.
Simple fact there is no way to balance the guild raid system out. Plan and simple just not possible there are to many different factors to look at.

1)guild level has nothing to do with guild ability (ex. Shadow Hive - lvl 27 guild - 1 Member)

2)guild member levels to wide spread (ex. HellKnights, Gods of chaos, Lightblue)

3)guilds with few people don't stand a chance. Expecially if group attacks are included. (ex. 5 member guild would loss to a group attack that could contain as many as 25 member {5 leads * 5 member per group})

4)Cash overpowering (ex. level 15 fully forged Dragons set will take out a person who doesn't have that type of money upto if not higher level 20)

5)Merc Alliances (ex. 1 guild attacks pays 2 others to attack 1-3 hours right after them. Defending guild now stands a chance to have 9 levels of structures destroyed)

These are just facts. Like said several times already powerful stay powerful, the weak stay weak. Or the weak will grow very very slowly at great expense (gold).

I have seen the opt in/opt out option mention but alot want it to be a permanent. This can not be if a newbie doesn't know how hard it will be to climb up the ladder they may opt in and then suffer.

Now before you people who want this start complaining. Please continue to read on there is a solution.

I have seen this mentioned a few times and it is by far the best way to have a GvG system. Tournaments weather they be daily/weekly/biweekly/monthly whatever.
This type of system can have several levels of competition and a few different modes.

Here is a sample of the break downs.
Singles
lvls 1-5 - winner earns 1 GvG point
lvls 6-10 - winner earns 2 GvG points
lvls 11-15 - winner earns 3 GvG points
and so on

Groups (1 lead, 4 others boost standard 20% with level caps for boosters) again
lvls 1-5 - winners earns 2 GvG points
lvls 6-10 - winners earns 3 GvG points
lvls 11-15 - winners earns 4 GvG points
and so on

Gangs (5 leads, 4 others boost per lead standard 20% with level caps for boosters) again
lvls 1-5 - winners earns 4 GvG points
lvls 6-10 - winners earns 5 GvG points
lvls 11-15 - winners earns 6 GvG points

Along with winning GvG point winners could get back a % of their spent stamina back and/or Gold and/or FSP.(I'm sure players would like to see the FSP option. :P ) These are just a few ideas.

Now to look at it business point. How could this generate cash for the company? Very easily change guild builds into Tournament Totems (or whatever name you want to call it)

Samples: All totems work only during Tournaments only

Attack totem requires
lvl 1 (+2 attack) basic everyone can build for 5 FSP
lvl 2 (+4 attack) need 500 GvG points to build cost 5 FSP
etc etc.

Stamina totem requires
lvl 1 (+2% stamina return if winner) basic everyone can build for 5 FSP
lvl 2 (+4% stamina return if winner) needed 1000 GvG points to build cost 5 FSP
etc etc.

Defense, armor, Hitpoints, whatever. Possible new enhancements totems

Now for visual point of view you can have different tournaments held in different areas. With like a coliseum look. Totem pole that have been purchased/constructed in the background or randomly placed for an area effect.
Players having to show up. By walking to the coliseum by way of the teleport you have already mentioned will be placed all around the realms.

Yes bigger guilds will have more options avaible to them. This should drive other guilds to build up as to be able to compete. Possible yearly reset of the GvG ladder so other guilds can have a run for the top. Past winners/leaders get etched into a stone tablet that can be seen on home page or next to colisem.

End note: I have played a lot of war type free MMORP. All being unbalanced Due to older players already established and/or cash powerhouses. Please do not let this game go in the same direction. I have taken the time to write this.(took a while slow typer :roll: ) Please take the time to read it.


nice idea

#162 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 06:46

why dont you just make it that this only applies to lv 70+ guilds?

this is gonna mess things up the most for lvl 70+ guilds...
our structures cost a hell of a lot


but im sure your guild can protect themselves against even 5 of the top players in the game all hoof needs is a teleporter system that will allow you to go back to protect your guild b4 you logout each day

possible defenders:100
-30 inactives.
now - about 50 players who would not be on at the time (timezone differences), and wouldn't want to waste stam to get the the guild base and back.
now, - those of us that are training at the time, and temporaroily AFK.

we're left with about 10 defenders... possibly a couple more.

that against 5 lvl 78's (more if we're allowed to upgrade it)
we're about screwed...


this is why i am saying all this system needs is a teleport system from anywhere for say 25 stamina (teleport to guild castle) so you can teleport and put your guy for defence of the building that needs it (since all the ppl in each bulding stack) you got several guys for each building you own
Then when you log back in you use the teleporter/portal to travel to your lvlng area just like current portals) and if you lvlng and attack comes you telport in to defend your guild

#163 fs_geoff

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:04

either way we'd need AT LEAST 10 mins warning b4 an attack hit...
otherwise, everyone online would need to be looking at the screen constantly, and refreshing every minute to stop them from getting in and instantly knocking over buildings...

#164 fs_borisdrago

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:34

either way we'd need AT LEAST 10 mins warning b4 an attack hit...
otherwise, everyone online would need to be looking at the screen constantly, and refreshing every minute to stop them from getting in and instantly knocking over buildings...


this is true a 15 to 30 min warning would be needed

#165 fs_hellsguard

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 15:52

The only side that really benifits are the Guild Attack Groups getting a chance to De-Level Structures and Plunder up to 10% from the Guild Banks Total. It seems like a struggle for the defending side therefore i disagree though i have some suggestions

When a Guild Attack Group is not successful when attempting to Destroy a Structure, there should be a penalty for the Guild Attack Group, Perhaps when a Guild Attack Group Fails to Destory a Structure, the Guild Attack Group should Lose 25% of there Items Durability Points, A percentage of Gold or Experience Points

I also disagree with the De-Leveling of Structures

I think everyone would be happy if Guild Structures had Durability Points like items do, and when a Structure is attacked it will lose Durability Points until Destoyed, Then once Destroyed instead of De-Leveling the Structure instead the Guild members will not recieve Structure Bonuses from the destroyed Structure until the Structures Durability Points have been Repaired, Which should only cost 15% of how much the Structure costs.

I also disagree with the ability to Plunder 10%, i think the minimum should be 3% and a maximum 6%.

#166 fs_shylesson

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 16:02

ok, 1 more big problem that i see (there are about 10 major ones, and ive posted solutions to them on an earlier page. hoof will see them, but i will repeat if anyone wants to see)

surprise.
how are we going to know when theyre about to attack?
i dont see many ppl staying to defend, as its going to cost stam to get there and back. on top of that, we can't train in there! and no1 is gonna stand at the base waiting for the enemy to attack

SOLUTIONS:
-make the attack take an hour to arrive, and notify all members when one's coming

-make a new option under the world subsection, named guild base. click that and you're instantly transported to ur base.
this one should come with a 10 min delay for attackers, since we would still have to move into position, and we arent all paying constant attention to the game when we play.


I don't think we should have to wait an hour to attack another guild. 15 minutes sure, but an hour is illogical. We don't even get a warning when we are to be pvped so we can change equip to defensive equip, so why should we have to give an hour warning to a guild we are about to attack just so they can get their best men online and ready easier?

I think there should just be more world teleporters if the system is implemented or else both attackers and defenders should have the opportunity to instant teleport. It would not be fair that the attackers should waste much stamina and time in finding a world teleport in order to organize an attack and all defenders have to do is press instant teleport.

I still miss if this was answered before, but if our guild is being attacked, do we have the option to repair our structures? I see in the first post it says the HP is not rechargeable and I think this is highly unjust. While we have made no official enemies in this game, anyone could just for the pure sakes of they can, attack and delevel this or that structure. Strategically, I would delevel the most expensive structures to force the guild to have to pay more to upgrade it again. And you say we can destroy 1 structure or delevel 3!! Either would be a terrible hardship on many many guilds. Yes, I could handle it and work around it, but dang, it would really just tick a lot of people off to see weeks and weeks of saving and hard work thrown away in 1 hour of an attack that we aren't able to defend fully. I think we should be able to repair our structures as we are being attacked. We do so to our equips in pvp, we should be able to do so to our structures in gvg.

ETA: I like the dude's idea in the post above me in regards to the structures.

#167 fs_kaldirris

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 17:18

Does it really matter what we all think? Administration has already made up thier minds what is going to happen. All that is left is to push the little green button labled "go". I just do not understand why this game must change and "conform" to all the other "guild war games" out there. Is it not running just fine the way it is? You have pvp and bountys.... why must there be more?


Of COURSE it matters what we think. We, as players, are a major (possibly only?) source of actual income for HCS. OBVIOUSLY, the devs aren't going to implement a system that will drive hordes of players away.

Personally, I think that the basic idea of guild wars is sound. The only real issue seems to be how to maintain game balance within the new system.

I like the TOURNAMENT idea (been proposed by a number of players now). My personal opinion is that TOURNAMENTS would probably be the least controversial option to take. But, (I don't know if this was mentioned before or not, sorry) I think that tournaments would of course have to be divided into appropriate *class levels*. IE; lvl 1-5 guilds, 5-10, etc.

HOWEVER, I don't think this discussion is being helped by comments such as those made by HuphlungPu. (and others, but his is the comment I quoted)

And, for the record, I seem to remember a great deal of furious debate about the bounty system as well, and look at how well that seems to have worked!

I say, bring on the guild wars, but do all humanly possible to maintain game balance...FallenSword is a FANTASTIC RPG, and I'd hate to see it become a WoW clone.

*Give us balance, and give us Guild Wars!*

Peace out, kids!

#168 fs_matto

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 21:39

since when is sounds ok to me means i dont care ? people who dont care dont post and if you take that math you got 200k registered players / even if only 3 % of them play that is 6000 ppl my friend and only 250 or so ppl voted so if you do your math ppl who are against are less then 2 % of ppl who play this game and so are the ppl who are for it.


Wow man, how old are you, 12? Ever heard of statistics? Well when you hit puberty and get a chance to learn about them, you will have the pleasure of testing a sample population. It's a process where you ask a question of a smaller percentage of a target population called a sample group which represents the overall group. The reason this data is considered sound (and this process is used by EVERYONE!) is because short of a complete census, it accurately records the opinions of a larger group without having to complete said census. It's a proven fact that even a tenth of a percent of a population surveyed can accurately depict what the overall population would think. Considering this, the poll would in fact be accurate once 200+ people have voted, and guess what, currently 260 have voted. Therefore, through statistics, we can assume with great accuracy that the results of the poll reflect the opinions of the fallensword community.


i've been out of college for several years now and know enough about statistics to know that they are bull because ppl who answered this poll are the ones who actually care about the issue and the rest of server population doesnt have an opinion either way othervise they would come and vote so unless there is only 400+ ppl play this game this poll reflects only oppinions of ppl who feel strongly about this issue the rest didnt respond. Its only ppl like you who whine all the time who post all these answers and people like me who want more content to the game. The rest dont care. And even then my point was that either way there is just as many people who want this change as thouse who dont. I voted that i dont like the idea when i read initial post but with all the changes that hoof proposed this system should work with some minor modifications that can be worked out.
So the only thing that reamins is your dumb comments about my age and understanding of the issue at hand. And that makes me wonder about your age and maturity level.


lol, that's pretty funny considering i get paid quite a lot of money to use math (such as statistics) every day at work... and i've been out of college for a few years myself, though i couldn't tell with you when you used your obviously massive intellect to realize that out of the 250 people who voted, the 30% who were in favor were less than 2% of 200,000+! Wow! How ever did you figure that out! That's as profound as saying that less than 100% of people in the world are men! Damn... that's amazing...

#169 fs_matto

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 21:42

Matto that would imply that this is a representative method of taking a survey, which it isnt as only those people who feel strongly either way about the issue will read the thread or post their opinion on the issue.

So while an accurate statistical summary can be obtained from a survey of 10% or less or a popluation. The survey method itself must also be analysed to ensure that it is a random sample of the population. In this case it isnt random by a long shot as people choose to post and arent randomly presented with this in anyway and that this sample is representative of the whole population. In this case also false due to the lack of randomness and the strong opinions about the topic. So techincally the above poll is not in anyway representative of the opinions of the players of Fallensword and isnt really that important.


Actually, it is random. Not all the people who feel strongly have posted, and about 40% of the people who have taken the survey have exibited that they don't feel that strongly one way or another. You're saying people who have posted.... what does that have to do with it? Not everyone who took the poll posted, and my response was based solely on the people that took the poll.

It's also proven that no survey can be determined to be 100% random. By trying to make it random, you in fact alter the results. Therefore, an anonymous poll that is based on choice alone with no pressure from outside elements to complete it, means this is as close to random as any survey can get.


god you are dumb the people that dont feel strongly about this one way or the other still have the opinion on the issue therefore its not random
go back to school and get your GED


^^ You do realize that makes no sense, right? People having an opinion has nothing to do with a poll being random. People who are polled express an opinion. In a good sample group, you have people who don't care one way or another, unless you picked people to answer. At that point, it wouldn't be random. Good job, thanks for proving my point for me :)

#170 fs_ananasii

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 00:30

Ok, a few suggestions (some of these may have been suggested before, and some definatly have, but I cant be bothered to read all 26 pages and sort through them all)

Opt-in system - definatly needed, as many player hate any PvP related elements of games, and some refuse to play games with anything remotely PvP.

Opt-in rewards - again, you definatly need to reward guilds that do chose to participate (otherwise no one would) - let them build stonger, cheaper buildings that Opt-outers cant (not just raid related one either) or allow them a couple of extra structures at no upgrade cost.

Raid Defenses - how about having Watch Towers, Walls, Guard Posts, and other riad related buildings seperate from standard Stuctures, with a cheaper upgrade for maximum numbers?

Stucture Costs - If an enemy guild can destroy stuctures, the cost of existing stuctures really needs to be lowered (why take 50k from our bank, when they can destroy a bulding worth several hundred thousand gold?)

Victory conditions - Deleveling 3 structures in 1 raid is too much. 1, maybe 2 at most. 3 just allows a guild to cripple another too quickly.

Bank Defense - The bank should be the easiest target for attackers (without defender interferance) to make it a more tempting target.

Teleportation - Returning to the guild to defend it should be FREE and INSTANT via a constant option to return there. Return to the world map, should NOT. The world map should be accessable as if the character had activated a standard world portal.

#171 fs_zen1979

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 02:39

what if we only wants to be left alone in our small little guild? can't we have an option not to participate in this guild war?

I really don't mind having less structure but can't u just let us play happily as a guild?

& when other guild raid us, will they continue to raid us if we've losts all our structures & all our guild gold?

finally, as I've paid so much for this game, I hope I deserve my right not to participate in such a guild raid.

Thank you.

Regards,
zen1979

#172 fs_hellsguard

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 03:47

Perhaps giving each Guild the option to decide each week if they want to participate in the Guild Raids, therefore only the Guilds that choose to participate that week are able to Attack others Guilds that have decided to participate.

Add a Guild Points System which would be used to rate the top 25 Guilds
by the end of the Guild Raid week with prizes for 1st,2nd and 3rd place.

Maybe a prize of Gold, Fsp's or Item for the Guild with the most Guild Points by the end of the week. I think prizes would encourage Players to actually participate whilst players are still given the option to decide not to participate.

I also agree with Ananasii refering to the teleport idea. You should be able to Teleport from the Guild Menu for Stamina Points.

When a Guild Raid is initiated it should take a minimium of at least 5minutes, There should also be a Guild Message informing all Guild Memebers of any attack.

I still disagree with Deleveling of Structures, like i said before everyone would be happy if Guild Structures had Durability Points, so when a Structure loses all it's Durability Points the Guild no longer recieves the bonuses from that Structure until it's repaired.

I'm sure everyone would agree with Repairing the Destroyed Structures for 15% of the current Structures Cost.

Please take into consideration.

#173 fs_taven

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 04:28

i say give it a week in the game
after that let all attacks finish and then stop them....
then take another poll.... if its bad take guild attacks out of the game....
simple enough i say...
like it or not...

#174 fs_geoff

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 05:01

ok, 1 more big problem that i see (there are about 10 major ones, and ive posted solutions to them on an earlier page. hoof will see them, but i will repeat if anyone wants to see)

surprise.
how are we going to know when theyre about to attack?
i dont see many ppl staying to defend, as its going to cost stam to get there and back. on top of that, we can't train in there! and no1 is gonna stand at the base waiting for the enemy to attack

SOLUTIONS:
-make the attack take an hour to arrive, and notify all members when one's coming

-make a new option under the world subsection, named guild base. click that and you're instantly transported to ur base.
this one should come with a 10 min delay for attackers, since we would still have to move into position, and we arent all paying constant attention to the game when we play.


I don't think we should have to wait an hour to attack another guild. 15 minutes sure, but an hour is illogical. We don't even get a warning when we are to be pvped so we can change equip to defensive equip, so why should we have to give an hour warning to a guild we are about to attack just so they can get their best men online and ready easier?



becuase in PVP you lose a bit of gold (rarely more than what can be gained after a day or 2 of playing...), and occasionally a bit of xp...

with the proposed raids, u have the possibility to lose about a week's worth of money from the bank, which is meant to be a safe place where we can store gold! it is supposed to be that we can put it in there if we have too much gold, to STOP us from being a target FFS!

on top of this, you would lose structures with values as high as 500k... a successful attack could take even the best guilds weeks to repair...

structures are a main point in recruiting members...
if we lose them, we lose appeal. if we lose that, not only are existing members missing out on bonuses, but new members would too (if we could even get them to join!)

#175 fs_geoff

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 05:02

i say give it a week in the game
after that let all attacks finish and then stop them....
then take another poll.... if its bad take guild attacks out of the game....
simple enough i say...
like it or not...


by that time, some guilds could already have lost millions in structural damages and bank raids

#176 fs_posiedon

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:38

it is a great idea :P and some people are saying this is bad idea .they say this because they are scared :twisted:

#177 fs_hellsguard

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 12:46

Please read through carefully :shock:

The only side that really benefits are the Guild Attack Groups getting a chance to De-Level Structures and Plunder up to 10% from the Guild Banks Total. It seems like a struggle for the defending side therefore I disagree though I have some suggestions

1. When a Guild Attack Group is not successful when attempting to Destroy a Structure, there should be a penalty for the Guild Attack Group, Perhaps when a Guild Attack Group Fails to Destroy a Structure, the Guild Attack Group should Lose 25% of there Items Durability Points, A percentage of Gold or Experience Points for attempting to Destroy a Structure.

2. I think the Bank should be more difficult to Destroy than the Structures.

3. Perhaps giving each Guild the option to decide each week if they want to participate in the Guild Raids, therefore only the Guilds that choose to participate that week are able to Attack others Guilds that have decided to participate.

4. Add a Guild Points System which would be used to rate the top 25 Guilds
by the end of the Guild Raid week with prizes for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.

5. Maybe a prize of Gold, Fsp's or Item for the Guild with the most Guild Points by the end of the week. I think prizes would encourage Players to actually participate whilst players are still given the option to decide not to participate.

6. I also agree with Ananasii referring to the teleport idea. You should be able to Teleport from the Guild Menu for Stamina Points.

7. To Initiate a Guild Raid it should be under Guild Menu, and should cost Stamina Points.

8. When a Guild Raid is initiated it should take a minimum of at least 5minutes, There should also be a Guild Message informing all Guild Members of any attack.

9. I also disagree with the De-Levelling of Structures
I think everyone would be happy if Guild Structures had Durability Points like items do, and when a Structure is attacked it will lose Durability Points until Destroyed, Then once Destroyed instead of De-Levelling the Structure instead the Guild members will not receive Structure Bonuses from the destroyed Structure until the Structures Durability Points have been Repaired, Which should only cost 15% of how much the Structure costs.

I'm sure everyone would agree with Repairing the Destroyed Structures for 15% of the current Structures Cost instead

Please take into consideration. :roll:

#178 fs_posiedon

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 13:26

i think it should be like wrestling the guild challenege each other and bid some gold for winning and the other team also should put that much money .and one more idea i want to share is there should be belts or medals like :fearless fighters vs DX (lol) for an medal

then if fearless fighters won then the medal holder would be fearless fighters and what other thinks is this a good idea :?:

#179 fs_geoff

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 20:17

Only thing I would change is price for building repairs - lets say 50-100% of last level cost (that means no need to build previous levels and then saving lot of gold


once again, great for low lvl guilds who would pay barely anything for buildings... but not so good for the guilds with structures worth hundreds of thousands!

#180 fs_dragonboi

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 00:53

i would hate it for my structures to be destroyed in 1 raid so i thought up this idea.how about every structure gets his own lvl-up bar gets exp during each guild raid(and maybe 1exp every 24hours).when a structure levels u can increase its hp thus making it harder to destroy.or maybe treat the buildings as a individual character(simulating maybe archers defending it or ppl on top throwing down boiling oil)this would make it possible for a guild to win a raid(while defending)without having to walk or teleport all the way to their piece of guild land


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