Official Suggestion: Relic System Changes
#181
fs_arkyrocks
Posted 14 March 2007 - 00:38
#182
fs_kage72
Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:02
well hoof, the only 'fair' solution is to link the relics to the guild lvl???
I'm not sure how you mean link them the guild level.
One thing to remember is as other players have mentioned, the top guilds have worked hard to be where they are... I'm not saying smaller guilds should not also be able to hold a relic (hence we are reviewing this), however there must be some advantage to working your way up on the game otherwise what is the point?
according to my other complaint posts about +stamina gain, many people think that upper level people should get no preference for their hardwork. In that scenario everyone seems to think that EVERYONE should have a complete and equal chance to obtain anything anyone else has. According to the mentality there, i think most people would prefer it if relics were "Purchased" with FSP. Then, other guilds could try to "Bribe" the relics with bigger FSP offers.
Sorry, i just had to.
#183
fs_treeline
Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:06
i liek them all except number 2
Snowman, don't you think the captures are too easy in the current system ... shouldn't some effort have to be put into the capture?
I don't think they are too hard to capture, turn over is pretty high.
The problem is holding on to them
#184
Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:30
One problem is that you will _never_ please all the players in the game. We add what we feel will improve the game, but we are happy to listen to suggestions to improve them further (hence this thread)
Note also we're not making a final decision on the changes to this for another day or so, so that we get the overall opinion from the community.
#185
Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:51
in my opinion there should be the same set of relics but set in tiers in which they were aviable which was based on guild level.
Adding more relics would solve this I think as a guild can capture a max of 6 relics. (We may reduce this limit also)
#186
Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:52
If we put everything to the vote, nothing would ever get implimented
We put a lot of through into the relics system, however I think with a few tweaks we're discussing here we can make it perfect and fun for all
#187
fs_borisdrago
Posted 14 March 2007 - 02:10
2. Max of 6 relics is fine maybee reduce it to 5 so one guild does not have a huge advantage over rest.
3. Defence bonus shoud be applied based on ammont of relics a guild holds.
1relic +50% to defending group stats
2 relics +15% to defending group stats
3 relics + no bonus
4. Quote:
Players in a group attempting capture must also all be on the same square as the relic (group members not at the location will not get the 20% bonus applied to the group).
This doesnt really make sence group bonus should be applied in the event of the attack just like any other groups
5. there is should be a teleportation option to the relic by a guild that owns it and ability to teleport out to the world area of choice just as normal portal. (same costs 25 sta +gold) And a guild member should not be able to defend a relic that is in the zone he normally would not have access to.
This means that once you done leveling you can use your last 25 stamina to teleport to one of your relics to defend it while you are not online. When you back online for 25 stamina and some gold teleport back to your desired area.
But if you in some dungeon you faced with a choice to defend your relic or to continue leveling.
Because there typically more people offline then on it will allow easier defence if a guild wants to controll the relic. Also it will make defending multiple relics harder.
And yes guilds with 8 people or less will not be able to effectively defend the relic but i dont see why they should. (and thouse that say only the big guilds get what they want, well we worked for it and nothing stopping you from doing the same )
Over thelast month 5 of the top 10 guilds were replaced with better guilds who spent the time/ money / effort to get there so they deserve the benefits (look at ewoks and dreadblade and otheres like them) You cannot expect to be a 5 person guild and get same benefits as a 100 person guild.
6. a relic list with current ownership is also a great idea
7. One last thing please dont make more then 30-50 relics in the game as that will ruin the game (there are too many bonuses as it is )
#188
fs_lordatog
Posted 14 March 2007 - 03:36
#189
fs_geoff
Posted 14 March 2007 - 05:30
only people who PVP with all their stam are going to be able to stand on the relics all day... everone else would have to waste a heap of stam going there and back to train...
a solution would be to scrap proposal no. 2 for the changes, and make it that you can make a defending group. 120% for stats of one person on the relic, + 25% stats of anyone that joins. additional people can stand on the relics for mayb 60% of their stats to be added (does not stack with joining group. joining group not required to stand on the relic and defend).
the same sorta thing for attackers - 100% for person on the relic + 20% of group member's stats + 40% of any additional guildmates on the relic (does not stack with group joining, group joining not required for stats to be added, if standing on the spot).
the defenders would have higher ratios of their stats added, but taking over a relic shouln't be easy. defenders would waste a lot more time than attackers, and if their equipment is not at 100% they lose stats. also, since attackers have the advantage of hitting first, as well as the fact that most chars are offensive based.
this way, both the attackers and the defenders can have groups, so it balances out. it would also encourage the attackers to work together to take down a well defended relic, but without making it as immensly inconvenient and complex as no.2 suggests it should be
#190
fs_kage72
Posted 14 March 2007 - 06:40
I really like the idea of making them hard places to steal. But, only if the guild has a lower relic limit. I like the idea of the highest guilds organizing to try to steal/defend the best few relics since each guild can only control 2-3 total(make the upgrade alot more expensive to offset limit). This way the top guilds would be focusing on the best relics, the middle level guilds could battle for the next best relics(since not big enough to take better ones), and smaller guilds could battle for the smaller relics which can still help thier guild.
But, again comes the issue with standing in the square to defend.
I GOT IT !!!!!!!
A new guild upgrade"maximum number of players that can defend a relic". This way the quild's members could choose to defend a relic from within the guild management tab(could add the button next to shrine). This way guild could assign their best players(distributed over the 2-3 relics) to defend the relics without having to stand there. Perhaps can give no bonuses to give a guild a chance to build a group of equal power to steal. This would promote the upgrading of group numbers along with the new "defend relic" upgrade.
Another thing for the suggestion board is gonna be to control guild groups either by offering a requirement filter for group or allowing group leader to edit group members. Hate to see alot of drama over lower level people joining special relic attacking groups by accident.
#191
fs_dreadwulf
Posted 14 March 2007 - 08:29
A new guild upgrade"maximum number of players that can defend a relic".
That's an interesting idea and one worth further brainstorming. I still support Silver's overall suggestions as a whole but the above point is also plausible.
On another note... I said it before and i'll say it again, I really suspect this game only has around 10k or less active players (the rest being 1-timers, alts, or mules) due to the fact that this thread is dominated by the same 30-40 people and with only 120 something votes cast lol. Would be nice if a larger percentage of active players would take the time to register and cast their vote/voice their opinion here since revisions to the current implementation will take place soon.
#192
fs_silverrook
Posted 14 March 2007 - 14:12
My idea is to have the relics expire after a certain time (due to their usage of magic etc ) and then once one is destroyed it is then randomly re located in the world.
Have the expiry period long enough so that people get a decent benefit from it 120hours for example (5 days in other words) and only be able to have 1 relic at a time.
Factor the bonuses like the average value of the levels of the members of the guild.
This way a guild of say 10 members (for easier math ) with 9 players lvl 20 and 1 member lvl 87 would = 267 / 10
Do this the same way the skills tree works so 26.7 (rounded up to 27) * 0.25% would give the relic bonus this could be applied across the board and the bonuses would change according to the members it provides for.
this way guilds with lots of lvl 9 members (just been recruited but low xp contr) would also benefit and even the guild with 4 people at lvl 50 for example.......
hoof i would like you thoughts on this personally cuz i think its a sound proposal
#193
fs_borisdrago
Posted 14 March 2007 - 14:43
There are a few basic problems with the relic system that we've all been trying to solve... let's go through them one by one:
..................................................
4) Add more flexibility for guilds to participate in the relic system (triple relics, some flexibility in the levels of relics in each map, etc)
that was a great well thought out post but i think it would require alot of codding and new things and therefore could not be implemented
but i just wanted to make a comment that we need more people who think like you and less whiners
#194
Posted 14 March 2007 - 18:08
This way a guild of say 10 members (for easier math ) with 9 players lvl 20 and 1 member lvl 87 would = 267 / 10
Do this the same way the skills tree works so 26.7 (rounded up to 27) * 0.25% would give the relic bonus this could be applied across the board and the bonuses would change according to the members it provides for.
This actually seems like a sound idea... thoughts everyone?
#195
fs_davidjames
Posted 14 March 2007 - 18:30
#196
Posted 14 March 2007 - 18:36
#197
fs_borisdrago
Posted 14 March 2007 - 18:55
This way a guild of say 10 members (for easier math ) with 9 players lvl 20 and 1 member lvl 87 would = 267 / 10
Do this the same way the skills tree works so 26.7 (rounded up to 27) * 0.25% would give the relic bonus this could be applied across the board and the bonuses would change according to the members it provides for.
This actually seems like a sound idea... thoughts everyone?
what does it mean across the board? does it mean if relic provides 10% across the board for everyone then they get +10 % to every stat ?
if that is right then its way too powerfull
if it means the % applied aplies to relic bonuses only then to get full 100% bonus from the relic you wouldn need to have average of lvl 400 within the guild and tha would make it way underpowered.
and finally is the point to have just one relic? where te competition in that?
like i said simple solution is to use what we got already. Just modify it.
1. Teleport to and from the guild controlled relic for same price as the portal (only guildmembers that are allowed in the area may do so ) no lvl 20 in lvl 60+ area pls
This allows you to teleport to the guild relic and defend it before you log off each day then when you regain your stamina teleport back to desired hunting area and get back to hunting. (also will allow for strategy part as in which relic you can protect better based on guildmember lvls and to wait to take the relic when its least guarded+will create the extra $$ for hoof as guild increase the size of their attack groups)
2. 50% bonus to defending team if guild controlls one relic only.
10% bonus if 2 relics are controlled and 0 bonus for 3 or more.
this will give smaller guilds ability to keep a relic.
3. 15min to an hour cooldown period to bring defences inplace.
4. ability to monitor which relics controlled by which guild so as to not break any treaties.
This is it it will make a good strategic warfare beetween guilds, improve relics system and create extra income for Hoof and co.
Then all you need to do is add another relic once in a while when new part of the world is introduced into the game (dont make too many this should be a competition not a free for all to take) There should be around 10 guilds with 15+ members each contending for each relic. (maybee 20-30 relics total) or just one per new world area
#198
fs_silverrook
Posted 14 March 2007 - 19:49
mmm it's a good idea but should consider the following situation
guild A: 2 players with level 30 -> (30+30)/2 = 30
guild B: 1 ppl with level 10 and 1 ppl with level 50 -> (10+50)/2 = 30
Should ppl from both guilds obtain the same benefit from the Relic? I think it's unfair for guild B, since the higher lvl ppl is (surely) who needs the biggest effect.
Maybe something like a weighted sum?
guild A: each player obtain 30/60 = 0.5 of the 30% benefit, i.e, 15% a piece
guild B: one player obtain 10/60 = 0.16 of the 30% (more or less the 5%) while the other gets 50/60 = 0.83 of the 30% (the 25%)
RESUMING: consider the level of the players when the (Relic skill level) are applied
maybe you misunderstood where did you get
guild A: each player obtain 30/60 = 0.5 of the 30% benefit
and
guild B: one player obtain 10/60 = 0.16 of the 30%
if guild a has 2 members both at 30 would = 60 / 10 = 6 * 0.25% bonus
and guild b has 1 member at lvl 30 would = 30 /10 = 3 * 0.25% bonus
#199
fs_kage72
Posted 14 March 2007 - 20:25
1.12-24 hour cool down period(relic cannot be taken before time is up). Of course this would have to be reflected on the relic).
2.Making the new upgrade "Max relic defenders" to counter the current Max people in a group". Along with removing the neccesity to be in the square to defend it. The guilds could distribute their best warriors to defend the relics.
The members could choose to defend the relic via the guild manage page.
3.The ability for guild leaders to edit/remove defenders from a relic. This would prevent lower level players from accidentally using up a defense slot for relic. Or, the modifying of defenders as players became available to defend(since the player would have to be online to press the "defend relic" button next to a relic symbol on guild screen.
4.Lowing max relics upgrade. More than enough FSP would be made up with the new upgrade in #2. Keep the max relics to 3 or so to keep one guild from hording them all. As more and more relics become available, you could eventually raise the relic limit. This would promote guilds to work only for the relics they really wanted. Top guilds would battle for the best relics, mid level guilds would battle for next best relics, and smallest guilds would still have a chance at the lower level relics since the higher levels won't use up 1 of their 3 upgrades for it.
5.No real defensive bonuses for defenders. The 12-24 hour cooldown time is enough to make taking the relic worthwhile. Since guilds would be able to distribute their strongest members amongst their relics, the defense should be strong enough. This way opposing guilds would have a more fair chance of taking the relic after cooldown time. But, would still take complete cooperation by the guild to assemble a strong enough group to take on opposing guilds best members.
6.Ability to edit group, or a requirement filter with making groups. As special groups would be needed for these attacks, there would become the necesity to control the making of the groups. Would be alot of trouble having lower level members accidentally joining special "relic taking" groups.
Whatcha think>?
#200
fs_borisdrago
Posted 14 March 2007 - 21:24
i disagree about the defence bonus as it stands there is a possibility of a larger guild having a 52 person group at this point just changed today for attack (hoof i think 25 was quite enough but that is just me) and most guilds dont even have that many members so its not fair to defenders to not have a bonus when they controll just one relic but when you try to hoard you get no bonus.
other then that my opinion is this.
1. Teleport to and from the guild controlled relic for same price as the portal (only guildmembers that are allowed in the area may do so ) no lvl 20 in lvl 60+ area pls
This allows you to teleport to the guild relic and defend it before you log off each day then when you regain your stamina teleport back to desired hunting area and get back to hunting. (also will allow for strategy part as in which relic you can protect better based on guildmember lvls and to wait to take the relic when its least guarded+will create the extra $$ for hoof as guild increase the size of their attack groups)
2. 50% bonus to defending team if guild controlls one relic only.
10% bonus if 2 relics are controlled and 0 bonus for 3 or more.
this will give smaller guilds ability to keep a relic.
3. 15min to an hour cooldown period to bring defences inplace.
4. ability to monitor which relics controlled by which guild so as to not break any treaties.
This is it it will make a good strategic warfare beetween guilds, improve relics system and create extra income for Hoof and co.
Then all you need to do is add another relic once in a while when new part of the world is introduced into the game (dont make too many this should be a competition not a free for all to take) There should be around 10 guilds with 15+ members each contending for each relic. (maybee 20-30 relics total) or just one per new world area[/
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