Official Suggestion - Game Mechanics Tweak
#81
fs_borisdrago
Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:02
there is no point to spend hours and days wort of stamina to get a set that is worse then a common item combination
and no matter how you tweak the system if one stat allows you to gain lvls more efficiently thouse that strive to be the best will concentrate on that stat
the problem is that dmg outshines any other stat hands down with atack close behind and other stats dont mean much
#82
Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:18
I think just adding some smaller sets and working with the higher level players to make some tweaks to the existing sets might be fine - I think we may try this first and see how that works out before changing anything else
How does that sound?
Perfect Hoof.
Lets start slow and see where it leads us.
#83
Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:38
#84
fs_borisdrago
Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:47
#85
fs_matto
Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:48
Delux906,
I hear you, but that would mean essentially making all elite sets purely attack / damage based no?
Or is that what you want?
Is it just the spread of stats on the sets or the focus of the stats that is the issue?
Do you see any other viable solutions?
Obviously you missed my post a few pages back... I suggested that instead of one set, you make a few different ones. Have one focus on damage/attack, another focus on damage/armor, a third focus on defense/armor.
And a new idea, if you didn't want to do that, make a full set craftable. And instead of having crafting levels like poor and average, the crafting would be one price per item set (like 10 fsps) and you could choose the focus. The point distribution would change per level, so if you choose an atk/dam craft, it would pull 50 stat points randomly from def/arm/hp gain and put them randomly on dam/atk. The 50 points would be for say a lvl 50 set, and it would be 130 stat points for a level 130 set. That way you as the player could customize your lvl 130 set (with 137.5 bonus whatever) to be more profficient at defending or attacking.
It would look like this, say your lvl 100 and your total atk=500, dam=600, def=400, arm=500, you could pull at lvl 100 points off arm/def and add them to atk/dam, but it would be random (so it could all go to atk or dam, potentially). So if you got lucky, you might end up with atk=500, dam=700, def=300, and arm=500. Just a thought.
I don't think the sets should be all atk/dam or all def/arm/hp, but i think i good distribution would be nice. That's why multiple sets or craftable sets would be intriquing.
#86
fs_matto
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:00
Small sets, Big sets, Medium sized sets, Tiny sets.......Really does not matter to me, I like the variety of it so I really could care less on the size of the set. I will try to explain this better than I have previously, obviously the point has been missed and now its a conversation about changing formulas and all kinds of other things. This Is kind of the way I see it, And I know that many in my guild feel the same way so I will try to sum up the big points:
1) This game is about Stamina, and how effective you can use that stamina to gain levels. Around level 90 the content monsters got allot more challenging, there stats are much better for there level than they were in previous areas, So as players, the only way to effectively use that stamina was to create a set that was effective at killing the monsters with the highest xp gain to stamina use ratio as possible. In order to do that we set up sets that had higher Att and Damage and Picked EITHER Def or Armor as a sacrafice to get get there.
The ELITE SETS Should be the most effective gear that i can use for leveling in the level range that I am in, after level 100 the sets are ALOT harder to get and you spend alot of stamina in doing it, so they should be "hands down" the gear to have for that level range for gaining xp. But they are not, not even close. I could care less if the 130 elite set has the equivalent stats of a piece of 137.5 lvl gear, that means absolutely nothing to me if the stats are all in areas that do not help me use my stamina more effectively for killing. As long as sets can be built using common items that make my stamina use 3x more effective than a elite set, then Elite Sets are a complete waste of time to try to gain, Most everyone that look at the posted stats on the sets from 100-130 will completely avoid them because the set does NOT ALLOW THE MOST EFFECTIVE USE OF STAMINA. If you fix the elite sets so they help you level more effectively (High xp gain to Stam burn ratio) I promise you they will be the most sought after gear in the game.
2) HP are not very useful because they do not help you effectively use stamina. If I have 350 hit points and I can take 5 hits from a monster before dying, that just says it took me 6 swings to kill him, And that is just a bad use of stamina to take 6 swings to make a kill, instead I will increase my attack and damage as much as I can, If I mis and get the occasional death, My XP overall gain is still allot faster than swinging 6 times per kill.
3) You can re-randomize the amount of damage that is done on a successful attack against the armor factor if you want to, that will accomplish one thing, Everyone will switch back to defense because it is the less random of the 2, And the most stable to effectively gain experience with.
I will never invest very much in HP regardless of what you do with it, even with 300 HP, one piercing strike hit = your dead. My best recommendation for HP would be to make it a set amount of gain per level, For example +1 hp for every level you gain, So a level 30 guy would have a base Hp of 30 and a level 100 would have a base hp of 100, At least gaining levels makes you a little harder to kill (But not much).
That does make sense, if you don't want players to focus on 1hit kills, then don't make stamina part of the game. By having it there, it becomes, and always has been, the quintisential hurdle of the game. There's a reason why people use "stamina gear".
Everyone who is opposed to one hit kills are suggesting things that would make this online RPG more of an actual rpg. If you want FF, go play FF. If you want it online, go play WOW. This game's focus has always been solely on stamina, and as Delux said, efficiently and effectively using that stamina is the key to being successful in the game. Trying to keep us from being effective stamina users is counter-productive. Let the game play as it has, just make the sets worthwhile.
And whatever number multiplier you're using to make a lvl 130 set better than 130 items isn't working. Even if the set were to be tewaked, you need a more probable gain than 25 dam or whatever it is for having the complete set. A lvl 130 set should have like a +100 dam bonus, among other things. I have a +25 dam gain on my darklore set, and that's only 3 items and nearly 60 levels lower than the 130 set. How does that make sense?
#87
fs_daitenshi
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:01
With this suggestion, there would be no reason to have names for the sets or special icons becuase all you would do is simply choose the same stats every time. You would just go from level 50 broadsword to level 70 broadsword or something.And a new idea, if you didn't want to do that, make a full set craftable. And instead of having crafting levels like poor and average, the crafting would be one price per item set (like 10 fsps) and you could choose the focus. The point distribution would change per level, so if you choose an atk/dam craft, it would pull 50 stat points randomly from def/arm/hp gain and put them randomly on dam/atk. The 50 points would be for say a lvl 50 set, and it would be 130 stat points for a level 130 set. That way you as the player could customize your lvl 130 set (with 137.5 bonus whatever) to be more profficient at defending or attacking.
It would look like this, say your lvl 100 and your total atk=500, dam=600, def=400, arm=500, you could pull at lvl 100 points off arm/def and add them to atk/dam, but it would be random (so it could all go to atk or dam, potentially). So if you got lucky, you might end up with atk=500, dam=700, def=300, and arm=500. Just a thought.
The sets should all be unique even if some are similar (make a new one level 100+ simiklar to FireD!). The point is to have something to achieve. IF all you do is make the stats higher with each level, it will get extremely mundane.
#88
fs_matto
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:14
With this suggestion, there would be no reason to have names for the sets or special icons becuase all you would do is simply choose the same stats every time. You would just go from level 50 broadsword to level 70 broadsword or something.And a new idea, if you didn't want to do that, make a full set craftable. And instead of having crafting levels like poor and average, the crafting would be one price per item set (like 10 fsps) and you could choose the focus. The point distribution would change per level, so if you choose an atk/dam craft, it would pull 50 stat points randomly from def/arm/hp gain and put them randomly on dam/atk. The 50 points would be for say a lvl 50 set, and it would be 130 stat points for a level 130 set. That way you as the player could customize your lvl 130 set (with 137.5 bonus whatever) to be more profficient at defending or attacking.
It would look like this, say your lvl 100 and your total atk=500, dam=600, def=400, arm=500, you could pull at lvl 100 points off arm/def and add them to atk/dam, but it would be random (so it could all go to atk or dam, potentially). So if you got lucky, you might end up with atk=500, dam=700, def=300, and arm=500. Just a thought.
The sets should all be unique even if some are similar (make a new one level 100+ simiklar to FireD!). The point is to have something to achieve. IF all you do is make the stats higher with each level, it will get extremely mundane.
Well then you must not like crafting either, that what I propose is more or less the same thing, only for sets...
#89
fs_borisdrago
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:26
everyone would choose att/dmg
the stats arent balanced
#90
fs_krypkill
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:35
But yeah, the problem is with the sets, not with the gameplay in general, imho.
#92
fs_kaldirris
Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:59
#93
Posted 11 April 2007 - 03:02
#94
fs_borisdrago
Posted 11 April 2007 - 03:03
like 10 other threads like this one not much will change because of ppl being afraid to lose their advantage of one sort or another
but the easier it will become to kill monsters the less fun the game will be
i currently kill elites by myself and one hit monsters as high as lvl 70 there is no challenge
i turn to pvp but its not fun cause you can only steal gold and pvp is nerfed
im done with this thread ill adjust to any rules you guys decide upon
#95
Posted 11 April 2007 - 04:38
We will be posting a new update on the set changes shortly
- hoof
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