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Offical Suggestion : Kick up the fire, Hell-Forge is burning


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Poll: What do you think about the proposed Hell-Forge changes? (95 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about the proposed Hell-Forge changes?

  1. Don't change it, I like the Hell-Forge as it is! (11 votes [2.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.81%

  2. Sounds good but needs some work! (68 votes [17.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.35%

  3. I like the new idea's I would use the Hell-Forge way more (313 votes [79.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 79.85%

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#1 Mojawk

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:01

Hello minions, :twisted:

Currently we all know how the Hell-Forge works, if you've forgotten then see my handy quote :)

The Hell Forge contains the fire of hell itself. Known to contain great power, the fires of hell can be used to unlease the true potential of any item, increasing its statistics permanently (except for hourly 'Gain' stats). Each time you use the forge on an item to increase its forge level (see the guide below) costs 10 FallenSword Points.

Note also if an item has already been forged, you can 'Extract Flame' from the item, to re-gain 50% of the FallenSword Points back.


A long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) the Hell-Forge was used by alot of the top players as the boost it provided allowed players to become alot stronger and level up alot quicker.

The proposed changes would include taking the game down for a short period of time and "unforging all items" and returning any spent FSP to their owner.

The new forging idea would be based upon the items level, meaning more powerfull items "could" get greater improvements (at a greater cost). The cost would also be modified so that forging would now use more gold and less FSP. Note : In the new system there would be no way to "un-forge" an item.

At level 1 forging would now cost 2 FSP.
At level 2 it would be say 200 gold multiplied by item level. (so 20000 gold for a level 100 item)
At level 3 it would be say 400 gold multiplied by item level. (40000)
At level 4 it would be say 800 gold multiplied by item level. (80000)
At level 5 it would be say 1600 gold multiplied by item level. (160000)

Obviously these are not final numbers, but an example.

Now for actually item bonuses, before the last changes to the Hell-forge it worked on a % of the each individual item stat. I dont remember the actual values but I do remember it being game breaking. I think a better way would be to work out a percentage based on the item level, and add the bonuses this way, I do realise +5 to all stats and level 150+ doesn't quite cut it. Ive been messing around with some maths and stuff, don't have anything concrete yet for this second part. However I'm something along the lines of a % against the item level to all stats. For example each level would be 2% against all item stats, so for the above level 100 item, this would apply a bonus of 4 to all relevenat stats. So if maximum upgrades were purchased at level 100 you would achieve 20 to all relevenat stats.

I would like some feedback on the above thoughts and if you have time can you please vote in the above poll.

Thanks in advance 8)

John Stewart
Chief Operations Officer


#2 fs_dxrulez123

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:08

radneto this is the best idea hell forge need to change :wink:

#3 fs_viticus

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:12

I think its Sounds Good. The Forge Does need a Major Upgrade. I Remember there was a time that It actually made a difference if your Gear was forged. But Change is always Good And Having % increase's Is Definetely The Way to go.

#4 fs_psycomaddy

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:12

I love it, yes yes yes. Make it more useful to have gold and less onerous for those of us with less opportunity to gain fsp. But PLEASE make it worthwhile on the item stats!

#5 fs_udl

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:15

I think I like the way this is going, but what would happen to currently FSP'ed items?


Oops, never mind. I just re-read. :roll:

#6 fs_piratemike

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:15

GREAT improvement. I never forged any of my gear, because I knew I would never get the FSP back out of it when it came time to sell, and it wasn't worth the bonuses at the levels when I actually had FSP.

Gold is easy to come by, and far easier to waste (ok, so I buy 100 tickets for each lottery). As I don't see the price of FSPs coming down in the MarketPlace, FSPs are actually becoming dearer.

I also like the idea of bonuses being based on stats. Could you imagine a pickaxe with +20 to damage? LOL.

Overall, outstanding idea.

#7 fs_lordatog

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:16

Radneto told me to post the idea cause it sounded plausable i guess haha

how much trouble would it be to make it so you add only to one stat with each hellforge and allowed 5 hellforges or would it be too much trouble for Data base to keep track of that many dif stats

like maybe 5% to a single stat on item can do 5 times on same or split between stats

#8 fs_krypkill

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:20

Excellent idea, it was fairly apparent that forging at high levels was worthless.

I like the less fsp/more gold idea, obviously, as I'm sure many others will agree.

Is the plan to make it cost 2fsp per level+gold amount, Or is the 2fsp for the first level, then gold only after that? It wasn't entirely clear from the post.

#9 fs_phool

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:21

Way to go Radneto!
Very happy minion here :lol:

#10 ScarletTestAce

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:21

OK...so what you are saying that hellforging now uses Gold and fsp? or just gold with a 2 fsp for first forge.

And the hellforge boost is a % not a number...

mm sounds good if its like this

#11 Mojawk

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:26

Excellent idea, it was fairly apparent that forging at high levels was worthless.

I like the less fsp/more gold idea, obviously, as I'm sure many others will agree.

Is the plan to make it cost 2fsp per level+gold amount, Or is the 2fsp for the first level, then gold only after that? It wasn't entirely clear from the post.


2 fsp would be like an initial cost, just for the 1st level, gold for every level there after. As I said none of this is set in stone so feel free to bounce ideas around in this thread, I'm tired and hungry so going home soon, but I'll try and read it all tomorrow.

John Stewart
Chief Operations Officer


#12 fs_lordatog

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:26

the 2 fsp sounds more like a prep to the equipment to allow the hellfire to be put in item

#13 Hoofmaster

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:26

2 FSP is only on the first upgrade :)

#14 Mojawk

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:27

At level 1 forging would now cost 2 FSP.
At level 2 it would be say 200 gold multiplied by item level. (so 20000 gold for a level 100 item)
At level 3 it would be say 400 gold multiplied by item level. (40000)
At level 4 it would be say 800 gold multiplied by item level. (80000)
At level 5 it would be say 1600 gold multiplied by item level. (160000)




not bad but level 1 forging should be cheaper it doesen't make sanse if it cost's more then lv 2.


20000 is more than 40000? Can you show me where you bank is? :P

John Stewart
Chief Operations Officer


#15 fs_biini

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:31

Sounds like a very good idea since FSP prices has rocketed sky-high. You'll have my vote :)

#16 fs_ravana

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:33

This would be a vast improvement on current Hell Forging. I have only ever used Hell Forging once in the entire game, and that only for a single level's worth (it was on a Dwarf Quartz Ring... at that level, the bonuses were worth it). If it were done this way, I'd use it now.

I particularly like the idea of the cost of forging being scaled to the level of the item. I do have a couple questions/comments, though:

(1) Does each level have to be paid for in order? I'm assuming "yes," since that's the way it is now. If not, the FSP price for the first level could be "skipped."

(2) The gold costs seem a little low—at least where low-level items are concerned. L1 Hell Forging costs 2 FSP... but if you're talking, say, a L10 item, the second level will only cost 2k gold... this would be "fairer" to lower-level players, but I'm not sure it's "balanced." Perhaps it should be a combined FSP and gold cost at each level... say, 1 FSP and 100x level gold for L1, 2 FSP and 200x gold for L2, 3 FSP and 400x gold at L3, etc.? The FSP cost, if used, should only go up by one per level, rather than doubling as the gold cost does.

(3) I like the idea of a percentage bonus rather than a straight +1 bonus... though as proposed, it might be a bit excessive: +20 to all stats on a L100 item? That will be a massive increase on items that have eight or nine stats. Remember that one of the protests against Hell Forging is that it's possible to achieve greater benefits with fewer FSP through Crafting, in many cases... this would create the reverse situation. (I don't mind, but some people will protest....)

(4) Possibly the increase would be randomized for each stat instead, with the +2% increase being the maximum possible to achieve at each level of Hell Forging. There would be a guaranteed minimum increase to each stat, but if someone wanted maximum benefits, they might have to "re-forge" it at each level (which means that would have to be an option: re-forging at the same level)... making it like Crafting in that way. (Now there's a gold sink for you....)

(5) The increase could also be scaled to the number of stats the item already possesses—making it desirable to Hell Forge items with only one or two stat bonuses, rather than seven or ten. This is where a major imbalance occurs... why bother Hell Forging an item that only increases one stat (say, Armor, as Frost Giant Armor does)? Maybe there should be a maximum number of bonus points at each level, and these will be distributed randomly among the existing bonuses... so that, if the number of bonus points you receive at a given level were, say, 10, they would be scattered across the stats if there were five of them (averaging a +2/stat increase), but if there were only one stat, it would provide a +10 bonus to that stat.

(6) What I would like to see even more is for each level of Hell Forging to add, or at least have a chance to add, a new random enhancement to the item. This could be used instead of the % increase: leave the stat increase at +1 per level, but have each level add a random enhancement at, say, +10 to +20. (Or, if the "random" enhancement generated matches one already on the item, it would simply be added to the current one.) This would create truly unique items—with some fascinating variations. It would also put greater emphasis on enhancements (something I've been proposing for some time now).

I would have no objections to the system as it is currently presented... but I think it could be made better, particularly in the case of items with few bonuses. This is probably where the current and proposed systems are both weakest.

#17 fs_coyotik

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:35

It looks like a good way to "level the playing field" for your customers who live in countries where they are unable to purchase fsp's. Go for it!


I'm not really sure about this - after all, over here in Europe (Central and further east), we already have enough problems getting FSP that we need to keep just about so-so-competitive.

How do we get FSP?

a) recruiting friends (but you soon run out :))
B) getting free offers done for us (for a share, usually close to 50%, thus overall making the US guys equally FSP-rich)
c) fake recruiting (I don't do that, but I really really don't believe that there's anything remotely close to 750k individual human beings in the game.)
d) last but not least, buying FSP for gold.

So, introduction of hellforging for gold will actually put FSP-rich folks at even GREATER advantage, because so far their only use for gold was guild/personal banks and upkeep, whereas now they'll be able to hellforge practically everything.

At higher levels, life is next to impossible without some quality item sets - and to get them, we need FSP, and to get FSP, we have to send most of our gold across the sea - and therefore for every item we buy for FSP, some guy in the US will be able to hellforge the same item :).

#18 fs_doon169

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:39

I vote yes for the idea. The % gain is a great thought! but as posted before keep it fair for lower levels and upper levels. Maybe have the hellforge differentiate between level of item being forged and charge a lower gold price for this, and vice versa for higher levels. (If this is even possible?)

#19 Mojawk

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:41

(5) The increase could also be scaled to the number of stats the item already possesses—making it desirable to Hell Forge items with only one or two stat bonuses, rather than seven or ten. This is where a major imbalance occurs... why bother Hell Forging an item that only increases one stat (say, Armor, as Frost Giant Armor does)? Maybe there should be a maximum number of bonus points at each level, and these will be distributed randomly among the existing bonuses... so that, if the number of bonus points you receive at a given level were, say, 10, they would be scattered across the stats if there were five of them (averaging a +2/stat increase), but if there were only one stat, it would provide a +10 bonus to that stat.


Very valid point, and was one of the reason the Hell-Forge got nerfed (for a lack of a better word) back when the game started. This is something we will have to consider.

John Stewart
Chief Operations Officer


#20 fs_phool

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 21:42

It looks like a good way to "level the playing field" for your customers who live in countries where they are unable to purchase fsp's. Go for it!


I'm not really sure about this - after all, over here in Europe (Central and further east), we already have enough problems getting FSP that we need to keep just about so-so-competitive.

How do we get FSP?

a) recruiting friends (but you soon run out :))
B) getting free offers done for us (for a share, usually close to 50%, thus overall making the US guys equally FSP-rich)
c) fake recruiting (I don't do that, but I really really don't believe that there's anything remotely close to 750k individual human beings in the game.)
d) last but not least, buying FSP for gold.

So, introduction of hellforging for gold will actually put FSP-rich folks at even GREATER advantage, because so far their only use for gold was guild/personal banks and upkeep, whereas now they'll be able to hellforge practically everything.

At higher levels, life is next to impossible without some quality item sets - and to get them, we need FSP, and to get FSP, we have to send most of our gold across the sea - and therefore for every item we buy for FSP, some guy in the US will be able to hellforge the same item :).



I agree with much of what you say here coyotik, but I think you are confusing the two issues.

Hellforging for gold is a great idea as it will provide a HUGE gold sink for the game and perhaps even drop the price of fsps with a bit of luck.

The problem about the US players being advantaged needs to be addressed elsewhere I think. Though I do agree with your analysis.


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