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Offical Suggestion : Kick up the fire, Hell-Forge is burning


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Poll: What do you think about the proposed Hell-Forge changes? (95 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about the proposed Hell-Forge changes?

  1. Don't change it, I like the Hell-Forge as it is! (11 votes [2.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.81%

  2. Sounds good but needs some work! (68 votes [17.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.35%

  3. I like the new idea's I would use the Hell-Forge way more (313 votes [79.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 79.85%

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#121 fs_krypkill

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 18:50

A majority agreed not to return fsps, so if they do take our suggestions to heart, that's my assumption. I could very well be wrong, so it would need clarification. I don't have any forged items at the moment, so I don't really care, but the people who do might. So hopefully they can get that cleared up beforehand as I'm sure someone would complain afterward.


Yeah, who agreed on that? All the people with no forged items I guess. If you want a genuine consensus on that, I would want to see a poll.

I can't see a reason not to return FSP, and I think the outcry would be greater from those who were left with worthless items than from those who, for some reason, didn't want others to get FSP back.

As has been said, if the owners weren't the ones who forged the items, they still paid a premium for a hell forged item. Therefore they deserve compensation now their item is worthless.

#122 fs_davidjames

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 19:20

We're planning to make the changed based on the these suggestions next week. :)

the week is almost over so does that mean we have to wait until next week?

#123 fs_krypkill

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 19:32

Ok, so I just skim read the whole thread.

I came up with 4 people saying don't give back FSP (Matto, thandius, demongod, and some other guy I didn't write down).

And four who wanted the FSP back (crace, TheLastDJ, Vanul and derth). I could add myself, but i won't.

Tyrath said he didn't think it was likely the devs would give it back, but didn't clearly state an opinion. Although that isn't true, as we can see from the original post.

I think the FSP will be returned, and to be honest I think that is only fair.

#124 fs_delux906

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 21:28

Well, I personally dont think it can be done in a fair way to return fsp, If they want to, thats fine, I stand to get back allot of fsp from the earlier days of forging things. The reason why I think they should not do it is simple, most people figure out the price they are going to sell things at, then they add in a certain amount of fsp to the cost because the item is forged. So when they sold it, they get back some of the funds they spent to hellforge it. So if the FSP are now returned to everyone that has ever used the hellforge, you effectively are giving them free fsp, and how are you going to make it fair for the player that spent extra fsp when he bought a item because it was already forged ?
Since there is no way to do it in a way that is completely fair too all the people that have ever dealt with hellforged items, I say that the FSP should not be returned, And I am one of the people that stands to gain a considerable amount of fsp if they did decide too, but its not right, so I say no to returning fsp.

You have to keep things fair for everyone, otherwise is becomes a bad idea.

#125 fs_thelastdj

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 21:32

I don't think they'd give back FSPs if they forged an item earlier... only somehow make up for it if you currently have the item.

#126 fs_tyrath

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 22:29

Wonder if this and the skill update is still coming this week >.>

#127 fs_krypkill

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 22:53

And I am one of the people that stands to gain a considerable amount of fsp if they did decide too, but its not right, so I say no to returning fsp.


Fair play. I personally have no hellforged items, and have never forged myself. I presumed that the FSP would be given to the current owner of the item, ("unforging all items and returning any spent FSP to their owner") not whoever hellforged it in the first place. I didn't even realise records would go back far enough to allow for that.

If the FSP was returned to the person who forged it, perhaps not so good.

But if the FSP goes to the current owner, I think that's fair. As you say, they paid a premium for the item. That item is now effectively useless, one would presume the bonuses will disappear too. Granted they would likely get a bonus of extra FSP, but anyone who complains about that is being a bit of a killjoy, it isn't really hurting anyone.

Bare minimum they need to give a couple of weeks grace for people to extract flame. Even then, you're losing out really. You paid for a forged item, you are now forced to extract flame or lose the bonuses.

Not really fair in my opinion. But hey-ho, we'll see what happens.

#128 fs_tyrath

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 22:56

At level 1 forging would now cost 2 FSP ( i love it ).
At level 2 15k gold
At level 3 30k gold
At level 4 60k gold
At level 5 120k gold
this price for all lvl.


You realized your price for level 2 is half a FSP. For lvl 3 its 1 FSP. For lvl 4 its 2 FSP, and 4 for lvl 5.


2 > .5 > 1 > 2 > 4

Seems kinda messed up dont it?

#129 fs_willy74

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 23:42

i love the idea but i hope that we will al recieve our fsp back...wouldnt it just be as easy to boost stats current and not refund fsp

#130 fs_krypkill

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 23:47

i love the idea but i hope that we will al recieve our fsp back...wouldnt it just be as easy to boost stats current and not refund fsp


Technically you could still be losing out. Say you've fully forged a frost dragon set, then the gold cost to forge it will be much less than 50fsp per item, if it's scaled by level.

#131 fs_phool

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 23:57

If we aren't going to get back fps on already hell-forged gear, can we have notification of this before the change is implemented so that we can un-forge our gear before the new system start. :)

#132 fs_thelastdj

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:07

If we aren't going to get back fps on already hell-forged gear, can we have notification of this before the change is implemented so that we can un-forge our gear before the new system start. :)


What he said.

#133 fs_delux906

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:09

i thnk tht at a certain lvl like for beginers 1-50 shuld be able to use just gold to upgrade there weapons or w/e they wanna upgrade but as like you start going to a much greater lvl you shuld hve to sacrafice more (FSP) to upgrade idk thts just wat i thnk


Why ? Because they have been in the game longer they should pay more ? Allot of high level players do not buy fsp (Not me, but Allot, LOL) And there are also players that are under 18 years old than can not get FSP as easily, I think making it for gold accross the board for everyone is the fairest way to do it.

#134 Dark Developer

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:10

I am pretty sure if they refund the FSP will be given to the holder of the item and not the forger. I would like to know soon though so I don't get ripped off of my FSP I put into forging my sets. Check the IRC channel as much as possible to maybe catch Hoof and ask him about this situation.

#135 fs_thelastdj

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:10

i thnk tht at a certain lvl like for beginers 1-50 shuld be able to use just gold to upgrade there weapons or w/e they wanna upgrade but as like you start going to a much greater lvl you shuld hve to sacrafice more (FSP) to upgrade idk thts just wat i thnk


Why ? Because they have been in the game longer they should pay more ? Allot of high level players do not buy fsp (Not me, but Allot, LOL) And there are also players that are under 18 years old than can not get FSP as easily, I think making it for gold accross the board for everyone is the fairest way to do it.


Yeah... basing it off of levels is just... no. Gold cost should be based on level, but not a difference of gold/FSP...

#136 fs_maargeen

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:37

I personnaly think hell forge works properly as it is.
It s the same cost for everybody regardless to your level.

If you want player using hell forge and gold more frequently in the game I suggest two things.


First suggestion:

Player may pay gold or FSP to hell forge item.
base on 1FSP=30K

Keep five lvl of upgrade but make the first one more attractive.
lvl 1 = +2
lvl 2 = +3
lvl 3 = +4
lvl 4 = +5
lvl 5 = +6

Each lvl will cost 5 FSP.
So, to upgrade an item to max it ll cost you 25 fsp but you can t unforge it.
I know it s a crap for player who already spent 50 fsp. Maybe you could ask to this kind of player to unforge their item during one week without losing a stat bonus.

I think it would balance with crafting.

You may creat an icon to add on each item hell forged indicate their lvl of upgrade. It would be easier to understand what you purchase on AH.


Second suggestion:

It s quit the same.
lvl of upgrade will change this way.
Only three lvl:
lvl 1 = +2, cost 5 FSP or 150K
lvl 2 = +4, cost 10 FSP or 300K
lvl 3 = +6, cost 10 FSP or 300K

ppl who have ex-lvl 1,2,3, 4 and 5 can unforge their item to lvl 1, 2 or 3 winning an amount of FSP egal to:
ex-lvl 5 to lvl 3 = 25 FSP
ex-lvl 4 to lvl 2 = 25 FSP
ex-lvl 3 to lvl 3 = 5 FSP
ex-lvl 2 to lvl 2 = 5 FSP
ex-lvl 1 to lvl 1 = 5 FSP

I think it is simple. Sometime the easier way is the best.
Does it help?

#137 fs_maargeen

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:08

Another thing to keep interest through lvl to use hellforge.

You may creat new enhancements based on skill.

ex:
a player uses hell forge to creat "rage +5" (1 lvl skill points) (correction: +1/+2 is enough)
It cost him 1 lvl of item upgrade.
He may chose another skill of course.

You may limit the enhancement skill which could be implant on a gear by its lvl.
lvl 1 to 24 item = lvl 1 to 24 skill implantable
lvl 25 to 74 item = lvl 25 to 74 skill implantable
lvl 75 to 149 item = lvl 75 to 149 skill implantable
and so on...

Though, even high player would have interest to use low lvl item.

You may use hell forge to move up the lvl of your gear.
ex: my item is lvl 24 and I want it lvl 25 to implant a skill allowed at lvl 25.
25-24=1
It cost me 1x10K gold

You may specialize gear part to enhancement skill category:

weapon: offense skill (+2 per lvl)
armor: defense skill (+2 per lvl)
ring: specials skill (+2 per lvl)

gloves: offense and/or defense skill (+1 per lvl)
boots: offense and/or defense skill (+1 per lvl)

shield: defense and/or specials skill (+1 per lvl)
rune: offense and/or specials skill (+1 per lvl)

amulet: offense, defense and or specials skill (+1 per lvl)
helm: offense, defense and or specials skill (+1 per lvl)

It s max +21% in a skill

#138 fs_biini

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 18:15

We're planning to make the changed based on the these suggestions next week. :)


Week is near ending.. Will there be an upgrade tonight? :)
Cheers!

#139 fs_fighterdan

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 18:17

I think so... My server is running slowly now.

#140 fs_greybeard

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 15:22

The proposed changes would include taking the game down for a short period of time and "unforging all items" and returning any spent FSP to their owner.


I simply can't see the reasoning behind all your comments on the fsp return.

Is it stated quite clearly in the initial post. The items will be unforged and the fsp returned to the owner. What' is so hard to understand about that? And how do you think the reaction would be from any owner of a forged item, if HCS did not live up to their promise.

Besides there is no other 'fair' way to do it. The current owners bought the items with the added hell forge value, at a price agreed upon with the seller. Now this extra value is being removed. It is no concern of HCS how much or how little people paid for that extra value. The official value of hell forging an item is - up to now - 50 fsp. And since this is expropiation, the official value counts, not trading prices or any other fictive price.

I can see some technical problems though with deciding the ownership of an item with a bid in the AH.


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