Feedback: Guild Conflict Improvements
#101
fs_maxyn
Posted 29 February 2008 - 00:34
#102
Posted 29 February 2008 - 07:58
First if its a Guild vs Guild then there should be a minimum number of guild members who participate. Otherwise it is just a glorified PVP where a guild can set up one member with the best kit and pile the offensive buffs on and target a weaker member of the opposite guild.
I can't believe that instead of strengthening your "weaker member" you are trying to suggest changing the conditions. That's whining... Every member of your guild should be able to defend your guild on its own range of levels +/-25. There is nothing wrong if GvG is a fight between two their members as both guilds should try their best to equip their guildmates in this conflict. Don't be greedy! Just go and buy the best equipment for your "weaker member". Everything can be surpassed in this game, as there are many enhancements and buffs for PvP. Even 1 vs. 1 is still GvG as many bonuses are gained from guild structures and relics... So, if your guild has a lot of structures you are in much better position comparing to a small guild with 2-3 well-equiped members because very likely the small guild can't upkeep a lot of structures. The problem more likely is in spending all resources on the damage-oriented equipment to go through the levels with 1-hitting, but sorry, that's your choice... It's also your choice to recruit members of levels that are so distant between each other...
Second once a conflict starts all guild members are locked into their respective guild. This is to prevent some guilds from setting up a 1 vs 1 guild conflict and then when counter attacks come dropping members who are getting hit and losing, until there are no members within range of the ONE player allowed to attack
That's reasonable... but there should be a break between conflicts; otherwise members will not be able to leave the guild at all... Perhaps, there should be other rules, like the members that left the guild can't be taken back for the next 2 weeks...
#103
Posted 03 March 2008 - 00:04
#104
Posted 03 March 2008 - 17:52
#105
Posted 03 March 2008 - 19:24
the level cap to attack shouldnt be 25 thats ridiculous.
No, it's ok...
#106
Posted 06 March 2008 - 07:05
+/- 25 levels
I hope Ryouzanpaku Alliance (the most experienced and skillful guild in GvG) can confirm and support an opinion that +25 levels can be challenged decently, though you should be online for most of the time for that because PvP in GvG requires switching between combat sets and a lot of buffs for 24 hours. I also hope that Imel (TEW) can confirm that +23 lvls can be challenged in both ways - attacking and defending despite all the bonuses from fully upgraded structures, relics, and high level buffs. Upgrading +1 Max to combat sets and designing them for PvP is what the GvG is about, not damage points or other purely statistical advantage. Of course, introduction of DC of 400 levels removes the defense stats out of combat sets and make PvP in GvG one-way for higher levels in a range of +25 lvls, because it's just better damage equipment of higher levels and the potion of DC.. As I understand, Ryouzanpaku Alliance lost 25 GvG points yesterday because of a challenging defensive set of -25 lvls player, which means they should beat 5 other guilds to get these points back. Considering how stamina expensive can be these 5 victories over other guilds, they can buy these DC potions for any amount of gold to avoid such losses in future... Please do not remove the defense stats out of PvP by offering DC of such power (or balance it with something defensive) ... it's ok against the creatures, but please no PvP with that... it kills GvG and the range of +/- 25 lvls
1 on 1 conflict:
The Fallen Sword Wiki in the Guild Conflicts section says: "Show me your champion" is a 1 on 1 conflict. I like that definition and it makes sense. Of course, it can be abusable, but I've just had two 1 vs. 1 conflicts against TEW and Ryouzanpaku Alliance and they were not easy at all. First, even if you attack offline members their guildmates protect them with buffs, including the Deflect skill which slows down your attacks enormously. You will need several hours to finish your attacks. At some point their member is online and a real fight of switching equipment begins. I think 1 on 1 is even more exciting than haotic attacks between several members of two guilds because all other guildmates support and advice their only participant with buffs and equipment, the whole guild focus is on their member that fights for the guild. It's not easy, but extremely exciting if you are interested in GvG like Ryouzanpaku Alliance. I think there should be some stats of guildmates that represented their guilds in such 1 on 1 conflicts because those are enormous efforts for 24 hours of the conflict.
If you need more feedbacks or comments just say on what. And please before commenting anything try it on practice. Even though the conflict against Ryouzanpaku Alliance was exhausting for me, I am glad that I learned a lot of things that saw otherwise before that practice.. GvG is really exciting, I would even say several levels higher than killing stupid creatures that can't rearrange their stats or Bounty Hunting where killing is inevitable and there is no point to resist.
Also, I am not sure that Reputation points are rewarded adequately for efforts. I mean I can beat many guilds without so much efforts as with Ryouzanpaku Alliance and still get just one point. Where is a motivation to beat tough guilds?
The Deflect skill is absolutely crucial and valueable for GvG conflicts, so it probably could become the skill on which most of Reputation points will be spent... For instance, one guild initiates a conflict against other guild, the first option for this other guild is to spend Reputation points on casting the Deflect on all their members.
#107
fs_ryozanpaku
Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:41
Feedback
+/- 25 levels
I hope Ryouzanpaku Alliance (the most experienced and skillful guild in GvG) can confirm and support an opinion that +25 levels can be challenged decently, though you should be online for most of the time for that because PvP in GvG requires switching between combat sets and a lot of buffs for 24 hours.
I agree to an extent... +25 level is extremely disadvantageous when one set fights a set up that is a 100% victory.... I.E. Plague vs level 1 player. I cannot fathom a possibility that a level 1 player can beat anyone who is level 20-25... unless you're robnie who had 800 armor and lost to someone with 100 damage.... go figure.
While i'm on this board I think the GvG "prizes" should be much more enticing. 1 RP for a guild exposure? You can just as easily spend 1 fsp for the SB instead of wasting 1 fsp and have the possibility of losing. I really think that if you insist on giving us those packs as a reward, at least make it something worth fighting for. Instead of level 150 skills, make it level 500... it would be much more practical since those who actually spend time doing gvg loses a lot of stam, at least this way we can make up loss xp.
I bet if you give something like a level 1000 FI as a prize, you'll see a lot more action on the GvG.
#108
fs_bigbluedog
Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:57
Feedback
+/- 25 levels
I hope Ryouzanpaku Alliance (the most experienced and skillful guild in GvG) can confirm and support an opinion that +25 levels can be challenged decently, though you should be online for most of the time for that because PvP in GvG requires switching between combat sets and a lot of buffs for 24 hours.
I agree to an extent... +25 level is extremely disadvantageous when one set fights a set up that is a 100% victory.... I.E. Plague vs level 1 player. I cannot fathom a possibility that a level 1 player can beat anyone who is level 20-25... unless you're robnie who had 800 armor and lost to someone with 100 damage.... go figure.
While i'm on this board I think the GvG "prizes" should be much more enticing. 1 RP for a guild exposure? You can just as easily spend 1 fsp for the SB instead of wasting 1 fsp and have the possibility of losing. I really think that if you insist on giving us those packs as a reward, at least make it something worth fighting for. Instead of level 150 skills, make it level 500... it would be much more practical since those who actually spend time doing gvg loses a lot of stam, at least this way we can make up loss xp.
I bet if you give something like a level 1000 FI as a prize, you'll see a lot more action on the GvG.
100% agree, The prizes must be better. What if 10 RP got everyone in the guild 500 FI for 10 hours? then u'd see lots of people doing GVG
#109
Posted 07 March 2008 - 07:11
Feedback
+/- 25 levels
I hope Ryouzanpaku Alliance (the most experienced and skillful guild in GvG) can confirm and support an opinion that +25 levels can be challenged decently, though you should be online for most of the time for that because PvP in GvG requires switching between combat sets and a lot of buffs for 24 hours.
I agree to an extent... +25 level is extremely disadvantageous when one set fights a set up that is a 100% victory.... I.E. Plague vs level 1 player. I cannot fathom a possibility that a level 1 player can beat anyone who is level 20-25... unless you're robnie who had 800 armor and lost to someone with 100 damage.... go figure.
Ok, level 1 player should learn how to navigate in this game, but ... yes ... that's, of course, a possibility that there are extremely disadvantageous levels.. hopefully HCS could add some items to some stages of leveling up if there were feedbacks based on fighting in +/- 25 lvls. So far, I see +25 lvl player can be challenged, there is no needs to make this range shorter. Bring feedbacks from different levels and perhaps some adjustments will follow...
While i'm on this board I think the GvG "prizes" should be much more enticing. 1 RP for a guild exposure? You can just as easily spend 1 fsp for the SB instead of wasting 1 fsp and have the possibility of losing. I really think that if you insist on giving us those packs as a reward, at least make it something worth fighting for. Instead of level 150 skills, make it level 500... it would be much more practical since those who actually spend time doing gvg loses a lot of stam, at least this way we can make up loss xp.
I bet if you give something like a level 1000 FI as a prize, you'll see a lot more action on the GvG.
I have slightly different suggestion. Instead of offering ridiculously powerful skills as a reward, develop guild unique skills that are not available otherwise than for RPs. Currently, leveling up of players is rewarded with new skills, so most players are focused on that... The guild-unique skills will force to spend some stamina on GvG and perhaps slow down individual leveling up... It's tempting to see the powerful guilds interested in GvG fighting for RPs... especially, if the guild-unique skills will give some advantage for SE hunters of that guild. It would be also great to see some GvG-oriented skills, that help fighting against higher level players in a range of +25 lvls.. There is a lack of new ideas for individual skills, but the GvG area is open for development... there are many specific things in GvG that require skills, like switching combat sets during PvP, attack anticipation, extending skills (for PvP only) for the time of the conflict, guildmates assist, etc..
#110
Posted 09 March 2008 - 21:27
#111
Posted 10 March 2008 - 02:40
This has been said from the very beginning to fix the guild conflict you do not need to widen the level gap because it is very hard to defend against someone that is 25 levels higher then you. What needs to be done and the code has been written in the mutiny system and it could be applied to the Guild conflict system and speak up if you agree with me and quote me and say "I agree" is to make it so you can not leave or be kicked while your guild is in a guild conflict it takes away the exploit of hitting someone 25 levels lower then you. Also would take away from a guild that is only 1 or 2 members that have been trying to raise up because they pick on the lowest level they can, because it is very hard to defend from a higher level attack you could even make it 5 levels below and 25 levels above. Because there not attacking above them there always attacking below them. Also the rewards for the RP needs to be worked on they are not really worth buying them because not everyone can be on the same time and really who needs the battle pack a with fortify we need Dark Curse Last ditch and Deflect in a guild conflict for longer then 3 or 4 hrs. Right now we do not use more then the leveler pack and it is hard to get everyone to be online to take advantage of it because it is only for 4 hrs. The cost for them is very high indeed 10 rp for 4 hrs of buffs. The is 10fsp and gold which could equal to 100,000s of gold.
I will probably give more comments later, here are just few remarks and suggestions... I don't know about other levels but on 150+ lvls you can defend yourself against 175+ lvls very effectively. That was tested.. My suggestion would be an enhancement that gives a chance to a lower level player to increase the stats (or anything) when he is attacked by higher level player in GvG... so the higher difference in levels the higher chance that an attack of higher level player will find an increase in some stats of lower level player... but it shouldn't work when a lower level player attacks a higher level player... Perhaps, it could be a guild structure for that enhancement... Regarding small guilds and an attacking range, I attacked +23 lvls higher player vs. TEW, my level and +12 lvls higher player vs. Ryouzanpaku Alliance, and 5 members of my level and 7 members of lower level members in your guild... There are no any differences, I lost one attack vs Ryouzanpaku Alliance, and I lost one attack vs. your guild (btw, my attack was lost to a lower level player in your guild)... Both members of Ryouzanpaku Alliance were buffed shortly after I attacked them and one of them occasionally switched combat sets... So, the result of my attacks was the same in both cases -> 1 attack lost ... so it doesn't look that levels affected the overall result of attacking... And I was +500 points more powerful vs. your guild than when I attacked Ryouzanpaku Alliance... However, I agree that the 1 on 1 conflict or "show me your champion" should be changed to the true 1 on 1 conflict because currently I can attack many members and finish 100 attacks in 30 minutes, while other guild should spend ~ 10 hours struggling vs. the Deflect ... so that's of course an advantage... Anyway, 1 on 1 should be true 1 on 1 as it was when I attacked TEW and they had only one member in my attacking range, so it was indeed 1 vs. 1 ... and we attacked each other... Perhaps, the guild that initiates the 1 on 1 conflict should offer their champion and other guild should have an hour to decide who will be their champion for that fight... so after that it should be true 1 on 1 and it should be finished within 1-2 hours, and without the Deflect because in "show me your champion" it takes hours to finish 50 attacks...
#112
Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:05
the level cap to attack shouldnt be 25 thats ridiculous.
No, it's ok...... believe me :wink: ... at least in my range... 150 to 180 levels... it only looks ridiculous in the eyes of a hunter on the creatures where everything is put together for one goal -> 1-hitting... The PvP against higher level players requires almost completely opposite... That means other level point allocation and other buffs and enhancements... of course, you don't have many chances against higher level players if you are equipped and trained for 1-hitting the creatures... That's a specialty, you can choose to stop quick leveling up and enjoy PvP in GvG ...
Okay so your hitting level 127 that seems fair and balanced . Not players higher then you.
I agree...the return to 25 levels is dumb. On the low side it should be no more than 5 levels MAX. I would actually be in favor of only being able to attack players equal to or greater than my level. That is more of a challenge than lobbing nerfs at ppl 25 levels below me.
GvG Is not working IMO Its not fairly based -- deffinatly needs to be worked on.
Yes change it so you can only hit players higher then you then it would be a challenging thing. Because right now players picking on the little guy is more a bully system to sink gold out of the game then it is a system to show any real skill. Take gold to start conflicts take gold to repair your equipment.
Yes avvakum you lost to a little guy some times the chances win out but that does not happen all the time some times there is the lucky dodge critical hit, but when playing the odds the higher level with a better set up will win.
You have proven that the system is broken and needs fixed thank you avvakum.
#113
Posted 10 March 2008 - 07:34
Yes avvakum you lost to a little guy some times the chances win out but that does not happen all the time some times there is the lucky dodge critical hit, but when playing the odds the higher level with a better set up will win.
You have proven that the system is broken and needs fixed thank you avvakum.
Actually, for my attacking combat sets, level point allocation and specific buffs there is no any difference in the results between attacking -25 lvls or +25 lvls players.. That's because I can overcome 2200 defense with my attack+DC and still have ~1800 defense and 700 damage ( or 1000 with potions)... I have several prepared combat sets which vary between attack and defense sometimes summing up to 3800-4000 points (with buffs) only in those 2 characteristics, add to these combat sets DC, 1000 damage, Piercing and Critical hits 100% ... When I attacked your guild the sum of my points was close to 5000 points... ~ 4600 points allocated in attack, defense and damage... that could kill even 200 level player with the same result... The problem with 1 on 1 is that I can prepare such a devastating combat set and use it on offline players... even massive buffing can't help in such situation... 1-3 lost attacks with such combat set is ok due to Dodge, Last Ditch or a powerful armor set and several round fighting... There is no problem for me to attack higher level players, the result will be the same... it just makes attacking range shorter...
The system is not broken due to -/+ 25 lvls, rather other conditions should be changed... I already suggested (above) how 1 on 1 should look like... I also have other suggestion on how to balance PvP in GvG... It's simple, make the chances of Critical hit dependant on the level differences between players but only in case when lower level player is attacked by a higher level player... It shouldn't be applied when a lower level player attacks a higher level player ... If players have the same levels then Critical hit should work as usual, if a higher level player attacks -25 lvl player he should be afraid that in case of missing or enhancements he can get like 50% critical hit on succesful hit... Something like that... the range of +/- 25 lvls will be ok with such addition...
#114
Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:34
#115
Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:03
although I dont really GVG with my guild! and have never started a conflict and was off line for the 1 time we were attacked, I think that you would get alot more responce to this system if you had the pr buffs a permanent thing while your gvg is a certain level! so that if your gvg was xxxx you would have the buff untill either you were nocked back down or gained xxxx and got the next buff! I have people from at least 9 countries in my guild and in a 4 hour span we would never be able to benefit even half the guild!
I've already suggested once to make it possible to activate own buffs on yourself for stamina gain per hour.. so a buff remains active until you deactivate it, but it takes your stamina gain per hour... so you get less current stamina overall, but it will be possible to protect yourself while offline... But this type of activation only for your own buffs... So, if you have 80 stamina gain per hour you can activate 3-4 buffs for stamina gain per hour to protect yourself... The answer was that it is a little bit too close to the game automation, but I don't know if that is... the buffs just add some points the same way as equipment, so if it will be expensive in terms of stamina gain and limited to 3-4 buffs I think it's ok... it can be as an upgrade also... 2 buffs for stamina gain by default and other can be upgraded...
#116
Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:58
1. The conflict 1 on 1 can be initiated by a Guild Founder only if a Guild Founder of other guild is online.
2. The Guild Founder who initiates the 1 on 1 conflict should offer a champion and two starting time (in the conflict initiating menu), other Guild Founder should accept one of offered times and nominate their champion for that fight in 30 minutes. The offered times should have some interval between, e.g. 12 hours, and can't start immediately after the conflict initiation (at least 30 minutes).
3. The number of attacks should be around 25 and no more than 2 hours in the 1 on 1 conflict. So, 25 x 2 min. + Deflect, so it should be ok.
You have no idea how it is exciting when two online players with all possible buffs fight each other for their guilds. The range of +/- 25 lvls is ok, but a champion should be at least a 50 lvl player or something like that. Additionally, there can be an enhancement or a buff available for RPs that helps to balance the difference between players in levels, e.g. the bigger difference, the higher chances for a low level player to strike some powerful hit... that can make the range wider...
#117
Posted 12 March 2008 - 07:16
#118
fs_rufus83
Posted 25 March 2008 - 18:28
#119
fs_dimcirith
Posted 31 March 2008 - 21:52
Would Make My Job Easier
#120
fs_badjoe
Posted 28 April 2008 - 19:53
The rewards for conflicts need to be improved! Badjoe put forward a suggestion
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=53958
His numbers were a little unrealistic but the premis is fine.
At the moment 1 fsp & 10,000 gold = 1RP so Power leveller is worth 10fsp & 100,000 gold (If you manage to win every conflict!) That's crazy!
Yah guys call me stupid for adding those crazy buffs but on the bright side it will tempt people to donate more money to get more FSP to get those buff. (get my idea ? )
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