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Antiscam/spam measure


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Poll: Like this? (24 member(s) have cast votes)

Like this?

  1. Yes (20 votes [68.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.97%

  2. No (9 votes [31.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.03%

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#1 fs_coyotik

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 09:24

Here's a solution borrowed from another place:

For each incoming message, we currently have "reply" and "buff" options.

I suggest that one more is added - "mark as abusive". (This could include spam, scam, insults).

When a message is reported as such by anybody, the sender's "spam index" increases by 1 (and the message is automatically archived into a separate database table).

When the spam index of the sender reaches a certain value (10?), he is automatically put into non-messaging mode (which could be done in two different ways - loud and silent. Silent would just cause ALL his messages to be stored into /dev/null, while loud would actually tell him "you've been flagged as spammer by others" when he clicks on "send message" in somebody's profile).

He would them have to write a support ticket to try and get his "ban" lifted. The support staff could with one click retrieve all his messages that have been marked as abusive - and decide whether he deserves unlocking or not.

Such system would have some benefits:

1) stopping scammers quickly and thus protecting the gullible newbies
2) gathering evidence for HCS support (they could even actively check for recently spam-banned accounts and try to look for their real owners).
3) give players a break when it comes to reporting insults. I don't know why the support staff anyway asks for screenshots (that can be easily faked) if all they have to do is a simple database query :)

#2 fs_badjoe

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 09:56

I LUV IT !!

#3 fs_coyotik

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 10:22

I'll just add that something similar will be deployed in a game with close to 1 million ACTIVE users, where there are about 300 volunteer staffers who currently have to deal with the abusive message reports manually.

#4 allenplay

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 13:49

Hmm.... great idea I LOVE it! However it does need some tweaking. Someone could spam a message for no reason and that would be +1. Then to get rid of it he would want everybody to spam his message and then teh devs waste their time enabling chatting again.

#5 fs_redeye52

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 17:43

Well, this could be abused, but I don't think that would last very long. If you mark a message as spam (or whatever) it is logged as OP says. If they log the message, who sent it, AND who flagged it, problem solved. If you flag someone as spam when the message is not abusive, then you will get a temp suspension (or whatever the Devs want to do). That would solve that problem real quick.

I LOVE this idea. It would save everyone a LOT of trouble & headaches. Brilliant! 8)

#6 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 18:58

Well thought out, and needed...good idea!

#7 fs_bladeboss

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 19:57

Yes :)

#8 cyrus7

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 00:00

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.

#9 fs_vampirarmy

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 00:04

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.


I agree, however much I want this implemented. The scammers could easily use the Report button as much as we could.

#10 fs_badjoe

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 00:05

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.


Who the hell said this idea will be automatically be dealt by a pc ? If you think that an AI going to determine all of this then you are soooooo on the wrong side !! The cows are the ones that will deal with this issue and not an AI.

#11 fs_vampirarmy

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 00:22

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.


Who the hell said this idea will be automatically be dealt by a pc ? If you think that an AI going to determine all of this then you are soooooo on the wrong side !! The cows are the ones that will deal with this issue and not an AI.


Some newbies will want to have a trigger-happy button. :roll: They don't know better...The cows will be flooded with work, and remember, Fallen Sword isn't their only game.

#12 cyrus7

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 01:36

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.

Who the hell said this idea will be automatically be dealt by a pc ? If you think that an AI going to determine all of this then you are soooooo on the wrong side !! The cows are the ones that will deal with this issue and not an AI.

umm this says that it would be "AI" (using the word "automatically" a couple times):

When a message is reported as such by anybody, the sender's "spam index" increases by 1 (and the message is automatically archived into a separate database table).

When the spam index of the sender reaches a certain value (10?), he is automatically put into non-messaging mode (which could be done in two different ways - loud and silent. Silent would just cause ALL his messages to be stored into /dev/null, while loud would actually tell him "you've been flagged as spammer by others" when he clicks on "send message" in somebody's profile).



#13 fs_coyotik

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 09:11

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).


Just tell me... how many messages a day you send out to unknown people? If I exclude negative replies to beggars (which I would not send with the proposed system), my count is exactly 0 messages in the last 48 hours :). I occasionally message somebody who's selling something in the AH with long deadline if I want it now, but that's about it.

And, as a person who's handling such abuse reports in a one-million-user game, I can tell you that the ratio between good and bad reports is something like 20:1 or better.

Sure, it would quite soon weed out trolling morons who just like to insult people - but that's the POINT :).

Do you think that you would accumulate 10 false reports quickly? If so, I'm sure that the support staff would remove your messaging-ban in no time.

This proposal is a solution that actually drastically cuts down the time requirements on the support staff, because instead of having to deal with each abuse report individually (checking whether the screenshot is not fake to start with), they would only have to deal with people who have accumulated 10 reports and claim they did not deserve it.

#14 fs_coyotik

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 09:15

I agree, however much I want this implemented. The scammers could easily use the Report button as much as we could.


Hmm... exactly how? If a scammer bothers me, I just click "report as abusive" and DON'T write to him :). He gets owned by the system within minutes, so there's no need to waste any more energy on him.

There's the possibility to automatically put players on ignore-list as well when you've reported a message from them as abusive,

In any case, there's absolutely no need to write back to them.

#15 fs_greggacam

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 13:36

As the only abuse rep in a large ISP...
I say NO.
An easy-to-click button generates LOTS more (bogus) complaints than if you have to create a separate ticket. People cry "abuse" for anything and everything, and when used with an automatic reputation system, that is going to punish someone who may not actually be causing "abuse". Then you have to have someone to deal with the fakers (read all complaints and suspend accounts of false reporters, etc).

It's not that hard to create support ticket and copy/paste the "offending" message.


Agreed

#16 doa4life

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 14:10

No, we already have the ignore option, Thats were scammers go when they scam or send me unwanted messages. You can take care of scammers and such yourselves withough wasting the dev's time.



JUST HIT THE IGNORE BUTTON! Works the same! Plus its instant.

#17 fs_coyotik

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 14:23

No, we already have the ignore option, Thats were scammers go when they scam or send me unwanted messages. You can take care of scammers and such yourselves withough wasting the dev's time.

JUST HIT THE IGNORE BUTTON! Works the same! Plus its instant.


First, it's not just "hit the ignore button", you actually have to copypaste the bloody name :).

Second, just ignoring annoying people is bad IMHO. We should find a way to effectively fight them, to REMOVE them from the system - doing a service to all other users. And it's not only about scammers, it's about rude idiots who just cannot control their temper.

#18 greenguru

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 15:21

I doubt we'll see this system implemented, but it is an awesome idea. Great work again, coyotik.

#19 fs_badjoe

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 17:25

With todays new Token status we get ( http://forum.fallens... ... 729#459729 ) , scam are definitely going down the drain as theres no chance for them to impersonate the admin :lol: !!

#20 fs_coyotik

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 19:54

With todays new Token status we get ( http://forum.fallens... ... 729#459729 ) , scam are definitely going down the drain as theres no chance for them to impersonate the admin :lol: !!


I admire your optimism - but unless any new player gets a big flashing red sign in front of his eyes "this is how the admins look", this accomplishes very little, because having an "admin" seal on admin accounts is only good if people actually know to look for it...


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