Beggars
#1
fs_kelrithian
Posted 25 July 2008 - 14:10
#2
Posted 25 July 2008 - 14:11
Edit: Rofl
Target: xxxxxx Offerer: HCS Reward: TargetLevel*1000 Req. Kills: 10
^ That would be Hilarious! ^
#3
fs_thristle
Posted 25 July 2008 - 14:12
#4
fs_badjoe
Posted 25 July 2008 - 14:45
#5
fs_angiefc
Posted 25 July 2008 - 14:47
"Rodeo clowns and tazers: We round them up with the clowns then have open season."
We could charge admission, 10 gold per shot with the tazer guns.
#6
fs_kelrithian
Posted 25 July 2008 - 15:00
Every day, every other FSbox post, seems to be someone asking for free fsp these days. I'm not quite sure how this happened, perhaps the new players just see others doing it, and figure it might work for them. That said, I find it hard to believe that anyone actually obliges then, though...anyone who is encouraging such behavior needs to rethink what they're doing. Regardless of good intentions, they're only making the problem worse.
Back in the day, we'd get these absurd requests via pm, we'd iggy them, problem solved. The current problem is that it has moved to a public area, where we cannot ignore them, ect ect. Sure, free speech can be argued, but this isn't a democracy, it's Fallensword. And sure, we could turn off our FSBox, but quite frankly, why the hell should we? So what can we do about this?
The only logical answer that I can come up with is...HCS stepping up and saying this behavior is unacceptable, and removing said posts from the shoutbox/FSBox. Just like they do for lude and/or obscene posts. Perhaps some sort of "reporting" feature for the boxes. Now I realize that this would likely be a total pain in the ass for HCS, but I'm not really sure what else would effectively take care of the problem. Maybe even make this an actual offense...meaning the player in question could actually face a temp suspension for multiple offenses.
I know I'm not alone here. Many, many players...the long time players, the players that donate, the players that aren't a drain upon the community...feel the same way. This behavior is extremely annoying, especially when it's shoved in our faces all day long, and we're sick of it. Anyhow, thanks for listening.
#7
fs_tda
Posted 25 July 2008 - 15:11
#8
fs_angiefc
Posted 25 July 2008 - 16:10
Yeah I agree with Kel. First it was the lotteries, then the short-lived yet insane trend of people looking for sugar daddies,and now the loans. It should simply be written into the T&C.
though with all honestly about the lotteries, not every player who ran a game was a scammer, but it only took some to ruin it for everyone.
#9
fs_kelrithian
Posted 25 July 2008 - 16:48
This is a tricky issue, I think. Believe me, I dislike beggars and I get the lions share of them.
But there are challenges to both the BB and the HCS enforcement ideas.
First, begging is more of an issue of etiquette. And we all know that the internet does not contain a lot of that. To punish people for poor etiquette does not seem quite fair, given that any new player, regardless of whether or not they have seen someone else do it, has no prior knowledge of the etiquette around here.
Second, the BB is impossible to implement. You cannot reasonably create a word filter that allows people to post names if they received a PM with the word "free" or "FSP" or "gold". That would put regular players at risk, too, in the course of normal conversation. Furthermore, there is no way to adequately account for the possibility that people who thought they were friends with someone asked for help... etc.
This rolls over into the HCS enforcement issue. This would create a whole can of worms for them to have to determine what constitutes begging. If the people had prior knowledge of each other, former guildmates who thought they could ask for help, or just a random beggar. It's not like they would want to dedicate more work time to this.
At best HCS could include a notice on the new "home page" that "Begging for gold and FSP is not generally accepted in this realm." or even, "If you beg often, you may find yourself the target of other players' ire or even attacks."
Then, any sort of enforcement would necessarily be a player managed system such as the Wall of Shame or even like the OSBH.
Yeah, regarding the bounty board, that was just a joke, and impossible to actually implement. Perhaps I shouldn't have started the thread out in such a way, heh...but oh well. It got me to thinking about an actual solution.
Eludain makes some good points about the difficulty associated with HCS enforcement. I do however, think that if this was written into the T&C as TDA suggested...it would at least help the problem, whether they made a serious effort to enforce it or not.
As far as a player managed system goes, perhaps this is the best solution. Maybe if we started passing along the information, as in...screenshotting the posts and creating a forum specifically for this purpose, then we could just all mass-iggy the players, and this alone would discourage such behavior. The players in question certainly wouldn't be too happy when they find themselves on every high-level players iggy list...when the time comes to buy buffs, ect ect. Then again, how many people would really read this forum. However, if every well-known buffer in the game did so, I'd imagine it would make a difference.
Then again, I'm not even sure if this would be considered some form of harassment. Speaking of the WOS, I know there were some problems associated with this when it started. That said, as far as I'm concerned...begging itself should be considered harassment, especially when done via pm, and should be a suspendable offense.
#10
Posted 25 July 2008 - 17:26
I've seen more than one I'd put a ticket on of late
#11
Posted 25 July 2008 - 17:45
This is a tricky issue, I think. Believe me, I dislike beggars and I get the lions share of them.
But there are challenges to both the BB and the HCS enforcement ideas.
First, begging is more of an issue of etiquette. And we all know that the internet does not contain a lot of that. To punish people for poor etiquette does not seem quite fair, given that any new player, regardless of whether or not they have seen someone else do it, has no prior knowledge of the etiquette around here.
Second, the BB is impossible to implement. You cannot reasonably create a word filter that allows people to post names if they received a PM with the word "free" or "FSP" or "gold". That would put regular players at risk, too, in the course of normal conversation. Furthermore, there is no way to adequately account for the possibility that people who thought they were friends with someone asked for help... etc.
This rolls over into the HCS enforcement issue. This would create a whole can of worms for them to have to determine what constitutes begging. If the people had prior knowledge of each other, former guildmates who thought they could ask for help, or just a random beggar. It's not like they would want to dedicate more work time to this.
At best HCS could include a notice on the new "home page" that "Begging for gold and FSP is not generally accepted in this realm." or even, "If you beg often, you may find yourself the target of other players' ire or even attacks."
Then, any sort of enforcement would necessarily be a player managed system such as the Wall of Shame or even like the OSBH.
Yeah, regarding the bounty board, that was just a joke, and impossible to actually implement. Perhaps I shouldn't have started the thread out in such a way, heh...but oh well. It got me to thinking about an actual solution.
Eludain makes some good points about the difficulty associated with HCS enforcement. I do however, think that if this was written into the T&C as TDA suggested...it would at least help the problem, whether they made a serious effort to enforce it or not.
As far as a player managed system goes, perhaps this is the best solution. Maybe if we started passing along the information, as in...screenshotting the posts and creating a forum specifically for this purpose, then we could just all mass-iggy the players, and this alone would discourage such behavior. The players in question certainly wouldn't be too happy when they find themselves on every high-level players iggy list...when the time comes to buy buffs, ect ect. Then again, how many people would really read this forum. However, if every well-known buffer in the game did so, I'd imagine it would make a difference.
Then again, I'm not even sure if this would be considered some form of harassment. Speaking of the WOS, I know there were some problems associated with this when it started. That said, as far as I'm concerned...begging itself should be considered harassment, especially when done via pm, and should be a suspendable offense.
I figured the BB thing was just a joke, but a guy can dream.
But, unless I'm misreading your original post, I think you and the Great Hippo of Magicalness Eludain are incorrect about it being difficult for HCS to enforce. A pain in the parts they sit on, but doable.
Begging in the SB should be handled, though maybe not as severely as we'd like. I definitely feel that a 3 strikes system is fair for this. Begging in the SB is somewhat of a nuisance. But, I disagree with Eludain, in that it doesn't require strong action because it's a matter of etiquette. If that were the case, then cursing in the SB shouldn't be frowned upon, either. That's only poor etiquette as well.
As for people privately messaging and begging, well, that's what an ignore list is for. No need to punish someone for that, unless it becomes abusive and harassing.
Public begging however, should be publicly discouraged.
#12
fs_killer422
Posted 25 July 2008 - 17:51
why?how do HCS know if somebody is a beggar?have at least one moderator online every second to check FSbox shoutbox etc?or do they make it that if certain words are said,they are auto bountied?then what if i say this to my friend:"hey man,i need an fsp to get some buffs since i spent all mine on upgrades,can i borrow one please?"will i be counted as a beggar just because me, a lvl 142 ran out of points and needed to borrow one from his friends?
#13
Posted 25 July 2008 - 18:16
this would be nice to have,but IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
why?how do HCS know if somebody is a beggar?have at least one moderator online every second to check FSbox shoutbox etc?or do they make it that if certain words are said,they are auto bountied?then what if i say this to my friend:"hey man,i need an fsp to get some buffs since i spent all mine on upgrades,can i borrow one please?"will i be counted as a beggar just because me, a lvl 142 ran out of points and needed to borrow one from his friends?
probably wont happen but it isnt at all hard to determine - it certainly wouldn't apply to PM as was just mentioned and at worst it would require a ticket to HCS requesting a player be bountiable
but it is doable without too much effort I imagine
#14
Posted 25 July 2008 - 19:28
how do HCS know if somebody is a beggar?
easy. It's common sense.
FSBox message #1: ZOMG!!! It's my birfday!!!!!11one!! sned me fspeeze!!!
That's begging... plain and simple
Message #2: Insert any random fsp "loan w/ obscene amount of promised payback" message that has been up there lately.
That's begging... plain and simple
et cetera, etcetera... I'm sure others can come up with other, and probably better examples.
It doesn't need to be an automatic word filter. Policing of multis and the like seem to work through the ticket system seems to work decently; there's no reason it wouldn't work as well for this.
No one is saying you should be terminated for asking a guildy or friend for a loaner. Soliciting complete strangers? Yup, then they deserve the banstick, or at least a good thumping.
I still say a structured loan system set up by HCS where players could offer secured fsp loans to borrowers would help to stem the tide of this, as I suggested in another thread.
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