Jump to content

Enhancements - 4 ideas for the price of one


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

Poll: Like this? (11 member(s) have cast votes)

Like this?

  1. Yes (13 votes [81.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.25%

  2. No (3 votes [18.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 12 August 2008 - 19:33

So, I will revive my previous ideas again.

Short version:

I. Allow Enhancements to go over 100%
II. Change Empower buff from increasing the new limit of enhamcenemts
III. Allow partial Elite Hunter bonuses from individual set items and/or incomplete sets.
IV. Add new guild structures to complement the above changes.

Details:

Q: Why?
A: Because the game is boring. There are tons of possibly interesting items (quest rewards and the like) that nobody uses, because they're inferior to your average guildlocked legendary stuff, because they would break existing sets and because even if they are interesting due to their ehnancements, everyone has PS/CH at 100% anyway...

Q: What should the new enhancement limit be?
A: Plenty of choices. I.e. add 5% for every 5 player levels, add 10% for every level of a new guild structure, add a flat bonus, or don't add nothing but what Empower gives.

Q: What should Empower give?
A: Increase the maximum enhancement level by i.e. 0.5% per point (Empower 150 would allow enhancements to go up to 175%). Number to be tweaked depending on if there will be any other bonuses (see previous Q) to not make it too powerful.

Q: Any limitations?
A: Yes, Fury caster should be definitely excluded, possibly other enhancements as well, esp Elite Hunter, see below.

Q: What about the partial Elite Hunter?
A: First, I don't want to hear that EH should be 0 or 100% only. HCS evidently don't think so as there are lesser sets giving less than 100% and there are even standalone items that give a little EH themselves.

Q: So, how should the EH work?
A: There are a few alternatives:
A1: Each set item has EH bonus of 100 divided by items_in_set divided by 2. That would mean that the Set bonus would be 50% EH and the remaining 50% would be divided among the items.
A2: Each item has a fixed EH bonus, rather smallish (5-10 points?) and the set bonus provides the remainder to 100%, no matter how many items.
A3: Set items have no EH themselves, but the set bonus to EH is calculated based on how many items are missing.

Q: Why the fuss anyway?
A: Because it would be GOOD for the game to give us more interesting and good (as in "not inferior to other strategies") choices. It's nice to get a quest reward weapon with +50 PS and CH, but totally useless because it happens to break a legendary set that almost everyone wears at that level - AND totally useless because we already have PS and CH at 100%. So, this suggestion attemps to solve both ends - give us a reason why to use such good items AND remove or at least decrease the XP loss caused by breaking up a set.

If I break up a 4 item set and get 75 EH instead of 100 EH, I might be able to get the remaining 25% elsewhere, or I might want to make this sacrifice at the cost of scoring 1hitkills with PS...

Q: What about the guild structures?
A: One could increase the enhancement max cap (or effectiveness of Empower), another could modify the EH decrease from incomplete sets.

#2 fs_ecofrog

fs_ecofrog
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:02

So, I will revive my previous ideas again.

Short version:
III. Allow partial Elite Hunter bonuses from individual set items and/or incomplete sets.


The 2 part level 408 Xind set only gives 75% Elite Hunter...

#3 fs_angiefc

fs_angiefc
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:07

I like the idea, especially of the elite hunting thing. That is honestly the only thing that really keeps me from trying out non set items. There are items, non crystal non set, that you could use 9 different peices to make really good one hit kills but you lose several set only bonuses like elite hunter.

#4 Dark Archon

Dark Archon

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,346 posts

Posted 13 August 2008 - 06:24

There are some items with elite hunter enhancements on them...

Also... I once made a thread on how bad empower was... and stated that they should either look at doubling the %age it increases by, making it capable of making enhancements go past 100%, or doing both...

#5 fs_azuk

fs_azuk
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 06:26

So, I will revive my previous ideas again.

Short version:
III. Allow partial Elite Hunter bonuses from individual set items and/or incomplete sets.


The 2 part level 408 Xind set only gives 75% Elite Hunter...



All champion sets should give 75% elite hunter bonus thats how they were desigend

#6 fs_bugeye33

fs_bugeye33
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 14:53

and the new arena sets only give 50% elite hunter

#7 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 15:22

I am aware of sets that give less than 100%. I know that last time I came with the idea of partial EH, a lot of people opposed it claiming that EH is there to make people wear sets :).

I think that it would be good for the variety in the gameplay if we could reach the 100% EH enhancement by other possibilities than wearing one complete set...

#8 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 18:28

about the enhansments go over 100% i dont think thats fair, if you can get percing strke up to 200% and you do a lot of pvp then it works ever time, same for master theft, if you can get it up to 200% or higher, you chould clean everyones gold out, but other than that the other ideas you have arnt that bad

#9 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 13 August 2008 - 18:53

about the enhansments go over 100% i dont think thats fair, if you can get percing strke up to 200% and you do a lot of pvp then it works ever time, same for master theft, if you can get it up to 200% or higher, you chould clean everyones gold out, but other than that the other ideas you have arnt that bad


First, there's always room for discussion and as I don't do PvP at all, I wouldn't if this was PvM only :).

Second, there's protection, dodge, first strike enhancements for the defender as well :).

#10 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 18:56

bump

#11 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 19:00

about the enhansments go over 100% i dont think thats fair, if you can get percing strke up to 200% and you do a lot of pvp then it works ever time, same for master theft, if you can get it up to 200% or higher, you chould clean everyones gold out, but other than that the other ideas you have arnt that bad


First, there's always room for discussion and as I don't do PvP at all, I wouldn't if this was PvM only :).

Second, there's protection, dodge, first strike enhancements for the defender as well :).


1 out of 2million ppl dont do pvp...yeah...

#12 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:02

1 out of 2million ppl dont do pvp...yeah...


Hmm... just wait till you hit some serious 2hitkilling and you'll see... and by the way, it's more likely 20.000 than 2 million. Ask some level 20 what is his ranking :)

#13 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:09


1 out of 2million ppl dont do pvp...yeah...


Hmm... just wait till you hit some serious 2hitkilling and you'll see... and by the way, it's more likely 20.000 than 2 million. Ask some level 20 what is his ranking :)


you have a point, i know it would save most ppl lost of stamina, but not everyone just lvls, theres some ppl that all they do is pvp, pvp arena, and bounty hunt, this is a good idea, but it can be over used very quickly

#14 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:22

you have a point, i know it would save most ppl lost of stamina, but not everyone just lvls, theres some ppl that all they do is pvp, pvp arena, and bounty hunt, this is a good idea, but it can be over used very quickly


As I said above, the impact of the increased enhancements could be tweaked to prevent it from changing PvP too much... but especially with the DC buff, PvP is imho seriously nerfed anyway as there's no way to defend yourself from anyone in your range - if they really want to kill you, they will, even without the help of random, and even against first strike... - so, worrying about getting master-thieved is not a big issue anyway, the only good solution is not to be an interesting target.

#15 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:27

i think if it does go into effect, then no more than 150-175%

#16 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:36

i think if it does go into effect, then no more than 150-175%


That's where I was aiming the proposal, allowing extra 0.5% per skill point in empower, so 175% instead of 100% for buff level 150.

There would also be room for guild structures (like fury caster maybe, 5% per upgrade) - and there is also the possibility of allowing higher numbers AND changing the actual percentages in the game engine.

That would be actually the preferred solution, because reaching 180% is SO EASY. Just now I checked a random guildmember... Non-forged King Au Xenah set alone 85, guild structure 60... Another has FF hunter which gives 110 on its own...

#17 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:39

yeah, i figured that some of my stats would be easily 150%+ i think it would be kinda intreseting if this were to happon

#18 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:48

yeah, i figured that some of my stats would be easily 150%+ i think it would be kinda intreseting if this were to happon


Basically, the system would have to be tuned so that it would NOT be easily possible to achieve the max values, definitely not at the same time in several enhancements.

What this game needs are more alternative choices (where the choices are interesting, not of the type of "should I play stupid and put levelup points outside dmg?" :))

We should always face interesting decisions when putting up the gear for levelling. Do I go for max pierce and CH? Or do I try another setup that sacrifices CH for max Dodge?

It would probably require some research by the developers (or even players could help, compiling the statistics on how many points into "useful" enhancements do the items contribute on average... so that the actual limits could be calculated as not to be reachable all at once...

#19 fs_dsjupiter

fs_dsjupiter
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 20:51

Basically, the system would have to be tuned so that it would NOT be easily possible to achieve the max values, definitely not at the same time in several enhancements.


then they would have to do some majior work to do that

#20 fs_coyotik

fs_coyotik
  • Guests

Posted 14 August 2008 - 21:04

Basically, the system would have to be tuned so that it would NOT be easily possible to achieve the max values, definitely not at the same time in several enhancements.


then they would have to do some majior work to do that


Not necessarily major work. If I had the complete item database, producing the stats would be about 2 hours of SQL and sums :) - and after that, one afternoon with beer and a spreadsheet to figure out the exact goals and ways to reach them.

At the end, there would be a simple conclusion like: Guild buildings can provide 500 points and forged legendary items can provide another 1500 points. So, if we want to give players choices, the total of 2000 points indicates that the limit should be i.e. 300 points (meaning 6 enhancements maxed out if everything else is 0, more likely 2-3 maxed out only... but giving the limit at 150 would allow them to max just about everything, which we don't want. Therefore we need a high limit, so we need to halve the effectiveness of enhancements as having piercing strike 300 would be too much...

Yes, it would require some effort, but manageable :). I'd do it for them for two crates of beer :)


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: