Shield Imp revamp
#1
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 08:56
1) Limit it to certain creature types only (i.e. red-blood or green-blood... something like 2-4 classes, 10-15% creeps)
2) Make it a probability buff (yuck, not another one, but I'm listing this possibility because I'm sure that HCS will consider this idea, they gave us a lot of probability buffs)
3) Give the creeps an enhancement that can either kill or temporarily knock down the imp (suggested by tawniteamo)
4) Make the imp survive one hit only AND drain stamina from the player according to the damage taken. Perhaps 1 stamina per (player_level) of damage, so that it will scale with monsters. Def sets would suffer bigger hits with lower probability, Armor sets would suffer smaller hits but more often (pierce) (well, also infrequent big hits from cricitals).
Edit: My favorite is number 4. The stamina drain would give people the motivation to use other, cheaper methods if possible - and it would certainly prevent the new approach to 2hit kills (max dmg and attack and just let the imp catch all the hell from the creep). In other words, shield imp would change from being your defense setup to being your "saviour angel" setup. (Even in that variant, it seriously nerfs a ton of existing buffs like last ditch, shockwave, stun...)
#2
fs_cloudstryf
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:13
#3
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:16
#4
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:17
#5
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:18
Yep... I don't mind if there's an expensive invincibility buff (PvC only, and exluding SE!), but there really should NOT be a "defense setup" buff.
coyotik - in your 4th idea - how would that scale with the points in the skill?
#6
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:26
So for example at lvl 50 - it will absorb between 0% -> 50% of the damage.
At lvl 100 - 0% -> 100% of the damage.
At lvl 150 - 50% -> 100%
How does that sound?
#7
fs_phool
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:31
Players have already used it today to massively level up.
How is it fair to nerf the skill now?
I think the skill should stay the way it is.
#8
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:37
If something is OP or broken - it would be silly to leave it as it is.
#9
fs_phool
Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:57
Phool,
If something is OP or broken - it would be silly to leave it as it is.
It might seem silly, but if a player has already gained over 30 levels using it today how is it fair to the rest of the game for the skill to be nerfed now? Its like giving a free gift to those who had the fsps to level with it.
On the other hand it would be unfair to make those same players level up again.
Perhaps the fix should be outside the skill itself.
But in my opinion it really doesn't seem fair to change the skill now.
#10
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:03
Phool,
If something is OP or broken - it would be silly to leave it as it is.
It might seem silly, but if a player has already gained over 30 levels using it today how is it fair to the rest of the game for the skill to be nerfed now? Its like giving a free gift to those who had the fsps to level with it.
On the other hand it would be unfair to make those same players level up again.
Perhaps the fix should be outside the skill itself.
But in my opinion it really doesn't seem fair to change the skill now.
Life is not fair - but I prefer a little bit of unfairness to a skill that seriously nerfs the whole gameplay.
Edit: I consider it much more unfair that level 500 skills are now so cheap that my estimate is 15 free FSP a day for sellers of arterial strike only (as they have a big market, everyone 186+)
#11
Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:10
Phool,
If something is OP or broken - it would be silly to leave it as it is.
It might seem silly, but if a player has already gained over 30 levels using it today how is it fair to the rest of the game for the skill to be nerfed now? Its like giving a free gift to those who had the fsps to level with it.
On the other hand it would be unfair to make those same players level up again.
Perhaps the fix should be outside the skill itself.
But in my opinion it really doesn't seem fair to change the skill now.
so, by the same logic, it isnt fair that fsp are 100k now when they used to be 20k, i'll take a dozen! (just kidding, using an extreme example to poke a hole in your logic). if it is broken, then fix it. always. dont just avoid fixing it so people will feel snuggly.
i havent used the imp yet, but god-damn did i want to, it sounded like invincibility, and it turns out that's what it was. i dont know why, but i really like the idea of it draining stam, like, shield imp gets hit for 500 damage and magicly used 500 stam to absorb the damage. i strongly suspect the idea will burn in hell and die once people realise just how much stam it will use, but i like it.
i dunno, maybe give it chance to kick in, give it a chance to eat stam, hell, give it a chance to turn against it's Master and run off with your shield, that'll stop them whining
#12
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:16
One thing we could change is make it one hit absorb only, then make the amount of damage it can absorb up to increase with the points.
So for example at lvl 50 - it will absorb between 0% -> 50% of the damage.
At lvl 100 - 0% -> 100% of the damage.
At lvl 150 - 50% -> 100%
How does that sound?
Sorry, it changes nothing. Noone will use the skill below level 150, that's the only effect, just as nobody really uses doubler level 50.
Scaling with skill points only matters in cases where every point counts, meaning every point over a commonly achieavable level. Buffs of level 250+ will almost always be level 150+.
coyotik - in your 4th idea - how would that scale with the points in the skill?
If you insist on linear scaling, just make it another variable in the computation of stamina cost of the imp recharge.
imp_revive_cost = ceil( ( damage_absorbed / player_level ) * ( const / skill_points ) ).
Finetune the cost to your liking. Making it 200 would mean that at level 150, stamina cost would be 1.33*(damage/level), so if I defend with armor and get hit by pierce, the imp will take i.e. 1200 dmg, resulting in stamina cost of 4. If I defend with defense, I get the full hit, maybe 3200, so the revive cost will be 11 (1.33*3200/400). And If I get hit by a normal bad luck (high damage roll) and suffer 110 points of damage, the cost will be 1 stamina
That way, people will still use this buff as the ultimate life-saver, but they will NOT use it to replace their defset completely.
(Perhaps in some cases, they could choose to go for 1hit-kill-on-pierce setups with shockwave and stun as mitigators of retaliation, then it could possibly produce statistically more XP, I'm too lazy to do the math - but certainly it would NOT become the levelling standard).
And the main goal is to keep the buff somehow interesting. You could of course make it a probability buff like last ditch, but in that case it would be easier to just have a "double_last_ditch" buff
#13
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:18
Alot of people already used the skill to hunt. Those who didn't are left out then...
#14
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:20
giving me the ability to 100% protect my character removes the need to consider defense and armor at all. att/dam/xp are all that are required. and being that, everything can be 1 hit.
Not really. I just checked and there simply is no gear to allow 1hit kills.
At level 400, the max damage you can hope for is something like 9100, at level 415 it's 9300, at level 420 it becomes 9600. (using the best available gear FFed).
With the exception of the one undead, this is not enough for 1hitkill dmg. There are a few levels where it will bepretty close, so using bloodlust and a dmg relic and a lot of safety buffs like shockwave, lastditch and stun, odds are that you could make a little more attempting 1hit kills (picking weaker creeps etc) - and the shield imp only makes that more comfortable.
I did not check lower levels, though.
what will likely happen is those players that can donate for 20k+ stamina every week will very quickly displace those that don't.
This is going to happen anyway, buffs or not. If somebody buys stam, they WILL be going up faster than me.
i don't believe that is the right direction for the game even if there are those that have been able to do so. in a month, how bad will it be? how many players will simply walk away from the game because they don't have $100-200 to compete every week?
This is not news and it's still not too bad. I could still make it from from 200 to top 100 without buying stam... How many serious donators are there? A few dozen?
#15
fs_wanndererr
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:30
Than I think you should remove CA and DD as both used together garantee a 1 hitting anywhere ( someone find a creature that with 160% of your damage and 140% of your attack you canoot 1 hit )
And also, we should remove Dull as its only utility is making the game easier when you just made it harder and some low levels argue it was not fair for them.
But than again everyone says : "Life is not fair, do with it" ... funny how those same people argue 2-3 post later about this or that behing unfair :wink:
#16
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:32
Than I think you should remove CA and DD as both used together garantee a 1 hitting anywhere ( someone find a creature that with 160% of your damage and 140% of your attack you canoot 1 hit )
It's not 1-hitting, it's 1.4hitting
#17
fs_wanndererr
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:34
#18
fs_coyotik
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:35
yeah but wither 350 is only 70% 1 hitting + 30% 2 hitting which makes an average of 13 stam per mob
Yep - and what's the average stam per mob with CA? You said 14
#19
fs_wanndererr
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:42
... 40% more stam is too high ... and i am pretty sure we can 1 hit with 45% more damage thus only 25% more stam ... which would make it better than wither 350 ( as it would be 1.25 per mob )
And now is it bette 12.5 vs 13
or you can make it exactly 13 and save 8fps as you don't have to buy wither potion so another 200 stam for you
#20
fs_karigulus
Posted 27 August 2008 - 11:51
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