The MoAT (Mother of All Threads) REF: Suggestions
#1
fs_haeshka
Posted 11 March 2009 - 23:45
What I have noticed is that when people post their suggestions about one way in which to 'fix' or 'solve' an issue... THE SAME FREAKING ARGUMENTS are used to shut it down.. and drive the thread in some random direction... to include people having a discussion about PvP and someone shouting 'we need a new legendary event'. -- wow...
Now, this is not to say that the people who are 'shutting down' others are necessarily terribly wrong... often times if Point A is brought up repeatedly.. all there is as a counter point... is Counter Point B.
So, this naturally means that there must be some 'coterminous' and/or 'conterminous' relationships.. and possibly completely transparent relationships between these issues. Fact of life folks, things 'ripple'... the Democrats try to change things one way.. and it helps that one thing.. but hurts two others.. same goes for those Republicans...
Back to Fallen Sword.
I am going to list off a laundry-list of 'issues' I have seen brought up in a repeated fashion -- and in this first 'post' in this thread I am going to try to keep my opinion out of it.
Some Acronyms/Abbreviations I would like to spell-out right now before things get started for the newer folks -- Gold Sinks does not = GS. Guild Store = GS. Legendary Event = LE. PvP Arena will be "Arena". Fallen Sword Points = FSP.
Gold Sinks
value of Legendary Items
Value of Super Elite Items
Game Content Update Rate
Things for High-levels to do
PvP Arena difficulties in winning
Stagnation of current guild structures -- need new ones?
Alternative 'Tagging' ideas
"Cost" of Crafting (using gold instead of FSP?)
Usefulness of Forging at levels 500+
Epic Items -- Their value, the difficulty in making them, the difference in stats, whatever.
"Endangered" and "Extinct" items (components for epics)
Backpack filtering
Variable Buff-Level casting -- to include stamina-use modification
Legendary Events -- useful? need something different? lag?
Quests -- making them desireable
PvP -- Level-Ranges, Fueds, tweaks, etc?
New Potions
New "Special" auction-house only potions
Buffing while offline
Allowing Guild Founders to set their own rank-name
Information Readily seen on 'Report' page
Making Quests with 'alternate paths' / Failable Quests
Inventing System -- making completing epics more 'possible'
Guild "Mass" Messaging -- system for only to 'certain' ranks? -- (Rank 'tag' system)
Putting plants in the 'component' slots
PvP Arena -- changing the prizes/ having three separate 'areas' for gold/items/moves
Alternative uses for Stamina.
What I would like to see is what people -- in just a few short sentences think about some of these individual topics, PLEASE avoid long diatribes. And let us see if we can interconnect many of these to provide REALISTIC solutions. Just saying 'take away all the find item potions' -- is not a solution folks.. 'inter-connectivity' means their will be a ripple throughout the game.
Also, if I have missed any main themes, PLEASE let me know. And, let's start providing LINKS to other already started threads to get it all in one nice one-stop-shop.
#2
fs_haeshka
Posted 11 March 2009 - 23:51
So far, in my opinion, the Arena has demonstrated GREAT capability as a gold-sink.. ESPECIALLY with the 'Gold Reward' tournaments as they remove slightly more gold than they bring into the game.
I feel that the arena 'entrance' should be divided into three 'zones' --
One for Gold Rewards, one for Item Rewards, and one for Moves. They should update independently of one another so that people can continue to earn moves faster or what-have-you.
I would call for the complete removal of all EQUIPMENT items that can already be earned in the game through normal means (the tri set.. lord valks.. etc..) -- if an item is going to be given in the arena.. it needs to be one of the 'endangered' items (the components for the epic recipes, even possibly brides) or it needs to be potions or items unique to the arena.
Some threads I have seen that cover this already.
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=76150
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78444
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78395
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78255
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78105
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=77958
Now -- to follow through, this would **I BELIEVE** DISCONTINUE the ever-declining value of some of those 'elite' items as well as those poor Shield of Steep Nojors that are out there. (inter-connectivity). And, I do believe this would keep arenas flowing faster and give more players the opportunity to 'jump into' the arena and earn moves so they can participate everywhere.
If anyone can think of any NEGATIVE repercussions.. PLEASE let me know
#3
Posted 12 March 2009 - 00:11
The list made to make gold value higer is nicely made and i agree with most of them and news ideas could be added Smile, as buying a secret packages containing common, unique ,rare all will depend on the amout of gold payed for it.
#4
Posted 12 March 2009 - 00:30
I would like to add a few topics that rather than appearing in the suggestion forum, have been prominent in the General/Feedback section. I believe that they are posted where they belong, but that they also need to be discussed in depth by all of us. First and foremost, this is our game. I know that HCS owns it, and it is a business for them, but unless the general population is reasonably happy, not only those higher levels that wait barely patiently for new content, but the new players that just started 15 minutes ago and have no idea what to do first, HCS had no business. WE are the lifeblood of this business, and are as essential as the electricity that powers the massive servers that house our game.
There are many good ideas in this thread that cover the econonic issues, primarily keeping our veterans interested while making the game enjoyable for the newest so that they will come back to grow some more tomorrow:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78405
Secondly, many suggestions revolve around features that are already available in the FSHelper. I realize that not everybody uses Firefox, and those are the players that would most benefit from implementation of the features that the FSHelper provides for those of us that do use Firefox. HCS implemented many of the features available in Tharnakus's plug in after we asked for them en masse. But we have to be united, and in order to do this, we need to familiarize ourselves with the features that are needed most for the day to day game play. Details and discussion of the FSHelper are found here:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=73245
Now, just a short bit about my favorite topic on Haeshka's list: PvP
I love PvP. It's what I love most about this game, and it saddens me that so many hate it, when it is so much fun, and it is basically how this game is designed to be played. Now, I'm not talking about the arena, or GvG, which also need some serious changes, I'm talking about my style of play, hit and run, dancing on the bounty board, stealing your gold PvP.
One of the best topics that discusses some realistic and logical changes to PvP can be found here:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=58371
There are many others, but this one is no nonsense, and one of the most popular solutions by far. It is also one of the most widely discussed.
One more topic that I think deserves attention, only because it brings back some fun into the game and also would serve as a great gold sink is Ecolitan's gift shop. I want this idea to fly, I really do. Please visit and comment...
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78490
I, too, like Haeshka, hope that we can make this thread a hotbead of positive input, so that we can clearly state to HCS what we need and what we want with a minimum of rhetoric and even less horseplay.
So, tell me, what's your take on all this? What have we missed?
Just one old lady's opinion

~Love, Penny
Have you hugged your Quango lately?
#5
Posted 12 March 2009 - 01:50
I can't tell you how badly we need this thread. Hopefully it can not only gain the attention of the Bovines of Power, but it will remain clean of diatribes and spam that seems to be so rampant lately.
I would like to add a few topics that rather than appearing in the suggestion forum, have been prominent in the General/Feedback section. I believe that they are posted where they belong, but that they also need to be discussed in depth by all of us. First and foremost, this is our game. I know that HCS owns it, and it is a business for them, but unless the general population is reasonably happy, not only those higher levels that wait barely patiently for new content, but the new players that just started 15 minutes ago and have no idea what to do first, HCS had no business. WE are the lifeblood of this business, and are as essential as the electricity that powers the massive servers that house our game.
There are many good ideas in this thread that cover the econonic issues, primarily keeping our veterans interested while making the game enjoyable for the newest so that they will come back to grow some more tomorrow:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78405
Secondly, many suggestions revolve around features that are already available in the FSHelper. I realize that not everybody uses Firefox, and those are the players that would most benefit from implementation of the features that the FSHelper provides for those of us that do use Firefox. HCS implemented many of the features available in Tharnakus's plug in after we asked for them en masse. But we have to be united, and in order to do this, we need to familiarize ourselves with the features that are needed most for the day to day game play. Details and discussion of the FSHelper are found here:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=73245
Now, just a short bit about my favorite topic on Haeshka's list: PvP
I love PvP. It's what I love most about this game, and it saddens me that so many hate it, when it is so much fun, and it is basically how this game is designed to be played. Now, I'm not talking about the arena, or GvG, which also need some serious changes, I'm talking about my style of play, hit and run, dancing on the bounty board, stealing your gold PvP.
One of the best topics that discusses some realistic and logical changes to PvP can be found here:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=58371
There are many others, but this one is no nonsense, and one of the most popular solutions by far. It is also one of the most widely discussed.
I, too, like Haeshka, hope that we can make this thread a hotbead of positive input, so that we can clearly state to HCS what we need and what we want with a minimum of rhetoric and even less horseplay.
So, tell me, what's your take on all this? What have we missed?
Sadly, although this thread is very well done, the players who need to read it the most, are the ones who are least likely to use it.
Edit: Also, making the search button more visible and avaliable to new players might be a good idea.
Did you know that there are likely over 2000 rouge black holes in our galaxy alone. Each of them can reach very high speeds, even in space terms, are each capable of destroying anything in their path, and are invisible. Well, goodnight!
#6
Posted 12 March 2009 - 18:14
Just one old lady's opinion

~Love, Penny
Have you hugged your Quango lately?
#7
Posted 12 March 2009 - 19:57
DV makes some good points. The forum itself needs some tweaks. I'm interested in hearing what the cows have to say here. Not to mention some of you leveling gods out there. Chime in, won't you?
forum tinkering:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=64947
Also, you might want to add getting beginning players more educated about the game itself to the list so they don't all quit at level 5 or lower.
Did you know that there are likely over 2000 rouge black holes in our galaxy alone. Each of them can reach very high speeds, even in space terms, are each capable of destroying anything in their path, and are invisible. Well, goodnight!
#8
Posted 12 March 2009 - 20:59
DV makes some good points. The forum itself needs some tweaks. I'm interested in hearing what the cows have to say here. Not to mention some of you leveling gods out there. Chime in, won't you?
True i rarelly see Cows in there :S, hope they read this firstly :shock:
#9
fs_altare
Posted 12 March 2009 - 21:01
The title sais it all, I believe this would be awesome! GvG itself could use some improvements, maybe this could compeltely overtake GvG and make the whole Guild vs. Guild concept better.
The tournaments would follow a bracket style. Guilds could enter a tournament the same way they enter PvP tournaments, by depositing an amount of gold, this time from the guild bank.
A randomizer would place guilds in brackets, if you don't know what a bracket is watch some sports. In the first round, your guild wins, you go to the next round.
The tournaments would have 2, 4, 8 or eight rounds each round lasting 12/24 hours. The amount of participants could also be either 2, 4 or 8.
If the reward is four gold, it may be divided between the participants or given to each individual. (Debateable) GvG max and min attack levels (25) will be implied as well as max hits (50)
Stamina WILL be used in these tournaments, so do to this I recommend either better prizes or maybe more participants so each member doesn't have to use 100+ stam.
Guild medals could also be an option with this. I've been wanting that for a while. My guild, as well as many others is very in-depth in GvG, this could make it all better...or worse. What do you think?
#10
fs_haeshka
Posted 12 March 2009 - 21:55
"Repair your buddy's gear when in GvG/PvP"
http://forum.fallens...4&highlight=gvg
"Making a Guild versus Guild (GvG) Arena"
http://forum.fallens...8&highlight=gvg
http://forum.fallens...1&highlight=gvg
"Official Guild Conflict Feedback"
http://forum.fallens...7&highlight=gvg
"Revamping the old Reputation Point (RP) system"
http://forum.fallens...6&highlight=gvg
Some notes to summarize --
There definitely needs to be a point in doing GvG other than "feel-good factor" for 'kicking another guilds' butt.
Reputation points were probably neato when buffs maybe stopped at level 125. But, it's useless right now.
What are everyone's thoughts on the idea of a system where you initiate the conflict.. but it MUST begin at least a set number of hours AFTER you hit the 'Initiate' button?
--- my thought behind this is that a popular tactic in GvG is for one guild that wants to be aggressive... to wait until the majority of the opposing guild's members were offline, then gear up to EXACTLY what is needed... then initiate.. and win the conflict outright without the otherside even having had the opportunity to suit up correctly. (Yes, in theory everyone should have a defensive set.. but, they don't).
Any additional thoughts to the above?
#11
fs_deciever11
Posted 13 March 2009 - 00:50
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=78404
Show CA bonus for attack and Defense in profile:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=77853
#12
fs_deciever11
Posted 13 March 2009 - 01:04
Find player page update:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=75999
TWIST ON PVP SYSTEM:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=58371
#13
Posted 13 March 2009 - 02:03
some great suggestions from DA:
Find player page update:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=75999
TWIST ON PVP SYSTEM:
http://forum.fallens...pic.php?t=58371
i dream of these suggestions being in the game. i really think they would make this game ALOT better. PvP activity would rise immensely and it wouldnt be a bad thing to those getting attacked because no experience/gold loss is going down just exchanging of PvP Rating (if they are using 10 stamina) the PvP ladder would actually mean something. those who have high PvP Rating will have to be well guarded if they wish to keep it. buff sellers will be making a killing and i think we would all have a lil bit more fun with the game. we could level and in our spare time, we could PvP for FUN. PvP wouldnt have all the negativity surrounding it. yet you could still 100 stamina hit for gold or just 11 stam hit if you want a ride on the bounty board ;P
when i look for new MMORPGs to play, i make sure it has PvP. if it doesnt, i wont play it. i wish PvP in this game was more 'casual' and fun for everyone, not just those who wish to thieve and war.
#14
fs_haeshka
Posted 13 March 2009 - 02:06
would you be willing to outline/detail some of your thoughts on HOW to implement in THIS thread, though.?-- I see what you did with the 'twist' thread... however, how do think this would affect the game-overall?
Would there be more stamina burned into PvP?, and with the stress being on ABOVE 10 stamina hits (for the sake of causing XP loss) [which to me is why a lot of folks PvP.. to hurt others for pissing them off -- which is fine] .. how does this affect the tendency of XP loss? Also, what are your thoughts the fact that XP loss is so scaled right now.. as in.. when I strike a level 100 it doesn't knock out nearly the XP that the level 90 could take.
#15
Posted 13 March 2009 - 02:26
if you are the same level or below the target, you take experience. once you get one level above the target, you wont take experience from them.
so if i wanted to attack the player who is attacking me and is a lower level, therefor taking my experinece, i should still be able to take experience from him.
this system is too abusable. its really easy at high levels to take levels by yourself thru regular PvP. all it takes is a long day of 100 stamina hits on your target. then the target can bounty you back and take up to 5 levels from you.(remember that exp loss only happens if you are the same/below level as the target) so now i loss more levels, yet i can still continue to attack the target and take experience. the target cant attack you back and have the same outcome. they have to rely on the bounty and if you dont have a big guild, the outcome is depressing. large FSP rewards dont do anything at high levels. everyone is too afraid to PvP because of losing levels so you will get one bounty hunter on the fsp bounty and that will be that. then the attacker can still attack you and most likely take more experience from you then the bounty will do to him. i think thats very unfair. if you can take my experience, i should also be able to take yours. that would be the fair way of going about it.
i think the Twist of PvP would bring more activity to PvP from casual/non-pvpers. it would open up another level of playing this game. right now, its difficult to level up efficiently and pvp(with having fun at it) with this 10 stamina twist, i could be an active PvPer, competing on the PvP ladder AND be leveling on my full stamina days with NO fear of losing experience.
i did a PvP experiment where i attacked those under my level(so i didnt take experience) i would give their gold lost plus some back. i got more negative comments, threats and bounties then attacks back onto me(i gave the players i attacked a chance to hit me back for their pvp rating and i wouldnt bounty. i risked losing experience from their attack back) i was really bummed out with my results. the only fun part about that was when i was online during the bounty and the revenge hits
have you ever gone back and forth with another player PvPing each other with having the honor system of not putting up a bounty? tis very fun. this would be the norm if DA's PvP Twist was put into play
I dont think ALL PvP should result in experience loss. be it on the attacker or target. either way in this game, if you PvP you WILL lose experience. i dont find that inviting. it would be cool to get more of the fallensword community involved with this part of the game. PvP could be a great part of this game. all it needs is a lil twist
PvP is a great way to learn how stats, buffs, and items work. PvP can be a great learning tool yet it is rarely used because of fear
#16
fs_nexilon
Posted 13 March 2009 - 04:50
Making quests more desirable is also a nice direction to have for the game. Although, it appears that HCS have forgotten something very important on the way. It wouldn't make any sense not to implement both suggestions described here.
I also remember someone suggesting somewhere that the fee for joining arena tournaments should be variable and calculated similarly to the number of tickets required to accept bounties on bounty board, that is, according to difference in level of player and that particular tournament. Joining lower level tournaments would then cost more than joining those in your level range, making it a bit more likely for certain players to participate. It might have some potential.
#17
Posted 13 March 2009 - 23:08
Just one old lady's opinion

~Love, Penny
Have you hugged your Quango lately?
#18
Posted 13 March 2009 - 23:10
Glad you pointed those out, Nex.. I had forgotten all about those ideas
This is the thing everyone forgot those stuff because of the number of post there the post are lost going trought page one to 2-3-4 and then you forget them , since most of people chek first page no more :S.
#19
Posted 14 March 2009 - 12:38
Glad you pointed those out, Nex.. I had forgotten all about those ideas
This is the thing everyone forgot those stuff because of the number of post there the post are lost going trought page one to 2-3-4 and then you forget them , since most of people chek first page no more :S.
That's the reason that Haeshka made this thread, so that we can discuss threads that we think are important enough to gain the attention of the cows in one central location. Not necessarily the issues of those threads, beyond a brief description and the reason we think they are important, but definitely putting them in one place is a good idea. And hopefully the forum staff will see the merit in stickying this thread, as it does serve a vital purpose for this forum.
Just one old lady's opinion

~Love, Penny
Have you hugged your Quango lately?
#20
fs_altare
Posted 14 March 2009 - 17:06
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