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#41 Prezze

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 17:19

Prezze if you got 1300 kills, why not just find 1 or 2 more people able to get 1000+ kills and just win the Titan the normal way?



This is not a suggestion so my guild can win a titan VT, it are some idea's I had when I was bored trying to get multiple guilds involved in titan hunting instead of 1-3 guilds

(I don't like some either, however I'm trying to bring idea's up. Instead of just shooting down suggestions like some people only do.)

#42 Prezze

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 17:22

Why not Spawn multiple Titans at the same time?


1) titans are killed even faster, increasing the fact of having to be online when the titan spawns.

2) would mean the more members hunting it, the better the odds are you are getting the majority of kills

3) this could be an idea if HCS first can come up with something so that more guilds would even bother going after titans

#43 Prezze

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 17:31

(i start to sound repetitive in Titan related threads *sigh*)



T.A select few like us and Celtic warriors, among others, have failed in many hunts, getting nothing for using our stamina, he improve ourselves however and get rewarded for our determination..

Its not a game of "the bigger, the better" then, it is a game of "who can endure more losses before finding a way to win". Initially i thought myself that numbers are what matters, but thats not competely accurate..Ability of the hunters counts just as much.

Regarding 2th-5th rewards, guild RP cant be the answer because solo players can reach those ranks..perhaps recipes and components to invent stuff, or some potions could be the answer..


Hmmm saying that you guys failed in many hunts? You guys have the best ratio in participating/winning so I wouldn't say you failed alot :).

I do know from experience that not only numbers matter. From experience I know that I beat 3-4 people on a quite large area for myself while they were just covering a smaller area.

But it is still a fact that an experienced hunter can't make it from a guild that has alot of people in the map if they are organised.

#44 MaximusGR

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 19:46

(i start to sound repetitive in Titan related threads *sigh*)



T.A select few like us and Celtic warriors, among others, have failed in many hunts, getting nothing for using our stamina, he improve ourselves however and get rewarded for our determination..

Its not a game of "the bigger, the better" then, it is a game of "who can endure more losses before finding a way to win". Initially i thought myself that numbers are what matters, but thats not competely accurate..Ability of the hunters counts just as much.

Regarding 2th-5th rewards, guild RP cant be the answer because solo players can reach those ranks..perhaps recipes and components to invent stuff, or some potions could be the answer..


sorry but this is just disingenuous on your part. FFS hasn't failed in "many hunts" in any real way.

however I agree that limiting isn't going to provide an answer, though I far prefer prezzes attempt to look at it over those who are happy the way it is now (usually because they benefit from it of course). He at least recognizes there is a problem and is viewing it from a desire to make it better.

I also agree that rewards for 2-5th could be an answer but that it cannot be RP or some such lame thing. Perhaps points toward a titan item? Like 3 second places = an item?

As for what kind of a game titan hunting is, atm it appears to be a bigger the better game, with a secondary nature that individual skill and amount of stamina available to use matters when 2 large guilds both pursue the same titan.



Mikky it depends at what exactly someone sees as a problem..Its true we have won a very good percentage of the (legitimate) hunts, mainly for 3 reasons :

a) We are willing to spend 2-5 hours each hunting and buffing

B) We are willing to take our chances with our stamina spent in order to win a good prize

c) We are a guild large enough and active enough that has people online to hunt whenever a Titan spawns.

It is very common lately to find ourselves in empty maps with only a guild or two participating seriously, mainly Celtic Warriors, Evolutions and Czech Knights...Ask yourselves if you have the a,b,c things above and then come to the forum to suggest system alterations to your liking..Most of those complaining after all are too lazy, too greedy or in half-dead guilds, thats why Titan threads seem pointless and amusing to those that hunt rather than talk about it.

Thank you for the input and the brainstorming Prezze but the focus should be in those that dont hunt rather than those that are winning/competing..

#45 mikkyld

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 22:24

(i start to sound repetitive in Titan related threads *sigh*)



T.A select few like us and Celtic warriors, among others, have failed in many hunts, getting nothing for using our stamina, he improve ourselves however and get rewarded for our determination..

Its not a game of "the bigger, the better" then, it is a game of "who can endure more losses before finding a way to win". Initially i thought myself that numbers are what matters, but thats not competely accurate..Ability of the hunters counts just as much.

Regarding 2th-5th rewards, guild RP cant be the answer because solo players can reach those ranks..perhaps recipes and components to invent stuff, or some potions could be the answer..


sorry but this is just disingenuous on your part. FFS hasn't failed in "many hunts" in any real way.

however I agree that limiting isn't going to provide an answer, though I far prefer prezzes attempt to look at it over those who are happy the way it is now (usually because they benefit from it of course). He at least recognizes there is a problem and is viewing it from a desire to make it better.

I also agree that rewards for 2-5th could be an answer but that it cannot be RP or some such lame thing. Perhaps points toward a titan item? Like 3 second places = an item?

As for what kind of a game titan hunting is, atm it appears to be a bigger the better game, with a secondary nature that individual skill and amount of stamina available to use matters when 2 large guilds both pursue the same titan.



Mikky it depends at what exactly someone sees as a problem..Its true we have won a very good percentage of the (legitimate) hunts, mainly for 3 reasons :

a) We are willing to spend 2-5 hours each hunting and buffing

B) We are willing to take our chances with our stamina spent in order to win a good prize

c) We are a guild large enough and active enough that has people online to hunt whenever a Titan spawns.

It is very common lately to find ourselves in empty maps with only a guild or two participating seriously, mainly Celtic Warriors, Evolutions and Czech Knights...Ask yourselves if you have the a,b,c things above and then come to the forum to suggest system alterations to your liking..Most of those complaining after all are too lazy, too greedy or in half-dead guilds, thats why Titan threads seem pointless and amusing to those that hunt rather than talk about it.

Thank you for the input and the brainstorming Prezze but the focus should be in those that dont hunt rather than those that are winning/competing..


It does take all of those things - skill, numbers and stamina (your abc) - to successfully hunt a titan. For the higher leveled titans - the ones where FFS has the highest ratio of success, it also takes those things in high enough level players to get to the titan.

So I suspect FFS would still get the large majority of titans even if some adjustments were made, because they already have the numbers and the plans etc.

That doesn't mean some change isn't necessary either and rather than whining about who is winning, prezze went out and gave it a shot and found out he couldn't do it alone no matter how skilled and so he suggested a fix or 3.

Most of the people responding to him were either just in favor of any change to stop FFS from getting them all or just wanting it to stay the way it is.

Havent seen much real analysis from the latter, just kneejerk reaction to "Yet another titan thread." Which I think you as much as admitted when first posting here.


As I said, I prefer Prezze's approach to the others I have seen; at least he is trying.

#46 MaximusGR

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 22:44

As I said, I prefer Prezze's approach to the others I have seen; at least he is trying.


I agree to that..Prezze tried to Titan hunt and based on his experience posted his thoughts...There are other threads too where we can find some nice ideas of tweaking..but they are burried in posts of armchair warriors that hope for a change stopping us and suiting them..

Anyway, BG has the feedback he needs and we are all expecting to see the goodies that will be given to the ranked guilds..Lets see how the system works then and be sure there will be even more discussion regardless of who dominates!

#47 fs_coyotik

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 07:56

What about restricting the titans (individually) by levels from below and from above? I'm sure that if there was an Ogalith hunt where kill from players level 200+ would not count, it would open the titan to many new guilds.

#48 MaximusGR

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 08:23

RAZORS EDGE is another example to follow..Small guild, not among the top, they wanted to Titan hunt, they put together a good group of hunters and they are fighting very well when they come in force..they have even won once!

Without restrictions, complaining, blaming the system, envying successess..

If they can do it, every guild can

#49 Prezze

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 15:09


As I said, I prefer Prezze's approach to the others I have seen; at least he is trying.


I agree to that..Prezze tried to Titan hunt and based on his experience posted his thoughts...There are other threads too where we can find some nice ideas of tweaking..but they are burried in posts of armchair warriors that hope for a change stopping us and suiting them..

Anyway, BG has the feedback he needs and we are all expecting to see the goodies that will be given to the ranked guilds..Lets see how the system works then and be sure there will be even more discussion regardless of who dominates!


Do note that this is not an attempt to stop you guys from winning. I'm merely trying to find out things what would try and get guilds that don't bother now to compete.

So basicly trying to get some changes, which make people think we now have a chance to even win.

I can believe for some people it might be frustrating it they tried their best multiple times and just ending up waisting huge amounts stamina.

With my attempt back then I knew we wouldn't win a titan hunt, i was plainly bored and had 10k stamina to spend. But the other members saw what amount i did get and some became even interested and know we can compete against you guys if we are able to get people online at the time of the titan appearing. Which seems the biggest disadvantage our guild has.

The biggest thing that differs from most guilds and the guilds that won more then one titan so far. Is the fact that they can mobilise more members to participate in a hunt, due to the fact they already now that the guild is able to win.

Also a side idea on the long awaited rewards for runner ups.

I haven't read any about it but since you are following titan hunting threads really well. I'll give my thoughts and idea's here as well about it.

1) The winner of the titan still gets the drop like it is now

2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.

Only problem I have for this if a pointsystem would be the way to go, since if alot of guilds start participating it can become hard to get 5th place. Which could result in that it takes ages to get 100 points to exchange for an item. However I do believe that it can't be made to easy to get an item either.

Edit
----
At new levels on the titanstructure which show how many points for which titan the guild has got

#50 fs_axxisis

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 15:21


As I said, I prefer Prezze's approach to the others I have seen; at least he is trying.


1) The winner of the titan still gets the drop like it is now

2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.

Only problem I have for this if a pointsystem would be the way to go, since if alot of guilds start participating it can become hard to get 5th place. Which could result in that it takes ages to get 100 points to exchange for an item. However I do believe that it can't be made to easy to get an item either.

Edit
----
At new levels on the titanstructure which show how many points for which titan the guild has got

i like that idea more

#51 MaximusGR

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 17:09

I'll give my thoughts and idea's here as well about it.

1) The winner of the titan still gets the drop like it is now

2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.


Your suggestion is more or less what HCS has in plans to do, though we dont know what kind of points will be awarded..Anyway, my thoughts :

There should be different point amounts for every Titan, for example #2 in Ogalith gets 15 points, #2 in Skaldir gets 30 points and #2 in Fuvayu gets 50 points. That reflects more or less the effort made to hunt each Titan.

As for the rewards, its better to be the same kind of points regardless of Titans, it should simplify the "Point-shop" as well.

Rewards can be the Epic drops themselves, bought with an amount of points, for example 150 points for Ogalith Grasp, 250 points for Skaldir boots and 400 points for Fuvayu stone.

There could also be lesser Epic items (similar to the Inferno Hammer or Steamwork cuirass) with less points required to purchase them.



P.S. Another reason to never consider limiting player numbers in Titans is that the less players the more the walking it requires (which means large amounts of available stam necessary). We are limiting hunter numbers ourselves anyway, otherwise hunting cannot be profitable and efficient :)

#52 fs_coyotik

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 17:30

2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.


Or another solution - how about new titan items for the runner-ups? Less powerful than the main one, for different slots, perhaps 2nd and 3rd place giving two parts of a set...

With some extra coding, it would even be possible to implement partial set bonuses (so, having 2 ogalith items would give less extra than 4 or 5).

The possibilities are plentiful - the rewards even don't have to be titan items when it comes to it, giving RPs would be enough...

#53 SgtDrunkie

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 15:09

I don't see the titan hunt as a guild event I view it as an FFS event. And the one small guild that got a kill over FFS, it was probably done in the middle of the night when most FFS members were recharging their stam...err...I mean sleeping.

Either make it to where its a fair fight regardless of the size of the guild or just get rid of it all together. Having FFS monopolizing the titans is just rediculous.


Weve beat them in a fight a few times when they were online. We lost a few too when they had to call in reinforcements but, meh, win some loose some :)

FFS are not invinceable, noone is. If you take a chance you might get lucky. You ant gonna win the lotto without buying a ticket.

#54 fs_coyotik

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 15:31

Either make it to where its a fair fight regardless of the size of the guild or just get rid of it all together. Having FFS monopolizing the titans is just rediculous.


Oh yeah, and it's horrible how TEW monopolize the top1 guild position on the ladder, innit?

Seriously, mate, you do NOT need a big guild and you can NOT monopolize the titans. We've beaten FFS a few times, others have done it, too, and it never was the whole guild, it was maybe a dozen players.

What you need is a good team of folks who have the time and the skills and know how, some organizational talent and that's about it. Of course, big guilds have the advantage that it's easier for them to have 10 good hunters online most of the day, but it's the same as big guilds having easier life coz the upkeep per member is lower, or that they can put together bigger groups to hunt SEs and stuff.

If there's something that is monopolizing the titans to FFS, apart from them being good at it, it's the fear or pessimism of others, who are not willing to put up a good fight just because they assume upfront that FFS is going to win anyway.

#55 Prezze

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 19:09

I'll give my thoughts and idea's here as well about it.

1) The winner of the titan still gets the drop like it is now

2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.


Your suggestion is more or less what HCS has in plans to do, though we dont know what kind of points will be awarded..Anyway, my thoughts :

There should be different point amounts for every Titan, for example #2 in Ogalith gets 15 points, #2 in Skaldir gets 30 points and #2 in Fuvayu gets 50 points. That reflects more or less the effort made to hunt each Titan.

As for the rewards, its better to be the same kind of points regardless of Titans, it should simplify the "Point-shop" as well.

Rewards can be the Epic drops themselves, bought with an amount of points, for example 150 points for Ogalith Grasp, 250 points for Skaldir boots and 400 points for Fuvayu stone.

There could also be lesser Epic items (similar to the Inferno Hammer or Steamwork cuirass) with less points required to purchase them.



P.S. Another reason to never consider limiting player numbers in Titans is that the less players the more the walking it requires (which means large amounts of available stam necessary). We are limiting hunter numbers ourselves anyway, otherwise hunting cannot be profitable and efficient :)


Out of experience I know it requires alot of walking with less players, i've spent 1 hour solo on titan hunting myself, managed to get a big load of kills. But drained about 7k stamina on the hunt. Afterwards others joined in to help the killing.

The suggestion of limiting the amount of players now and then, I made was trying to find a solution for guilds who don't have 10 players online at once. (The amount of hp on a titan should be lowered then as well, not to make it in a who has the most stamina to burn event)

#56 Prezze

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 19:10


2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.


Or another solution - how about new titan items for the runner-ups? Less powerful than the main one, for different slots, perhaps 2nd and 3rd place giving two parts of a set...

With some extra coding, it would even be possible to implement partial set bonuses (so, having 2 ogalith items would give less extra than 4 or 5).

The possibilities are plentiful - the rewards even don't have to be titan items when it comes to it, giving RPs would be enough...


I like the idea of new less powerfull titan items and the partial set bonuses as well.

However I know that for RP hardly any guild will start competing. Unless they change the RP rewards.

#57 MaximusGR

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 19:20

Guild RP would be a great solution since most guilds into GvG would find it much easier to come to a map and kill titans to get a top rank rather than all the work they do to win a hard GvG conflict.

BUT what if a guildless player ranks among the top 5...

Reducing Titan HP could work, so would increasing Titans per square or squares with Titans at any given time...In other words, make Fuvayu and Skaldir shorter, in order to win them a guild needs 3 and 6 hours of devotion respectively.

#58 fs_coyotik

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 20:07

BUT what if a guildless player ranks among the top 5...


Tough luck. He knew what the rewards available were, nobody forced him to participate.

Reducing Titan HP could work, so would increasing Titans per square or squares with Titans at any given time...In other words, make Fuvayu and Skaldir shorter, in order to win them a guild needs 3 and 6 hours of devotion respectively.


Well, it's supposed to be tough, or not? I participated in one hunt only, we won, it was tough, my wife was not at all happy about me being glued to the box nonstop for 3 hours, but it was worth it at that time. No longer interests me, but we still got enough guildies who are not married yet :).

There's also an interesting possibility of getting item fragments from the titan... I.e. every titan would drop a reward like now, but also for every kill (or a random, FI-dependant drop), a titan resource could drop, titan fragment... extracting could provide small parts that could be brewed together into larger parts and those still into the final item - and there could be completely new equipment, lesser titan sets, less powerful than the current items, but worth the effort.

If there's, say, 10000 titan HP per day, dropping i.e. 1000 fragments a day with conversion rate of 10 fragments -> 1 part, 10 parts -> 1 item, 4 items -> 1 set, that would boil down to 2.5 sets per day (easily regulated by lower inventing success).

Such a system would mean that even a solo player or a small guild would be able to collect pieces of otherwise unobtainable equipment - this reward could go for all participants, not just top5.

#59 Abdullah89

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 22:08

I have commented in another topic my opinion about limiting Titan hunting..

Nothing is solved my making big organised guilds fight with hands tied behind their back..


lols...BIG ORAGNISED guilds shouldn't have a problem fighting with there hands tide behind there backs.....they should enjoy the new challange lols.......ignore my comment...just had to say something lmao.

#60 doa4life

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 22:22


2) Place 2-5 get points according to their place.
For instance a system of
2nd place 50points
3rd place 40 points
4th place 20 points
5th place 10 points

3) Ogalith titan gives ogalithpoints, skaldir gives skaldir points, fuvayu gives fuvayu points

4) add a new store in one of the beginning area's, where you can trade 100 ogalith titanpoints for an ogalith item. Same with the other titanpoints.


Or another solution - how about new titan items for the runner-ups? Less powerful than the main one, for different slots, perhaps 2nd and 3rd place giving two parts of a set...

With some extra coding, it would even be possible to implement partial set bonuses (so, having 2 ogalith items would give less extra than 4 or 5).

The possibilities are plentiful - the rewards even don't have to be titan items when it comes to it, giving RPs would be enough...


I like the idea of new less powerfull titan items and the partial set bonuses as well.

However I know that for RP hardly any guild will start competing. Unless they change the RP rewards.

I would have to disagree with the lesser items. People need the incentive to at least try and finish 2nd-5th anymore, making them finish 2nd - 5th to try to earn some points to buy lesser items??? I dont think that will be too successful.


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