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GvG and PvP Prestige Update!


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#1 FORN

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 17:07

Hi all,
As you all know we have been going over all the ideas on how to fix GvG and PvP Prestige.
So tomorrow we will be taking all the ideas we like and after deciding exactly what will work and what wont in both systems and then the team will begin working on fixing the problems and re-vamping both Gvg and the PvP Prestige system for the better :D

We will give more feedback tomorrow on what we have come up with.

#2 Roan

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 17:10

At last!
Thanks! And yes present us what u wanna do before implenting it :)

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#3 MaximusGR

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 17:27

Hi all,
As you all know we have been going over all the ideas on how to fix GvG and PvP Prestige.
So tomorrow we will be taking all the ideas we like and after deciding exactly what will work and what wont in both systems and then the team will begin working on fixing the problems and re-vamping both Gvg and the PvP Prestige system for the better :D

We will give more feedback tomorrow on what we have come up with.


Be careful with the highlighted part, you -meaning the HCS team in general- didnt get it right when Prestige was introduced and after guild RP enabled guilds to have access to Epics :lol:

There are so many ways to abuse every feature in this game, and there are always players eager to do so, so cover up as many holes as possible in the changes you ll introduce. Forum is full of suggestions about them.

#4 fs_dreptile

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 17:30

its been suggested in another thread , but could you add a report button to the fsbox or shout box ..the whole free rp is getting annoying and eliminates the purpose of gvg ( to drain out stamina and gold from the game)

basically , the player's message would get reported and logged and send to the hcs team ..like a reported avatar.

Its sad how instead of playing the game , players try to find other means to gain 'unfair' advantages

#5 levy1977

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 17:59

Guild Name GvG Rating
1st [Ryouzanpaku Alliance] Ryouzanpaku Alliance 1,693
2nd [Stronghold] Stronghold 1,631
3rd [Epic] Epic 1,552
4th [Warrior Kings] Warrior Kings 1,550
5th [Resurrection] Resurrection 1,544

Some consideration should be given to lowering the Skill levels of people that delevel themselves. Stronghold and Epic both have Guild founders that have level 175 buffs for characters that are much lower levels. Although Resurrection was a good gvg guild before and might possibly be in the Top 5 now anyways, they enjoyed a sharp rise in their gvg when they had a player that deleveled himself as well.



We're considering making part of the skill cast requirement be that your current level is valid for the skill you are trying to cast.


Skill points should be treated as a bank account.. you level up and earn then, you should be able to use them. The Price paid for deleveling, is a locked in set of skills, that cant be reset.. thats the current system.. I have crappy buffs that dont help GvG.. but cant reset because of it. thats my fault. But to completely reset the skills on all players who worked hard to earn them, is the same thing as saying, "we no longer like the way your playing, so we would like to terminate your fun, have a nice day"...

It does not take much to sit and study the mechanics of the game, and though my skills are NOT the reason I win GvGs, its part of a comfort I deserve to have. Was it not fair enough to restrict me from the reserve stamina? or restrict me from the benefit from relic upgrades? End of content was a drag, and not fun at all. relics back then were nothing, not even worth taking, there was no incentive to being at the end of content PvPing people.

You take away the players in this game skill points, you should restore their VL back to the same it was, because what you will do, is kill the players fun. The complaints you see, are from people who have not yet reached end of content and sought out ways to improve themselves, they are complaining because of the system that is in place does not benefit them.

If you remember correctly, I deleveled down to level 120s WAY BEFORE THIS PRESTIGE AND RP REWARDS... I was not exploiting anything, I wanted to simply have fun doing what I love, and thats guild conflicts..
Now that there is a reward to conflicts, others want to destroy the fun.. For all I care, nerf the RP rewards, at least leave the players like myself who deleveled down alone so we can continue to enjoy the fun we came down here to have.

You would think it would be a fun game, not a business to destroy a group of peoples fun. Seems in this game, there are many complaints, insults and finger pointing, but no real suggestions in how to improve the so called flaws. I have given extensive positive feedback from my hard work while doing all areas of the game, in other threads I have made what I feel are great suggestions for improvements that benefit EVERYONE. Yet there is still a witch hunt from a rather large population of players who play this game and are simply never happy.

**NOTE** I initiate 4vs4 CONFLICTS... Since starting my own guild, I have never done a 1vs1, because I believe its Guild vs Guild... I will never start a conflict with the minimum players looking to manipulate the system.. I am only looking for fun conflicts.. there are a few guilds that can attest to the fun of having 4vs4 against me and my guild, the battles are intense and very fun.. RP is a formality while such things are happening. So, take into consideration those guilds like Ryouzanpaku Alliance who taught me how to fight, while doing so while conflicts had no rewards..

Ryouzanpaku Alliance had 200+ wins and the same RP from NEVER using any RP prior to this update, they never went out of there way to build up a stock of RP, they didnt exploit the system! What they did was inspire the community to fight back, and enjoy hard fought battles.
I built my guild to have the same advantages as them, and so, the battles with them are very fun.

To the nay Sayers, you think I cant go to any one of my friends and get the very same buffs I possess? resetting someones skill points is not fixing a system, its slapping players in the face.. though I guard what I earned, I feel that I should say that you lack imagination at fixing things, with no suggestions, but rather taking pleasure in seeing others fall. If indeed I were to lose my skills, I will still be strong, and smart, and know the game mechanics, and be successful, just a bit sad though that developers would listen to complaints and not suggestions. Please reconsider making drastic changes, and listen to the intelligent suggestions in some of those other threads on how to improve Conflicts, there are many players in this game who had wonderful suggestions.

Thanks to all who have supported me in this endeavor, you certainly have made my game play much more fun and challenging.

#6 mikkyld

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:01

Hi all,
As you all know we have been going over all the ideas on how to fix GvG and PvP Prestige.
So tomorrow we will be taking all the ideas we like and after deciding exactly what will work and what wont in both systems and then the team will begin working on fixing the problems and re-vamping both Gvg and the PvP Prestige system for the better :D

We will give more feedback tomorrow on what we have come up with.


Be careful with the highlighted part, you -meaning the HCS team in general- didnt get it right when Prestige was introduced and after guild RP enabled guilds to have access to Epics :lol:

There are so many ways to abuse every feature in this game, and there are always players eager to do so, so cover up as many holes as possible in the changes you ll introduce. Forum is full of suggestions about them.



Ill agree with the sense of your post but not the tone. Which was basically that HCS are incapable and all the suggestion made in the forum are good ones. Neither of those two implications is accurate.

In fact I see no issues with RP generated epics - not even in the (GASP HORROR) ability for guilds to trade GvG attack. After all they can only do so every 5 days and there is nothing that mandates people paying the insane amount of FSP that has created the "I must start a GvG guild" panic. (If you want to point and laugh at incompetence, just look at the 2000/3000/5000 FSPs being asked and paid for epic items. Yes I know people can set what prices they want and others can pay them - it is my opinion that it is foolish to pay the real world equivalent of $250-$750 for an item usable only within an online game.) :)

And there are holes in most every suggestion made on the forum too. There are - as you note - many ways to abuse player interaction. Short of eliminating that interaction (no more PvP or GvG or trade or sales) there is no way to stop all or even most of the holes.

But it would be nice if any changes were discussed first or that, at least, they be kept on a short leash (test group, ability to reset without damaging players or some such).

#7 mikkyld

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:04

its been suggested in another thread , but could you add a report button to the fsbox or shout box ..the whole free rp is getting annoying and eliminates the purpose of gvg ( to drain out stamina and gold from the game)

basically , the player's message would get reported and logged and send to the hcs team ..like a reported avatar.

Its sad how instead of playing the game , players try to find other means to gain 'unfair' advantages


trading GvGs still takes as much stamina and gold and fsp out of the game as a highly contested GvG would do, so your conclusion that the purpose of gvg has been eliminated is incorrect.

Also it isn't really unfair either, since any guild can do the same thing so there is no advantage to be gained.

Perhaps it isn't what you see as fun and most of us may well agree with your view but it doesn't make it wrong, so IMO it doesn't merit reporting really.

#8 fs_gravely

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:05

3 things that desperately need to happen in any GvG / Prestige update:

#1. Guilds should not be able to win conflicts via kicking members. Either a cached memberlist or a guild lock is in order to prevent this. Preferably the former, but the latter at least achieves this goal.

#2. Please insure that the "no hitting players who are more than 7 days inactive" function actually works. As many players including myself have noted, this currently DOES NOT work. I stumbled across it by accident and have had a ticket submitted since that occurred. Screenshots and a full explanation are available if necessary.

#3. STOP PENALIZING THE LEADERS IN BOTH CATEGORIES. Currently, and for the last 20 + levels, I've had over 2000 PvP rating. Honestly, I couldn't give a lick about it. Rating does nothing for me; I bounty hunt consistently and sometimes engage in extracurricular activities off the board - but I have NEVER, EVER traded rating, nor do I intend to. As a result, people who are intent on gaining advantage can easily get 10% Prestige buff without ever putting themselves at risk, while someone like me who doesn't PvP unless it's for real, is LUCKY to get 1%.

The same thing applies for GvG leaders - they pay the highest cost and are the biggest targets; there is NO reason other than pride to stay atop the GvG rankings. At least players in the top of the rating list get a dominance medal - Guilds don't even get that.

P.S. Since we're talking about making it beneficial to be atop the leaderboards, trading must be HEAVILY discouraged. As a result, do the following: #1, don't allow players to take prestige/rating from the same target more than once every 48 hours off the board. #2, make the cooldown timer on conflicts between the same guild 5 days. There's plenty of guilds out there to hit; there's no reason to make trading wins easy.

#9 FORN

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:15

Hi,
We are not incapable and do have our own ideas that we will want to use, but we do also value peoples ideas on the forums and some are pretty good ideas.
We don't put up forum posts for peoples ideas just for the fun of it. We want to see how everyone else would like to play the game.
Before jumping to conclusions, we will be keeping you updated on what we are planning.

#10 Roan

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:16

Forn, hoof told us what he thougth about keeping our buffs when we delevel ourself...
Did u read Levy's post?
What do you think about it, YOURSELF?

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#11 mikkyld

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:16

Guild Name GvG Rating
1st [Ryouzanpaku Alliance] Ryouzanpaku Alliance 1,693
2nd [Stronghold] Stronghold 1,631
3rd [Epic] Epic 1,552
4th [Warrior Kings] Warrior Kings 1,550
5th [Resurrection] Resurrection 1,544

Some consideration should be given to lowering the Skill levels of people that delevel themselves. Stronghold and Epic both have Guild founders that have level 175 buffs for characters that are much lower levels. Although Resurrection was a good gvg guild before and might possibly be in the Top 5 now anyways, they enjoyed a sharp rise in their gvg when they had a player that deleveled himself as well.



We're considering making part of the skill cast requirement be that your current level is valid for the skill you are trying to cast.


Skill points should be treated as a bank account.. you level up and earn then, you should be able to use them. The Price paid for deleveling, is a locked in set of skills, that cant be reset.. thats the current system.. I have crappy buffs that dont help GvG.. but cant reset because of it. thats my fault. But to completely reset the skills on all players who worked hard to earn them, is the same thing as saying, "we no longer like the way your playing, so we would like to terminate your fun, have a nice day"...

It does not take much to sit and study the mechanics of the game, and though my skills are NOT the reason I win GvGs, its part of a comfort I deserve to have. Was it not fair enough to restrict me from the reserve stamina? or restrict me from the benefit from relic upgrades? End of content was a drag, and not fun at all. relics back then were nothing, not even worth taking, there was no incentive to being at the end of content PvPing people.

You take away the players in this game skill points, you should restore their VL back to the same it was, because what you will do, is kill the players fun. The complaints you see, are from people who have not yet reached end of content and sought out ways to improve themselves, they are complaining because of the system that is in place does not benefit them.

If you remember correctly, I deleveled down to level 120s WAY BEFORE THIS PRESTIGE AND RP REWARDS... I was not exploiting anything, I wanted to simply have fun doing what I love, and thats guild conflicts..
Now that there is a reward to conflicts, others want to destroy the fun.. For all I care, nerf the RP rewards, at least leave the players like myself who deleveled down alone so we can continue to enjoy the fun we came down here to have.

You would think it would be a fun game, not a business to destroy a group of peoples fun. Seems in this game, there are many complaints, insults and finger pointing, but no real suggestions in how to improve the so called flaws. I have given extensive positive feedback from my hard work while doing all areas of the game, in other threads I have made what I feel are great suggestions for improvements that benefit EVERYONE. Yet there is still a witch hunt from a rather large population of players who play this game and are simply never happy.

**NOTE** I initiate 4vs4 CONFLICTS... Since starting my own guild, I have never done a 1vs1, because I believe its Guild vs Guild... I will never start a conflict with the minimum players looking to manipulate the system.. I am only looking for fun conflicts.. there are a few guilds that can attest to the fun of having 4vs4 against me and my guild, the battles are intense and very fun.. RP is a formality while such things are happening. So, take into consideration those guilds like Ryouzanpaku Alliance who taught me how to fight, while doing so while conflicts had no rewards..

Ryouzanpaku Alliance had 200+ wins and the same RP from NEVER using any RP prior to this update, they never went out of there way to build up a stock of RP, they didnt exploit the system! What they did was inspire the community to fight back, and enjoy hard fought battles.
I built my guild to have the same advantages as them, and so, the battles with them are very fun.

To the nay Sayers, you think I cant go to any one of my friends and get the very same buffs I possess? resetting someones skill points is not fixing a system, its slapping players in the face.. though I guard what I earned, I feel that I should say that you lack imagination at fixing things, with no suggestions, but rather taking pleasure in seeing others fall. If indeed I were to lose my skills, I will still be strong, and smart, and know the game mechanics, and be successful, just a bit sad though that developers would listen to complaints and not suggestions. Please reconsider making drastic changes, and listen to the intelligent suggestions in some of those other threads on how to improve Conflicts, there are many players in this game who had wonderful suggestions.

Thats to all who have supported me in this endeavor, you certainly have made my game play much more fun and challenging.



There is a lot more here than a discussion of whether skills should be taken away with levels, starting with some rancor. I don't intend to add to that piece of the pie but it seems clear to me that the buffs are not the reason for the success in GvG - after all they can be acquired elsewhere when needed - so I see no need to take them away.

I agree with the thrust of levy's statement that players acquire skills as they progress through the game and use those points to get buffs. That is the way the game plays out and currently the game can also be played to get oneself deleveled for the real advantage in GvG which is the means to hit a lot more targets in shorter time making the GvG process more efficient. It isn't the buffs that do that, even if they made good choices from a GvG perspective on the way up. It is the level.

If players who went down by choice were allowed to keep their level up points that would be unfair, but my understanding is that they do not.

If you want to stop the deleveling, it seems that keeping the highest level as their "true" rank for which pvP and GvG attacks are measured would be the best approach. Short of that I see no point for arbitrary rules on which buffs can be used.

#12 fs_tlalocssr

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:20

trading GvGs still takes as much stamina and gold and fsp out of the game as a highly contested GvG would do, so your conclusion that the purpose of gvg has been eliminated is incorrect.


Not true it takes a whole lot more stamina and fsp if you defend it properly. You have to have the right gear not only for attacking but for defending. Not to mention the right buffs to defend and attack. If you trade then you just use your stam to attack the 50 then that is it. It isn't really fair for those of us who try to defend the guild when others just exploit the system.

#13 Mister Doom

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:22

There is a lot more here than a discussion of whether skills should be taken away with levels, starting with some rancor. I don't intend to add to that piece of the pie but it seems clear to me that the buffs are not the reason for the success in GvG - after all they can be acquired elsewhere when needed - so I see no need to take them away.

I agree with the thrust of levy's statement that players acquire skills as they progress through the game and use those points to get buffs. That is the way the game plays out and currently the game can also be played to get oneself deleveled for the real advantage in GvG which is the means to hit a lot more targets in shorter time making the GvG process more efficient. It isn't the buffs that do that, even if they made good choices from a GvG perspective on the way up. It is the level.

If players who went down by choice were allowed to keep their level up points that would be unfair, but my understanding is that they do not.

If you want to stop the deleveling, it seems that keeping the highest level as their "true" rank for which pvP and GvG attacks are measured would be the best approach. Short of that I see no point for arbitrary rules on which buffs can be used.


Thats a big assumption, what about newer players that don't have many resources, aren't in a guild with higher level player or simply don't have any friends with these buffs? No I think the ability to cast these skills outside the level range that they were initially intended for is quite a big advantage. I'm not even thinking about GvG or RP farming, this is a pure gameplay balance issue as far as I'm concerned..

#14 fs_gravely

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:22



trading GvGs still takes as much stamina and gold and fsp out of the game as a highly contested GvG would do, so your conclusion that the purpose of gvg has been eliminated is incorrect.


Not true it takes a whole lot more stamina and fsp if you defend it properly. You have to have the right gear not only for attacking but for defending. Not to mention the right buffs to defend and attack. If you trade then you just use your stam to attack the 50 then that is it. It isn't really fair for those of us who try to defend the guild when others just exploit the system.


+1, if the defending guild spends stamina on the defense and the attacker has to use buffs, that's easily four to five times the amount of stamina invested than just your general 50-0.

#15 Bleltch

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:22

Hi all,
As you all know we have been going over all the ideas on how to fix GvG and PvP Prestige.
So tomorrow we will be taking all the ideas we like and after deciding exactly what will work and what wont in both systems and then the team will begin working on fixing the problems and re-vamping both Gvg and the PvP Prestige system for the better :D

Are you looking into fixing the pvp point system also? It's been overlooked for so long now. :cry:

#16 fs_dreptile

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:42

its been suggested in another thread , but could you add a report button to the fsbox or shout box ..the whole free rp is getting annoying and eliminates the purpose of gvg ( to drain out stamina and gold from the game)

basically , the player's message would get reported and logged and send to the hcs team ..like a reported avatar.

Its sad how instead of playing the game , players try to find other means to gain 'unfair' advantages


trading GvGs still takes as much stamina and gold and fsp out of the game as a highly contested GvG would do, so your conclusion that the purpose of gvg has been eliminated is incorrect.

Also it isn't really unfair either, since any guild can do the same thing so there is no advantage to be gained.

Perhaps it isn't what you see as fun and most of us may well agree with your view but it doesn't make it wrong, so IMO it doesn't merit reporting really.



when selling gvg wins , only 1 guild needs to launch attacks ..if the other guild doesnt attack back , only half of the stamina would be drained out. Another thing is it makes rp easy to gain , induces players to create multis and will eventually lead to more epic items flooding the market thus leading to lower $ for hcs which in turn leaves us with less updates.

The fact that it induces multis to be created , should be enough of a reason to put this annoyance at bay

#17 levy1977

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:44

See, its amazing that there is an upgrade to buy LEVEL UP points reset, that increases EVERY TIME you use it.. Players are complaining about those who deleveled, but fail to realize that HCS made it so we could, by charging us a non-fixed amount of fsp to do it.. My current level up points reset would cost me 275 fsp.. How is that fair they gave us the right to do as we did, charging us to do it, then telling us, "opps, we made a mistake.. "

its not a flaw, the level up points reset is there for all players to use.

I was on the BB and asking for help while I was being deleveled.. and was helped by HCS in the process.

10:15 18/Sep/2009 Anakiro has placed a bounty on your head to avenge your attack on them! Any player which accepts this bounty will be able to attack you (regardless of level) and you will suffer 2x experience loss from anyone undertaking the bounty, until the bounty is completed. Note also that anyone attacking you for the bounty reward will be available for you to place a bounty on them!

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qlxqw8.jpg



Anakiro made it very clear she would support me in my cause and on not 1, but several bounties 100 stammed me 9 hits leaving my bounties up..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can you all call this a exploitation of the game when its right there within the game rules to do...?

and supported by HCS

#18 abhorrence

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:47

Levy I have a great deal of respect for you and your ability and commitment to GvGing. That being said:

It does not take much to sit and study the mechanics of the game, and though my skills are NOT the reason I win GvGs, its part of a comfort I deserve to have. Was it not fair enough to restrict me from the reserve stamina? or restrict me from the benefit from relic upgrades? End of content was a drag, and not fun at all. relics back then were nothing, not even worth taking, there was no incentive to being at the end of content PvPing people.


Your skills certainly don't hurt you winning GvG's and I disagree that you deserve them when you lowered your level.

No it wasn't "fair enough". You shouldn't, nor should anyone, have access to skills they normally wouldn't be able to cast.

The complaints you see, are from people who have not yet reached end of content and sought out ways to improve themselves, they are complaining because of the system that is in place does not benefit them.


Actually you were the one not happy, hence you deleveled yourself.

If you remember correctly, I deleveled down to level 120s WAY BEFORE THIS PRESTIGE AND RP REWARDS... I was not exploiting anything, I wanted to simply have fun doing what I love, and thats guild conflicts../quote]

To the nay Sayers, you think I cant go to any one of my friends and get the very same buffs I possess?


Good, then you have no problem. You can get buffs any time you like from friends, and you are doing GvG for fun. Perfect. Then you have no need for the skills you shouldn't be able to cast anyways.

This isn't just about you Levy, it's about everyone. Increasingly more and more people are purposely trying to delevel themselves so they can be lower level and use over powered buffs. Skills are level based and should be available to people that are the appropriate level to cast them.

#19 Mister Doom

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:49

See, its amazing that there is an upgrade to buy LEVEL UP points reset, that increases EVERY TIME you use it.. Players are complaining about those who deleveled, but fail to realize that HCS made it so we could, by charging us a non-fixed amount of fsp to do it.. My current level up points reset would cost me 275 fsp.. How is that fair they gave us the right to do as we did, charging us to do it, then telling us, "opps, we made a mistake.. "

its not a flaw, the level up points reset is there for all players to use.

I was on the BB and asking for help while I was being deleveled.. and was helped by HCS in the process.

10:15 18/Sep/2009 Anakiro has placed a bounty on your head to avenge your attack on them! Any player which accepts this bounty will be able to attack you (regardless of level) and you will suffer 2x experience loss from anyone undertaking the bounty, until the bounty is completed. Note also that anyone attacking you for the bounty reward will be available for you to place a bounty on them!

http://i32.tinypic.com/2qlxqw8.jpg



Anakiro made it very clear she would support me in my cause and on not 1, but several bounties 100 stammed me 9 hits leaving my bounties up..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can you all call this a exploitation of the game when its right there within the game rules to do...?

and supported by HCS


Levy, the level up point reset is there to help people who made mistakes in the stat they allocated their points into, the trick whereby you use the reset to alter your VL is simply an oversight by HCS, I think you know this... The VL is there to protect players from being attacked by higher level players, why? Because their higher level stats.gear and buffs make for an unfair advantage against a lower level player. HCS made a mistake, one which they have stated they are considering fixing, you got a good run from your advantage, but the game needs balance. This helps restore it in yer 'another' aspect of the game where mistakes have caused certain players to have unfair advantages..

#20 abhorrence

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 18:50

Deleveling was meant to be a punishment not a tool that people use to unbalance the game, and HCS has given at least 2 free skill resets.


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